I'm likely going to be running a monster hunter campaign in the near future and I'm trying to capture the tone of the tv show Supernatural with a bit of X-Files-style investigation. So far I have narrowed my potential candidates list down to Monster of the Week (Evil Hat Productions) or potentially Hunter the Reckoning (Renegade Games Studios). I might just opt to go with my general-purpose horror RPG of choice, Shiver (Parable Games) if none of these would seem to do the trick well.
Which one of these games would capture this essence best?
Hunter: The Vigil is probably a better choice than Hunter: The Reckoning. HtR is wrapped up in its bloated incoherent metaplot and insane hatred of "orgs" (the author seems to have a psychotic hateboner for Hunter: The Vigil that absolutely permeates the work, treating all hunters as lunatics that hate organizations), while HtV lets you have monsters like werewolves that are repelled by crucifixes and the PC options include playing as Damien from The Omen if he was raised to fight monsters by Father Anderson from Hellsing. But if you don't need HtV's various colorful factions, then Monster of the Week should be fine.
I have Hunter: The Reckoning, and it works fine so long as you want to play up the insanity (often literally) of chasing after monsters as a vocation. For a Supernatural-inspired game, this can actually fit quite well. Not every hunter was as sane as the Winchesters (and even they had their crazy moments).
You can also do it with Conspiracy X (2e is what I'm familiar with), especially if some of your monsters are aliens (or alien hybrids or constructs). This would give a blend of something like Supernatural/X-Files.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 31, 2024, 08:12:59 PMHunter: The Vigil is probably a better choice than Hunter: The Reckoning.
How does H:tR 2022 differ from H:tR 1999? The latter had some weird ideas. "Vigil" deserves a lot more praise than it gets. One of my favorites from the NWoD era.
Quote from: HappyDazeYou can also do it with Conspiracy X (2e is what I'm familiar with)
Excellent choice.
This is another one that I honestly have to say that it's less about the system and a lot more about how it's run behind the screen. A hunt is a form of investigation. It's all about how you give clues and manage the prey's behavior.
A game worth looking at if you want a really good mechanical representation of hunting is Fury of Dracula.
Quote from: Aglondir on July 31, 2024, 09:54:36 PMHow does H:tR 2022 differ from H:tR 1999? The latter had some weird ideas. "Vigil" deserves a lot more praise than it gets. One of my favorites from the NWoD era
In HtR 2022, hunters are individuals or small groups that have very limited information on their prey and have to find out "how the monster works" in play, often the hard way. They have no powers, and generally very little backing from outside their members own abilities and resources. Large organzations also hunt monsters, but they are largely corrupted agencies doing what they do for their own benefits (usually power and influence of one sort or another) rather than to simiply protect humans from monsters (though that can be a side benefit). You can sometimes ally with some of those larger organizations, but their agenda will likely never match your own, and you can risk selling out (which doesn't necessarily hurt you, but it can sometimes negatively impact those you're trying to protect).
Quote from: Batjon on July 31, 2024, 08:04:05 PMI'm likely going to be running a monster hunter campaign in the near future and I'm trying to capture the tone of the tv show Supernatural with a bit of X-Files-style investigation. So far I have narrowed my potential candidates list down to Monster of the Week (Evil Hat Productions) or potentially Hunter the Reckoning (Renegade Games Studios). I might just opt to go with my general-purpose horror RPG of choice, Shiver (Parable Games) if none of these would seem to do the trick well.
Which one of these games would capture this essence best?
Monster of the Week does investigations really, really well. It is the non-Traveller one-shot of choice for our Traveller group. Have not watched Supernatural and only seen an episode or two of X-Files. But the creepy investigatory stuff, MotW does really, really well. When I read the rules, they seemed a bit to story gamey to me. But both GMs who have ran it, while handling it differently, made it fun without railroading us into a story.
Quote from: Aglondir on July 31, 2024, 09:54:36 PMHow does H:tR 2022 differ from H:tR 1999? The latter had some weird ideas.
The Imbued have been retconned out of existence, rendering the title nonsensical since the Reckoning was the metaplot event that created the Imbued. Otherwise, the premise is an inferior rip-off of Vigil, except that the writer hates organizations on principle and characterizes them all as universally evil.
Quote from: Aglondir on July 31, 2024, 09:54:36 PM"Vigil" deserves a lot more praise than it gets. One of my favorites from the NWoD era.
I personally think it's the best monster hunter rpg made thus far, if only because it gives you lots of different organizations to employ the PC and different suites of capabilities for each. Chill only has SAVE, but Vigil had government agencies, pharmaceutical corporations, idle rich, secret wings of the Vatican, ancient Egyptian cults, amateur online forums, etc.
I wish somebody would make a spiritual successor, but dumb copyright law means that Paradox could arbitrarily sue anyone who makes anything similar. They don't even need a sound case, they can bankrupt you with a frivolous lawsuit.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:27:49 PMthe writer hates organizations on principle and characterizes them all as universally evil.
Self-serving is not the same as universally evil. The large organizations may do the right things for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean they aren't still doing some good. There are, of course, some that are just bad guys, but that's not universally true.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 01, 2024, 11:47:15 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:27:49 PMthe writer hates organizations on principle and characterizes them all as universally evil.
Self-serving is not the same as universally evil. The large organizations may do the right things for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean they aren't still doing some good. There are, of course, some that are just bad guys, but that's not universally true.
It's an inferior ripoff of Vigil that hates the game it is ripping off.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 01, 2024, 04:37:08 AMQuote from: Aglondir on July 31, 2024, 09:54:36 PMHow does H:tR 2022 differ from H:tR 1999? The latter had some weird ideas. "Vigil" deserves a lot more praise than it gets. One of my favorites from the NWoD era
In HtR 2022, hunters are individuals or small groups that have very limited information on their prey and have to find out "how the monster works" in play, often the hard way. They have no powers, and generally very little backing from outside their members own abilities and resources. Large organzations also hunt monsters, but they are largely corrupted agencies doing what they do for their own benefits (usually power and influence of one sort or another) rather than to simiply protect humans from monsters (though that can be a side benefit). You can sometimes ally with some of those larger organizations, but their agenda will likely never match your own, and you can risk selling out (which doesn't necessarily hurt you, but it can sometimes negatively impact those you're trying to protect).
Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like an inferior take on Vigil.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 02, 2024, 05:16:10 PMQuote from: HappyDaze on August 01, 2024, 11:47:15 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:27:49 PMthe writer hates organizations on principle and characterizes them all as universally evil.
Self-serving is not the same as universally evil. The large organizations may do the right things for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean they aren't still doing some good. There are, of course, some that are just bad guys, but that's not universally true.
It's an inferior ripoff of Vigil that hates the game it is ripping off.
LOL,should have read to the end of the thread before replying. Why do the authors of H:tR 2022 hate Vigil so much?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 02, 2024, 05:16:10 PMQuote from: HappyDaze on August 01, 2024, 11:47:15 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:27:49 PMthe writer hates organizations on principle and characterizes them all as universally evil.
Self-serving is not the same as universally evil. The large organizations may do the right things for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean they aren't still doing some good. There are, of course, some that are just bad guys, but that's not universally true.
It's an inferior ripoff of Vigil that hates the game it is ripping off.
That's just like, your opionion, man.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 03, 2024, 02:32:43 AMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 02, 2024, 05:16:10 PMQuote from: HappyDaze on August 01, 2024, 11:47:15 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:27:49 PMthe writer hates organizations on principle and characterizes them all as universally evil.
Self-serving is not the same as universally evil. The large organizations may do the right things for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean they aren't still doing some good. There are, of course, some that are just bad guys, but that's not universally true.
It's an inferior ripoff of Vigil that hates the game it is ripping off.
That's just like, your opionion, man.
Given it uses the same mechanics and philosophy as the travesty that is V5 I'd say it's a well-grounded and evidence-backed opinion. Still an opinion, but definitely not knee-jerk or ill-considered one.
Quote from: Aglondir on August 03, 2024, 01:07:03 AMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 02, 2024, 05:16:10 PMQuote from: HappyDaze on August 01, 2024, 11:47:15 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:27:49 PMthe writer hates organizations on principle and characterizes them all as universally evil.
Self-serving is not the same as universally evil. The large organizations may do the right things for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean they aren't still doing some good. There are, of course, some that are just bad guys, but that's not universally true.
It's an inferior ripoff of Vigil that hates the game it is ripping off.
LOL,should have read to the end of the thread before replying. Why do the authors of H:tR 2022 hate Vigil so much?
Ever since Chronicles of Darkness briefly supplanted World of Darkness during its hiatus from 2004-2012, World of Darkness fans have had a huge toxic hateboner for Chronicles. It's a poisonous grudge they cannot let go of even though Paradox canceled CoD years ago and memory holed it.
I'm only disappointed that nobody has made a spiritual successor to Vigil. The writers had tons of neat ideas for hunter organizations that I've yet to see in another game. Copyright law is so stupid.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 03, 2024, 10:17:00 AMQuote from: Aglondir on August 03, 2024, 01:07:03 AMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 02, 2024, 05:16:10 PMQuote from: HappyDaze on August 01, 2024, 11:47:15 PMQuote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 01, 2024, 12:27:49 PMthe writer hates organizations on principle and characterizes them all as universally evil.
Self-serving is not the same as universally evil. The large organizations may do the right things for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean they aren't still doing some good. There are, of course, some that are just bad guys, but that's not universally true.
It's an inferior ripoff of Vigil that hates the game it is ripping off.
LOL,should have read to the end of the thread before replying. Why do the authors of H:tR 2022 hate Vigil so much?
Ever since Chronicles of Darkness briefly supplanted World of Darkness during its hiatus from 2004-2012, World of Darkness fans have had a huge toxic hateboner for Chronicles. It's a poisonous grudge they cannot let go of even though Paradox canceled CoD years ago and memory holed it.
I'm only disappointed that nobody has made a spiritual successor to Vigil. The writers had tons of neat ideas for hunter organizations that I've yet to see in another game. Copyright law is so stupid.
I don't think it's the copyright in this case that's the problem and more just that there are already so many systems you can go to for many variations on the Urban Fantasy experience that anyone with a hankering to run something doesn't generally think "I need to write up a whole new system and could then market it" they just think, "Okay, I could use SWADE or M&M or FATE or GURPS or HERO or my old copy of d20Modern or..."
It take a special kind to want to write and publish game systems... well beyond the "write supplements or retroclones" level... particularly when good enough notes for their home game will actually cover all their realistic needs.
That said, just for you, I'll make Hunters of The Damned my next project for once my current Science Fantasy project is complete.
It's quicker and easier to use a game specifically designed for the experience you're looking for rather than hacking an existing game that isn't designed for the experience you're looking for.
So far I've identified five or so different takes on (non-Cthulhu mythos related) paranormal investigations: traditional horror (e.g. Chill, Cryptworld, Nightbane, Buffy/Angel), conspiracy thriller (e.g. Tabloid!, Dark•Matter, Bureau 13, Conspiracy X), time-hopping immortals (e.g. War of Ages, Invisible War, Nephilim, Everlasting, Fireborn), Hanna-Barbera cartoons (e.g. the Hijinx mini-setting from Polyhedron magazine), meta-fictional (e.g. Tales from Crypt for MasterBook). Not to mention spy thriller (e.g. SpyCraft, Necroscope for MasterBook, I Psi for QAGS).
I'm really peeved that WotC killed d20 Modern. It covered pretty much every genre outside of medieval fantasy, which are otherwise a crapshoot to find games for. With WotC behind it, it was very easy to find groups.