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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: hamstertamer on June 26, 2013, 04:31:37 AM

Poll
Question: Which is more realistic?
Option 1: oman with a flower votes: 7
Option 2: oman riding a dragon votes: 20
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: hamstertamer on June 26, 2013, 04:31:37 AM
a) Woman with a flower

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FBEigRdbtLc/T_lGMEzFuII/AAAAAAAAANE/Vw9u7PS4p6I/w800-h800/womanwithaflower.jpg)

b) Woman riding a dragon

(http://www.artwallpaperhi.com/thumbnails/detail/20130331/women%20paintings%20castles%20dragons%20fantasy%20art%201920x1350%20wallpaper_www.artwallpaperhi.com_28.jpg)
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: JeremyR on June 26, 2013, 04:39:48 AM
I think that's a wyvern, not a dragon.

But that one could actually happen in this universe, someday. If we colonize a world with lower gravity, and if we can genetically engineer Iguanas so they are giant and have wings...
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: hamstertamer on June 26, 2013, 04:50:58 AM
Quote from: JeremyR;665704I think that's a wyvern, not a dragon.

But that one could actually happen in this universe, someday. If we colonize a world with lower gravity, and if we can genetically engineer Iguanas so they are giant and have wings...

I believe that the painting is called Dragon Warrior.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: jibbajibba on June 26, 2013, 05:13:53 AM
Quote from: hamstertamer;665707I believe that the painting is called Dragon Warrior.

Just cos the artist doesn't know a dragon from a wyvern doesn;t make it more realistic :)

The first is a drawing of a real subject done in a stylised technique.

The second is a drawing of an imaginary creature done in a realistic technique.

(Caveat: Of course the Girl with Flower could be just as imaginary as the Dragon/wyvern)

Of course in another sense both are real as both exist in the physical universe as real objects.
Then again from my perspective as an observer through a computer interface both are just light being emitted from a collection of pixels on a screen controlled by a microprocessor so either have any reality beyond the fact of my observation of them.
Then again from a Solipsistic perspective I am on the only real thing in the universe, which is primarily composed just of me and everything else is just my imagination run rampant.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: JeremyR on June 26, 2013, 05:19:52 AM
Quote from: jibbajibba;665710Just cos the artist doesn't know a dragon from a wyvern doesn;t make it more realistic :)

The first is a drawing of a real subject done in a stylised technique.

But how do you know it's a painting of a real subject? You can just as easily say that it's a stylized portrait of an Elder Thing from At the Mountains of Madness.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: hamstertamer on June 26, 2013, 05:20:54 AM
Quote from: jibbajibba;665710Just cos the artist doesn't know a dragon from a wyvern doesn;t make it more realistic :)

The first is a drawing of a real subject done in a stylised technique.

The second is a drawing of an imaginary creature done in a realistic technique.

(Caveat: Of course the Girl with Flower could be just as imaginary as the Dragon/wyvern)

Of course in another sense both are real as both exist in the physical universe as real objects.
Then again from my perspective as an observer through a computer interface both are just light being emitted from a collection of pixels on a screen controlled by a microprocessor so either have any reality beyond the fact of my observation of them.
Then again from a Solipsistic perspective I am on the only real thing in the universe, which is primarily composed just of me and everything else is just my imagination run rampant.

Considering the people posting on this forum I should have put a third option for the poll.  

3. I am the only thing real in this universe.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: jibbajibba on June 26, 2013, 05:25:49 AM
Quote from: JeremyR;665711But how do you know it's a painting of a real subject? You can just as easily say that it's a stylized portrait of an Elder Thing from At the Mountains of Madness.

As per the whole of my post  ....
(Caveat: Of course the Girl with Flower could be just as imaginary as the Dragon/wyvern)

As to your point .... unlikely that Piccasso was familar with the Mythos and as that picture was painted in 1932 it is I suspect unlikely Picasso had read At the Mountains of Madness which Lovecraft wrote in 1931 but wasn;t published until 1936 ....
Of course it is possible that Lovercraft, a great letter writter as we know, might have send a copy to the increasingly well known artist but chances are small.....
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: vytzka on June 26, 2013, 06:06:16 AM
The dragon, I guess? Not sure as to the point of the question.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Killfuck Soulshitter on June 26, 2013, 06:33:37 AM
Word games...
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: One Horse Town on June 26, 2013, 06:42:06 AM
If you actually have a point relevant to RPGs make it, otherwise this doesn't belong here.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: hamstertamer on June 26, 2013, 07:05:52 AM
Quote from: One Horse Town;665723If you actually have a point relevant to RPGs make it, otherwise this doesn't belong here.

The poll has barely been up for two hours now.  If I attempted to explain the point then the poll would become pointless.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: One Horse Town on June 26, 2013, 07:11:52 AM
Quote from: hamstertamer;665728The poll has barely been up for two hours now.  If I attempted to explain the point then the poll would become pointless.

Very well, i'll let you wow us with your intellect and super-duper site profiling later.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Opaopajr on June 26, 2013, 07:50:43 AM
It's all realistic with enough LSD.:cheerleader:
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: vytzka on June 26, 2013, 07:52:47 AM
Quote from: Opaopajr;665731It's all realistic with enough LSD.:cheerleader:

Or the opposite.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Opaopajr on June 26, 2013, 07:54:22 AM
Quote from: vytzka;665732Or the opposite.

;) It's magical that way. One of the few things on Earth that is! :D
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: flyingmice on June 26, 2013, 08:19:34 AM
Quote from: One Horse Town;665729Very well, i'll let you wow us with your intellect and super-duper site profiling later.

He's setting us up for the stunning denouement, where he proves convincingly that Realism "does not meant what you think it means!". Yawn. I didn't bother to look at that ridiculous thread, and I shouldn't have bothered to look at this one.

From Wikipedia:

Realism, Realistic, or Realists may refer to:

    Realism (arts), the general attempt to depict things accurately, from either a visual, social or emotional perspective
    Realism (international relations), the view that world politics are driven by competitive self-interest
    Realism (theatre), 19th century theatre movement focused on bringing fidelity of real life to texts and performances
    Literary realism, a literary movement stressing the depiction of contemporary life and society as it exists or existed
    Philosophical realism, belief that reality exists independently of observers
    Scientific realism, the doctrine that certain objects or theories in science are real
    Depressive realism, a theory that individuals suffering from clinical depression have a more accurate view of reality
    Ethnographic realism, a writing style that narrates the author's anthropological observations as if they were first-hand
    Legal realism, a jurisprudence emphasizing the substantive results of the law
    Tactical realism, a genre of combat simulations in computer gaming
    Magic realism, a literary genre
    Realism theory, the belief that cognitive biases are not "errors", but rather methods of dealing with the "real world"
    Vienna School of Fantastic Realism, art movement
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: One Horse Town on June 26, 2013, 08:37:15 AM
Quote from: flyingmice;665735He's setting us up for the stunning denouement, where he proves convincingly that Realism "does not meant what you think it means!". Yawn. I didn't bother to look at that ridiculous thread, and I shouldn't have bothered to look at this one.


Very wise.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: jibbajibba on June 26, 2013, 09:14:32 AM
Quote from: flyingmice;665735He's setting us up for the stunning denouement, where he proves convincingly that Realism "does not meant what you think it means!". Yawn. I didn't bother to look at that ridiculous thread, and I shouldn't have bothered to look at this one.

From Wikipedia:

Realism, Realistic, or Realists may refer to:

    Realism (arts), the general attempt to depict things accurately, from either a visual, social or emotional perspective
    Realism (international relations), the view that world politics are driven by competitive self-interest
    Realism (theatre), 19th century theatre movement focused on bringing fidelity of real life to texts and performances
    Literary realism, a literary movement stressing the depiction of contemporary life and society as it exists or existed
    Philosophical realism, belief that reality exists independently of observers
    Scientific realism, the doctrine that certain objects or theories in science are real
    Depressive realism, a theory that individuals suffering from clinical depression have a more accurate view of reality
    Ethnographic realism, a writing style that narrates the author's anthropological observations as if they were first-hand
    Legal realism, a jurisprudence emphasizing the substantive results of the law
    Tactical realism, a genre of combat simulations in computer gaming
    Magic realism, a literary genre
    Realism theory, the belief that cognitive biases are not "errors", but rather methods of dealing with the "real world"
    Vienna School of Fantastic Realism, art movement

Oh I thought he was going to tell me that Sutherland was a better artist than Picasso :)
Oh and the other stuff.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Warthur on June 26, 2013, 09:37:38 AM
Woman holding flower is more realistic in its premise (dragons, so far as we know, don't exist outside of our imaginations; women and flowers certainly do).
Woman riding dragon is more realistic in its execution (the woman looks like a woman, the dragon looks like a dragon, the landscape looks like a landscape, the whole assembly doesn't look like a weird fever dream).

Everyone wins!

Serious though: all this demonstrates is that you can get interesting results by giving a realistic premise an unrealistic execution, or an unrealistic premise a realistic execution (or, indeed, a realistic premise a realistic execution or an unrealistic premise an unrealistic execution). This is news how?
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Brad on June 26, 2013, 09:43:25 AM
After managing to sit through Aesthetics in graduate school without killing myself, I started to see humor in such pedestrian stupidity.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Frundsberg on June 26, 2013, 09:43:28 AM
Today I need to be shocked, so there goes my vote.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Shawn Driscoll on June 26, 2013, 09:55:47 AM
They both look like realistic paintings.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: David Johansen on June 26, 2013, 09:57:02 AM
Obviously the one with gory critical hit tables and ammunition tracking.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: The Ent on June 26, 2013, 10:52:31 AM
Ha, I'm the only one that voted "woman holding a flower"? :D

...realistic =/= figurative...

Oh well, it will probably be fun to see how this thread develops.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Exploderwizard on June 26, 2013, 11:33:32 AM
Both paintings exist in our reality thus both are equally realistic.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Benoist on June 26, 2013, 12:02:01 PM
Quote from: The Ent;665773Ha, I'm the only one that voted "woman holding a flower"? :D

...realistic =/= figurative...

Oh well, it will probably be fun to see how this thread develops.

You're not the only one. I feel it's the most realistic as well.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: flyingmice on June 26, 2013, 12:37:26 PM
Let's settle this the good old fashioned grammar nazi way. Neither can be MOST realistic, as this is a comparison between two things, not among three or more, so one can only be MORE realistic than the other.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Kaiu Keiichi on June 26, 2013, 12:38:58 PM
Both are mediated,and therefore realistic according to their creators definitions.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: jeff37923 on June 26, 2013, 01:00:33 PM
I reject your reality and substitute my own!

(http://www.peterelson.co.uk/images/gallery/medium/TheEinsteinIntersection.jpg)
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Benoist on June 26, 2013, 01:14:42 PM
Quote from: flyingmice;665795Let's settle this the good old fashioned grammar nazi way. Neither can be MOST realistic, as this is a comparison between two things, not among three or more, so one can only be MORE realistic than the other.

Correct.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: hamstertamer on June 26, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
Quote from: flyingmice;665795Let's settle this the good old fashioned grammar nazi way. Neither can be MOST realistic, as this is a comparison between two things, not among three or more, so one can only be MORE realistic than the other.

The title of the thread has a grammar mistake, but the poll question actually asks for "more realistic."
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Exploderwizard on June 26, 2013, 01:40:50 PM
Quote from: hamstertamer;665825The title of the thread has a grammar mistake, but the poll question actually asks for "more realistic."

Congratulations. You have figured out the true purpose of this poll. It has nothing to do with the paintings, its all about the grammar contridictions of the thread title and the actual poll.

You get a cookie. :rotfl:
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: flyingmice on June 26, 2013, 02:22:05 PM
Quote from: hamstertamer;665825The title of the thread has a grammar mistake, but the poll question actually asks for "more realistic."

Oh my stars and garter belts! Why... why that must mean the OP was just sincerely curious about which picture was more realistic, and wasn't cruelly playing on the ambiguous, multiplexed definition of the word realistic to win an argument on the innertubesnet? I am... verklempt! I am such a cynical bastard!

-clash
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: vytzka on June 26, 2013, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;665796Both are mediated,and therefore realistic according to their creators definitions.

Fence-sitting swine!
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Rincewind1 on June 26, 2013, 04:33:02 PM
Everything is shit.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Mistwell on June 26, 2013, 04:47:17 PM
She's wearing just a bikini while flying high in the atmosphere? Totally unrealistic!
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: JeremyR on June 26, 2013, 11:54:03 PM
Quote from: Mistwell;665882She's wearing just a bikini while flying high in the atmosphere? Totally unrealistic!

I would say she's fairly close to the ground. It looks like she's closer to the ground than that tower in the background is.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Koltar on June 27, 2013, 12:11:33 AM
What if she named the dragon 'Flower' ?

What if that woman had a time machine, used it for fun and dating, met Picasso and posed for him - so she is is the model in BOTH paintings!!

- Ed C.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: jibbajibba on June 27, 2013, 01:14:00 AM
Quote from: Koltar;665966What if she named the dragon 'Flower' ?

What if that woman had a time machine, used it for fun and dating, met Picasso and posed for him - so she is is the model in BOTH paintings!!

- Ed C.

Well since the model in Woman with flower is Marie-Therese Walter who Picasso met in 1927 and whom he live with until c. 1935 having 2 kids and we know basically everything about her biography ... its unlikely, though not impossible.

Anyway didn't we already decide Flower is a wyvern :)
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: jibbajibba on June 27, 2013, 01:25:26 AM
Woman with a flower is one of Picasso's best known works, of course.

However we should give credit where its due and the artist of the Wyvern pic Martha Nael is really good. This is a digital picture by the way and so probably isn't as real as the Picasso as you couldn't hang the original on your wall.

However, unlike Pablo Martha is still available to hire to illustrate your next RPG project. Here is her CV - http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/o/2010/362/7/4/7416c17006c4fdc640b124704fc9dec1.pdf
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: RPGPundit on June 28, 2013, 01:39:49 AM
Neither of them are "realistic".  They are both different kinds of emulation.  In each case, the artist (or viewer) may have felt one was somehow more "realistic" than the other because one of the two paintings came closing to matching his own personal ideas of what "matters" when considering "realism"; which is why "realism" is a chimera and trying to argue for "Realism" being a design goal in RPGs is retarded.

RPGPundit
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Bill on June 28, 2013, 12:32:00 PM
We could have just had a thread to define various realism related terms.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: One Horse Town on June 28, 2013, 12:37:20 PM
Where's the brilliant reveal?

I'm disappointed now.
Title: Which painting is most realistic?
Post by: Bill on June 28, 2013, 01:22:10 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;666441Where's the brilliant reveal?

I'm disappointed now.


(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/62158_404968156252088_977909923_n.jpg)



(http://findingdamo.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/apocalypse.png?w=538)