TheRPGSite

Of the RPGs that were released in the 1990s, which would you say was your favorite?

New editions of games released previously to 1990 do not count.

Early 90's it'd be Rifts without question; my first character back then was a Rogue Scientist whose most useful skills seemed to be Prowl, Read Sensory Instruments, followed by some engineering or electrical skill that turned really expensive hardware into non-functional junk before the rest of the party raided a place.

These days its a Ley Line Walker whose brother ran off to fight the good fight at the Siege at Tolkeen and died there. His day job is transporting people and things via rift teleportation and he got involved with the current party because they needed his services. He annoys the heck out of them though because he's got a strong aversion to killing (magic net is his go to spell when a fight breaks out), its a pain hauling people back to civilization to face trial (and because he's Scrupulous he won't LET any of the party kill helpless prisoners and holds the threat of withholding his 'mend the broken' spell that saves a ton on armor repairs from those who do) and often uses his healing spells on injured enemies once they've been captured/surrendered. On the plus side, he's raked in the credits on confiscated (and usually undamaged) armor and weapons.

The other biggie from that era that I played the heck out of and started my longest campaign ever with (going on twenty years now depending on how you count it... we've had several complete player/PC turn-overs but the world has persisted uninterrupted to the point that 99% of the NPCs these days are retired PCs) was Mage the Ascension (2nd Edition; Revised in 2000 was too dark and gritty and my world had already gone through the end of days and came out the other side before those books were even released).

In college I also played some 2e-era AD&D (and got my insane 3d6 in order rolled in front of the DM character with his Str 17, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 16 and max hit points rolled at first level... who could never roll above a three whenever he tried using a magic sword... he even broke a magic sword designed to cut through magic barriers on a magic barrier... but as soon as either fumbled the magic sword out of his hand or threw it away in frustration and drew his battered old starting blade his next roll was ALWAYS an 18-20. The DM eventually decided (after destroying the fourth consecutive magic sword via multiple critical fumbles in the same fight) that my fighter was just born so utterly non-magical that he could harm stuff that could only be hurt with magical weapons anyway because I literally sucked the magic out of them when I hit.

Buck Rogers XXVc, of course. :p

Hmm, Shadowrun 1st was 1989, but 2nd was 1992, and I consider Shadowrun definitely one of the 90's games.

For me Shadowrun and Rifts occupy the top slot.

Others in no particular order:
Vampire: The Dark Ages
Werewolf: The Apocalypse
Deadlands
Kult (for inspiration)
Jovian Chronicles
Heavy Gear
Fading Suns
Witchcraft
Earthdawn
Underground (ideas for Shadowrun)

Prince Valiant doesn't really count because it came out a year too early. But I'll nominate it anyway because it is awesome and is more like the first 90's game than like the last 80's game.

Beyond that I'm kind of surprised at how few games I own (or even know of) that were published as 1st editions in the 90's

Castle Falkenstein and Mage the Ascension

Ughh. This is like picking a favorite child.

1. Rifts. Played the hell out of it.
2. Earthdawn. Ran a great, long running campaign.
3. Deadlands. Had a good GM who was into the time period the game is set.

Aquelarre, not for the system so much but the setting, content, art, flavor, etc. I'm looking forward to the English version when it finally arrives

Looking over this list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_pen_and_paper_role-playing_games#1990s), I don't see many others that I have positive feelings or interest in, such as:

* Fudge, mainly because I mostly like Steffan O'Sullivan.
* Prime Directive, just because it's set in the Star Fleet Battles universe and I like SFB, but of course I'd tend to refer to the later GURPS version of it.

Castle Falkenstein
Over the Edge
Unknown Armies

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1034461Earthdawn

Good pick, not my favorite but worth, at the very least, a honorable mention.

I think the only game I've run/played that was first published marginally in the 1990s was Traveller: The New Era (1990), which barely counts as a new game - I ran it online pbem & a bit tabletop ca 2000. For me the 1990s was definitely the Dark Age of Gaming after the 1980s golden age. I ran the setting of NightLife (1989) but using AD&D based rules, likewise Cyberpunk 2020. Ran a mix of 2e & 1e AD&D. But it was definitely the worst period for RPGs, when cool games like PARANOIA and d6 Star Wars (and Traveller) came to an end, Classic D&D ended, AD&D nearly ended, etc.

Amber
Aquelarre
Bloodlust, CORPS
CP 2020?
Fading Suns,
Feng Shui
Fudge
Sengoku
Pavillion Noir?
Talislanta
Unknown Armies
Usagi Yojimbo
Witchcraft

BTW, Skarg, Aquelarre is out for backers;).

Feng Shui (1st edition). A real breath of fresh air compared to my gaming to that date (it was 1997), and still one of my favourites.

It has got to be Amber Diceless. The fact that I'm still playing it now and I'm no longer playing any other 1990's rpgs says it all.

Amber Diceless as a clear favorite, but I also enjoyed several others. (Buck Rogers XXVC and Castle Falkenstein immediately come to mind.) I liked the worlds of TORG but not the game mechanics. Dragonlance 5th Age (with the SAGA system) was a neat alternate to D&D. I wanted to like Alternity, but somehow it never quite clicked for me.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1034458Prince Valiant doesn't really count because it came out a year too early. But I'll nominate it anyway because it is awesome and is more like the first 90's game than like the last 80's game.

Beyond that I'm kind of surprised at how few games I own (or even know of) that were published as 1st editions in the 90's

I'm there too.  I don't know that I own anything that was first published in the 90's.  I have played a couple since, but overall it seems like a pretty sparse era for anything interesting mechanically.  There were interesting new takes on settings, but usually saddled with inappropriate systems.....and I'm not much into playing in other people's settings.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1034458Prince Valiant doesn't really count because it came out a year too early. But I'll nominate it anyway because it is awesome and is more like the first 90's game than like the last 80's game.

Beyond that I'm kind of surprised at how few games I own (or even know of) that were published as 1st editions in the 90's

I'm the same way with Cyberpunk 2020 - it was published in 1988, but it holds center place in my 90's-era gaming memories.

According to those rules, nothing.  Except for some occasional AD&D, I spent the whole of the 90's playing games that were released in the '80s, or the '90s release was a new edition, such as the D&D Rules Cyclopedia ('91).  

I mostly played 4th ed. Fantasy Hero, which was the first truly unified version of FH, with its version synced with the Champions 4th ed. "Big Blue Book".  FH 1st ed. was a late '80s game, but was a very different game than what came later.

Mage the Ascension probably takes this top slot. Although, there is something to be said about Legend of the 5 Rings.

The SAGA Rules System (Dragonlance: Fifth Age and Marvel Super Heroes, although I never used the latter version in play).

2e D&D (Spelljammer, Darksun mostly), Cyberpunk 2020, Vampire, Mage, WEG Star Wars.

Nothing, I guess. The way I remember it, the 90s were not very good for RPGs. The early 90s was a good time for buying new modules for games that were mostly published in the 80s. There were some interesting new games too, but maybe not my cup of tea. But then, Magic the Gathering hit, and everyone and their aunts were suddenly playing card games. It led to a crash for many RPG publishers, partially because they wanted to join the card circus and then got burned. So, for me both the 80s and the 2000s were better.

Fading Suns
Planescape
Gamma World 4e

Unknown Armies

Quote from: Kiero;1034475Feng Shui (1st edition). A real breath of fresh air compared to my gaming to that date (it was 1997), and still one of my favourites.

Quote from: Simon W;1034481It has got to be Amber Diceless. The fact that I'm still playing it now and I'm no longer playing any other 1990's rpgs says it all.

Quote from: tenbones;1034504Cyberpunk 2020

CP 2020, Amber and Feng Shui are all from the 90ies? For some reason, I thought they're all one year early or too late:)!
I need to add them to my list, since those are 90ies games I'd gladly play;).

Heroquest, of course. 1989, but close enough I hope.

Quote from: Celestial;1034454Buck Rogers XXVc, of course. :p

This

We played a lot of TORG (though apparently the GM often used GURPS so don't know how much or little of the system we engaged). Great setting though.

Feng Shui is another good one.

Even though I never ran it, I played in a lot of Vampire and WOD campaigns, so I'd have to include that too.

For looser and beer and pretzels play, Tales from the Floating Vagabond was a lot of fun (though not sure how well it holds up).

If it qualifies, my favorite 90s RPG is the Ravenloft setting. Technically the AD&D came before in 1983, but the 2E setting box set was released in 1990 (and the setting overall felt very 90s to me) and I tend to see it as a new game built on the concept laid out in the original module.

I played a LOT of Deadlands in the late 90s, and a lot of GURPS 3rd Edition. In Nomine was well regarded by my friends and I, although I didn't play it a whole lot.

Not and RPG, but I played a whole lot of GorkaMorka int he last few years of the decade.

Over the Edge - hands down. Fantastic setting, extraordinary (and simple!) rules. Have played the crap out of it, well into the 00s and beyond.

Rifts and Ars Magica.

Quote from: Ulairi;1034566and Ars Magica.

Fantastic game (and setting), but didn't it come out first in 87? But the best edition (IMO), 3rd, is of course 1992 :)

Quote from: AsenRG;1034509CP 2020, Amber and Feng Shui are all from the 90ies? For some reason, I thought they're all one year early or too late:)!
I need to add them to my list, since those are 90ies games I'd gladly play;).

Cyberpunk was released in 1988, Cyberpunk 2020 was in 1990.
Amber Diceless was 1991.
Feng Shui 1st ed was released in 1996.

I generally preferred the 1980s and 2000s for game design. I still don't like Shadowrun or dice pools much, and there was a lot of same-ness in mechanics of many games. Plus there was the terrible tendency to have linear story modules broken up into a line of scenes.

I actually didn't like Amber Diceless when it first came out, but I've come around and now enjoy it. (I still have some big issues with parts of it, but there are a lot of good features.)

This was a really hard one. I can't think of many games that came out in 90's that I like and was not just a new edition of an older game. But here is a few.

Mutant Chronicles
Gemini
Lord of the Rings Adventure Game

I'm one-note on this, but my favorite RPG of the '90s was the one I probably played most:

Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game.

I noticed that, like a lot of others, many of the games I was considering are technically from the later '80s, but here are three more that fit in there fairly high:

Heavy Gear
Vampire: The Masquerade
Castle Falkenstein

Unfortunately, I usually get stuck RPing in some kind of D&D-ish fantasy thing these days. I am playing in a semi-regular DC Heroes 3rd ed. game as well, though, so I won't complain too much.

That's a toughie...

I would like to say Champions: New Millenium, which is Champions in name only, but if it doesn't count...

CP 2020.

Shadowrun

Hmm...based on this listing of 1990's rpgs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_pen_and_paper_role-playing_games#1990s) I had fun with Earthdawn, Fading Suns, and 7th Sea.

Quote from: Spellslinging Sellsword;1034636Hmm...based on this listing of 1990's rpgs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_pen_and_paper_role-playing_games#1990s) I had fun with Earthdawn, Fading Suns, and 7th Sea.

Interesting list. I just realized that I haven't bought a new system since 2011.

What I played the most: Vampire (which explains the brain damage.)

My favorite 90's game then: Fuzion. Yes, the game Cyberpunk people hated (becuase it wasn't Interlock) and Hero people hated (because it wasn't Hero.) It reminded me of D6 (Att + Skiill >= target number) without truckloads of dice. It didn't do true superhero games well, but I had FASERIP for that anyway. It was a light universal game that was easy to GM. Actually looking at it now, it hasn't aged as badly as some of the other 90's systems and would work fine with a few improvements.  

My favorite 90's game now: Fading Suns. Awesome stuff. But I'd replace the system with Stars Without Number, for a glorious 90's baroque sci-fi trip filled with ham-fisted LynchDune quotes. Not in the mood?! Mood's a thing for cattle and love play, not fighting!

Quote from: jhkim;1034568Amber Diceless was 1991.

I actually didn't like Amber Diceless when it first came out, but I've come around and now enjoy it. (I still have some big issues with parts of it, but there are a lot of good features.)

My old group never played Amber Diceless, but we used it as a source book in addition to the Visual Guide to Castle Amber. This is mainly because Amberites had already been integrated into the AD&D 1e campaign for several years. The campaign originally had a Moorcockian theme but adding in Zelazny's Amber worked pretty well. So far as the 90s go, buying that game was definitely money well spent.

Rifts, Earthdawn, TORG Star Wars from WEG. Is it just me or did the 90s have some of the best rpgs around imo.

Quote from: Spellslinging Sellsword;1034636Hmm...based on this listing of 1990's rpgs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_pen_and_paper_role-playing_games#1990s) I had fun with Earthdawn, Fading Suns, and 7th Sea.

Hmm, from that list, the only games I played at all were Fudge, Deadlands, and 7th Sea, and I think but one or two sessions of each, though I purchased almost everything for Deadlands and 7th Sea. I guess Deadlands. I didn't play Fudge until 2003 or so and ultimately I ended up disliking it.

The 90s were supposed to be a horrible time for rpgs. Funny, my three favorite games of all time came from the 90s. Underground. Over The Edge and Waste World.

The 1990s was my fallow period for gaming. I think Earthdawn is the only one I've really played from that era, apart from updated editions of earlier games. Fudge too - I tend to think of it as an early 2000s game but it is a 90s vintage.

At the time, Dark Conspiracy. It was basically a horror game using GDW's house system (used in the 2nd edition of Twilight 2000 and Traveller: The New Era), which basically meant superior firepower was an option to most baddies

In some ways it was kinda Phantasm II the RPG with bits of Intruders thrown in

Quote from: Ulairi;1034566. . . Ars Magica.

Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;1034567Fantastic game (and setting), but didn't it come out first in 87? But the best edition (IMO), 3rd, is of course 1992 :)

Yes, 1987.

Quote from: LouGoncey;1034668The 90s were supposed to be a horrible time for rpgs. Funny, my three favorite games of all time came from the 90s. Underground. Over The Edge and Waste World.

Horrible for people who only played games first published during the 90s (instead of ignoring new RPG systems and happily continuing to play their favorite system from whenever), and who didn't find a system they liked.

I have no idea what the three you liked are like - ?

Earthdawn
Shadowrun
7th Sea
Rifts
2nd edition D&D
Deadlands

uhh... Talislanta too. DERP. Lots of Talislanta.

Heavy Gear--by far and away.
PARANOIA
Twilight:2000 2nd ed. was loads of fun, but I don't think it technically qualifies?

Would have liked to play more of:
Shadowrun
Over The Edge

Should have played less of:
Rifts
AD&D2e

While technically out of contest, because of being a new edition of a 80s game, Cyberpunk 2020 sure was - and still is- a favorite.

Quote from: Heavy Josh;1034743Heavy Gear--by far and away.
PARANOIA
Twilight:2000 2nd ed. was loads of fun, but I don't think it technically qualifies?

Would have liked to play more of:
Shadowrun
Over The Edge

Should have played less of:
Rifts
AD&D2e

Paranoia and Twilight 2000 were both first published in 1984.
Shadowrun was 1989.
AD&D counts as 1974 in this thread.

• Vampire: The Masquerade.
• Cyberpunk 2020
• Alternity: Star*Drive
• Kult
• Dangerous Journeys
[strike]Shadowrun[/strike]

Quote from: jhkim;1034568Cyberpunk was released in 1988, Cyberpunk 2020 was in 1990.

Doesn't that make it "new edition of an old game":)?

QuoteAmber Diceless was 1991.
Feng Shui 1st ed was released in 1996.

OK, I'm glad I was wrong about them;)!

QuoteI generally preferred the 1980s and 2000s for game design. I still don't like Shadowrun or dice pools much, and there was a lot of same-ness in mechanics of many games. Plus there was the terrible tendency to have linear story modules broken up into a line of scenes.

I actually don't care about the decade the game is publushed in...as evidenced by me not knowing some of my favourite games, including Pavillion Noir* of all games:D! All this thread is proving to me is that there were good games in all decades, and bad games in all decades.
But if a game is fun, I'm going to play it:p. Shadowrun-style dicepools are no fun, IMO, so I'm not queuing up to play this.

*I have a PDF of a second printing, which is from the 2000s. But I also know that the first printing was bought off and wasn't reprinted for years, so...maybe?
 
Either way, I must add Bloodlust, CORPS, Fading Suns, Fudge, Talislanta, Usagi Yojimbo, and Witchcraft to the list;).
Technically, I hear only good things about Kult and Nephilim, but I've never played them long enough to even learn what they're about. So I won't add those.

In the early nineties, Cyberpunk 2020 was my Referee rite of passage.  I ran Dungeons & Dragons prior, but only pre-written dungeon modules.  Cyberpunk demanded creativity, adaptability and judgement.  Important Referee skills I had not needed before.

In the mid nineties, Werewolf the Apocalypse was a favourite once we discarded the tree-hugging hippy crap and played it like the blood-soaked small press comic it was supposed to be.  Played straight the game is new age junk.  Playing it as a gory power trip with nigh-invulnerable wolf-men tearing the limbs from evil executive mutants in a shadowy urban hellhole is a lot of fun.

In the late nineties, Marvel SAGA.  It is still my favourite superhero game despite using cards instead of dice.

If 2020, which was a massive departure from the original Cuberpunk game doesn't count, then Feng Shui is the game.

I always thought Rifts came out in 89.  It's actually 90.  Huhn, cool.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1034439Of the RPGs that were released in the 1990s, which would you say was your favorite?

New editions of games released previously to 1990 do not count.

None.

Underground

Over the Edge

Unknown Armies

CyberGeneration

Castle Falkenstein

The odder and less-explored bits of the World of Darkness: Demon Hunter X, Kindred of the East, etc.

Hands down easily my fav was Shadowrun (2e I think, but it was my first clash with it).

Shadowrun would be my first choice followed by Vampire the Masquerade. I loved Shadowrun when it came out, i think that i regret that i didn't played as much as i would like.

Dream Park RPG and Jovian Chronicles RPG were the only ones.

(I'd include Cyberpunk 2020 and Mekton Zeta and Star Wars RPG Revised and Expanded, but they were all continuations of earlier games.)

Big Eyes Small Mouth, The Sailor Moon Role-Playing Game and Resource Book, and Vampire: The Masquerade.

Legend of the Five Rings RPG (1e, of course). Hands down one of my favorite games to run.

Deadlands: Hell on Earth.

So, when are we crowning Mike Pondsmith? =P

Quote from: artikid;1034960So, when are we crowning Mike Pondsmith? =P

Your call, but King Pondsmith sounds better than King Trump;).

And that reminds me to nominate Sengoku. It's a better Japanese RPG than either L5R or Bushido, and the first edition was from 1999, it seems:D!

Quote from: NeonAce;1034592Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game.

It was a far better game than it had any right to be.  I had a successful two year campaign and it held up very well.

The quality and balance in the supplements plummeted after Secrets of Shadowloo though.  If I were to Referee it again there would be no mutant animals, no cyborgs, no jujitsu and no cartwheel kicks.  There definitely wouldn't be any mutant animal cyborgs jujitsu fighters performing cartwheel kicks!

Quote from: Malleustein;1034986It was a far better game than it had any right to be.  I had a successful two year campaign and it held up very well.

The quality and balance in the supplements plummeted after Secrets of Shadowloo though.  If I were to Referee it again there would be no mutant animals, no cyborgs, no jujitsu and no cartwheel kicks.  There definitely wouldn't be any mutant animal cyborgs jujitsu fighters performing cartwheel kicks!

Mutant jujitsu fighters peforming cartwheel kicks is pretty much what Street Fighter is supposed to be:D!

I played quite a bit of Earthdawn, Alternity, and LUG's Star Trek. I enjoyed all of them.

Quote from: AsenRG;1034988Mutant jujitsu fighters peforming cartwheel kicks is pretty much what Street Fighter is supposed to be:D!

It is. But the rules for these were poorly written.  In combination they were an abomination.

Most of the 90s I was playing newer editions of older games. The only released in 90s game I played was Dangerous Journeys/Mythus.

Quote from: Malleustein;1035003It is. But the rules for these were poorly written.

Well, it was written by White Wolf. That should be par for the course;).

Of the games strictly published in the 90's and Ive played in the 90's there's only one Earthdawn. I will give Shadowrun an honourable mention, for while it was published in 89' my FLGS didn't get it in stock until 90' and we played it right through the 90's

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1034788If 2020, which was a massive departure from the original Cuberpunk game doesn't count,

How was 2020 different from the original 1988 Cyberpunk?

Over the Edge by a country mile.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked Heavy Gear. I still love Ghislain Barbe's illustrations.

Quote from: artikid;1034960So, when are we crowning Mike Pondsmith? =P

Bow down.

Quote from: AsenRG;1035030Well, it was written by White Wolf. That should be par for the course;).

The core book had White Wolf's usual "storytelling" nonsense and took liberties with characters and setting, but the rules were surprisingly good.  Thought was put into the fighting system and the vast majority of special manoeuvres were balanced.  The same can be said of Secrets of Shadoloo, which I suspect was material originally intended for the core book or written at the same time.

Almost everything in the supplements that came afterwards was of stupid, imbalanced gibberish.  The decline in quality is staggering and the absence of play-testing is glaringly obvious.

Quote from: Kashirigi;1035099I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked Heavy Gear. I still love Ghislain Barbe's illustrations.

Oh man, so much this.  Barbe's run at DP9 for Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles is the bar I measure all mecha illustrations.  And the art direction/layout of the Heavy Gear books was just amazing in the early-to-mid era of DP9.  So helpful in evoking the setting, and generally easy to read.

Honorable mentions to:

Whispering Vault

SLA Industries

Armageddon (Remember that short-lived fad of RPGs based on the Biblical Apocalypse (i.e. 666, the Anti-Christ, all that stuff they taught you at Good News Club)? This was the cool one with some of the best art of Tim Bradstreet's career and a neat future history of the Nazi-like Army of Revelations. )

Brave New World (OK, more of a guilty pleasure but it was the one supers RPG to unabashedly go for an Image/Liefield vibe which is sorta fun in retrospect)

One of the weirder games I was into back then was Immortal: Invisible War. It was... ambitious... I guess, in a White Wolf-y kind of way. Couldn't really get the clunky mechanics to work, though. Nonetheless, I still own the book and enjoy skimming through it from time to time.

Quote from: WanderingMonster;1035158One of the weirder games I was into back then was Immortal: Invisible War. It was... ambitious... I guess, in a White Wolf-y kind of way. Couldn't really get the clunky mechanics to work, though. Nonetheless, I still own the book and enjoy skimming through it from time to time.

we played that! a bit. Dont remember much about it

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1035150Armageddon (Remember that short-lived fad of RPGs based on the Biblical Apocalypse (i.e. 666, the Anti-Christ, all that stuff they taught you at Good News Club)? This was the cool one with some of the best art of Tim Bradstreet's career and a neat future history of the Nazi-like Army of Revelations. )

Loved this one and Nephilim but sadly I wasn't able to get either past the first session or two so didn't count them.

Amber was published in the 1990s, but it was being played several years earlier, in the '80s.

I played Mage the Ascension and Over the Edge but I must add that looking back, it was not the decade for me as far as tabletop rpgs are concerned.

Videogames OTOH...

Quote from: RPGPundit;1035596Amber was published in the 1990s, but it was being played several years earlier, in the '80s.

But could you obtain the rules unless you were in one of those games? If not, for the majority of us "year of publication" would be what matters.

Realistically, any game published in the 90ies might have been in development since the 80ies, but we don't need to check all of its history when we know the date of publication.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1034439Of the RPGs that were released in the 1990s, which would you say was your favorite?

New editions of games released previously to 1990 do not count.

Do games originally released in a foreign language in 1999 count?

Because if so: Agone.

i'm going to change my choice.  I've re-looked through my Champions New Millennium stuff, and although it's BASED off an older edition, it uses an entirely different engine and changes the world enough to be it's own thing.  So I'm going with Champions: New Millennium.

Quote from: Hastur-The-Unnameable;1035695Do games originally released in a foreign language in 1999 count?

Because if so: Agone.

I'd say if we are excluding games where an earlier edition was first published before 1990, then a game that had any published edition (whether in English or some other language) in the 1990s counts.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1035596Amber was published in the 1990s, but it was being played several years earlier, in the '80s.

I believe that, but I note that your OP specified:

Quote from: RPGPundit;1034439Of the RPGs that were released in the 1990s, which would you say was your favorite?

New editions of games released previously to 1990 do not count.

I think release date is a much better known quantity for most games.

Quote from: AsenRG;1035689But could you obtain the rules unless you were in one of those games? If not, for the majority of us "year of publication" would be what matters.

Realistically, any game published in the 90ies might have been in development since the 80ies, but we don't need to check all of its history when we know the date of publication.

Well, most people couldn't.

I really just wanted to point this out to show the extent of just how innovative Amber was.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1036053Well, most people couldn't.

I really just wanted to point this out to show the extent of just how innovative Amber was.

Oh, on that account, I agree:)! I just took it as an "Amber doesn't count as a 90ies game" statement.
It seems jhkim took it the same way, too;).

A close friend of mine ran us through an Amber campaign that lasted about 6-solid months of playing multiple times a week. I will admit, it was a HUGELY innovative game and inspired. I still have my copy and I've always thought about possibly running it. Maybe I'll give it a looksee over the weekend...

My favorite games from the 1990s were all first published earlier (1978, 1981, 1982, and 1987). All those games had multiple editions including some 1990s editions and 1990s supplements. But according to Pundit's criteria, the answer would be none. In fact looking at the link someone else provided there are no games first published in the 1990s that even rise to the level of mild interest, much less a favorite. Of course that list doesn't include Barbarians of Lemuria (published as a free edition circa 2002) nor Honor & Intrigue (2011) so it isn't a complete list.

Also the first published distinction seems a bit arbitrary, especially for those of us that never owned, played, or GMed the original version of some pre-1990s game, but only used an edition(s) published in the 1990s.

Millennium's End,  Shatterzone and Kult

Vampire the Masquerade!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1036053Well, most people couldn't.

I really just wanted to point this out to show the extent of just how innovative Amber was.

Why is a Mother May I storygame considered innovative?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1036168Why is a Mother May I storygame considered innovative?

Good question. After all the mechanics of the stat auction, which is probably the most innovative part of the rules, was covered by Adam Smith back in 1776.

Kult. Loved Kult. We played a kind of 'Weaveworld' setting with it. Tried Nephilim about the same time (93-94) but I could never completely get a handle on how it was supposed to be played (either mechanics or atmosphere).

Has anyone played Principia Malefex? I haven't, I just wondered if anyone had. I have been told it captured pre-millenial (UK) society and amped it into raw horror.

The games we actually played...

Earthdawn
Deadlands
Mage
Planescape (Well not a game - but we tried it with several systems other than D&D)

Those we loved the idea of but never really seemed to know how to play...

Unknown Armies
SLA Industries.

Back in the 90s I was fascinated by the little bits of info about Kult that I gleaned from reviews and chatter, but at the time I was living in a game desert and I could never find or buy the actual game anywhere.

I understand the current edition uses Apocalypse World. Ugh.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1036595... I understand the current edition uses Apocalypse World. Ugh.

Yeah. That disappointed me. I like Apocalypse World for a change of pace, but I would have loved to see a more trad undertaking on it. I may still check it out.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1036168Why is a Mother May I storygame considered innovative?

I have no idea. Run properly, Amber isn't a mother-may-I game.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037018I have no idea. Run properly, Amber isn't a mother-may-I game.

So there's a randomizing element to it then?  Does it use cards, because I don't see it use dice.  I must have a defective copy of the game, then.  Missing some pages, obviously.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1037024So there's a randomizing element to it then?  Does it use cards, because I don't see it use dice.  I must have a defective copy of the game, then.  Missing some pages, obviously.

This is why the Amber RPG ended up being a sourcebook for our AD&D 1e campaign. The group thought the book had some nice information, but weren't too keen on "Diceless". Players may not be able to control how the dice rolls, but rolling dice is still literally putting the character's fate in the hands of the players, rather than having it dictated by a narrator.

Any game can be "Mother May I". Mother May I is a habit of bad GMs, not a systems feature.

Quote from: Krimson;1037049This is why the Amber RPG ended up being a sourcebook for our AD&D 1e campaign. The group thought the book had some nice information, but weren't too keen on "Diceless". Players may not be able to control how the dice rolls, but rolling dice is still literally putting the character's fate in the hands of the players, rather than having it dictated by a narrator.

This is a pathetic anti-Amber argument, God rest Wujcik's soul.

Quote from: Brad;1037417This is a pathetic anti-Amber argument, God rest Wujcik's soul.

What Anti? I bought the books. They got used. He got my money. We didn't use the system. So what? We were already using Amberites in our games years before that game came out anyway.

Quote from: Krimson;1037422What Anti? I bought the books. They got used. He got my money. We didn't use the system. So what? We were already using Amberites in our games years before that game came out anyway.

I dunno, I was super drunk when I responded to that. On topic-> Amber is my favorite 1990s game.

Quote from: Brad;1037546I dunno, I was super drunk when I responded to that. On topic-> Amber is my favorite 1990s game.

That's okay. This is my go to place for drunken posting as well. :D

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1037024So there's a randomizing element to it then?  Does it use cards, because I don't see it use dice.  I must have a defective copy of the game, then.  Missing some pages, obviously.

Chess doesn't have a 'randomizing element' to it and yet it's not a "mother may I" game.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037848Chess doesn't have a 'randomizing element' to it and yet it's not a "mother may I" game.

Personally, I realized that you could play Amber as a strategy game. Selling it to my players was something completely different. But as I mentioned in a previous game, we used the fluff as source material, and I happily bought Mister Wujcik's books. I'd love to see a game revisit the setting with more traditional mechanics. I would throw money at that.

The problem is that, as wonderful and amazing as it was in other respects, the Amber book did not do the best job of showing really clearly how the mechanics were intended to work.

In Lords of Olympus, I went out of my way to explain it with much more detail so that GMs got that it is definitely NOT a question of "mother may I", at least not any more so than any other regular RPG.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038006The problem is that, as wonderful and amazing as it was in other respects, the Amber book did not do the best job of showing really clearly how the mechanics were intended to work.

In Lords of Olympus, I went out of my way to explain it with much more detail so that GMs got that it is definitely NOT a question of "mother may I", at least not any more so than any other regular RPG.

My gaming groups never had a problem understanding how Amber worked; in fact, when I described the mechanics for character advancement one of the players stated, "Wow, sounds like you really have to roleplay your ass off." That doesn't necessarily dispute the clarity remark here, but then again some of the games I had no problem understanding when I was 14 are nearly incomprehensible now, and I don't know why that is.

Regardless, yes, Amber is an actual roleplaying game, and the fact that it doesn't use dice in no way undermines that statement. What's stupid is how so many people decry the lack of a "randomization" element, yet fudge die rolls like no tomorrow whenever they play other games. Amber just puts the randomization firmly within the DMs control instead of pretending dice are dictating events.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1037408Any game can be "Mother May I". Mother May I is a habit of bad GMs, not a systems feature.

True, but Amber is built around Mother-May-I.  To do anything you have to ask the GM if it's possible, and THEY get to decide Yay or Nay, not a dice roll, not a card flip not anything other than the Viking Hat Arbitrator.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037848Chess doesn't have a 'randomizing element' to it and yet it's not a "mother may I" game.

Chess is about planning and tactics.  The board never changes, the moves are limited because each piece has a specific purpose.

Amber is not.  Amber has no mechanics other than Asking The Gm for Permission.  Despite the fact that as written, if your opponent has a higher stat that they're using, they win.  No argument.  Just because you have a better stat in something else, doesn't they'll change their tactics or 'arena' just cuz you're better somewhere else.  Unless the GM allows you to.  Amber is Mother-May-I, that's all there is to it.

Don't let your love of the game fool you into thinking it is anything other than that.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1038115Chess is about planning and tactics.  The board never changes, the moves are limited because each piece has a specific purpose.

Amber is not.  Amber has no mechanics other than Asking The Gm for Permission.  

Amber is absolutely about strategy and tactics. The things the attributes do are fixed, and the whole mechanic is about applying the right attribute or power in the right way.

QuoteDon't let your love of the game fool you into thinking it is anything other than that.

I've played Amber for literally four decades now. I've also written my own amber-derived RPG. I'm quite clear on how it actually works. You're the one who's wrong, and I'm betting you've let your dislike of the game fool you into thinking it's just all arbitrary.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038334Amber is absolutely about strategy and tactics. The things the attributes do are fixed, and the whole mechanic is about applying the right attribute or power in the right way.

Which the GM arbitrates as per their whim, and which each table will be completely different.  Hence "Mother-May-I?"  It's really that simple.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038334I've played Amber for literally four decades now. I've also written my own amber-derived RPG. I'm quite clear on how it actually works. You're the one who's wrong, and I'm betting you've let your dislike of the game fool you into thinking it's just all arbitrary.

All that tells me is that you have an investment in this game and refuse to even see that there are other interpretations.  I base my evaluation on facts and evidence.  And as long as the only randomizing agent is the GM (who is biased as fuck, due to the fact that they are human.) then it's "Mother May I?"  It seems given the various interactions you've posted that's what you obviously like in your games, to be in ultimate control of the situation and it's outcomes.

I love the Amber book series, but I'm under no illusion that Eric Wujcik had the any grasp on the stories.  Evidence suggests that he didn't.  Namely because Zelazny has outright said that they are written in the form of the 'unreliable narrator', which means that the game is built on a misunderstood lie.  Nothing in the game is 'true' as most settings should be.

Disregard this as you like, but facts are facts, this is not opinion.

Played the heck out of Werewolf: The Apocalypse, and by extension Werewolf: Wild West, Deadlands was played a lot as well. However, our "go to" game was CP 2020 though.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1038485Which the GM arbitrates as per their whim, and which each table will be completely different.  Hence "Mother-May-I?"  It's really that simple.

Only a shitty GM like you.

QuoteAll that tells me is that you have an investment in this game and refuse to even see that there are other interpretations.  I base my evaluation on facts and evidence.

No, you base it on ridiculous libel and delusion.

QuoteAnd as long as the only randomizing agent is the GM (who is biased as fuck, due to the fact that they are human.) then it's "Mother May I?"

By that logic any RPG where the GM has any kind of power at all (which is to say, ALL real RPGs) is "mother may I".

QuoteI love the Amber book series, but I'm under no illusion that Eric Wujcik had the any grasp on the stories.  Evidence suggests that he didn't.  Namely because Zelazny has outright said that they are written in the form of the 'unreliable narrator', which means that the game is built on a misunderstood lie.  Nothing in the game is 'true' as most settings should be.

Disregard this as you like, but facts are facts, this is not opinion.

Well, the FACT is that Roger Zelazny himself disagreed with you. Him and Erick were friends, and Roger not only supported the Amber RPG, he played it.

Also, the notion that you don't think Erick understood the 'unreliable narrator' element suggests to me that you've never actually even read the Amber RPG books.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038334Amber is absolutely about strategy and tactics. The things the attributes do are fixed, and the whole mechanic is about applying the right attribute or power in the right way.

Which is to say, it's like all other RPGs out there:).

QuoteYou're the one who's wrong, and I'm betting you've let your dislike of the game fool you into thinking it's just all arbitrary.

That wouldn't be exactly the first game where Cupcake misunderstands. All the OSR gamers on this site can attest to it, I think;).
(It's funny how I'm not sure whether to include myself in this list).

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038669Only a shitty GM like you.

I don't 'play/run' mother may I games.  I have, however, been in several Amber games back in my early 20s and EVERY ONE of them who claimed to be an Amber GM, and they arbitrated the game completely differently than each other.  As in wildly different.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038669No, you base it on ridiculous libel and delusion.

Why are you taking this so personally?  I understand the truth sucks, but being upset isn't going to change it.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038669By that logic any RPG where the GM has any kind of power at all (which is to say, ALL real RPGs) is "mother may I".

Well, yes, there is a degree of that to all role playing games, but picking on a D&D like system, which has a D20 as a determination agent, you roll it and IT determines whether or not an action occurs.  Now, whether or not the DM/GM/Storyteller agrees or not with that roll does not matter.  The fact is, that the dice is the final arbitrator.

Amber does not use that, it doesn't use anything at all, but the Story Teller to determine success or failure.  YOU decide the success.  "Mother May I succeed at 'This'?"

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038669Well, the FACT is that Roger Zelazny himself disagreed with you. Him and Erick were friends, and Roger not only supported the Amber RPG, he played it.

You've never given friends passes because they've used one of your products for something you think is cool?  I know I have.  And given how much you shill your own books, I have a hard time believing you wouldn't.  Hell, you try and justify all sorts of things with DCC, because you love it.  And I'm not slamming your love of these games, I don't know them at all.  Maybe your ideas are great, maybe they're not.  I don't know.

You're human though, you can be wrong.  Just like you accuse me of being.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1038669Also, the notion that you don't think Erick understood the 'unreliable narrator' element suggests to me that you've never actually even read the Amber RPG books.

If you actually read the novels, which is written in the first person perspective by two different 'narrators', Corwin and his son Merlin, you'll find that they contradict each other in each of the series at several points.  That makes them 'unreliable narrators', which means the entire RPG is built on a flawed premise.

Quote from: AsenRG;1038946Which is to say, it's like all other RPGs out there:).

Citation needed.

Quote from: AsenRG;1038946That wouldn't be exactly the first game where Cupcake misunderstands. All the OSR gamers on this site can attest to it, I think;).
(It's funny how I'm not sure whether to include myself in this list).

Oh, Buttercup, you're so sweet trying to steal my schtick.  That you call yourself an 'OSR' gamer when you're younger than me, is adorable.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1039082Amber does not use that, it doesn't use anything at all, but the Story Teller to determine success or failure.  YOU decide the success.  "Mother May I succeed at 'This'?"

Only if the person running it hasn't got the slightest clue how it's actually meant to work. If they do, they'll know there's very strict structures as far as determining whether something should succeed or not, with only a tiny degree of GM decision making not notably larger than what you get playing D&D.

QuoteIf you actually read the novels, which is written in the first person perspective by two different 'narrators', Corwin and his son Merlin, you'll find that they contradict each other in each of the series at several points.  That makes them 'unreliable narrators', which means the entire RPG is built on a flawed premise.

I notice you haven't answered the question: Did you even read the Amber RPG books?
Because your repeating this gross error of assumption suggests that you haven't read them at all.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1039082Well, yes, there is a degree of that to all role playing games, but picking on a D&D like system, which has a D20 as a determination agent, you roll it and IT determines whether or not an action occurs.  Now, whether or not the DM/GM/Storyteller agrees or not with that roll does not matter.  The fact is, that the dice is the final arbitrator.

Amber does not use that, it doesn't use anything at all, but the Story Teller to determine success or failure.  YOU decide the success.  "Mother May I succeed at 'This'?"

I won't pretend to be in touch with the overall online gamer, but I don't think that's what most people would think is the distinguishing factor on what makes something a "Mother May I" game*. If only because there are lots of things that get called "Mother May I" games, and Amber is the only one I know of that doesn't use dice.
*and I'm damn close to sure there's no technical definition.

Mother May I, as I understand it, is more about the ruleset leaving 'what X allows you to do' vague. Rhyden, in and amongst some off-putting vitriol, had a good point about 5e skills being very DM-defined, both in terms of DCs and with what you can accomplish with them (sometimes without even rolling), particularly in comparison to 3e (which has a DC and a modifier for every situation, nevermind that many didn't have the patience for all the tables and that the results are often ridiculous). Hero System would seem to be the ur-example of an anti-'M.M.I?' game -- you know exactly what your character can do because you paid for each on in intricate detail, and the DM's 'may I' factor pretty much is limited to judgment calls like whether 'for fire only' is a -1/2 or -1/4 limitation on your PD cost (and whether or not lava counts as close enough to fire, etc.). Mage:the Ascension being perhaps pretty far in the other direction, with the game offering only slim guidelines on the magic rules and letting the Storyteller provide most of the control over how much X and Y spheres you need to make Z effect.

Amber (and let's be clear, I haven't read the game system) could be a M.M.I?-type game, but I don't think the lack of a dice would be the determining factor. If the game has (for instance) rules for picking locks (or whatever else is a common activity in the game) and rules about 'must have a Dex-like attribute to succeed, modified by 10 per level of quality of lock' or the like, then the game has well defined rules about what you can do with the game-defined traits, and wouldn't (in my mind) be very Mother May I-ish, in spite of the lack of a dice. That make sense?

The rules in Amber are well-defined, but create leeway in terms of what the initial power levels are going to be delineated as. Of course a shitty GM could keep on altering those markers as he goes along, or an even shittier GM could just not have any notion of what they are to begin with and reduce everything to whatever he feels is cool at any moment, but they would be PLAYING AMBER WRONG.
Again, one of the problems is that while the rules are well-defined they are very poorly organized. For a game where you're basically playing gods, and the GM is expected to be the direct arbitrer of what happens (with no dice roll in the middle), that lack of organization can be a problem.

That's why in Lords of Olympus I went out of my way to write the rules in a way that things are very clearly defined, not hidden in examples or in places outside the main descriptions of things, so that people know (for example) just how long someone with a given level in an ability will take to accomplish something, how long they can do something for, how much certain types of advantageous terrains or situations can positively improve your chances against a superior opponent, or how badly something like facing multiple opponents or having certain levels of injury can negatively affect your chances against an inferior opponent, how much your luck is supposed to influence thing, how to switch a combat situation from being ruled by one ability score to another, etc. All stuff that sometimes had problems of organization in Amber.

Okay, well poorly explained rules are a legitimate complaint against a system, but if that's what makes something 'mother may I,' then the term becomes redundant (since we already have a shorthand for the concept, 'poorly explained'). The leeway part I can get behind. That's MMI-ish.

I guess my question is, with the character creation and action resolution rules, can I know pretty reasonably 'my character can do this, this, and this, but not this, this, and this?' Using an example (that is deliberately out of scope for a game where you are 'basically playing gods') -- vaulting a 10' chasm/gap-over-long-fall. It is completely reasonable to say 'my character would know if this is something they could reasonably do, would never attempt (except in literal 'no other choice' situations) unless they had a reasonable chance of success, and it is unclear whether a game would make such a thing possible (since leaping 10' and landing successfully, much less with the kind of gear RPG characters usually wear, is pretty unlikely, but routinely happens in genre fiction most RPGs often emulate). Do I, the hypothetical guy making a character in this game system, have a good idea of whether my character could make that leap? That's the (arbitrary) example I might use to determine whether a game has mother-may-I tendencies.

Amber is what Mage the Ascension turned into, really.  Both games rely completely on the GM's interpretation of the world and it's 'reality'.  I remember a quote from somewhere, I think it was tongue in cheek, that if a game doesn't have rules for falling damage, it's not a real RPG.  There are zero benchmarks in doing activities other than conflicts with each other or the 'Elder' Amberites, which include several different versions of each of them, because not even Zelazny knew which one was the 'right' version, in fact, the book even claims it on page 121 that 'Zelazny doesn't say', that they don't know what about the setting is correct or not.  The entire GM's section is all about 'what ifs' or 'maybes?'

It's all up to the GM to decide everything.  It's a Mother May I to the extreme, even the 'Good Stuff'/'Bad Stuff', which is nothing more than supposed luck, is completely up to the whims of the GM.  Hope he likes you, otherwise, he'll screw you.  The entire game is based around inter-player conflict too.


Pundy, I'm going to call you out, after rereading my copy of Amber.  You rail a lot about 'Storygamers' and 'Storygaming', and yet, this favourite game of yours is THE Storygame of the 90's.

In several points in the Amber core book, it speaks to making character stories, page 122 has 'Story Composition'.  In the combat section it has a small bit on Combat as Story Telling, page 81.  The entire book is a manual on how to do a Storygame as per your personal definition.

You cannot justify this, you'll no doubt try, but damn, this is a 'Story Game' as you justify your hatred.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1040081Pundy, I'm going to call you out, after rereading my copy of Amber.  You rail a lot about 'Storygamers' and 'Storygaming', and yet, this favourite game of yours is THE Storygame of the 90's.

In several points in the Amber core book, it speaks to making character stories, page 122 has 'Story Composition'.  In the combat section it has a small bit on Combat as Story Telling, page 81.  The entire book is a manual on how to do a Storygame as per your personal definition.

You cannot justify this, you'll no doubt try, but damn, this is a 'Story Game' as you justify your hatred.

I disagree. Amber has no meta-mechanic for pushing a "story", unlike every single storygame out there.

I cannot split my baby, Solomon! :( Let her raise the child, my precious.

:p I loves them all, equally... when they ask me in public. :)

Quote from: Brad;1040085I disagree. Amber has no meta-mechanic for pushing a "story", unlike every single storygame out there.

The fuck?  Seriously?  Did you even read the core book?  I EVEN POINTED OUT WHERE IT DOES!  My copy has it on Page 122, which is the Amber 'RPG' Core Book, Fourth Printing, 1999.  The chapter title is, and I will put in ALL caps and BOLD it for you to read it:  STORY COMPOSITION

Or are you just trolling me, by implying that because the entire RPG itself doesn't actually have any real mechanics to speak of, it's not a game?  If so, well played.  Ya got me, I concede defeat.

However, I do have to admit I was wrong.  I once claimed that Wujcik did not get that the setting was written by the 'unreliable narrator' trope, but on page 124 of the Fourth Printing, under Campaign Ideas, he puts in 'Corwin LIES' as a paragraph heading.  I missed that.  To which I apologize.  But it still doesn't change my point that as a game world, Amber is problematic, because nothing we really know of it is 'right'.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1040255The fuck?  Seriously?  Did you even read the core book?  I EVEN POINTED OUT WHERE IT DOES!  My copy has it on Page 122, which is the Amber 'RPG' Core Book, Fourth Printing, 1999.  The chapter title is, and I will put in ALL caps and BOLD it for you to read it:  STORY COMPOSITION

Or are you just trolling me, by implying that because the entire RPG itself doesn't actually have any real mechanics to speak of, it's not a game?  If so, well played.  Ya got me, I concede defeat.

However, I do have to admit I was wrong.  I once claimed that Wujcik did not get that the setting was written by the 'unreliable narrator' trope, but on page 124 of the Fourth Printing, under Campaign Ideas, he puts in 'Corwin LIES' as a paragraph heading.  I missed that.  To which I apologize.  But it still doesn't change my point that as a game world, Amber is problematic, because nothing we really know of it is 'right'.

I'm trolling because I pointed out, rightfully so, that there's no explicit meta-mechanic in Amber? Completely unlike FATE or one of those Apocalypse games?

Chris, as I have said, I have never actually seen the game. What, in the rules, is 'storygaming'-like?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1040081In several points in the Amber core book, it speaks to making character stories, page 122 has 'Story Composition'.  In the combat section it has a small bit on Combat as Story Telling, page 81.  The entire book is a manual on how to do a Storygame as per your personal definition.

Yes, but how?

Quote from: Brad;1040256I'm trolling because I pointed out, rightfully so, that there's no explicit meta-mechanic in Amber? Completely unlike FATE or one of those Apocalypse games?

Can you give me a concrete example?

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1040264Can you give me a concrete example?

https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/fate-points

The whole Moves system for PbtA (always makes me think of piitb...) is a narrative device.

Right, got it. Okay, I'm always a little hedgy on what doesn't makes a game a story game (such as, 'is the Vampire the Masquerade humanity meter a storygaming element?') and sometimes disagree on things other people do (IMO, 'luck points' that you spend on save rerolls once a story or the like are just another ablative pacing element, not storygaming). But these I get and agree with. If your game has the equivalent of "Invoking an Aspect", or "Declaring a Story Detail," then it is a story game (or has a storygaming element). You are saying that Amber has none of these? Chris, is that accurate?

OK, so in the Amber core book, under page 122, it starts going about how a story built, with a section detailing a 'Beginning, Middle and End', then the Hook, Conflict, Character Development, Closure, Moral Resolution, all elements of a story.  It doesn't have any 'Plot Modifier' currencies, because there's nothing random to try again for.  You cannot challenge the GM's ruling, as everything is determined by them, even their 'Good Stuff' or 'Bad Stuff' which is literally what the game calls it's 'Luck' system, and it's still all up to the GM to decide what happens.

People who whine about "Mother may I" and/or who see the GM as an enemy you need rules to "Protect" you from remind me of those Radical Feminists who think all sex is rape.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1040299People who whine about "Mother may I" and/or who see the GM as an enemy you need rules to "Protect" you from remind me of those Radical Feminists who think all sex is rape.

The problem is that Amber is based on inter-player conflict, it's a game of political oneupsmanship, from the Auction for stats to the combat.  Mother May I on it's own isn't that bad, every RPG has it to every degree, but I don't like 'games' that rely on it.

And here's the thing, you're implying, but are completely mistaken, I'm usually the GM, I'm not the one competing against one, I personally object at the amount of work I'd have to do.  A die roll does two things, first, it helps simulate the random element of life that always happens, and takes a burden off my shoulders to help facilitate fun for the rest of the table.

Thing is, Amber is still a Storygame.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1040081Amber is what Mage the Ascension turned into, really.  Both games rely completely on the GM's interpretation of the world and it's 'reality'.  I remember a quote from somewhere, I think it was tongue in cheek, that if a game doesn't have rules for falling damage, it's not a real RPG.  There are zero benchmarks in doing activities other than conflicts with each other or the 'Elder' Amberites, which include several different versions of each of them, because not even Zelazny knew which one was the 'right' version, in fact, the book even claims it on page 121 that 'Zelazny doesn't say', that they don't know what about the setting is correct or not.  The entire GM's section is all about 'what ifs' or 'maybes?'

It's all up to the GM to decide everything.  It's a Mother May I to the extreme, even the 'Good Stuff'/'Bad Stuff', which is nothing more than supposed luck, is completely up to the whims of the GM.  Hope he likes you, otherwise, he'll screw you.  The entire game is based around inter-player conflict too.


Pundy, I'm going to call you out, after rereading my copy of Amber.  You rail a lot about 'Storygamers' and 'Storygaming', and yet, this favourite game of yours is THE Storygame of the 90's.

In several points in the Amber core book, it speaks to making character stories, page 122 has 'Story Composition'.  In the combat section it has a small bit on Combat as Story Telling, page 81.  The entire book is a manual on how to do a Storygame as per your personal definition.

You cannot justify this, you'll no doubt try, but damn, this is a 'Story Game' as you justify your hatred.

Holy shit your ridiculous resentment of me is really taking you to new levels of retardation.

First, there were multiple versions of the Elders specifically to address the whole question of the Unreliable Narrator, something YOU WERE JUST CLAIMING THE GAME DIDN'T ADDRESS. Because you're a fucking ignoramus who never read the game.

Second, the choices are made by the GM at the beginning of the campaign. That's what a FUCKING TOOLBOX is.

Third, there is ZERO story-game element to Amber. You do not collaborate in "creating a story" with your players. The players do not have the power to rewrite the universe. In fact, you're here bitching like a little cunt about how in Amber the GM has absolute authority, while Storygames are notorious for removing all authority from a GM.

The only reason you're even mentioning storygame is because of your RPGpundit Deragement Syndrome, you gimp.

Please, by all means keep humiliating yourself by showing how you know fuck all about Amber and don't care to know, and this is all just your own personal attempt to hold out your little wiener in some ridiculous masculinity challenge you are incapable of winning.

I feel like I'm not going to get an answer (and maybe that's okay). Since I genuinely don't know the game, I'm pretty useless for a 'yes it is'/'no it isn't' shoving match.

But Pundy (or Brad, or Chris himself), Chris mentions, "page 122, it starts going about how a story built, with a section detailing a 'Beginning, Middle and End', then the Hook, Conflict, Character Development, Closure, Moral Resolution, all elements of a story." Is that correct? Mind you, I'm aware that the mention of storytelling does not mean that there's any actual storytelling element in the game or its mechanics. But if it is not a storytelling game (and if it is, can someone please point out how it is? All I can tell is that there may or may not be a bunch of elements related to inter-player conflict, Mother May I-ism, lack of random element, and lack of rules related to interacting with the world as a whole rather than other PCs or NPCS, all of which are interesting facets if they exist, but red herrings on the topic of storygaming), is there a reason that it was included in the game?

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1040441I feel like I'm not going to get an answer (and maybe that's okay). Since I genuinely don't know the game, I'm pretty useless for a 'yes it is'/'no it isn't' shoving match.

But Pundy (or Brad, or Chris himself), Chris mentions, "page 122, it starts going about how a story built, with a section detailing a 'Beginning, Middle and End', then the Hook, Conflict, Character Development, Closure, Moral Resolution, all elements of a story." Is that correct? Mind you, I'm aware that the mention of storytelling does not mean that there's any actual storytelling element in the game or its mechanics. But if it is not a storytelling game (and if it is, can someone please point out how it is? All I can tell is that there may or may not be a bunch of elements related to inter-player conflict, Mother May I-ism, lack of random element, and lack of rules related to interacting with the world as a whole rather than other PCs or NPCS, all of which are interesting facets if they exist, but red herrings on the topic of storygaming), is there a reason that it was included in the game?

Pages 80-144 deal with "gamemaster mechanics". The section referred to on page 122 is taken out of context; it's no different than paged 5-6 of B1 Into the Unknown, "How to be an effective dungeonmaster." Literally the same exact advice.

If you read all of the Amber mechanics described in those 60+ pages, there's no way you'd think it's a storytelling game unless you're being purposefully dense.

One of the reasons why I wouldn't run Amber is that the RPG community is woefully deplete of adults.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1040433Holy shit your ridiculous resentment of me is really taking you to new levels of retardation.

Dood, this is not personal.  I don't know you from Adam, I don't resent you.  Why would I?  I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about The Amber 'RPG'.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1040433First, there were multiple versions of the Elders specifically to address the whole question of the Unreliable Narrator, something YOU WERE JUST CLAIMING THE GAME DIDN'T ADDRESS. Because you're a fucking ignoramus who never read the game.

No, it doesn't address, it just throws them at you, and offers vague suggestions, with no definite answers as to who these NPC's are/were.  It's like as if Blargle and Aleena of Red Box had six different stat blocks, covering all classes.  It's distracting and shows that the Author doesn't have much of either 1. a grip on the material or 2. the actual Creator of the setting is too lazy to define anything solidly.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1040433Second, the choices are made by the GM at the beginning of the campaign. That's what a FUCKING TOOLBOX is.

Toolboxes have tools that are a single shape, like actual rules to help adjudicate, here it relies entirely on the GM's whim.  And worse, it's like having putty in the shape of a hammer, screwdrivers, and vague instructions on how to change them into something else.

It's worse than IKEA furniture instructions.  At least they give you an Allan Key.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1040433Third, there is ZERO story-game element to Amber. You do not collaborate in "creating a story" with your players. The players do not have the power to rewrite the universe. In fact, you're here bitching like a little cunt about how in Amber the GM has absolute authority, while Storygames are notorious for removing all authority from a GM.

Is that you're meaning?  I don't know of any major games that do that.  Can you name one that does?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1040433The only reason you're even mentioning storygame is because of your RPGpundit Deragement Syndrome, you gimp.

Insults don't help your case, Pundy.  Not entirely sure you're as confident in your argument.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1040433Please, by all means keep humiliating yourself by showing how you know fuck all about Amber and don't care to know, and this is all just your own personal attempt to hold out your little wiener in some ridiculous masculinity challenge you are incapable of winning.

I've already made my point, you seem to be upset that I have a good enough point to start with ad hominems.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1040441I feel like I'm not going to get an answer (and maybe that's okay). Since I genuinely don't know the game, I'm pretty useless for a 'yes it is'/'no it isn't' shoving match.

But Pundy (or Brad, or Chris himself), Chris mentions, "page 122, it starts going about how a story built, with a section detailing a 'Beginning, Middle and End', then the Hook, Conflict, Character Development, Closure, Moral Resolution, all elements of a story." Is that correct? Mind you, I'm aware that the mention of storytelling does not mean that there's any actual storytelling element in the game or its mechanics. But if it is not a storytelling game (and if it is, can someone please point out how it is? All I can tell is that there may or may not be a bunch of elements related to inter-player conflict, Mother May I-ism, lack of random element, and lack of rules related to interacting with the world as a whole rather than other PCs or NPCS, all of which are interesting facets if they exist, but red herrings on the topic of storygaming), is there a reason that it was included in the game?

I assume it was included because Wujick included it because that's what he believed Amber 'adventures' should be structured.  You do not include something in a book with the intent of never being used, even AD&D and it's myriad of optional rules are accepted that they will be used by someone.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;1040472One of the reasons why I wouldn't run Amber is that the RPG community is woefully deplete of adults.

Hence, why you need a randomizer agent to create something of an equalizer.

I make no claims to be 'mature' enough to use something like Amber.  In my experience, Amber is the game that a lot of elitist/pretentious 'role players' use to tell others 'they don't get gaming'.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1040483I assume it was included because Wujick included it because that's what he believed Amber 'adventures' should be structured.  You do not include something in a book with the intent of never being used, even AD&D and it's myriad of optional rules are accepted that they will be used by someone.

Okay, but is that what you think makes Amber a Storygame? And if so, how?

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1040484Okay, but is that what you think makes Amber a Storygame? And if so, how?

Well, going by Pundit's explanation of what he thinks is a "storygame", it's not.  I was misunderstanding.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1040485Well, going by Pundit's explanation of what he thinks is a "storygame", it's not.  I was misunderstanding.

I...uh, well okay then. That settles that I guess.


And while I agree that Pundy went overly quickly to the insults, to no appreciable benefit, that does mean that it isn't the case that he's 'Not entirely sure you're as confident in your argument,' as he's apparently right within his own definitions of the terms, so he would have no reason to be unconfident.

And I'm not going to be sticking around for a who-has-the-right-vocab argument.

Hope this can just die as a pointless diversion.

No one will be surprised that I'd say Cyberpunk 2020, but I actually got to play AD&D 2nd Ed a lot more, and it was always fun.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1040488I...uh, well okay then. That settles that I guess.


And while I agree that Pundy went overly quickly to the insults, to no appreciable benefit, that does mean that it isn't the case that he's 'Not entirely sure you're as confident in your argument,' as he's apparently right within his own definitions of the terms, so he would have no reason to be unconfident.

And I'm not going to be sticking around for a who-has-the-right-vocab argument.

Hope this can just die as a pointless diversion.

Anytime someone has to make an attack on the person, rather than the argument, I've found that they're no longer confident in their own argument.

As for letting it go, I'm cool with.  I've said my piece on what game I like in the 90's a long time back.

If we are allowed to continue this diversion, FATE has its origins in being used to run Amber... which makes a twisted sort of sense.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;1040515If we are allowed to continue this diversion, FATE has its origins in being used to run Amber... which makes a twisted sort of sense.

FATE or Fudge, if I recall correctly, they both share a history?  (Honest question, I don't remember.)  And it would explain my dislike of FATE comes from, and why it's got a player vs. GM feel, even when it doesn't mean to.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1040576FATE or Fudge, if I recall correctly, they both share a history?  (Honest question, I don't remember.)  And it would explain my dislike of FATE comes from, and why it's got a player vs. GM feel, even when it doesn't mean to.

It was Fudge but the hack ultimately lead to Fate. I was always fascinated with Fudge. It was a pretty solid light and universal system and found Fate a little unnecessary. Having played Fate over the years, my stance on it has soured. I don't find it very adversarial. Rather it becomes about gaming the story which kinda kills things for me like cheating/metagaming.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;1040637It was Fudge but the hack ultimately lead to Fate. I was always fascinated with Fudge. It was a pretty solid light and universal system and found Fate a little unnecessary. Having played Fate over the years, my stance on it has soured. I don't find it very adversarial. Rather it becomes about gaming the story which kinda kills things for me like cheating/metagaming.

I find that the give and take of the FATE points lead to an adversarial relationship, players use them, the GM gets them to use back against the players, who gain their points to use back.  Given that you claim that Amber was an influence, and given how antagonistic the setting of Amber is meant to be, it makes sense.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1040639I find that the give and take of the FATE points lead to an adversarial relationship, players use them, the GM gets them to use back against the players, who gain their points to use back.  Given that you claim that Amber was an influence, and given how antagonistic the setting of Amber is meant to be, it makes sense.

Isn't the antagonism in Amber PvP not PvGM?

Quote from: Bren;1041318Isn't the antagonism in Amber PvP not PvGM?

In my personal experience it's both.  The GM is supposed to have his own cadre of NPC's who are also jockeying for position, most of which would be the Amberites from the novels, and the entire book is laced with adversarial talk.  And there's the 'Good Stuff/Bad Stuff' rules, which I hesitate to call them that.

In Amber/LoO (and I think LoGaS), the GM is NOT supposed to be antagonistic toward players.  Of course, some of his NPCs may be antagonistic toward players. But the GM isn't supposed to be 'on the side' of the NPCs, any more so than in any other RPG.

Torg
Shadowrun
Buck Rogers XXVc

TORG was a flawed gem but it was a lot of fun.

My top '90s games:
1)Feng Shui
2) Lex Arcana (Italian rpg)
3) Over the Edge
4) Druid (Italian rpg)

The 90's were something of a Silver Age for TTRPGs. The Golden Age of the late 70's and 80's had passed but TTRPGs enjoyed a sort of second Renaissance in the 90's. Lots of small stores were popping up left and right fueled by the Comics and TTRPG boom and that mean lots of shelf space.  More shelf-space meant more chances for indie publishers to get their works out there.

My top 3 90's RPGs:

1. Deadlands.  This is probably my favorite RPG of all time. I have run quite a long campaign with it.  "Spaghetti Western Cowboys vs B-Movie Monsters" is a straight up Peanut Butter & Chocolate level perfect combination that I'm surprised more movies in that vein haven't come out.

2. Cyberpunk 2020. Technically the first edition came out in 1988, but the Cyberpunk 2020 Second Edition is really where this game came into its own.  The thing about R Talsorians games is they are flawed masterpieces.  They are not particularly well balanced, or edited.  However by golly are R Talsorian's Interlock games a blast to play.  This is what ultimately convinced me that "balance" is a false goal.

3. Heavy Gear.  Heavy Gear is a sad story.  DP9 have such an incredible product.  The Heavy Gear RPG/Tactical wargame hybrid model takes everything that made Battletech good and just does it better. The mech designs are better, the rules are faster and more fun and the RPG and Wargame mechanics are seamlessly integrated.  It's a shame DP9 keep getting screwed over by their licensors.

I'd love to say Shadowrun, But that came out in 89.

Sooo. Expanding on prior.

Torg: 1990: Great system and setting that offered alot of versatility.
Rifts: 1990: Feels more 80s. Another great system that offers alot of versatility.
Nightlife: 1990: Rather nice little alternative to WoD.

Dream Park: 1992: Another nice little Talsorian RPG that has fallen into obscurity. Based on the novels. And another nicely versatile system.

Macross II: 1993: An odd standalone book using the Palladium Macross system. Based on the equally odd standalone OVA.

Wraith-The Oblivion: 1994: I really like the original version of Wraith. Really unusual premise rarely seen.
Defensores de Tóquio: 1994: Brazilian RPG that is fairly well done and also fairly versatile despite its focus on Japanese Superhero/Sentai adventures. Features ALOT in Dragão Brasil.

Dragon Storm: 1996: About the only real CCG-RPG ever. Excellent system and liked it so much I designed some cards for it and footed the bill for the art and had a little business agreement with BDP and my own little company back then.

Cthulhu Live: 1997: Direct conversion of the CoC RPG into LARP rules rather than an actual RPG in the normal sense. What for me really made it shine was the Shades of Grey expansion which converted it into a Pulp Hero LARP!

Aberrant: 1999: WoD system used for a gritty superhero setting and done right. Miracles do occur! This is one of my favorite superhero RPGs alongside TSR's MSH.
Furry Pirates: 1999: I was a playtester for this way back and despite the Disney Robin Hood animals theme, it is a surprisingly well done historical accurate RPG covering alot of details and personalities spanning the age of sail. I also like it more than its predecessor as the magic system is both optional and far toned down.

So of those probably Aberrant tops my list followed by Dragon Storm, Torg, and Cthulhu Live+Shades of Grey
I left out Buck Rogers as realized the version from the 90s was not the same. Its not a bad little system. Just not my thing.

Played mostly D&D in the 90s though some do standout as personal favourites. Rifts, Torg, Star Wars and Marvel Faserip. I was never one and still am not one to just buy a new tog every time it gets released.

Aria: Canticle of the Monomyth
deadEarth
Immortal: The Invisible War
Senzar
World of Synnibarr

Okay, more seriously:

Amber
Feng Shui
FUDGE
Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game (SAGA)
Over the Edge
Unknown Armies

I think Marvel SAGA captures super heroics better than any other game I've played, and I've played a lot of supers games. Fudge was an interesting break. Over the Edge and Unknown Armies had wild settings, and both had clever mechanics. Feng Shui is another game that captures a genre very well. Amber does a great job of taking the system off the table without going completely freeform.

Quote from: Pat on June 18, 2021, 11:50:12 AM
Aria: Canticle of the Monomyth

Wow, I had forgotten about that one.  Makes me think of a recently lost friend that I discovered that book with.  We played it a little but it was a tad too esoteric to become a main stay with the group. It had great structures for creating background though.

My favorite game from the 90s though, has to be Earthdawn.

  Rifts.  Grew to dislike the system, but I liked the concept of contested attacks.  The setting is gonzo, and I always enjoyed I could ignore the meta setting directions and on a small scale just in a party, there were lots of things to do and get into.

Quote from: DELETE THIS on June 18, 2021, 12:56:49 PM
I asked for a ban nicely, was told, "we don't do that," so this post is meant to force the moderators to ban me. Thanks.

2767 posts and now you want to be banned?
Posting the request to a necro-thread about 90s games?
And attaching a nsfw pic?

We've got to know the story behind this!

At least he picked a decent pic.

I liked the Vampire system.  The game Vampire wasn't that great.  I didn't particularly like the idea of being a vampire.  But the system was excellent.  I planned on using it to make a sci fi game, especially since my favorite sci fi game, Traveller, just put out the very uninspiring "New Era".

D&D 2e lost me when they published Skills & Powers, I pretty much invented my own version of D&D, cobbled together from house rules. 

The 90's had so many games and most of them were pretty lame. 

I did like Amber Diceless, but no one ever wanted to play it.

Quote from: Aglondir on June 18, 2021, 03:42:08 PM

Quote from: DELETE THIS on June 18, 2021, 12:56:49 PM
I asked for a ban nicely, was told, "we don't do that," so this post is meant to force the moderators to ban me. Thanks.

2767 posts and now you want to be banned?
Posting the request to a necro-thread about 90s games?
And attaching a nsfw pic?

We've got to know the story behind this!

I've deleted the nude image post.

But I believe he didn't ask to be banned, he asked to be erased, for all his posts to be removed. We don't do that.

So, I didn't ban him either. I've just scrambled his password. He will forever be Unbanned.

"For not only the longing in his heart, but the torment of his being at the realization his enemies would do... nothing" - unknown

Quote from: Torque2100 on June 18, 2021, 09:17:18 AM

3. Heavy Gear.  Heavy Gear is a sad story.  DP9 have such an incredible product.  The Heavy Gear RPG/Tactical wargame hybrid model takes everything that made Battletech good and just does it better. The mech designs are better, the rules are faster and more fun and the RPG and Wargame mechanics are seamlessly integrated.  It's a shame DP9 keep getting screwed over by their licensors.

With very little work, Heavy Gear really scratched an itch for me for over a decade of excellent gaming.

But alas, it is not only the fault of DP9's licensors that the IP never gets anywhere these days.

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 18, 2021, 06:03:43 PM

Quote from: Aglondir on June 18, 2021, 03:42:08 PM

Quote from: DELETE THIS on June 18, 2021, 12:56:49 PM
I asked for a ban nicely, was told, "we don't do that," so this post is meant to force the moderators to ban me. Thanks.

2767 posts and now you want to be banned?
Posting the request to a necro-thread about 90s games?
And attaching a nsfw pic?

We've got to know the story behind this!

I've deleted the nude image post.

But I believe he didn't ask to be banned, he asked to be erased, for all his posts to be removed. We don't do that.

So, I didn't ban him either. I've just scrambled his password. He will forever be Unbanned.

That is the most savage, and awesome, admin action I've ever seen. Bravo!

At least it was a cool thread that got necroed.

Quote from: Heavy Josh on June 18, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
But alas, it is not only the fault of DP9's licensors that the IP never gets anywhere these days.

DP9 really dropped the ball when those who worked for the company suddenly decided they wanted to be a production company and went on the rpg equivalent of radio silence for two or was it three years, while not leaving anyone to handle the rpg side of things. When they finally decided they wanted to be rpg designers again. They though they could disappear for two three years and run a successful rpg company while releasing nothing new in those three years. By then fans like myself moved on to other rpg companies.

As well to me at least it seems like they just leap on any new thread. Their version of the Silicore rules kept changing. Now it seems the guys in charge think that majority of the fanbase will want to shell out money for their Heavy Gear Blitz mintaure game and other similar miniature games. DP9 is a weird company to say the least with those in charge or at least those with the money making some of the strangest decisions. " We disappeared from the rpg scene for 2-3 years lets not release new version of our rpgs, instead miniature rpgs".  While also expecting no one to do anything with Battletech during their hiatus from rpgs.

Quote from: Omega on June 18, 2021, 10:57:38 AM
Aberrant: 1999: WoD system used for a gritty superhero setting and done right. Miracles do occur! This is one of my favorite superhero RPGs alongside TSR's MSH.

I have to disagree with Aberrant. It was part of a strange trend in the 90s where rpg companies thought that the majority of fans of superhero rpgs wanted to suddnely play grim and gritty and doomed corrupted superheroes. While imo many like myself appreciated the option many just wanted to play heroic superheroes. Brave New World, Aberrant how many here can honestly count on one hand who still play those rpgs or many like it. Many still play Marvel Faserip. Another thing going against Aberrant was that too many White Wolf rpg settings had the power corrupts absolutely and the fact that with very few exceptions many Aberrants go corrupt due to their powers becoming stronger. For myself and my gaming group it was "yay another rpg where you play a doomed character from WW". We stayed mostly with Marvel Faserip with some Heroes Unlimited.

I also liked the Old World of Darkness rpgs even if the writers stupisly painted themselves into a corner with no escape. So no matter what the players do in any of the established rpg worlds the world is completely doomed. Then why the fuck am I playing a Werewolf against Pentax if the fucking Wyrm is going to win. That and their core book with 80-90% rehashed, recycled book model felt like you were buying the same book over again.

Earthdawn such an intereting world and one of the few rpgs that gives humans an interesting abilityas a race. Beyond they reproduce like rabbits and highly ambitious cut and paste from too many fantasy rpgs. As well the magic system was a huge selling point for me. I can cast spells over and over again while not forgetting them no matter my level and not needing to rest.  Even then to only change my selection of spells and I can cast over and over again. As well they creatures or Horrors made the kick in the door I'm fucking shit up and no one will stop me players a lesson on not to act like a dumb idiot in combat. Go ahead rush in like an idiot to attack that Bloatform and see if your character surivives. While also giving players a reason to explore areas on the map.

Quote from: Skarg on April 16, 2018, 02:43:01 AM
Aquelarre, not for the system so much but the setting, content, art, flavor, etc. I'm looking forward to the English version when it finally arrives

Looking over this list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_pen_and_paper_role-playing_games#1990s), I don't see many others that I have positive feelings or interest in, such as:

* Fudge, mainly because I mostly like Steffan O'Sullivan.
* Prime Directive, just because it's set in the Star Fleet Battles universe and I like SFB, but of course I'd tend to refer to the later GURPS version of it.

Its already out

https://www.chaosium.com/aquelarre/

Edit: Didnt realize the post was so old.

1990-1993 to me were GURPS and GURPS only. I ran a campaign in the classic Lost World/Savage Empire setting. A second one in a Cyberpunk-Horror setting (one of the most vivid and creative RPG experiences ever) and a third one who managed to be a mix between Star Wars, Mobile Suit Gundam, Captain Harlock and Traveller.

After 1993 I stopped playing RPGs and, TBH, I thought that my life was past them. I bought and collected a lot of books... CoC, of course, Cyberpunk 2020, Rifts, WoD (exp. Mage and Wraith), more GURPS and some D&D/AD&D 2E classics. By then my comic-book writing career had taken off (even if it was never the only thing I did) so I welcomed the suggestions (I considered "writing" as creating an adventure and then playing it in my mind with the characters...), but I didn't play RPGs again until 1999.

On that year there was a perfect storm of my colleagues wanting to try them, Planescape grabbing my attention and Planescape: Torment re-igniting my RPG creativity. We started with Star Wars D6, then a couple of adventures at CoC, and then, on Fall 1999, I launched the AD&D/D&D 3.5 campaign that was my main RPG commitment for the following 13 years...

Vampire
Kult
Feng Shui
Armageddon
AFMBE
Star Wars
A/State
Sla
Over the Edge

If Shadowrun isn't a 90s game, then neither is Star Wars.

Quote from: sureshot on June 19, 2021, 12:12:29 AMDP9 is a weird company to say the least with those in charge or at least those with the money making some of the strangest decisions. " We disappeared from the rpg scene for 2-3 years lets not release new version of our rpgs, instead miniature rpgs".  While also expecting no one to do anything with Battletech during their hiatus from rpgs.

DP9 also tried to run an organized play host for various games and actually succeeded in doing it WORSE that the RPGA was at the time. That kids is a true accomplishment.

On the flip side the company that would become DP9 put out some of the best Cyberpunk 2020 material, including the oft overlooked Nights Edge techno-horror + supernatural setting for CP2020.

Quote from: sureshot on June 19, 2021, 12:21:49 AM

Quote from: Omega on June 18, 2021, 10:57:38 AM
Aberrant: 1999: WoD system used for a gritty superhero setting and done right. Miracles do occur! This is one of my favorite superhero RPGs alongside TSR's MSH.

I have to disagree with Aberrant. It was part of a strange trend in the 90s where rpg companies thought that the majority of fans of superhero rpgs wanted to suddnely play grim and gritty and doomed corrupted superheroes.

Another thing going against Aberrant was that too many White Wolf rpg settings had the power corrupts absolutely and the fact that with very few exceptions many Aberrants go corrupt due to their powers becoming stronger. For myself and my gaming group it was "yay another rpg where you play a doomed character from WW". We stayed mostly with Marvel Faserip with some Heroes Unlimited.

1: Aberrant was more a trend of WW who really loved their conspiracy theory settings. Its baked into pretty much every WW product. Even Orpheus.
With Aberrant though you were free to play it as bright and hopeful. Its just that all around the edges were shades of grey to deepest black. Like alot of pre-Dark Age comics really. Just that as per WW. Things get really dark really fast with each expansion. Same happened to Orpheus, only in record time. Really vexing. Also easy to discard and play it my way.

2: Id say it was more that the power 'could' corrupt you. But if you played it safe and didnt get power greedy, then chances if flipping out was low or even just about nil depending on the MR nodes levels. What REALLY pissed me off though was Aeon/Trinity declaring ALL the heroes went insane. Sorry. No. Didnt happen that way.

In the late 90s, I got into their Star Trek game(s) which were not a new edition of the FASA Star Trek game.

AD&D Player's Options. It was a more flexible system in building a custom character pre 3e.

Quote from: sureshot on June 19, 2021, 12:12:29 AM

Quote from: Heavy Josh on June 18, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
But alas, it is not only the fault of DP9's licensors that the IP never gets anywhere these days.

DP9 really dropped the ball when those who worked for the company suddenly decided they wanted to be a production company and went on the rpg equivalent of radio silence for two or was it three years, while not leaving anyone to handle the rpg side of things. When they finally decided they wanted to be rpg designers again. They though they could disappear for two three years and run a successful rpg company while releasing nothing new in those three years. By then fans like myself moved on to other rpg companies.

As well to me at least it seems like they just leap on any new thread. Their version of the Silicore rules kept changing. Now it seems the guys in charge think that majority of the fanbase will want to shell out money for their Heavy Gear Blitz mintaure game and other similar miniature games. DP9 is a weird company to say the least with those in charge or at least those with the money making some of the strangest decisions. " We disappeared from the rpg scene for 2-3 years lets not release new version of our rpgs, instead miniature rpgs".  While also expecting no one to do anything with Battletech during their hiatus from rpgs.

Basically, all the people who were really visionary at DP9 left, or were on the way out, by the time the Silhouette CORE rules were released. Badly. Half-formed. Probably best to just move on. At that point, there was one guy left from the original group. From my understanding of things, he took over the company, and still runs it. The Blitz minis game is the only real moneymaker they have. Wasn't Heavy Gear licensed to Steve Jackson Games for a moment in time? And then there was at least one other gaming company that got the IP... nothing ever happened with that. There were two video games, a CG-animated TV show (!) and then nothing until the Blitz game came out. And then it came out again. And again, and now we're at it again...

Never got a compelling end to the HG storyline. Ah well.

There was also the Heavy Gear CGI animated series by Mainframe, the company that did Reboot.

Another vote for Amber Diceless. 

If it has not been mentioned already here a good list to jog your memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tabletop_role-playing_games#1990s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tabletop_role-playing_games#1990s)

Our group played the heck out of Torg. We dug the setting, and the rules weren't bad. The cards were a welcome thing for manipulating combat, and the rules for Orrorsh (terrible name) were effective enough that none of our players wanted to set foot in the cosm.
I have a lot of fond memories of those days.

I also like TORG

also like the WEG "World of Indiana Jones" stuff --played that a lot in colege

In the 90s I was playing GURPS and, TBH, some storyteller stuff, in addition to Shadowrun...

But to respect the OP's criteria, probably Kult or Unknown Armies.

The main 2 are Shadowrun and Earthdawn from the 90's

Played a ton of those two RPG's back in the day.

Legends of the Five Rings...or Fading Suns.

Probably L5R based on how much I played it.