Question for those who have tooled around with 5e or have simply been watching it develop: do you think it could be readily adapted for scifi play?
To be more specific, are its skill system, item systems, mount/vehicle system (if any) and ranged combat rules scalable to a modern or future level?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720053Question for those who have tooled around with 5e or have simply been watching it develop: do you think it could be readily adapted for scifi play?
To be more specific, are its skill system, item systems, mount/vehicle system (if any) and ranged combat rules scalable to a modern or future level?
I suppose it could be adapted, but the impression I've gotten reading the playtests is that they're aiming for a D&D system, not a generic system per se.
Of course, we're a ways away from getting the finished system, so a lot could still change between now and release.
3E was designed with fantasy in mind, but the whole d20 product line expanded into modern and future. C&C was designed with fantasy in mind, but the whole SIEGE product line expanded into modern (Amazing Adventures) and future (StarSiege). RQ was designed with fantasy in mind (RQ, Stormbringer), but he whole BRP product line expanded into modern (CoC) and future. OD&D was designed with fantasy in mind, but I've run modern and future (Star Wars, Dune) games with it.
Most games can be moved into different eras without much trouble. It just comes down to how much work you want to put into it. You'd have to put together a list of modern or future weapons, monsters, skills, and the like.
5E is designed to take elements from previous editions of D&D and blend them together. I think that some companies will jump in and do the work for you if you give them some time.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720053Question for those who have tooled around with 5e or have simply been watching it develop: do you think it could be readily adapted for scifi play?
To be more specific, are its skill system, item systems, mount/vehicle system (if any) and ranged combat rules scalable to a modern or future level?
See Star without Numbers (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/86467/Stars-Without-Number-Free-Edition) vs Classic D&D. In short yes it is if you put the work into like Kevin Crawford. There are several other OSR RPGs like Spacemen and Starships, Mutant Future, etc that serve as examples and show how a D&D game like 5e can be adapted to other genres.
Quote from: finarvyn;720062... but the whole d20 product line expanded into modern and future.
There seems to be a fair amount of online debate as to whether that actually worked however. I haven't used or played in d20 Modern or Future, so I don't know.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720099There seems to be a fair amount of online debate as to whether that actually worked however. I haven't used or played in d20 Modern or Future, so I don't know.
Give
Hulks & Horrors and
Stars Without Number a try if you want D&D in spaaaaaaace.
I always thought d20 Modern was pretty good, although there were a few rules I would have changed, like firearms and unarmed combat. Also vehicle rules could have been fixed. Pretty important for a modern game. They were going in the right direction with generic classes. Too bad there was never a 2nd edition.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720053Question for those who have tooled around with 5e or have simply been watching it develop: do you think it could be readily adapted for scifi play?
To be more specific, are its skill system, item systems, mount/vehicle system (if any) and ranged combat rules scalable to a modern or future level?
Why should it not be? Swords become vibroswords or lightsabers, crossbows become blasters, horses become hoverbikes.
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;720156Why should it not be? Swords become vibroswords or lightsabers, crossbows become blasters, horses become hoverbikes.
Different genres really require different games to reflect those defining differences.
Quote from: Endless Flight;720152I always thought d20 Modern was pretty good, although there were a few rules I would have changed, like firearms and unarmed combat. Also vehicle rules could have been fixed.
Could you elaborate? What did you notice in actual play?
Quote from: Endless Flight;720152Too bad there was never a 2nd edition.
God I find myself saying that a lot. Ask me about my complete page-by-page transcription and fine tuning of
7th Sea.
Sure, why not? There was Buck Rogers that was pretty close to being AD&D in space.
Probably yes, but for a very specific value of adaptable, I suspect.
I more or less rewrote Basic/Expert to SF.
My query on whether 5e is similarly suitable is just in how much power cruft has to be replaced.
B/X adapted well into H&H because characters in old-school editions don't really have a lot of whizbang powers other than spell-casters, who could be replaced with psi/force and sonic-screwdriver type tricks.
It gets harder when you're dealing with something like late 3.x/4e, where you have characters with laundry lists of special powers, unless you've set up your SF conceit in a way that explicitly justifies them.
A space pilot doesn't really need to be anything other than good at flying shit though, so for a simple broad-strokes approach to the SF world, an edition with far simpler classes is probably more suited.
I am still not personally all that clear on which of those two options 5e is actually going to be, in print.
Quote from: J Arcane;720275I am still not personally all that clear on which of those two options 5e is actually going to be, in print.
Both thanks to the basic/advanced split, is my understanding. (For instance, there's a Feats system but you can completely dispense with it in favour of giving PCs a flat bonus when they level up.)
I did read and was quite excited about trying 4E reskinned as a giant robot skirmish game. Too much work to be bothered with TBH.
BUT, it can be done in theory.
Quote from: Warthur;720456Both thanks to the basic/advanced split, is my understanding. (For instance, there's a Feats system but you can completely dispense with it in favour of giving PCs a flat bonus when they level up.)
Offtopic time again.... What is the thinking behind the stat increase and/or feats? I don't grokk. Point me toward a discussion to save this thread!
Back on topic now. Continue as you were.
Quote from: J Arcane;720275I more or less rewrote Basic/Expert to SF.
I've got to ask, what's your opinion of
Stars Without Number? :D Since both you and Kevin Crawford post here is there a thread where you discuss your similar projects?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;720470I've got to ask, what's your opinion of Stars Without Number? :D Since both you and Kevin Crawford post here is there a thread where you discuss your similar projects?
Hell, I think we've even talked about it with each other once or twice.
H&H and SWN take very different approaches to making an SF D&D.
My goal with H&H was to ensure not just the rules, but the playstyle of D&D was preserved, rather than simply using the D&D rules to make an SF game.
So H&H is still all about romping through dungeons, killing scary monsters, and taking their high-tech stuff, while also being about exploring unknown space and occasionally, big spaceships blowing the shit out of each other. No attempt at 'realism' or fitting in with 'proper SF' was made, and the game is as much a mish-mash of SF cliches as D&D is of fantasy ones.
SWN is a much more serious take on things, and to me read more like imagining a Traveller that was built directly on OD&D rules. Which is fine, and good, but I wanted to loot dungeons for their +1 laser pistols, so I wrote that game instead.
There will likely be a new Gamma World based on Next. The two mesh together so well.
Buck Rogers 25th Century used the 2nd ed AD&D format.
XXVx (Buck Rogers) is still my favorite version of D&D.
I would suspect it will be, but not to the same extent that 3e/D20 was.
RPGPundit
Quote from: BarefootGaijin;720460Offtopic time again.... What is the thinking behind the stat increase and/or feats? I don't grokk. Point me toward a discussion to save this thread!
Back on topic now. Continue as you were.
Not everybody likes using feats when they play. Having a feat substitute (ability score increase) keeps the pro-feat campaign at a similar power level to the anti-feat campaign when designing adventures and whatnot.
I can only hope for a rebooted Star Frontiers.
Quote from: Spinachcat;721662I can only hope for a rebooted Star Frontiers.
Ding, ding we have a winner! That would be too cool for school
More on topic. It would seem that 5E has a great leaning toward Older school D&D. If so being that older school D&D is adaptable to Sci FI, I would think 5E would be as well.
Quote from: Spinachcat;721662I can only hope for a rebooted Star Frontiers.
I need it, like, now. Darn it Paizo, get cracking on that
Pathfinder Modern/Future I
know you've been thinking about.
I'm not sure how one would invent an FRP game that was NOT adaptable to scifi. What would that possibly mean? More to the point, what does the OP mean?
Quote from: Phillip;721942I'm not sure how one would invent an FRP game that was NOT adaptable to scifi. What would that possibly mean? More to the point, what does the OP mean?
Clarke's Third Law works so well in that situation.
For me it depends more on the feel of the system as to if I'd want to use it for sci fi. Since other than reading it some, I haven't done anything with 5e, I couldn't fathom a guess at it.
Got rules for shooting stuff? Of course! So, make up something that doesn't bounce off a Bolo.
Got rules for moving? Of course! So, translate your Bolo's cross-country speed to whatever scale is appropriate.
Got attributes, and/or occupations, skills, etc.? Of course! If you want something that's not already covered, just follow the model.
Metamorphosis Alpha was based on OD&D, Buck Rogers XXVc on 2E AD&D.
Obviously, if you want a package of rockets & rayguns then there are better bets than a sword & sorcery product. But there are tons of game adaptations of both, and if you know your basic way around System X and System Y then it's not exactly rocket science to borrow the ideas from one for the other.
For that matter, once you've got a grip on the essentials of any rules set, it shouldn't be a big deal to whip up a game version of whatever caught your eye in a book or TV show.
Quote from: Spinachcat;721662I can only hope for a rebooted Star Frontiers.
Count me in on this. Not a huge fan of what I saw so far in 5e playtest, but oddly, much as I didn't like it for DnD, it would be fine for Star Frontiers.
Quote from: Phillip;721942I'm not sure how one would invent an FRP game that was NOT adaptable to scifi. What would that possibly mean? More to the point, what does the OP mean?
Well, for instance, some are of the opinion that fantasy systems built to handle a world where melee combat is more common are rather awkward when ported to simulate a world where ranged combat is the crucial element. I haven't stress-tested this myself, so I don't know. Did
d20 Modern drop the ball in that regard?
Quote from: Spinachcat;721662I can only hope for a rebooted Star Frontiers.
Free Dralasites!
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;721953Well, for instance, some are of the opinion that fantasy systems built to handle a world where melee combat is more common are rather awkward when ported to simulate a world where ranged combat is the crucial element. I haven't stress-tested this myself, so I don't know. Did d20 Modern drop the ball in that regard?
Are you OK with a higher level character charging a .50 cal machinegun because of having enough hit points to shrug off a hit?
Quote from: Old One Eye;722229Are you OK with a higher level character charging a .50 cal machinegun because of having enough hit points to shrug off a hit?
To be fair, the rules for massive damage were put in place to alleviate this some. I made it 15+(damage in excess of CON) to avoid being dropped on the first shot and 10+ on the second wound and after.
Quote from: Endless Flight;720152I always thought d20 Modern was pretty good, although there were a few rules I would have changed, like firearms and unarmed combat. Also vehicle rules could have been fixed. Pretty important for a modern game. They were going in the right direction with generic classes. Too bad there was never a 2nd edition.
Gnoll Pimpin' ain't easy.
JG