Okay, none of this namby-pamby "I like to make the players happy" or even the hard-core (but vague) "I like to torture the players and watch them squeal" nonsense. If anyone jumps into this thread without at least peripherally addressing the following specific questions I will mock them mercilessly. You have been warned. Here are the questions:
(1) What specifically do you do as a GM that gives you satisfaction and pleasure?
(2) What is a concrete example of doing this right, and how does that compare with doing it almost-right?
(3) What can players do that supports and aids you in doing this thing that you enjoy?
(4) Is there something that the players do that you, by doing this thing you like, support and aid?
So here's one thing I like to do, in this format:
(1) I like to find not merely a threat against the characters but the threat, the perfect twist of the knife that makes the players gasp with fear and anticipation of pain, and inspires them to frenzied action.
(2) Not merely "A village is under attack by a werewolf" but "A child went out into the woods searching for mushrooms this morning, and she hasn't come back ... at nightfall the wolf will stalk the woods ... we must find her and protect her."
(3) Care about things. Make passionate connections that make the character vulnerable. Don't "turtle up" behind an impenetrable shield of apathy and detachment.
(4) Players passionately fight for the things they care about. My attacking those things gives them the opportunity to fight for them.
Once through for each of two things I like.
Quote from: TonyLB(1) What specifically do you do as a GM that gives you satisfaction and pleasure?
That Christmas feeling, where I open up the 'gift' right alongside everyone else at the table. I like not knowing what is going to happen. I like being surprised by the twist.
Quote(2) What is a concrete example of doing this right, and how does that compare with doing it almost-right?
Weeelll, going back the rules are 3e and the setting is Freeport. In one game the PCs decided to go to city hall of records to procure a map of the sewers. They get it. Everyone leaves, but just outside the door one of the PCs says he's forgotten something and steps back in. Attempts to fireball the lone clerk, but due to a fire suppressant magic (that was written in to the setting BTW) it totally fizzles. I roll, the clerk doesn't notice. So the PC draws bow and arrow and fires. I decide that this is a stout man, but nothing super spectacular because he is ultimately just a paper-pusher, and give him 12 HP. I think this guy is just going to scream his lungs out, and the trail of blood that this party-gone-psycho has left is about to come to an end....and the bastard rolls a 20 and then confirms the threat. Following up with a damage roll that was good enough to one-shot the victim.:rolleyes:
I don't know about almost right, but wrong would be some sort of heavyhanded cock-block. I don't know, pick your poison. *shrug*
Quote(3) What can players do that supports and aids you in doing this thing that you enjoy?
Put on their thinking caps and go for it. Don't sit back and wait for me to feed them everything. Make--something--happen.
Quote(4) Is there something that the players do that you, by doing this thing you like, support and aid?
"Say yes or roll"? :o Seriously. Nothing stiffles creativity like out-of-hand rejecting of creative thoughts. I let them attempt even if I think they'll fail. Especially if I think they'll fail....and, though the example doesn't show it that well....I make a serious effort to have any particular failure not be the end of the road...although sometimes that's how it works out. Note that above example is from before I ever heard of Nobilis, DitV, BW, etc.
1) PCs having a burning loathing for their enemies.
2) NPCs that are annoying. Almost right is a GM that is annoying because he doesn't pull the veil over his actions well enough for the players to believe the NPC exists and feel that they are just getting jerked around. ;)
3) Going for he bait I guess.
4) Featuring an NPC BBEG that cunning opponent and also not entirely Evil. Plucking charactures from the news headlines works well in my experience. :D EDIT: Oh, and at least partially tailoring the NPC to what I know the players themselves hate. Make it personal!
Quote from: TonyLB(1) What specifically do you do as a GM that gives you satisfaction and pleasure?
Portraying NPCs that entertain my players, presenting worlds that amaze my players, tying together a good plotline that gives my players room to shine.
Quote(2) What is a concrete example of doing this right, and how does that compare with doing it almost-right?
Damn, sorry, I don't know if I can answer this, at least not at this time with the limited time I have on me... mainly doing it "right" is a question of being able to create the sensation of "emulation", of having a cast of thousands and getting my players to not see them all as just "me", but as individuals, leading them to see their characters as individuals too; and creating a sense, with the "cast of thousands", that there is a real world they are playing in where the things they do have reprecussions, and where things are happening beyond where they are at the immediate moment.
Quote(3) What can players do that supports and aids you in doing this thing that you enjoy?
Two things: first and most importantly, make a sincere effort to portray their character.
Second, not try to impose their demands as players on the setting. This is in the sense of not doing what they call "metarol" down here (using OOC info to influence IC actions), and in the sense of not trying to do the GM's job.
Quote(4) Is there something that the players do that you, by doing this thing you like, support and aid?
This question is very awkwardly phrased. I'm not sure what you mean by it.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit(4) Is there something that the players do that you, by doing this thing you like, support and aid?
This question is very awkwardly phrased. I'm not sure what you mean by it.
RPGPundit
If I can take a shot at it:
What player behaviour is supported or encouraged best by this thing you do?
1. Sense a direction that the player is interested in heading, and take them further down that road than they maybe would have dared.
2. A game about adult pcs, who all shared a traumatic but ill-remembered childhood in a secluded cultish community, and had met up to try and uncover that past. Their relationships to each other weren't codified but free to emerge in play. I saw that one player was playing his guy as very distant and uncomfortable with the whole thing. In a dream/flashback sequence I established that young teens in the community were recruited as 'Altar Boys' to keep the kids in line and give out punishments - which was exactly what that guys character had been called in the past. This took his remoteness and stretched it into complicity - meaty stuff to play with. However, if he wasn't obviously interested in being placed in tension with the rest of the group, this wouldn't have been cool - nor would going far far beyond, like establishing him as a total raving monster.
3. As with Tony's thing, players have to be open, but they don't need to put their finger on a specific want. If their IC portrayal is trying to get at something, or OOC they're giving some relevant table talk, those are the seeds I need - the whole point is to take ill-formed ideas and cohere them. The player also needs to be resilient enough to accept a little risk - whether adding to their backstory, or some in-game temptation, this technique is all about shaping a character, pushing it out of a comfort zone and discovering limits.
4. Players care about characters that are have been defined by in-game events; sometimes they have a concept of what they want (troubled, divided loyalties, or a hot-head who makes a big mistake) but it's not always easy to put this into practise in-game. My job is to take their intent and make it real, and tie it all in with the in-game reality, and just as importantly, the arcs of other characters.
Nice thread!
I like to geek out with random generation tables when I create encounters in dungeons, wilderness etc. I like to create NPC's that the players are going to be interacting with on a regular basis; what they look like and wear, where they're from.
Quote from: Mystery ManI like to geek out with random generation tables when I create encounters in dungeons, wilderness etc.
Why?
P.S. I'm not saying "wrong!", I'm really curious why you think this works for you?
Quote from: blakkieWhy?
P.S. I'm not saying "wrong!", I'm really curious why you think this works for you?
It gets the creative flowing. For instance, if I'm sitting there and can't think of something to put in a room, I'll start generating room contents pick and choose what's cool and then start building on my own from there.
One of the things I just can't stand is trying to think up suitable treasure for encounters, random tables are a life saver and sometimes even I'm surprised at what my players will end up with, plus I can modify and build on it.
Quote from: TonyLBOkay, none of this namby-pamby "I like to make the players happy" or even the hard-core (but vague) "I like to torture the players and watch them squeal" nonsense. If anyone jumps into this thread without at least peripherally addressing the following specific questions I will mock them mercilessly. You have been warned. Here are the questions:
(1) What specifically do you do as a GM that gives you satisfaction and pleasure?
(2) What is a concrete example of doing this right, and how does that compare with doing it almost-right?
(3) What can players do that supports and aids you in doing this thing that you enjoy?
(4) Is there something that the players do that you, by doing this thing you like, support and aid?
1: Make the world real and the characters in it come alive. Set the challenges up so that the PCs extend and surpass themselves when confronted by them. Feed back PC ideas and actions into the world so that they change it as the world changes them.
2: In my current Face-to-Face In Harm;s Way campaign, the PCs (American Naval Officers) learned that the USS Philadelphia had been captured by the Tripolitanians and given the mission of rectifying the situation. Meeting with young Stephen Decatur, they learned of his plan to slip into the harbor and burn the Philadelphia, which was surrounded by about twenty ships of the Tripolitanian fleet. They talked it over, and agreed to a modified plan. Eventually, they ended up ransoming the Philadelphia's crew with their own money, then attacking the fortifications with barrels of naptha and oil dropped from hot air balloons drifting in from the desert, while slipping into the harbor in small boats, cutting out the Philadelphia, and burning most of the Tripolitanian fleet at anchor. The scene was amazing! They also made sure that Decatur got full credit for his part, while ensuring that Bainbridge had a chance to redeem himself for giving up the frigate. They had forgotten to allow for the balloons gaining height as the incendiaries were dropped, and had some losses as a result, but the plan was brilliant, stunning, and workable, and executed smartly. They were suitably rewarded by an adoring nation.
3: Being their characters. Coming up with wild ideas and schemes. Being braver than the bravest and willing to risk their own character's lives if necessary for what matters to them. Going out there and doing! Being willing to take all the crap and impossible things I throw at them and turn them around so that they top me. My players are just the best!
4: Yes. They can - and do - keep upping the ante on the situation I set, so that when they do succeed, it's an amazing thing!
-clash
Quote from: Mystery ManI like to geek out with random generation tables when I create encounters in dungeons, wilderness etc. I like to create NPC's that the players are going to be interacting with on a regular basis; what they look like and wear, where they're from.
As required by the first post, I am now mercilessly mocking you ... particularly your little peep-hole avatar! What kind of sick ... uh ... sicko are you, you ... uh.
Man, I'm no good at this. Just give a more elaborate answer, huh?
Quote from: Christmas ApeIf I can take a shot at it:
What player behaviour is supported or encouraged best by this thing you do?
Well, if that is what the original question was meant to be, and I think you might have it there, what they are encouraged to do is to treat their own character as a living and individual personality, that may often have different desires and goals than what they would have as a player.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Mystery ManIt gets the creative flowing. For instance, if I'm sitting there and can't think of something to put in a room, I'll start generating room contents pick and choose what's cool and then start building on my own from there.
One of the things I just can't stand is trying to think up suitable treasure for encounters, random tables are a life saver and sometimes even I'm surprised at what my players will end up with, plus I can modify and build on it.
I love random tables for these same reasons. Nothing encourages creativity and gets you thinking beyond what you would usually come up with yourself than adding some random descriptive element.
RPGPundit
I love to put difficult choices in my games. Really difficult.
Say My players are at a convienence store (this is something I've actually used) a Hispanic Man comes in to rob the place. The man behind the counter mutters some racial slurs at him before getting in a lucky crack with a baseball bat. Instead of calling the police the man comes out from behind the counter and begins beating the unconcious man repeatedly with the baseball bat.
If they don't intervene, the would-be robber will die. It's obvious the clerk is a racist who is taking out his aggressions on the now helpless man.
OKay so what do you do?
Quote from: KrakaJakI love to put difficult choices in my games. Really difficult.
Okay. What do the players do that can help you do this?
What is the benefit to the players of your doing this? What does it help them do in turn?
My favorite part?
Just making shit up, on the spot.
In one game, the players asked "what's in the Emporium here", and I foolishly responded "everything that you could imagine fitting in the space!"
One of them declared finding a sparkly blue rubber cube. With a handle. And asked the counter-person what it was.
"It's a landing chock for a dirigible, so that they don't ding the landing spires. That one is part of a lot used by Blue Lines Cruises."
I opened my mouth, it came out.
I love that part.
So, Levi ... where are the synergies with the other people at the table? What do they do that helps you get to this bit? How do you, by doing your bit, help them?
Quote from: TonyLBSo, Levi ... where are the synergies with the other people at the table? What do they do that helps you get to this bit? How do you, by doing your bit, help them?
They question part of the world (often by adding little things to it), and I make up the detail whatever they're questioning.
It's good for them because it lets them point at whatever they like and go "details!", and get them, and act on them.
Also, it's like a little mini-game, called "stump the GM" - it's not a safe game to play, though, since if I'd been really stumped, I would have responed "He tells you.
What does he tell you?"
Quote from: TonyLBOkay. What do the players do that can help you do this?
What is the benefit to the players of your doing this? What does it help them do in turn?
Players can help me do this by playing rationaly. If they play fuck all characters, or to provide OOC comic relief or just a stat-block it will ruin the impact a situation like that is capable of.
Given RPG characters are usually some extension of the player themselves, and as a fantasy it helps them by allowing them to apply there own morality or the morality they are exploring to the test in a safe way. Hopefully spawning them to think about the choice they made in-game outside of the game and hopefully giving them.
It also gives their character a scope of dimension. Having your character put in a situation like that can create a personality to them.
It also helps establish that the choices they make in game really matter. That my games are more about their players' characters' character then how bad ass they are.
I do apply this rarely, but when I do, I relish in it. It also applies to any kind of player. It doesn't matter if you're a Munchkin with all the power in the world. The real question is, what do you do with it :)
Quote from: Levi KornelsenIt's good for them because it lets them point at whatever they like and go "details!", and get them, and act on them.
That's ... still rather something
you're doing, isn't it? I think what I'm trying to get at is ... what does a richly detailed world let the players do
apart from simply hearing the details?
Quote from: TonyLBwhat does a richly detailed world let the players do apart from simply hearing the details?
1. Clear up their picture of the world - detailing puts us more and more on the same page as to the content of the fiction, letting them add their own stuff and their own actions with more confidence.
2. 'Flag' the kind of stuff they dig. If they look around for funny stonework all the time, I'm gonna put some in, sooner or later.
Ah! Now when you point out that having more details lets them create material in the game with more confidence, that's just the kind of "What does it let the players do?" stuff I'm talking about. Thanks! Sorry for pestering you about it ... but not too sorry, because it got results :D
Quote from: TonyLB(1) What specifically do you do as a GM that gives you satisfaction and pleasure?
The best part of my job is creating an atmosphere where the players get so caught up in the
action that their original character concepts begin to
morph into something else.
Quote(2) What is a concrete example of doing this right, and how does that compare with doing it almost-right?
In Harms Way. Most of the players had a pretty good idea of what they wanted from the campaign (okay so far just a series of adventures :D ), they had more or less kinda off determined how their relationship on board the ship would be. Two pcs - the captain and the ship's doctor - kind of envisioned an
Aubrey/
Maturin dynamic.
Play begins. Professional and ideological ambition cross swords. The whole crew (other pcs) are torn between two charismatic individuals. The hoped for
Aubrey/
Maturin dynamic is slowly brewing into a
Blythe/
Fletcher Christian confrontation.
Quote(3) What can players do that supports and aids you in doing this thing that you enjoy?
Being as interested in the game as I am.
Quote(4) Is there something that the players do that you, by doing this thing you like, support and aid?
It about how passionate they are about the game. If we are in the zone, all things are possible. I know this really does not make much sense, but hey, it's the only answer I got.
Regards,
David R
1. I like to provide a seamless, vibrant world. I like to feel like I've become one with the setting and that my players can explore that world on their own terms, always finding something facinating and challenging to do no matter where they look.
2. Doing it right is self-explanitory. Doing it almost right? I would point to subtle (or not-so-subtle) efforts to keep the PCs "on track" toward whatever adventure that you would prefer they pursue. Railroading, in other words.
3. Be proactive, dammit! This isn't some Final Fantasy clusterfuck, so don't just sit around waiting for me to tell you what the next plot point is.
4. They get to make the world their own. Set any goals they like and pursue them any way they like.
Quote from: TonyLB(1) What specifically do you do as a GM that gives you satisfaction and pleasure?
I like it when the world reacts to the characters' actions, putting a personal spin on the threats in the world.
Quote(2) What is a concrete example of doing this right, and how does that compare with doing it almost-right?
Without going into extreme detail, the party once maimed a young dragon to prevent it from escaping. 20 years later they came across him again. He'd turned his hatred of adventurers into a pattern of joining parties (polymorphed) and then killing them when they made a big score.
Doing this partially right would have involved making the dragon a rumor or a member of another group. I had him join their group for maximum screw factor.
Quote(3) What can players do that supports and aids you in doing this thing that you enjoy?
Act realistically for the character. If you slip into video game dungeon crawl mode I start to lose interest fast unless the dungeon has some really nice tactical challenges in it.
Quote(4) Is there something that the players do that you, by doing this thing you like, support and aid?
My players look for every advantage they can find in the world. That gives me plenty of opportunities to slip the fun repercussions in.
Quote from: TonyLBAs required by the first post, I am now mercilessly mocking you ... particularly your little peep-hole avatar! What kind of sick ... uh ... sicko are you, you ... uh.
Man, I'm no good at this. Just give a more elaborate answer, huh?
I'm no good at elaborating. I'd rather have some fries and a steak. :frenchfries: :steak:
Quote from: David RIn Harms Way. Most of the players had a pretty good idea of what they wanted from the campaign (okay so far just a series of adventures :D ), they had more or less kinda off determined how their relationship on board the ship would be. Two pcs - the captain and the ship's doctor - kind of envisioned an Aubrey/Maturin dynamic.
Play begins. Professional and ideological ambition cross swords. The whole crew (other pcs) are torn between two charismatic individuals. The hoped for Aubrey/Maturin dynamic is slowly brewing into a Blythe/Fletcher Christian confrontation.
David, that utterly rocks! The potential for great gaming there is awesome!
:D
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceDavid, that utterly rocks! The potential for great gaming there is awesome!
:D
-clash
Thanks.
I think I'm an IHW fanboy :)
The other day I was in one of my players house. She is the one who keeps most of our rpgs. Amongst all the d20 and Wotc(and a lot of TSR) stuff, there were games like
Cold Space,
Nicotine Girls,
Sorceror (which I wasn't even aware we had)....it's kind of thrilling really, it's like discovering
S&M stuff peeking out of the regular porn the girl you are currently seeing keeps in her room :D
Regards,
David R
I like creating a puzzle for my players and leaving clues for them, seeing how many they need to jump to the right conclusion. I like creating a good SF setting with as much logic and consistency as possible, and seeing the players explore it and find it interesting.
I also like using people I dislike as NPC villians in my games, as I did with andy hackard at a convention traveller game I ran in october.
I also like adapting a GOOD SF plot into a good adventure.
Quote from: David RThanks.
I think I'm an IHW fanboy :)
Thanks, David, glad you're enjoying it! :D
Quote from: David RThe other day I was in one of my players house. She is the one who keeps most of our rpgs. Amongst all the d20 and Wotc(and a lot of TSR) stuff, there were games like Cold Space, Nicotine Girls, Sorceror (which I wasn't even aware we had)....it's kind of thrilling really, it's like discovering S&M stuff peeking out of the regular porn the girl you are currently seeing keeps in her room :D
Regards,
David R
Hehe! That's an interesting collection. I like your simile. :D
-clash