I've been dipping into the old-school indie D&D scene a bit recently after not paying paying much attention to independent RPG books for a few a years. It seems I missed the baseline shift to Full Gonzo. Dungeon Crawl Classics no longer hearkens back to the early days of D&D, but to more weird and pulpy influences. The heavy metal tone of Rappan Athuk seems almost mundane compared to some newer material like the Maze of the Blue Medusa, the Veins of the Earth, Fever-Dreaming Marlinko, and the Hubris setting.

I don't have anything against weird fantasy. I quite enjoy it. But it's interesting how these artistic movements pick up steam as they go. There seems to almost be a competition among authors to out-gonzo one another. To the point where you hardly find any moderately weird content anymore - you get either your bog-standard medieval fantasy, or completely bananas stuff that makes M.A.R. Barker's Tekumel look like Dragonlance. I get the impression that in order to earn cred with the critical tastemakers these days, your setting needs to feature mountains made up of the burning corpses of cyclopses, caravans of vampiric gnomes selling the renal glands of purple worms as virility tonic, and swine godlings lording over villages built out of the wreckage of aircraft carriers. There's also a whiff of misery tourism around the scene, as Melan noted in his review of Deep Carbon Observatory.

Has this trend crested? Is it a novelty of excess more admired by aesthetes than played at the table? Or will it be an enduring school of the OSR movement going forward?

Fetishization of Erol Otus art?

I think it's the attempt to make the OSR stand out more from the mainstream D&D stuff. And I do think it works. But it has kind of turned me off a bit. Any good thing can be run into the ground.

You mention heavy metal (though I would never apply that to Rappan Atthuk, that's more like KISS), but I think that's actually what has happened here. Have you seen what has happened to metal lately? It's all either doom/death stuff or pretentious artsy crap. In other words, Lamentations of the Flame Princess.

We've always had gonzo in rpgs.

Synnibar, early 80s.

Wizards of Seattle and Paizo have mainstream D&D in the bag. It's the job of the indys and self-publishers to go nuts and roam off the reservation.

Quote from: JeremyR;1028467You mention heavy metal (though I would never apply that to Rappan Atthuk, that's more like KISS), but I think that's actually what has happened here. Have you seen what has happened to metal lately? It's all either doom/death stuff or pretentious artsy crap. In other words, Lamentations of the Flame Princess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0J3u3_800c

This is real metal. Not that doom and gloom stuff. Enjoy. The album this is from was just released today.

When? I think it was 2013-14, maybe a bit earlier . I don't know, I prefer a bit of moderation in my gonzo so I tend to avoid that stuff. I think the weirdest thing I've actually run was Venger Satanis' Liberation of the Demon Slayer - of which only the top level of the dungeon is actually useable; the rest of it the map key doesn't correspond to the room codings so I just had to sort of guess what went where.

DCC and Lamentations definitely get into the full gonzo, but I don't think it's as dominant as it can appear, cause the personalities associated with those brands are much more prolific on social media.

Castles & Crusades has its Aihrde setting, Swords & Wizardry has its Lost Lands, Basic Fantasy RPG has its Western Lands.  These are all well developed lines that I wouldn't describe as gonzo at all, though they each have their own flavor.

Also check out Stonehell, Barrowmaze, the Midderlands (the whole green premise is about the weird invading, but actually reading through the book it is a very grounded setting), Dolmenwood, and Dark Albion.  I think there's plenty of non-gonzo material still being made for the OSR.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1028468We've always had gonzo in rpgs.

Sure. But it seems to dominate the high-profile OSR stuff these days. I'd expect to see a bell curve of weirdness when it came to OSR books, but there's a big gap: A bunch of stuff that's 1-5 out of 10 on the weirdness scale (Beyond the Wall, Barrowmaze, Stonehell, Sword of Air), and then a bunch of stuff that's 10 out of 10 (Maze of the Blue Medusa, Slumbering Ursine Dunes, Veins of the Earth, Hubris). Gonzo has pretty much become its own genre at this point, and it seems to be the single largest genre in the OSR. Something in the zeitgeist seems to be pushing the envelope further and further. Is it sales? Critical buzz? Something unrelated to RPGs, like the metal music scene mentioned earlier?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1028464I think it's the attempt to make the OSR stand out more from the mainstream D&D stuff. And I do think it works. But it has kind of turned me off a bit. Any good thing can be run into the ground.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1028470Wizards of Seattle and Paizo have mainstream D&D in the bag. It's the job of the indys and self-publishers to go nuts and roam off the reservation.

That makes sense. I just wonder if the effort to stand out has pushed some of this stuff beyond the interest of all but a small fraction of even old-school gamers. It strikes me as more of a dialogue between the creators themselves at this point, rather than meeting some kind of popular demand for Full Gonzo. I suppose that's the nature of extremely niche creative endeavours.

I dunno maybe in 2004.

Quote from: under_score;1028474Also check out Stonehell...

I'm running Stonehell, and it does have some pretty gonzo stuff in it especially around the Nixthisis. But I like how it's not all the time.

Quote from: Haffrung;1028462Has this trend crested? Is it a novelty of excess more admired by aesthetes than played at the table? Or will it be an enduring school of the OSR movement going forward?

The only enduring school is that there will be more enduring schools. Look what make the OSR what it is, is the freedom of the open game license and low cost of digital distribution. Anybody with a vision and the drive can find an audience and get into the hands of folks in the time and money that one has to devote to a hobby.

You need to sit down with this list to get a sense of the diversity found. And that list is just the tip of a much larger iceberg.

Now one of the full time OSR publisher is James Raggi's Lamentations of the Flame Princess. So yes there a lot of visibility attached to those who work under his umbrella. But then there is the Pundit, Frog God Games, Barrel Rider Games, and Sine Nominae all of which have their own take and visibility.

If you want the OSR to look gonzo it is very easy to do so by looking in the place where gonzo is talked about and promoted. If you want the OSR to look like something else then look in other places. If you read Tenkar's Tavern, the OSR will come off as a bunch of minimalists due to its promotion of Swords & Wizardry Light, Continual Light, and similar RPGs like White Star.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1028468We've always had gonzo in rpgs.

Synnibar, early 80s.

If you can't play a raccoon with a Panzerfaust, there is no point in gaming.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;1028482If you can't play a raccoon with a Panzerfaust, there is no point in gaming.

I especially like how the illustrator chose to have the raccoon checking his watch instead of in some crazy action pose.

And I don't mean that ironically or sarcastically.  It's great.