The woke crowd are deluded about D&D, but some hardcore grognards have delusions of their own; and not being able to see reality makes you less useful.
#dnd #ttrpg #osr

All hail Meatball!!

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 03, 2024, 12:14:36 AM
All hail Meatball!!

Spread the Meatball, share the video! I especially love that the thumbnail for the video caught her licking her nose.

In the vast majority of my campaigns. orcs are very racist. They tend to attack elves & dwarves just because they are elves & dwarves! Can you believe that? 

As far as the 1E vs 5E slap fight goes, I honestly don't see the point. I don't choose what to play based on sales or popularity. As Wayne Campbell said " Led Zepplin didn't make songs everybody liked. They left that to the Bee Gees". I still play OD&D, B/X, AD&D, 5E or whatever else seems like fun. The only relevant factor when deciding what to play is-does it sound like it will be fun & enjoyable? If the answer is yes then lets play!

Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 03, 2024, 10:31:45 AMThey left that to the Bee Gees".

There's a backhanded compliment.

The difference is that once the astroturfed rebellion against Disco died down, which had caused a lot of people to hate on the Bee Gee's because that was immensely popular, Bee Gee's songs hold up really well and are still enjoyed. I don't see 5e getting a lot of play in decades to come, except from nostalgia.

Quote from: Grognard GM on March 03, 2024, 10:51:28 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 03, 2024, 10:31:45 AMThey left that to the Bee Gees".

There's a backhanded compliment.

The difference is that once the astroturfed rebellion against Disco died down, which had caused a lot of people to hate on the Bee Gee's because that was immensely popular, Bee Gee's songs hold up really well and are still enjoyed. I don't see 5e getting a lot of play in decades to come, except from nostalgia.

Oh I don't hate the Bee Gees. I still listen to them even though they are not considered 'cool' anymore.

LOL @ Bee Gees to 5th edition comparison...Bee Gees are literally one of the greatest bands ever, they just got hated on because it was cool to hate disco. That's it. Then they just started writing songs for everyone else that became insanely popular. LZ is the best rock 'n roll band of all time, but they stole most of their stuff from poor blues men, just like TSR and Arneson!

To address the original point, you're dealing with people who hate old white men, but like the structure they created because it allows them to act out their furry fantasies. And the grognards are "misremembering" a lot of things because they cannot admit ANY sort of improvements have been made in RPGs. I think the ascending AC thing is a prime example of that. Yeah, I like descending with a table, whatever, but when I am drunk and just want to play, Castles and Crusades has a brain-dead easy combat system that can be run by a retarded monkey. Now, the table is BETTER for certain wargames situations, for sure. But not for RPGs as are legitimately played, to be honest.

There needs to be a lot more Rodney King instead of Don King at this point.

You can never have enough Don King. He's the most splendifferous man that's ever been invented.

Quote from: Grognard GM on March 03, 2024, 10:51:28 AM
I don't see 5e getting a lot of play in decades to come, except from nostalgia.

I agree with Pundit that 5e is a very good system which originally had very broad appeal. I think it will be played nostalgically manyybe  years from now. Maybe not as much as 1e (but close), but more than 2e.

Just to point out, I was the one that brought up the 1E PHB had 17 printings. I did not say 5E was trash or that everything after 1E was wrong and that the games rules should have remained entirely static. Those are strawman arguments. But its not JUST the Player's Handbook we're talking about. How many copies of The Radiant Citadel have been sold? Fizban's Treasury of Dragons? Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes? And I would point out that 1E continues selling to this day. If we're comparing apples to apples, then pdfs of Oriental Adventures, Greyhawk Adventures and other 1E books count just as much.

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 03, 2024, 03:52:38 PM
Just to point out, I was the one that brought up the 1E PHB had 17 printings. I did not say 5E was trash or that everything after 1E was wrong and that the games rules should have remained entirely static. Those are strawman arguments. But its not JUST the Player's Handbook we're talking about. How many copies of The Radiant Citadel have been sold? Fizban's Treasury of Dragons? Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes? And I would point out that 1E continues selling to this day. If we're comparing apples to apples, then pdfs of Oriental Adventures, Greyhawk Adventures and other 1E books count just as much.

Every edition (except 4th) had good and bad supplements. The main difference with 5e is that over the last couple of years it's had nothing but awful supplements, not because of the system, but because of the Woke trash who took over WotC.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 03, 2024, 07:55:10 PMEvery edition (except 4th) had good and bad supplements. The main difference with 5e is that over the last couple of years it's had nothing but awful supplements, not because of the system, but because of the Woke trash who took over WotC.

Sadly too true. And yes, every campaign of 5E I played in lasted maybe 6 maybe 7 sessions with 1 exception which lasted close to a year. But that sole exception was it, out of roughly 8 campaigns I played. One of the few real flaws of 5E is that they removed the incentive for adventuring: treasure. There is no hook for players because its not Heroic Fantasy ala Lord of the Rings. Why would anyone risk their neck for little to no reward?

On the other hand, what I've found is that when 1gp=1xp, you end up having characters having tens of thousands of gold pieces, vastly more than anything they need to buy on the equipment list, after relatively short time.

In my game, Lion & Dragon, xp is not tied to either combat or treasure, and yet there's good amounts of both being pursued by the players in every campaign I've run.

I have a strong suspicion that some portion of the 1E sales, past and present, has to do with books falling apart. There was a lot more wear and tear on TSR era books because you didn't have people looking up rules on some kind of digital database. Another slice of sales is replacement of books that were lost or misplaced. We're not comparing apples to apples.

Sales are sales, but a guy replacing his D&D books that he threw out when he moved to Dallas 20 years ago isn't the same as a 5E player seeing the light and switching 1E because it's the best edition ever.

Quote from: Corolinth on March 04, 2024, 07:26:35 AM
Sales are sales, but a guy replacing his D&D books that he threw out when he moved to Dallas 20 years ago isn't the same as a 5E player seeing the light and switching 1E because it's the best edition ever.

OK, but as you say "sales are sales".

If the Brave New World we live in dispenses with the need to ever replace a worn out book, then the business model had better keep up.

You have to sell something to make a profit. If 5e isn't selling "replacement books" like 1e, then it's on 5e to be the better edition in order to maintain sales.