I have only backed a few RPG related kickstarters. They've all been very small press projects that would not be produced without support from backers. I've held off on a lot of larger projects that I saw as coming to market regardless of my support. I look at the cost of some of the books and don't see them worth spending on and then waiting. Keep in mind I only buy print products. From what I've seen the wait isn't worth the price and I'd rather wait for retail.
So why do you back? Is it about supporting projects and seeing them come to life or do you see a value or savings in backing?
Quote from: myleftnut;1084831I have only backed a few RPG related kickstarters. They've all been very small press projects that would not be produced without support from backers. I've held off on a lot of larger projects that I saw as coming to market regardless of my support. I look at the cost of some of the books and don't see them worth spending on and then waiting. Keep in mind I only buy print products. From what I've seen the wait isn't worth the price and I'd rather wait for retail.
So why do you back? Is it about supporting projects and seeing them come to life or do you see a value or savings in backing?
I back kickstarters that I hope are going to make cool products. Because kickstarters are going to take a while to make and are almost always late it is kind of like a suprise present to myself when a parcel turns up randomly.
The biggest problem for me at the moment is shipping costs. Monte Cook got me big time with my latest kickstarter so I try to take that into account when backing.
Quote from: myleftnut;1084831I have only backed a few RPG related kickstarters. They've all been very small press projects that would not be produced without support from backers. I've held off on a lot of larger projects that I saw as coming to market regardless of my support. I look at the cost of some of the books and don't see them worth spending on and then waiting. Keep in mind I only buy print products. From what I've seen the wait isn't worth the price and I'd rather wait for retail.
So why do you back? Is it about supporting projects and seeing them come to life or do you see a value or savings in backing?
Usually it's because I want some of the limited shit that comes in the Kickstarter and don't want to pay the eBay Tax.
If I'm interested, I find it best to do the Kickstarter and then just forget about the damned thing - there is no way my Gamer ADD is going to keep my attention focused on that project for six-eight-ten months plus the inevitable "ohhhh no, my health emergency! A hangnail! Next update in six months!" delay. When it finally arrives, I get excited about it again.
Damn near anything I back lately is OSR or OSR-adjacent - Midderlands, Ultraviolet Grasslands. Some boxed set I can't be assed to remember. And the next iteration of Necrotic Gnome's ruleset, because I love their stuff.
I back KickStarters for several reasons:
- It enables small companies to produce things without much financial risk
- I get PDF from companies that I wouldn't normally buy from or games I wouldn't normally look at
- It builds a RPG community, of sorts
It's a bit annoying when some of the extra levels haven't been written yet, but I'm a patient kind of chap.
I back projects I'm interested in and that I'll play actively. I agree with the advice to fire and forget: no use getting worked up over delays unless it's, y'know, Far West.
What I am tired with is serial Kickstarting for every new fucking product a company churns out, especially when they ain't delivered on a previous one. I think some companies just see kickstarter as their basic MO, rather than as a tool to be deployed strategically for something special. But YMMV.
Quote from: BrokenCounsel;1084944What I am tired with is serial Kickstarting for every new fucking product a company churns out, especially when they ain't delivered on a previous one. I think some companies just see kickstarter as their basic MO, rather than as a tool to be deployed strategically for something special. But YMMV.
Remember how small and marginal so much of this hobby is--even Pinnacle Entertainment counts as 'small press' on DTRPG. I think a lot of companies
need the guaranteed sales from Kickstarter, especially to go ahead with high production value projects.
I will be frank, I'm addicted to Kickstarter. There I wrote it. I flat out back just about every rpg I see.
I love the idea of kicking $10 to $20 to someone being creative and hustling. If it hits and delivers a product, cool, but there are lots of times I completely forget I backed something. I usually only back at the pdf level because I don't want/need more paper. Kickstarter is my vicarious, voyeuristic participation in the creative process.
And of all the projects. Have backed only one has not delivered. Yeah looking at Wil Hindmarch.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/massifpress/lancer
Any one interested in this? I'm thinking of backing this.
In many cases it is because the product only exists on KS, Or because that is the ONLY way to get everything for the game.
And it is that second part that is why I back so few KS and will not buy one off the shelf if I know that there were "exclusives" that can now likely never be had. This is also why I tend to avoid any regular game that has exclusives and promos that can never be bought if you missed it.
But in general backing a KS may be the only way to get a game.
Quote from: Ted;1084949I will be frank, I'm addicted to Kickstarter. There I wrote it. I flat out back just about every rpg I see.
I am too. I don't back EVERY game, but I back probably more than I should. I also have started backing ones I'm on the fence about at the $1 mark, which is enough to keep me in the loop on updates, and if I end up wanting the game, I can boost the pledge later.
Quote from: myleftnut;1084965https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/massifpress/lancer
Any one interested in this? I'm thinking of backing this.
I did, I'm a sucker for mecha games, especially ones where you can build your own.
That is a serious pro tip Remial, I like it. Yeah I don't back EVERY game, but let's just say I spent my annual KS budget before the end of March. Mistakes were made. But seriously, if it's RPG in pdf format for $15 or under it's an automatic buy with no questions asked.
Quote from: Ted;1085173That is a serious pro tip Remial, I like it. Yeah I don't back EVERY game, but let's just say I spent my annual KS budget before the end of March. Mistakes were made. But seriously, if it's RPG in pdf format for $15 or under it's an automatic buy with no questions asked.
I kind of do the opposite. I bought a bunch of RPG stuff while doing research for our homebrew, so I have a lot of stuff. And very little is going to be better than BFRPG's free modules--you can play just those for years.
I usually back RPGs that have something physical that I want, like the Dungeons & Doggies and Cats & Catacombs minis sets--mostly, card-based games and the occasional minis-based games (that aren't $200USD+ for everything).
At this point, I'm mostly on Kickstarter for: Steve Jackson Games Ogre stuff, Baby Bestiary Calendar, and Life of the Party.
I support projects that excite me.
But most of my RPG support on KS is for toss away money (aka, buy a tasty pizza or buy a RPG thingie), and I've rarely been disappointed. I recently got the Phantasmagoria zine and I'm a happy camper. Quality work, highly creative ideas, lots to steal for my other RPGs.
I rarely "go big" except with CMON's board games because the ROI is crazy good. If I don't love my new Zombicide, I can flip it for x2 or x3 what I paid, and because its CMON, I know that it will deliver...eventually.
Well, I've never backed a kickstarter, mostly because I tend to get games as review items. However, the conditions under which I would back a KS would be:
-if it was a product that was hugely interesting to me
-and if I was absolutely certain that the creator was likely to actually have the content actually manifest; ideally if I could contact them personally and be sure they'd already actually written the product beforehand.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1085940Well, I've never backed a kickstarter, mostly because I tend to get games as review items. However, the conditions under which I would back a KS would be:
-if it was a product that was hugely interesting to me
-and if I was absolutely certain that the creator was likely to actually have the content actually manifest; ideally if I could contact them personally and be sure they'd already actually written the product beforehand.
The better Kickstarters have the rulebook already available for download as PDF. Generally, more professional formatting and art are included in the Kickstarter.
I'll have to admit that I've never backed a Kickstarter. I don't feel the need for a lot of new systems or gaming material, since I've got a pretty large collection already. Also, I don't have a lot of extra cash to spend on RPGs, so I tend to be pretty careful about how I do spend it. I usually wait until the product is out and has been reviewed before making up my mind. Since I'm not in a hurry to get things, I can wait until they've been out a few years and prices get low--I recently bought most of the Song of Ice and Fire line from Humble Bundle for a whopping $28.
I like to support projects that offer unique innovations to the industry (as rare as they are these days) because I'm interested in the hobby developing and growing to cover more ground, more ideas, and find more solutions to age old problems. Usually I find that an RPG Kickstarter will wax poetic for several paragraphs about their game without ever specifying how it actually works and at that point I move to the next project, if you can't explain what makes your game unique on the most fundamental level, the actual gameplay, then what you're selling shouldn't be an independent system and should instead be a sourcebook for whatever system you're ripping the rules out of (usually D&D.) Not that supplements are bad but its a personal gripe of mine that so many projects these days make games that don't need to be made for minor tweaks to a system that would've been better as an adventure book or campaign setting that had a few unique homebrew rules.
Quote from: myleftnut;1084965https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/massifpress/lancer
Any one interested in this? I'm thinking of backing this.
I've given this one my support even if I'm not a huge fan of the company it looks like it could be good.
I've backed a lot of RPG (and board game) Kickstarters. My algorithm is roughly:
- If it's an out-of-the-norm system I might learn something about mechanics or system design from reading, I back it
- If it's content for a system I know and like, I back it (i.e. not D&D 5e)
- If I recognize and like the creators and want them to keep doing stuff, I back it
- If there's a good chance I'd actually use the content in a game someday, I back it
I am fortunate enough to have a bit of safe discretionary money right now so I view Kickstarter as a way to be a teeny weeny angel investor of sorts in cool RPG things to keep the field full of interesting and different ideas and systems. It might be so much screaming into the void but voting with my wallet is what I got, you know?
I also make sure to set my expectations to zero so it's always delightful when something works out, but I make sure my decisions are calibrated on the expectation that it'll completely fizzle and ship nothing.
KS helps a lot of garage band efforts catch a break, stuff that would likely never see the light of day otherwise because of high up front costs. Obviously some fail because of ineptitude or deceit, but I've backed nearly 30 projects on KS and Indigogo and all have delivered except for two. I think if you're careful, you can avoid the stinkers pretty easily.
I can wait for print-on-demand. I've heard of some elite shit shows that began as "highly anticipated" kickstarters.
If I don't give you my money, it can't be disappeared from me.
If I'm taking a risk sending money somewhere, it'll be with sources that have established reliability with me.
I very rarely back Kickstarters.
Actually the only Kickstarters I've backed are the Sine Nomine (maker of Stars without Number and various other RPGs).
That's because I know he delivers and I trust him.
I also like his work, so backing his work will make it more likely he will make more RPGs.
So yeah, generally pretty skeptical about KS in general. It seems a pretty big risk and I've read a lot of horror story type experiences people have had.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1086820So yeah, generally pretty skeptical about KS in general. It seems a pretty big risk and I've read a lot of horror story type experiences people have had.
That's why I don't back big projects. Robotech RPG Tactics ring a bell? I've met people who lost like $1k. I'd be completely ass blasted if I was them.
Quote from: myleftnut;1086838That's why I don't back big projects. Robotech RPG Tactics ring a bell? I've met people who lost like $1k. I'd be completely ass blasted if I was them.
Wow! That's crazy. Like I said, if you're *careful* you can avoid the stinkers. Throwing a G into some vast sprawling project seems insanely risky. I try to keep it low and to situations where I know the creator to be trustworthy.
Quote from: myleftnut;1086838That's why I don't back big projects. Robotech RPG Tactics ring a bell? I've met people who lost like $1k. I'd be completely ass blasted if I was them.
Oh yeah, 1k is a LOT of money to throw at a KS.
The Sine Nomine RPGs were relatively cheap, so even if it DID go wrong, it wouldn't have been a big loss.
I backed this.
http://www.gallantknightgames.com/gallant-knight-games-wunderwerks-statement-regarding-once-upon-a-time-in-jianghu/
SJWs strike again. When will this stop? Another dream appears to be crushed.
Quote from: myleftnut;1087051I backed this.
http://www.gallantknightgames.com/gallant-knight-games-wunderwerks-statement-regarding-once-upon-a-time-in-jianghu/
SJWs strike again. When will this stop? Another dream appears to be crushed.
Okay, so, um...
QuoteAdditionally, we've consulted with game industry experts with experience in investigations into harassment and abuse, gathering as much data, insight and feedback as we could so this matter can be handled in the best way possible.
The 'Game Industry' actually has an agency, or 'experts' who actively investigate transgressions of this nature? Like a police force? Or the FBI? Gee, who knew? I really hope it's a firm called Delofarno, Helton and Price - that's a group of experienced industry experts I could get behind. I'd hire them like a shot.
Hey - you think I could get into this gig? Is there like a training academy for Game Industry Harassment and Abuse Investigations? Would I get a badge? Would I get powers of arrest when I graduate? Can I carry a fucking gun?
I've googled 'game industry experts on abuse and harassment investigations' and my google-fu must be fucked, because I'm not finding any respectable academies, licensed private firms or even Gaming PI wannabes.
But fuck, am I glad that there are people out there who are experts in investigating this stuff. Keeping gaming safe for the rest of us.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1086820So yeah, generally pretty skeptical about KS in general. It seems a pretty big risk and I've read a lot of horror story type experiences people have had.
My general rule (after backing Star Citizen... *sigh*) is that I only back things which are either from someone with a proven KS record and/or a project which is already 80-90% or more (demonstrably) complete.
Many of them will still take longer than advertised. (Ex: Shinobigami is finally shipping out this summer - when it was due in December 2016 :P - but the creator had done several projects before, so I knew that it would get done eventually. And I only put $22 towards it anyway.)
Quote from: BrokenCounsel;1087254Hey - you think I could get into this gig?
I imagine getting in involves courses in espionage, counter-espionage, small arms tactics and hand to hand combat. Yes quite rigorous shit I can only dream of.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1087257My general rule (after backing Star Citizen... *sigh*)
Yeah bummer Re Star Citizen. So glad I didn't back that... I very nearly DID.
I really do feel for you and the many other people who got burned with that.
I don't really see the whole SC thing as a scam, more Chris Roberts overreaching, over promising and generally not getting a base game out there.
Now they have to keep generating money through empty promises, hoping to get a product out one day.
I think it'll end with them being bailed out again, like what happened with Freelancer and losing creative control.
That or the whole thing will collapse on itself eventually.
I backed Elite Dangerous and overall pretty happy with how it turned out.
I have that on PC and PS4 now.
I prefer playing ED on PS4, I love the PS4 controller. Shame there's no Crossplay.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1087420Yeah bummer Re Star Citizen. So glad I didn't back that... I very nearly DID.
Well - at least I didn't go crazy with buying a $300 starship or something wacky. I just got the basic game - which I think came with a small starship & insurance on it (or something odd). So - only out like $40-50 (it's been well over half a decade - so I don't remember for sure).
I really do think that it wasn't a scam - they just refuse to cut ANY corners (including extremely diminishing returns) and likely know little/nothing about how to produce. I still get periodic emails about all the progress they're making.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1087448Well - at least I didn't go crazy with buying a $300 starship or something wacky. I just got the basic game - which I think came with a small starship & insurance on it (or something odd). So - only out like $40-50 (it's been well over half a decade - so I don't remember for sure).
At least there's that. Some people have spent 1000s of $$ on SC. Eek! I can't imagine how they feel buying into a game that far.
losing $50 is annoying , but not that bad.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1087448I really do think that it wasn't a scam - they just refuse to cut ANY corners (including extremely diminishing returns) and likely know little/nothing about how to produce. I still get periodic emails about all the progress they're making.
I don't follow the whole SC politics and developments very closely at all. I watch an occasional Youtube video about it and it it comes up now and then in forums, so you may well be right.
To me it "Feels like" good intentions gone bad.
Do some people involved who are running and working on the SC thing perhaps see it as a scam now? possibly. I don't think it started out that way though.
I think right now, noone in development wants to look too closely at the situation, as facing it would mean realising how bad their situation really is. so maybe they're trying to delay the inevitable as long as possible or hoping for some sort of breakthrough.
The whole SC thing is getting a lot of attention atm though, so I wonder if it's gonna hit the fan soon.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1087518The whole SC thing is getting a lot of attention atm though, so I wonder if it's gonna hit the fan soon.
I don't play video games so I've never heard of this until now. I just read an article saying people spent and appear to have lost upwards of $24,000....WTF?
Quote from: danskmacabre;1086820Actually the only Kickstarters I've backed are the Sine Nomine (maker of Stars without Number and various other RPGs).
That's because I know he delivers and I trust him.
I also like his work, so backing his work will make it more likely he will make more RPGs.
100% Agree.
Kevin Crawford / Sine Nomine is especially trustworthy because his RPG stuff is done when he starts his Kickstarter. As a backer, you get the PDF access as soon as you pledge.
That takes out most of the risk. Backers can pledge the minimum, read the book, then decide if they want to pledge higher.
And now, he's got the reputation for delivering on time or early so that's a big bonus. He's talked about his KS philosophy in a thread here before and why he does not like stretch goals because that's where many creators get into trouble with over promising.
Quote from: myleftnut;1087604I don't play video games so I've never heard of this until now. I just read an article saying people spent and appear to have lost upwards of $24,000....WTF?
Yeah - I have no idea why someone would blow that kind of cash on ANY video game - much less one that isn't released yet. The only way I'd give any video game company that much money is if I got some stock shares in the company.
Quote from: myleftnut;1087604I don't play video games so I've never heard of this until now. I just read an article saying people spent and appear to have lost upwards of $24,000....WTF?
Yes, there's some crazy expensive packs you can buy for SC that allows special access, REALLY expensive ships and so on.
Yeah wow, you have to be REALLY dedicated to do something like that.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1087851Yes, there's some crazy expensive packs you can buy for SC that allows special access, REALLY expensive ships and so on.
Yeah wow, you have to be REALLY dedicated to do something like that.
Dedicated is not the word that comes to mind when I think about it.