There is a reason I created Borgstrom Wars.  Can we fucking drop the Noblis shit already?  Pundit hates it, Grimgent likes it. Poof! Lets seal them in a fucking bubble in a shard of Amber to duke it out for all eternity. Pundit with his 1st rank punditry, and grimgent with his Miracle points in teh domain of 'Noblis Love'.  If you get bored you can peek in and watch.

Meanwhile the rest of us can get on with the serious business of talking about gaming between bouts of actual gaming.


Oh, and I take back all the bad things I never said about TonyLB every. The fight between Wolverine and Deathstrike was THE Shizzle of all Shizzles, the brutalist and awesomist fight between people that don't talk shit of all time.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaYeah, for this reason, I still love my LPB edition of Nobilis, which is the same size as Burning Wheel.

If I were to check out Nobilis I think I might like prefer that format. How would one go about finding this? I tried an ebay search but just got a bunch of seashells.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHm.  So, then, what are they?

!i!

Roleplaying guide books.

No randomizer, no game. YMMV.

Quote from: SpikeThere is a reason I created Borgstrom Wars.  Can we fucking drop the Noblis shit already?  Pundit hates it, Grimgent likes it. Poof! Lets seal them in a fucking bubble in a shard of Amber to duke it out for all eternity. Pundit with his 1st rank punditry, and grimgent with his Miracle points in teh domain of 'Noblis Love'.  If you get bored you can peek in and watch.

Meanwhile the rest of us can get on with the serious business of talking about gaming between bouts of actual gaming.

*points at RPGPundit's ego*
But he started it!  I'm just trying to make a silk purse out of Pundit's ear. :pundit:

Quote from: Christmas ApeRoleplaying guide books.

No randomizer, no game. YMMV.

So what about wargames that don't include randomization? They aren't wargames?

Quote from: Christmas ApeRoleplaying guide books.

No randomizer, no game. YMMV.

So chess isn't a game?

Quote from: MaddmanSo chess isn't a game?

Chess is an 'Other Game'... and I hearby declare that this thread belongs in the 'other games' forum. Moderators? If you please...

Players choices/actions are a type of randomizer.

Chess is a strategic competition. Ultimately, there are a limited number of moves and gambits available - it's a huge number, certainly, but still limited, and each move made limits the possibilities for future moves. Your chance of victory is entirely down to your skill, your opponent's skill, and the limitations of the resources available to you.

As I say, though, YMMV.

Blatant side-track:  So I was thinking about Spirit/Auctoritas in Nobilis, and how I'd rather it worked.  I'd rather it worked something like this:  Yes, the opposing miracle still totally goes off, and it still totally effects you in the story, but those effects don't have any story impact.  If you're knocked down, HARD, it's only for a short while.  You get right back up, no matter how impossible it might seem.  The original miracle-caster still gets to be cool, it just doesn't stick.

And I realized "Hey, I know the poster-child for this ... Naruto!"

So now I totally want to run a hugely house-ruled "Narutobilis," with four stats:  Tai-Jutsu, Nin-jutsu, Chakra and Determination ... and everyone needs to pick a specialty for the nin-jutsu, of course, like Shadow-Clone or Byakugan or some damn thing.

And then we'll have an unending sequence of one-on-one fights (for no damn reason at all) that expose the inner hardships we have because of our tough childhood, so players can earn ninja points for their boat-loads of psychological Restrictions!  Wheeee!

Quote from: TonyLBBlatant side-track:  So I was thinking about Spirit/Auctoritas in Nobilis, and how I'd rather it worked.  I'd rather it worked something like this:  Yes, the opposing miracle still totally goes off, and it still totally effects you in the story, but those effects don't have any story impact.

By the book, that's basically what happens if the miracle penetrates and goes unopposed, but isn't powerful enough to cause any actual damage: for example, using a common Lesser Creation of Fire to toss a ball of flames at an uninjured Durant Noble would end up like that. So under those circumstances, how would this modification distinguish between an Auctoritas that works and one that doesn't?

Quote from: Christmas ApeNo randomizer, no game. YMMV.

Oh.  I was afraid you'd say just that.

The concept of a "game" arises from chance, weighing the possibility of success versus failure without being able to determine the outcome beforehand.  In most games, "chance" is generated through actual head-to-head performance, whether the contest be physical performance or intellectual.  One contestant performs an action that another can not determine beforehand, and the other contestant has to respond accordingly.  The result is, effectively, a random result, arising from countless factors ranging from the obvious to the intangible.

The notion that randomisers have to take the form of some kind of odds-counter like dice or cards disregards the fact that the players themselves and the circumstances in which they play generate random results.  I think what you could more accurately say is that games like Nobilis, or Amber, or Theatrix (or chess or football) aren't dice games with improvisational acting serving as a raison d'être.

!i!

Quote from: blakkieIf I were to check out Nobilis I think I might like prefer that format.

It also features a much rawer writing style, which might actually appeal to some.  Also, it has a less-developed damage-tracking system, though I believe one can still find the revised system on the Ash & Chrysanthemum website.

Quote How would one go about finding this? I tried an ebay search but just got a bunch of seashells.

I think it's pretty hard to find these days.  Try a couple of Google searches under "Nobilis Pharos" (Pharos Press was the original publisher).  I found one listing asking $57.99, which seems a little unreasonable.  If you can't find another copy for significantly less and you think you really want it...um...contact me.  Through a shipping mix-up with Amazon.com back in 1999, I ended up with multiple copies.  I still have two.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAlso, it has a less-developed damage-tracking system, though I believe one can still find the revised system on the Ash & Chrysanthemum website.

From what I've heard, 1e also doesn't make the distinction between miraculous and mundane actions? And features a "General" Domain which allows Nobles some control over pretty much everything?

Quote from: GrimGentFrom what I've heard, 1e also doesn't make the distinction between miraculous and mundane actions? And features a "General" Domain which allows Nobles some control over pretty much everything?

Yeah, in many ways, the LPB makes a nice companion to the GWB, with the latter serving as a resource to the former.

!i!