So I've been trying to resist the siren call of Wilderlands of High Fantasy, but I just can't do it.  I need to pick this product up, and I plan on running a campaign with it just as soon as my Wednesday night Rifts game runs its course or switches nights.  Thing is, I've got standard d20 burnout at the moment, and want to try another system for this campaign.  Here's my system criteria:

1)  Quick resolution.  I love my Rolemaster, but don't want any charts for this puppy.
2)  Allow for customized, detailed characters.
3)  Fairly simple character generation, but detailed enough that characters can pick from a skills list and classes/professions to help speed things along.
4)  Be fairly easy to handle ballpark conversions from d20 to this system.

Thoughts?  I was thinking Burning Wheel without the clunky combat system and Duel of Wits, but that might be a little too low-to-mid fantasy.  I don't have a lot of experience with d6/d6 fantasy, which was another consideration.  For various reasons, SavWo, Risus, Wushu, HARP, and RQ are out--thank you, though.

Would welcome your thoughts.

I guess Midnight and True20 are not viable options this time, right? What about Warhammer?

Quote from: JongWKI guess Midnight and True20 are not viable options this time, right? What about Warhammer?

Hmm...mebbe True 20....Warhammer, I've not played yet.  How much of a buy-in are we talking (because I can't afford much).

Quote from: Zachary The First1)  Quick resolution.  I love my Rolemaster, but don't want any charts for this puppy.
2)  Allow for customized, detailed characters.
3)  Fairly simple character generation, but detailed enough that characters can pick from a skills list and classes/professions to help speed things along.
4)  Be fairly easy to handle ballpark conversions from d20 to this system.

Savage Worlds would fit most things except a profession list. The next step up -- and with the benefit of some pretty D&D archetypes and straightforward conversion, albeit with some setting baggage -- would be Omni System as presented in Atlantis: The Lost World.

Of course, the C&C fans will pimp it, but it fails point 3b pretty hard.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstHmm...mebbe True 20....Warhammer, I've not played yet.  How much of a buy-in are we talking (because I can't afford much).

True20--one hardbound. There's a bestiary as well that has more fantasy stuff that might be conducive.

Not my favorite, personally, but you might give it a look.

On other boards, I've also had plugs for Castles and Crusades and that Basic Fantasy pdf.  Thoughts?

Quote from: Caesar SlaadTrue20--one hardbound. There's a bestiary as well that has more fantasy stuff that might be conducive.

Not my favorite, personally, but you might give it a look.

Whoops--sorry.  Meant buy-in for Warhammer.  I have True20.

Say, this thread looks familiar ...

Quote from: Zachary The FirstOn other boards, I've also had plugs for Castles and Crusades and that Basic Fantasy pdf.  Thoughts?

I'd recommend C&C over BFRG, simply because C&C gives you more options, in particular, more character classes and the system of 'primes'.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad... Of course, the C&C fans will pimp it, but it fails point 3b pretty hard.

Perhaps, but the system of 'primes' does allow for some customization.  Obviously not as much as, say, D&D 3e or True20, but certainly moreso than BFRP or most earlier versions of D&D.

Essentially, C&C uses ability scores to cover skills.  So a character with a high Intelligence will be good at most 'intelligence-related' actions, and so forth.  A 'prime' gives PCs an effective +6 to most rolls (excluding combat and saving throws) with a particular ability score.  So a character who chooses Intelligence as her 'prime' will be well-educated in addition to being innately smart, thus justifying the +6 bonus.

Some classes require a particular ability score to be one prime (e.g. fighters must choose strength, wizards, intelligence, etc.).  However, PCs can choose another ability score to be a prime.  Humans get to choose two ability scores as additional primes (this is to 'balance' the fact that they don't get 'special racial abilities').

So a human fighter with Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution as his 'primes' will be somewhat different from a human fighter with Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma.

It might not give you as much 'customization' as you want, but it does allow players to distinguish their characters a fair bit.

Quote from: AkrasiaSay, this thread looks familiar ...



I'd recommend C&C over BFRG, simply because C&C gives you more options, in particular, more character classes and the system of 'primes'.



Perhaps, but the system of 'primes' does allow for some customization.  Obviously not as much as, say, D&D 3e or True20, but certainly moreso than BFRP or most earlier versions of D&D.

Essentially, C&C uses ability scores to cover skills.  So a character with a high Intelligence will be good at most 'intelligence-related' actions, and so forth.  A 'prime' gives PCs an effective +6 to most rolls (excluding combat and saving throws) with a particular ability score.  So a character who chooses Intelligence as her 'prime' will be well-educated in addition to being innately smart, thus justifying the +6 bonus.

Some classes require a particular ability score to be one prime (e.g. fighters must choose strength, wizards, intelligence, etc.).  However, PCs can choose another ability score to be a prime.  Humans get to choose two ability scores as additional primes (this is to 'balance' the fact that they don't get 'special racial abilities').

So a human fighter with Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution as his 'primes' will be somewhat different from a human fighter with Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma.

It might not give you as much 'customization' as you want, but it does allow players to distinguish their characters a fair bit.

I don't know if that's exactly what I was looking for, but it does sound interesting and worth a trial.

If I could, in C&C, how many different classes/professions/templates/whatever are there?

Quote from: Zachary The First... If I could, in C&C, how many different classes/professions/templates/whatever are there?

Races: dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, half-elf, half-orc, human.

Classes (with primes): Fighter (str), Ranger (str), Rogue (dex), Assassin (dex), Barbarian (con), Monk (con), Wizard (int), Illusionist (int), Cleric (wis), Druid (wis), Bard (cha), Knight (cha), Paladin (cha).

Lots of additional (free) stuff here:

http://www.grey-elf.com/candc/
http://www.cncplayer.net/
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~dp58/cnc.htm

I think Iron Heroes has the sword bit of the wilderlands sword & sorcery setting down nicely. Shame the magic system is shite. But it's d20 with the onus on warriors and skills rather than equipment & magic items. Piece of piss to bring in monsters etc from other d20 sytems/settings.

I was thinking of starting a PbP game in the wilderlands using Iron Heroes, but i'd have to think about the magic a bit.

Oh yeah, I have a review of the C&C PHB here:
RPGnet review: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/11/11008.phtml

:wizard:

Quote from: One Horse TownI think Iron Heroes has the sword bit of the wilderlands sword & sorcery setting down nicely. Shame the magic system is shite. But it's d20 with the onus on warriors and skills rather than equipment & magic items. Piece of piss to bring in monsters etc from other d20 sytems/settings.

I was thinking of starting a PbP game in the wilderlands using Iron Heroes, but i'd have to think about the magic a bit.

Yeah, Iron Heroes is a great combat system, but the magic system just wasn't designed for high fantasy. :mad:

Akrasia, I'll check out that review--I notice there is a 1st & 2nd printing.  Is the 1st C&C printing too bad?

D6.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstSo I've been trying to resist the siren call of Wilderlands of High Fantasy, but I just can't do it.  I need to pick this product up, and I plan on running a campaign with it just as soon as my Wednesday night Rifts game runs its course or switches nights.  Thing is, I've got standard d20 burnout at the moment, and want to try another system for this campaign.  Here's my system criteria:

1)  Quick resolution.  I love my Rolemaster, but don't want any charts for this puppy.
2)  Allow for customized, detailed characters.
3)  Fairly simple character generation, but detailed enough that characters can pick from a skills list and classes/professions to help speed things along.
4)  Be fairly easy to handle ballpark conversions from d20 to this system.

Thoughts?  I was thinking Burning Wheel without the clunky combat system and Duel of Wits, but that might be a little too low-to-mid fantasy.  I don't have a lot of experience with d6/d6 fantasy, which was another consideration.  For various reasons, SavWo, Risus, Wushu, HARP, and RQ are out--thank you, though.

Would welcome your thoughts.

I'm curious why Savage Worlds is out? Because it's got a lot of things going for you. Light and frothy plus list of skills to detail the characters. A hoot to play. It does lack some character longevity of play due to the relatively broad nature of some of the skills, but it should be more than fine to get through a module or 3.

As for BW, if you don't want the nitty-gritty of detailed combat then always using Simple combat and simple Skill rolls for for social is entirely valid way to play the game.  I assume by "high fantasy" you instead mean "high magic", because BW's default setting is the prototypical high fantasy of Toilken. On the other hand yes it tends to a lower magic level for humans, although you can lower Faith obstacles a bit and ease up on the tax some to let sorcerers rip. If you are doing D&D definately pick up the Spirit Binding PDF off the wiki for Druids. It's an advanced release of a chapter from the upcoming Magic Burner, which'll have a lot more rules and guidelines for customing the magic feel for you setting. It'll likely also have proper Enchanting for humans (Elves and Dwarves have that now) instead of just winging shit like you'd have to do now.

Conversion of a module from d20/AD&D to either of those to is pretty straightforward. You just read the descriptions and the maps and away you go. (EDIT:  Well monsters might be a bit tricky in Savage World. I don't have much experience there, would have to think about that a bit.) I know there are a number of people running classic "old school" TSR modules and such with BW. Don't start with the Giants series though. By-in-large BW Giants only chew bubblegum and kick PC ass, bubblegum isn't standard equipment for them. :hitrock: