Moldvay B/X. Or if you want a complete game derived from it, Adventurer, Conqueror, King.

I just recently used Dungeon Crawl Classics to introduce my girlfriend to RPGs.  Granted, she's not a small child, but as a newbie she instantly understood the simple and intuitive skeleton that DCC lays out.  It took her 7 seconds to grok Mighty Deeds of Arms, whereas Feats would have made her eyes glaze over.  I think mechanical complexity is what overwhelms many new/young players.  Then again, as a kid I was drawn to AD&D1e in part because of Gygax's weird syntax and disorganization.  It was a puzzle I wanted to figure out.  I guess it really just boils down to the personality of the person (attention span, frustration threshold, etc.)

Quote from: RabidWookie;747202I just recently used Dungeon Crawl Classics to introduce my girlfriend to RPGs.  Granted, she's not a small child, but as a newbie she instantly understood the simple and intuitive skeleton that DCC lays out.  It took her 7 seconds to grok Mighty Deeds of Arms, whereas Feats would have made her eyes glaze over.  I think mechanical complexity is what overwhelms many new/young players.  Then again, as a kid I was drawn to AD&D1e in part because of Gygax's weird syntax and disorganization.  It was a puzzle I wanted to figure out.  I guess it really just boils down to the personality of the person (attention span, frustration threshold, etc.)

Without wanting to derail this thread, I'm curious: did you play the character funnel or just started with Lv1 characters?

Speaking as someone who started with white box and then 1e before moving onto other systems...

I'd recommend Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert. It's been cloned as Labyrinth Lord, which I believe you can download for free and buy in hard copy. There is a supplement (AEC) that's supposed to make it equivalent to AD&D if you wish.

IMO there's enough detail there to support real campaigning, yet the rules are compact and the presentation is very clear without being infantilized.

My second choice would be the equivalent of White Box plus supplements, but not the actual thing. I think Swords & Wizardry Complete.

The thing I like about these statements of the game is they cover everything, without imposing unnecessary detail. I haven't actually read many of the neo-dungeoncrawling games but my impression is they're circumscribed in a way. With white box you had a framework to play from with DM judgment and you could see a way forward to expanding the game or adding detail if you wished. The neo-stuff (not retro-clones, but many of the games that claim a retro "feel" while offering "modern mechanics") seem rather pat.

One other suggestion I'd have is to look at Kevin Crawford's games. For fantasy, that would be Red Tide. I wasn't too crazy about the premise so I haven't bought it yet, but after reading through Other Dust I think he has an excellent handle on mechanics and campaign prep.

If you are going to start with Moldvay Basic, have PCs die at -10 hp, unconscious at 0 hp (as in AD&D), or else start above 1st level. Dying from the first blow of the first goblin just isn't much fun for most children.

Quote from: S'mon;747229If you are going to start with Moldvay Basic, have PCs die at -10 hp, unconscious at 0 hp (as in AD&D), or else start above 1st level. Dying from the first blow of the first goblin just isn't much fun for most children.

I think that killing a kid's character is going to be very traumatic for the kid (depends on the kid, of course), he won't care if his character took one or twenty blows before dying.

I'd personally advice against killing a kid's character, unconsciousness should be the most serious penalty that should happen to it. But again, it depends on the kid (and his age).

Quote from: Maese Mateo;747212Without wanting to derail this thread, I'm curious: did you play the character funnel or just started with Lv1 characters?

Not the queried poster, but I ran a 'funnel' style DCC game for a group of non-gamer newbies, and it was fantastic. They totally grocked the idea that they were a bunch of zero's trying to survive.

Quote from: Maese Mateo;747232I think that killing a kid's character is going to be very traumatic for the kid (depends on the kid, of course), he won't care if his character took one or twenty blows before dying.

I'd personally advice against killing a kid's character, unconsciousness should be the most serious penalty that should happen to it. But again, it depends on the kid (and his age).

One of the kids I play with pretty much flat out challenged me, started doing stuff in-game to see if I'd kill off his PC.
I played fair, let him face the consequences... his PC didn't end up getting killed, but it's in a state that's gonna have him rolling up a new one next game.
He thought it was hilarious, as did his brother.
I really don't think kids are any more likely to freak out than the average adult... in fact, based on experience, if I had to put money on it I'd expect 'adults' to generally handle it worse.

Really, my free neo-clone Dark Passages works pretty good for kids.  One of the main reasons I wrote it actually.  Well, that and massive bitterness I suppose.

It gives out a hit dice for level zero.  This means with maximum hit points at first level, most PCs will start with around 16 hp.  Makes that first goblin a bit more digestable.

I've found it cuts down on the first level whining significantly.

Still, if you want to start new players with say, Moldvay or Mentzer I'd suggest starting them at third level.  More spells for the magic-user and more hit points for everyone.  Then run a first level adventure.

Older versions of D&D are pretty hard core and unforgiving for today's kids.  Fun, mind you, if you can accept the need to be creative and accept character death as part of the game.

Although plenty of older versions are just fine, the Pathfinder Beginner Box, as mentioned, would work pretty well.  One of the reviews here mentions an 11 year old having a ton of fun with it.  You can get a PDF for $10, although the full box ($35) ships with tokens, dice, and a battle mat. If you follow that link you can check out some previews.

Quote from: Simlasa;747297I really don't think kids are any more likely to freak out than the average adult... in fact, based on experience, if I had to put money on it I'd expect 'adults' to generally handle it worse.

I don't think it's age-dependent at all really, depends on the person. My son Bill (about to turn 7) is very good at not dying, but I'll certainly kill his PCs - only managed it once so far; and I was fairly generous allowing a raise dead after the last of his companions still standing killed the monster (it was a ridiculously overpowered fight, a tough CR 4 Faceless Stalker vs 3 1st level PCs, but Bill blows through even-level encounters like a true diehard). I did take all the magic loot as payment for the raise dead.
But I do think "you have 3 hp and die at 0" is not a great idea for an introductory RPG.

Quote from: David Johansen;747338Still, if you want to start new players with say, Moldvay or Mentzer I'd suggest starting them at third level.  More spells for the magic-user and more hit points for everyone.  Then run a first level adventure.

For my BECMI campaign with Bill I ran him as a solo PC and started him as MU 4, which gave him a reasonable array of spells. He asked for a dragonrider campaign, so he also started with a white dragon. :cool: We ran Karameikos stuff, mix of politics & fighting, Bill's PC married into the royal family, and then X1 Isle of Dread (dragon stayed in Karameikos) with him leading a small army of mostly Ftr1 mooks, trying to keep them alive (not easy!).

Quote from: Maese Mateo;747232I think that killing a kid's character is going to be very traumatic for the kid (depends on the kid, of course), he won't care if his character took one or twenty blows before dying.

I'd personally advice against killing a kid's character, unconsciousness should be the most serious penalty that should happen to it. But again, it depends on the kid (and his age).

My first ever game, the GM went out of his way to stick me in a no-win scenario, in the hopes that it would discourage me from getting further involved in the hobby.

Didn't work.

I think it is the GMs duty to NOT kill any PC - unless characters act without any due regard.

I'd say Tunnels & Trolls is a very good starting point for kids.

However, if you want to keep within the limits of D&D (or D&D-like) I think the Basic Fantasy retro clone is a very good choice: http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/basicfantasy

You can buy the book and some modules (if you need any) in hardcopy at lulu and the basic fantasy site (//www.basicfantasy.org) has a crapload of optional supplements in pdf if you get a campaign rolling and want to expand in more "advanced" territory.