TheRPGSite

So, the conflation of two events, the recent local hub-bub over the Wilderlands, and my now failed attempt at ordering a copy of the old World Builder's Guidebook for 2e, had put me in a mood to actually give a try to trying to run an old-school "explore the big wilderness hexmap" sort of game.

My original intention was that upon recieving my book, I'd go about building one of my own, bit by bit, with the rules and tables in the WBG.  But then the damn thing never arrived, so for some reason I started thinking about maybe jsut getting a prebuilt setting.

Now, generally, I HATE prebuilt settings, because I just don't feel like it's "mine".  I'd rather play in something the GM built himself, and if I'm running, sometihng I built myself.  

But for some reason in this case, it occurs to me that really, something like the Wilderlands isn't that different from what I can see to something I'd get myself with those tables, except that I'm not the one who rolled the dice and interpreted the results.  Plus in all likelihood there's a lot more stuff there that wouldn't be the kind of thing that would occur from a table and whim generated world.

There were a few seeming oddities to me though, like there being no roads anywhere on the sample map on the Judge's Guild website, which seemed strange to me.

It also occured to me that there's probably other settings kinda like Wilderlands, but maybe not so large, which for me could be something of an advantage as I'm less likely to feel overwhelmed.  So suggestiosn or pointers to other hexmap type open settings would also be good.

A much smaller setting from Judges Guild, called Verbosh, does much the same thing.  But it is for OD&D/AD&D 1st edition and the map doesn't actually have a hexgrid.

Having just investigated this matter myself, I can't find any setting that copies the Wilderlands intriguing approach.

The WBG is available in pdf. I know some have an aversion to pdfs, but the WBG and its Dungeon Builders counterpart are just the kind of books that work well in pdf. You can get 'em at Paizo for $4 each.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonThe WBG is available in pdf. I know some have an aversion to pdfs, but the WBG and its Dungeon Builders counterpart are just the kind of books that work well in pdf. You can get 'em at Paizo for $4 each.

I don't like PDFs as it is, and a PDF that needs constant table references even less.

Quote from: J ArcaneI don't like PDFs as it is, and a PDF that needs constant table references even less.

Actually, you could just print out the exact pages you need. But, if you don't like 'em, you don't like 'em. I'm fortunate enough to have copies of both I bought new, and the pdfs make a nice addition, by extending the life of the books.

Download the Rorystone Road pdf from the Necromancer Games site. It's a great sample of the Wilderlands setting. And it has roads, towns, etc.

Dave Arneson's First Fantasy Campaign is the only other fantasy setting I know of which uses the same approach (and in a way, it is linked with the Wilderlands). The problem with that product is that it is essentially Dave's typed up notebook of campaign ideas, so it is not a thorough exploration, but rather a stream of consciousness collection of "stuff". Seriously, Gary Gygax seems organised in comparison!

In the realms of Science Fiction, Traveller used a very similar approach, both in the official setting, and various 3rd party products, some created by Gamelords I think, and some, again, by Judges Guild.

Outside these two, you are on your own - the idea of the Campaign Hexagon System died for some inexplicable reason. However, going by my experience, it is not altogether impossible to grab a blank hex sheet (Rob has made one, and so have I - find them here (http://www.judgesguild.com/fans.html). Also going by my experience, one or two regions give you enough opportunities for multiple campaigns - and then the players will have only seen a fraction of all possibilities. The main challenge is filling the maps with interesting, unique encounters. If there is an encounter in every 5th dryland hex*, a map is going to have 352. That's a whole lot, even if some are just general monster lairs and the number is reduced by the presence of seas where they are more sparse. I suggest only "seeding" the immediate area around the starting place and building gradually.


______________________
* My usual algorhytm is to roll 1d10 for each hex. If the result is 1, I place a ruin. If the result is 10, I place a monster lair. (Both categories are a bit arbitrary, and there is considerable overlap). If either is determined, I roll again for that hex to see if there is a second, third, etc. encounter in the same spot.

For seas, you need much less, and that's usually not explored much anyway. So I use 1d20 instead of 1d10, resulting in an average of 1 encounter for a group of 10 hexes. Instead, action will likely happen on islands.

Sometimes I re-check oft-travelled areas to provide more opportunities.

Quote from: MelanDave Arneson's First Fantasy Campaign is the only other fantasy setting I know of which uses the same approach (and in a way, it is linked with the Wilderlands). The problem with that product is that it is essentially Dave's typed up notebook of campaign ideas, so it is not a thorough exploration, but rather a stream of consciousness collection of "stuff". Seriously, Gary Gygax seems organised in comparison!

No freakin' kidding.  I downloaded Supplement II: Blackmoor off Arneson's site, and it's a complete mess.  ;)

QuoteIn the realms of Science Fiction, Traveller used a very similar approach, both in the official setting, and various 3rd party products, some created by Gamelords I think, and some, again, by Judges Guild.

I think the similarity to Traveller is actually part of what appeals to me about the approach, and why I wanted the World Builder's Guidebook in the first place.  I wanted a fantasy equivalent to LBB 3: Worlds and Adventures.  

Going with the Wilderlands instead is almost like a combination between a shortcut and an alternate approach.  There's a lot of work done there for you, but there's also a metric tonne of material there, and much of it deliberately vague to leave room for GM embellishment, the same sort of embellishment that takes place when you start interpreting the results of the Traveller UWP tables into something interesting.

QuoteOutside these two, you are on your own - the idea of the Campaign Hexagon System died for some inexplicable reason.

It is sort of wierd to me.  I'd always sort of got the impression that this was a pretty common way to paly in the old days, but I guess most people who played that way were running off their own and just didn't feel the need to publish.  

QuoteHowever, going by my experience, it is not altogether impossible to grab a blank hex sheet (Rob has made one, and so have I - find them here (http://www.judgesguild.com/fans.html). Also going by my experience, one or two regions give you enough opportunities for multiple campaigns - and then the players will have only seen a fraction of all possibilities. The main challenge is filling the maps with interesting, unique encounters. If there is an encounter in every 5th dryland hex*, a map is going to have 352. That's a whole lot, even if some are just general monster lairs and the number is reduced by the presence of seas where they are more sparse. I suggest only "seeding" the immediate area around the starting place and building gradually.

Certainly I could still just do the whole thing totally by ear, and I may still do that.  Just break out a few basic concepts, scribble out a map on some hex paper, and go from there.  And it's also not like I couldn't do some digging and get another copy of WBG, though likely not as cheap.  

The prepackaged route does hold certain appeal though, in having all that ready, and with me having a new job now, and thus less free time, just jumping into a massive pre-built sandbox could be a nice way to get straight into the game.

Quote from: MelanOutside these two, you are on your own - the idea of the Campaign Hexagon System died for some inexplicable reason.

I believe this product was something of a close relative to the Campaign Hexagon System:

(http://www.crydee.com/files/images2/gamesp/rpmp_hotsl.jpg)

Heart of the Sunken Lands: A Wilderness Campaign
Players can travel through Midkemia's Sunken Lands in this sourcebook. A novel aspect is the large, pull-out hex grid map of the region. The border areas are drawn-in, but the interior is left to the referee to populate.
1983 ... 62 pages ... Midkemia Press

(from here (http://www.waynesbooks.com/Midkemia.html))

Isle of Dread.

Quote from: SettembriniIsle of Dread.

Yes, Heart of the Sunken Lands was a dry-land version of the Isle of Dread.

Quote from: SettembriniIsle of Dread.

It has the hexes but it doesn't have the numbers... I wonder if Isle of Dread had used numbered hexes, how it would have affected roleplaying. I have run wilderness adventure with unnumbered hexes before I got introduced to the concept, and it didn't work all that well.

Dirk, I will have to check out that one - I've been hunting for a copy, but it doesn't come cheap and there was always something else. There is a copy on eBay right now, with ridiculous shipping costs. Good catch, though.

J Arcane, investing in a copy of Judges Guild's Ready Ref Sheets and probably Island Book is a good idea if you are going with a homebrew - these two have a lot of random tables for idea generation. The former comes dirt cheap on eBay and stores like NobleKnight, and the latter is affordable as well (if rarer).

QuoteDirk, I will have to check out that one - I've been hunting for a copy, but it doesn't come cheap and there was always something else. Good catch, though.

There's one on US eBay right now for dirt cheap.  Normally I'd keep it to myself and snatch it up, but I won't have the cash in time.  ;)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Heart-of-the-Sunken-Lands-Midkemia-Press-w-Map_W0QQitemZ150155312073QQihZ005QQcategoryZ44112QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mind, it'll cost like, $30 US to ship to your part of the world.

The Heart of the Sunken lands is a great little setting book. Fantastic feel, with lots of unique monsters, exotic communities, weird plants, etc., and tailor made for an exploratory campaign. Highly recommended.

I'm surprised there's been no online collaboration on a Big Ol' Hex Map: someone randomly generating one, then doling out hexes to interested parties to make up the whole.  Well, I'm sure there is somewhere, but I've not seen it.

There was a thread like that on this very board somewhere...I remember Dr. Rotwang had many cool additions and the beginnings of a map for it...

Off to search...

Quote from: MelanIt has the hexes but it doesn't have the numbers... I wonder if Isle of Dread had used numbered hexes, how it would have affected roleplaying. I have run wilderness adventure with unnumbered hexes before I got introduced to the concept, and it didn't work all that well.

At least two Dragonlance adventures had big wilderness hex crawls.
DL 3 Dragons of Hope (http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/dl/dl-dl3.htm) and DL7 Dragons of Light (http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/dl/dl-dl7.htm) had large hex maps with keyed encounters.
The difference to Wilderlands was that a) a smaller number of hexes containing keyed encounters (apart from key areas like buildings, bridges, or ruins large blocks of hexes were lumped together as an encouter area, if I remember correctly) and b) the whole hexcrawling had a story-driven goal, a specific hex/encounter that served as the finale of the adventure (finding the doors of Thorbardin and finding the hidden Foghaven Valley, respectively)

One of the later modules (probably DL13 Dragons of Truth (http://home.flash.net/~brenfrow/dl/dl-dl13.htm)) also had an overland travel that was a kind of hex crawl (an incredibly boring one, but then, the later DL adventures were only adventure outlines or sketches instead of fully realized modules).

Dirk's post reminded me that the 1e modules Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun also had hex crawl elements, though nowhere near the scope of what Wilderlands does.

Quote from: KenHRThere was a thread like that on this very board somewhere...I remember Dr. Rotwang had many cool additions and the beginnings of a map for it...

Off to search...

Here you go Ken! (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3129)

I still think the thread has merit, we should work on it more.

Quote from: HaffrungDownload the Rorystone Road pdf from the Necromancer Games site. It's a great sample of the Wilderlands setting. And it has roads, towns, etc.

You can also get the 'Lenap' region (map + encounters) for free at the Necro site.

Really, one could run a full campaign with either Rorystone or Lenap alone!

:wizard:

Quote from: JamesVHere you go Ken! (http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3129)

I still think the thread has merit, we should work on it more.

That's the one!  I couldn't find it and gave up after about 20 minutes.

Thanks!

And yes, we should...

Quote from: KenHRThere was a thread like that on this very board somewhere...I remember Dr. Rotwang had many cool additions and the beginnings of a map for it...

Off to search...

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a383/Rotwang/HbH01.gif)

I dunno where the text is anymore, though.  Several of us contributed; I think I bumped up against a mapping issue (I needed bigger hexes with smaller ones inside, for legibility -- shades of the Campaign Hex System), and we all...just...kind of...forgot about it.

JamesV linked the thread, so we have the text, too!

I think in light of all the Wilderlands discussion here lately, it'd be fun to resurrect the project.  Of course, I gotta finish making dinner for family tonight and will be at a friend's wedding all the way across the state tomorrow, but when I get back....

(And I was chilling at home taking a week off of work for stress...I hate real life sometimes...)

OK, but I need for my map to work first.  And that means Photoshop and that'll take time.

Anybody got some more links to a good numbered blank hex map?  I looked at the one Melan linked on the Judge's Guild page, but the lines and numbers are way too dark for me.  I was hoping for something in more of a faded grey, so as to not overshadow the actual map details.

How this for a contribution

(http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/beta/rotwangmap1sm.jpg)

A 300 dpi version is here note there are a lot of empty hexes


http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/beta/rotwangmap1.jpg

Enjoy
Rob Conley

Note: I put some woods around the beacon figured that  since it is abandoned it would be overgrown.

E

Hey, you got a blank version of that map?  That's like exactly what I'm looking for.

http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/beta/campaignmap.pdf

Quote from: estarHow this for a contribution
Enjoy
Rob Conley

Note: I put some woods around the beacon figured that  since it is abandoned it would be overgrown.

E

Rock on Rob! I have the original thread subscribed, I think I'll post something new to it today when I get back from work, or maybe soon if I get a brainstorm.