I'm wanting to pick up at least the first three core set of books, but I'm what other books escaped the woke agenda? Is xanathars guide to everything safe?
Which adventures are written for normal human beings?
And outside of the core 3 books, which others would be considered "must have"?
I think there's always been a hint of it, but I think it really ramped up around the time that the Theros sourcebook was released. I remember that's when I started noticing public statements from their staff and even from the company itself. Then you had Tasha's which pretty much had explicit modern politics in the book itself. The core three are relatively safe, in my opinion, but I wouldn't buy them anymore because I don't want to give my money to a company that hates me.
off topic
Is the 5E Eberron book worth picking up?
As far as books published by Wizards of the Goat; I would recommend the earlier printings of:
The Core 3 Books, plus:
Xanathar's Guide
Tasha's Cauldron
Volo's Guide
Mordenkainen's Tome
Adventures:
Tales from the Yawning Portal
Dungeon of the Mad Mage
The Yawning Portal sits on top of Undermountain; the Dungeon of the Mad Mage.
And then I jumped off the 5E carousel.....
Quote from: Jam The MF on August 08, 2022, 10:02:15 PM
As far as books published by Wizards of the Goat; I would recommend the earlier printings of:
The Core 3 Books, plus:
Xanathar's Guide
Tasha's Cauldron
Volo's Guide
Mordenkainen's Tome
Adventures:
Tales from the Yawning Portal
Dungeon of the Mad Mage
The Yawning Portal sits on top of Undermountain; the Dungeon of the Mad Mage.
And then I jumped off the 5E carousel.....
Why the early printings? I just ordered the first 3 books off Amazon, says they're the 2018 printings.
None of them. If you want non-woke stuff, go back to anything before 5e.
Quote from: Monero on August 08, 2022, 10:05:06 PM
Quote from: Jam The MF on August 08, 2022, 10:02:15 PM
As far as books published by Wizards of the Goat; I would recommend the earlier printings of:
The Core 3 Books, plus:
Xanathar's Guide
Tasha's Cauldron
Volo's Guide
Mordenkainen's Tome
Adventures:
Tales from the Yawning Portal
Dungeon of the Mad Mage
The Yawning Portal sits on top of Undermountain; the Dungeon of the Mad Mage.
And then I jumped off the 5E carousel.....
Why the early printings? I just ordered the first 3 books off Amazon, says they're the 2018 printings.
Good question. I didn't criticize your choice of 5E. I just tried to help. Some members will try to talk you out of 5E. I won't.
#1. WOTC removed due credit acknowledgements to content contributors, at some point; but the earlier printings gave those people credit. It's only fair to give them credit.
#2. WOTC got paid for the old printings, long ago. You wouldn't be contributing to their current budget.
I don't hate 5E.
Quote from: Jam The MF on August 08, 2022, 10:02:15 PM
As far as books published by Wizards of the Goat; I would recommend the earlier printings of:
The Core 3 Books, plus:
Xanathar's Guide
Tasha's Cauldron
Volo's Guide
Mordenkainen's Tome
Adventures:
Tales from the Yawning Portal
Dungeon of the Mad Mage
The Yawning Portal sits on top of Undermountain; the Dungeon of the Mad Mage.
And then I jumped off the 5E carousel.....
Greetings!
Excellent recommendations, Jam The MF!
Monero, these selections recommended here should get you good to go. Whatever printing you want. Order them from Amazon and you are good.
I have almost all of the books by WOTC, and especially these earlier books are all fine. The woke nonsense doesn't get too much into the rule books--but you see more and more of it in adventure books, such as Nu Ravenloft and afterwards.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
If you are going to buy 5E stuff anyway, better to skip Tasha's and get a Kobold Press monster book instead. Better monsters than the Monster Manual, and far more useful than another set of WotC bit and pieces.
Of course, if I had it do over again (and I wouldn't now), I'd skip everything from WotC except the core 3 + Xanathar's, and then go with Kobold Press for several monster books and their adventures. Full disclosure--even before WotC went off the rails, I wasn't impressed with their hyper-focus on adventure path hardbacks instead of something built to be used at the table by a GM.
Pre 2018 is pretty safe. But as noted, the campaigns are pretty weak. I would get core 3 plus Xanathar's.
Volo's is mildly useful for variant races plus some monsters. Stick to Kobold Press for monster books and adventures.
Original Mordenkain's has demon Lords and arch devils, but I have only ever used 1 monster, the Grey Render. Kobold Press monster books are vastly cooler IME.
I'd avoid Tasha's Fizban's and all the campaign books.
I have and I am going to run Ghosts of Saltmarsh and it looks like it's pretty non-woke.
But then its just a reprinting and organizing (with some updates) of old adventures.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on August 09, 2022, 07:48:57 AM
If you are going to buy 5E stuff anyway, better to skip Tasha's and get a Kobold Press monster book instead. Better monsters than the Monster Manual, and far more useful than another set of WotC bit and pieces.
Of course, if I had it do over again (and I wouldn't now), I'd skip everything from WotC except the core 3 + Xanathar's, and then go with Kobold Press for several monster books and their adventures. Full disclosure--even before WotC went off the rails, I wasn't impressed with their hyper-focus on adventure path hardbacks instead of something built to be used at the table by a GM.
I have the first Tome of Beasts, by Kobold Press. It's pretty darn good.
Here's the thing: 5e is a fine system, it's WOTC that sucks.
If you're going to buy anything 5e, I would suggest looking for used books. Not only are they cheaper, but you aren't directly giving money to a shitty company.
As for which books are "woke" or not, why would that matter? You can always ignore anything you don't like. What really matters is the use you'll get from the book for the price you paid. Outside of the Core books, Xanathar's, and maybe Mordenkainen's, I haven't found the other sourcebooks to be worth the cover price. (Thankfully, I paid much, much less for all my copies. ;) )
The first book I regretted buying was Tasha's Crock of Excrement. I didn't give two shits about the woke nothingburger that everyone else here seems to feast on. No, what I didn't like about it was the changes they made to class/subclass mechanics and some of the badly built/balanced/tested crap that got through to print. This was not only the first 5e book I regretted buying, it was also the last 5e book I bought.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 09, 2022, 03:26:12 PM
The first book I regretted buying was Tasha's Crock of Excrement. I didn't give two shits about the woke nothingburger that everyone else here seems to feast on. No, what I didn't like about it was the changes they made to class/subclass mechanics and some of the badly built/balanced/tested crap that got through to print. This was not only the first 5e book I regretted buying, it was also the last 5e book I bought.
Tasha's chilled me out too, but there were a few decent things there.
Core three plus Xanathar's would be my pick. I think Xanathar was neutered a little, but the additions are nice. The DMG is underrated and probably the best since the original.
If you want to avoid giving money to Wizards and have a little bit of experience already, you could grab the basic rules for free and homebrew the rest. You can google the free PDF. At one point the D&D Beyond app would also allow you to access the Basic Rules for free.
Quote from: FingerRod on August 09, 2022, 07:37:12 PM
Core three plus Xanathar's would be my pick. I think Xanathar was neutered a little, but the additions are nice. The DMG is underrated and probably the best since the original.
If you want to avoid giving money to Wizards and have a little bit of experience already, you could grab the basic rules for free and homebrew the rest. You can google the free PDF. At one point the D&D Beyond app would also allow you to access the Basic Rules for free.
Used copies of the core three books are incredibly easy to find, at least in the USA.
Go with Ruins of Symbaroum for 5e. All you need is the D&D 5e SRD and the 3 books for RoS. It's not woke and Free League did the 5e adaptation of Symbaroum the right way. Skip D&D 5e altogether.
Quote from: Monero on August 08, 2022, 08:24:34 PM
And outside of the core 3 books, which others would be considered "must have"?
While nothing beyond the core 3 is truly must have, Xanathar's has the following major stuff omitted from the DMG/MM:
1. Proper encounter tables, using only MM monsters. This was a noticeable omission from DMG/MM.
2. Decent magic item crafting rules, with much better durations & pricing.
3. Other good downtime rules - though some in the DMG remain good.
4. Common magic items - more fun than necessary, but good for a common-weak-magic sort of setting.
The lists of names are handy but not vital.
And it has some good stuff for players, like the Forge Domain cleric and racial feats, though nothing really vital.
I certainly reference XGTE in play a lot more than the DMG, though the DMG does have good discursive material. It suffers from a really weird, non-intuitive structure, with some of the most advanced material right up front.
Core 3 plus Xanathar's will get you set pretty well.
Tasha's is very optional. A few of the additional subclasses are decent, but not enough on their own to justify the price. The new optional rule on attributes was stupid. Most of the subclasses are weird and don't have a true D&D feel.
Would consider:
Rime of the Frost Maiden (Played it and enjoyed)
Tales from the Yawning Portal (Collection of older good adventures converted to 5e)
Candlekeep Mysteries. A collection of short adventures for various levels. Okay if you need that.
Original printing of Volo's Guide. Some lore, some monstrous PC races.
On the fence about:
Storm King's Thunder (Read, but didn't play. They try to have level 1 characters start a campaign to fight giants, and band-aid it by giving you powerful NPC help. Not every adventure book has to start at Level One. )
Own them and would say not worth the price:
Theros. Definitely not worth the price. Less than a 3rd of the book is useful. Better off finding a 3rd party Ancient Greece setting for half the price.
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. My 1st disappointment with these being not worth the price. A few good subclasses in a very thin book. They have crates of Forgotten Realms material in the back room and they could barely come up with 156 pages?
Wild Beyond the Witchlight. Underwhelming.
Not interested:
Ebbaron, Ravnica. The best settings books are 3rd party, and I'm not into second-hand MtG ported stuff. (No offense to MtG players, but it's just not my gig.)
Quote from: DM_Curt on August 10, 2022, 07:54:31 AM
Core 3 plus Xanathar's will get you set pretty well.
Tasha's is very optional. A few of the additional subclasses are decent, but not enough on their own to justify the price. The new optional rule on attributes was stupid. Most of the subclasses are weird and don't have a true D&D feel.
Would consider:
Rime of the Frost Maiden (Played it and enjoyed)
Tales from the Yawning Portal (Collection of older good adventures converted to 5e)
Candlekeep Mysteries. A collection of short adventures for various levels. Okay if you need that.
Original printing of Volo's Guide. Some lore, some monstrous PC races.
On the fence about:
Storm King's Thunder (Read, but didn't play. They try to have level 1 characters start a campaign to fight giants, and band-aid it by giving you powerful NPC help. Not every adventure book has to start at Level One. )
Own them and would say not worth the price:
Theros. Definitely not worth the price. Less than a 3rd of the book is useful. Better off finding a 3rd party Ancient Greece setting for half the price.
Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. My 1st disappointment with these being not worth the price. A few good subclasses in a very thin book. They have crates of Forgotten Realms material in the back room and they could barely come up with 156 pages?
Wild Beyond the Witchlight. Underwhelming.
Not interested:
Ebbaron, Ravnica. The best settings books are 3rd party, and I'm not into second-hand MtG ported stuff. (No offense to MtG players, but it's just not my gig.)
Greetings!
Good commentary and recommendations, DM Curt!
You made me laugh with your commentary about the Adventurers of the Sword Coast book. I also own that book. Indeed, 156 pages. *Sigh* Thankfully, I am a Forgotten Realms veteran from *The Grey Box*--and I also own all of those FR# Guide manuals from back in the day. And, lots of other Waterdeep, Sword Coast, and Forgotten Realms books, supplements, and boxed sets. Geesus. The amount of lore and information is staggering.
So, I have it all. Still, though, the 5E Sword Coast book was "WHAT???" levels of underwhelming disappointment. It made me think, in rolling out a new D&D edition, and "updating" the Forgotten Realms to the new edition--this is all WOTC has to say about it? Really?
I'm reminded of the very nice 300+ page hardcover main book they did for the Forgotten Realms for 3E. They created several supplementary hardcover books a well--the white, swirled greyish-brown series of books. I have to say, for Forgotten Realms, those books were all wonderfully produced, beautiful, and densely-loaded with lore, options, and ideas. I think with that 3E series of Forgotten Realms books, they really set the bar as an example for how campaign supplements for a game world should be done. They were excellent.
Honestly, though, too--I think all of the sharp game designers, writers, and staff that produced all of those excellent books for 3E are all gone now. That absence of real knowledge, genuine expertise and strong writing skills is painfully visible throughout much of what WOTC currently produces.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 09, 2022, 10:39:01 PM
Quote from: FingerRod on August 09, 2022, 07:37:12 PM
Core three plus Xanathar's would be my pick. I think Xanathar was neutered a little, but the additions are nice. The DMG is underrated and probably the best since the original.
If you want to avoid giving money to Wizards and have a little bit of experience already, you could grab the basic rules for free and homebrew the rest. You can google the free PDF. At one point the D&D Beyond app would also allow you to access the Basic Rules for free.
Used copies of the core three books are incredibly easy to find, at least in the USA.
Indeed. Good call out. eBay is usually painted with them. I purchased mine from our FLGS before it went out of business.
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.
The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.
Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.
Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.
Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.
I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?
Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.
The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.
Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.
Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.
Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.
I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?
Dude, you have Amazon and available transportation to "head into the city," so returning the product is about as hard as getting a fast food meal at a drive-thru. If the printing offends you much, just be rid of it already and spare us the drama.
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 10, 2022, 02:45:36 PM
Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.
The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.
Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.
Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.
Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.
I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?
Dude, you have Amazon and available transportation to "head into the city," so returning the product is about as hard as getting a fast food meal at a drive-thru. If the printing offends you much, just be rid of it already and spare us the drama.
Well, if complaining about WotC's woke bullshit is considered "drama", then this entire forum site is an exercise in drama.
It's just frustrating.
Honestly I may just say fuck it and go in a different direction all together. I'm hearing great things about OSE and at least I'd be safe from WotC nonsense.
Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked <snip>
Oh for chrissake! You already bought the damn books! Suck it up and stop whining about it. It's your fault for not doing your due diligence and getting the versions you wanted in the first place. So what if some of the text is cringy? Do WORDS offend you now? Is it really that important to have a "PURE" version? Do you even realize who you sound like right now?
Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:57:57 PM
Well, if complaining about WotC's woke bullshit is considered "drama", then this entire forum site is an exercise in drama.
Ding, ding, ding!
Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.
The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.
Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.
Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.
Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.
I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?
Used copies off the internet would have been more likely to yield the true early 5E game. You could have messaged potential sellers, and asked them what printing their copy was.
I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted. You should anticipate that any brand new slipcase editions, will be the newer woke printings.
Quote from: LouProsperi on August 10, 2022, 04:10:33 PM
Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:57:57 PM
Well, if complaining about WotC's woke bullshit is considered "drama", then this entire forum site is an exercise in drama.
Ding, ding, ding!
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Quote from: Jam The MF on August 10, 2022, 07:52:09 PM
Quote from: Monero on August 10, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
Sigh, well I got my gift set of the core 3 books in, and I was excited until I looked at the Drow entry only to discover that I got the woke version of the books. I figured I was safe since I have a 10th printing pdf of the players handbook and is the non-woke version.
The slip case is nice, the books are a really cool foil cover...but it's been "corrected" with Right Think.
Now I have to decide if it's worth the trouble of returning to Amazon or not.
Going to the city this weekend with my wife and son and was planning on hitting up the LFGSs anyway. If I can find the Pure versions of the core 3 for cheap then that's what I'll do and send this woke trash back.
Can't fucking believe I can't even buy a D&D book without having woke filth infiltrate my household. I just want to play D&D, not be indoctrinated.
I mean was it really SO bad back in the day when you could safely buy whatever the fuck your wanted without fear of taking part in someone's political ideology?
Used copies off the internet would have been more likely to yield the true early 5E game. You could have messaged potential sellers, and asked them what printing their copy was.
I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted. You should anticipate that any brand new slipcase editions, will be the newer woke printings.
Yes, it was my mistake. Lesson learned. Frustrating nonetheless.
If you are looking for D&D alternatives that still feel/play like D&D OSR products are indeed a good option.
Another one that I have been enjoying is Shadow of the Demon Lord. This is actually the system I am using in place of D&D right now since my current players like d20 systems. Still trying to get them to bite on Savage Worlds, but that's a tale for another day.