I really don't like the Palladium system, but I have the original Robotech, Ninjas and Superspies, and Mystic China. I'll eventually get the new Robotech stuff. I really like the Eric Wujcik stuff.
So my question is... what are the best books produced by Palladium? What's good and worthwhile?
TMNT and other strangeness, After the Bomb, Heros Unlimited, and Rifts.
What makes Heroes Unlimited any good? How does it compare to TSR's Marvel game or M&M?
Palladium Fantasy 1st Edition, Mystic China, and the Mechanoids.
Let me rephrase the question. What's good and why?
Quote from: brettmb;262095Let me rephrase the question. What's good and why?
I view the Palladium core system as D20 for combat, percentile for skills and everything else is hand-wavium. Its a bit of adjustment to say "balance doesn't matter" and keep playing, but once you do, their games are a lot of fun. My favs are Mechanoids, Nightbane, Rifts and Splicers.
Mechanoids was Kevin's first RPG and the rules are very simple, about the same difficulty as Star Frontiers. The Mechanoids are great villains and the game has a strong sense of high drama.
Nightbane is WoD with double the action, half the angst.
Rifts is the ultimate kitchen sink RPG. Many of the worldbooks have tremendous flavor and just scream out for adventures. I suggest flipping through Wormwood, Atlantis and Madhaven.
Splicers is BioGuyver + Terminator + Dune. You are augmented humans wearing living powered armor battling against an overwhelming army of killer robots while dodging the political issues within your Great House. Easily more creative scifi setting I have seen since Fading Suns.
If you want more info on any of these four games, ask away. I am very clear on the ups and downs of Palladium games. Their strength is their setting, not their system. My strong support of them is based on how much fun I have running their games for full tables at conventions where everyone had a laugh out loud good time.
TMNT&OS/AtB is their best game. New Robotech is their best rulebook (and a pretty decent RPG itself).
TMNT is awesome for it 's quick, varied and highly entertaining character creation system. It also holds the distinction of being Level based but not class based.
Robotech is the best rulebook because it finally presents the Palladium system in a way it can be understood your first time reading it. Finally, Palladiums only weakness (in my opinion), has been patched.
On the whole, I like that you can mix and match bits and peices from every game book. The combat is fast and furious. Every book and setting is vibrant and full of adventure!
Palladium fantasy is held in pretty high esteem by others. I don't like it, but I think it has more to do with the genre then anything else (I'm mostly put off by fantasy in general, save for the Hobbit, Terry Pratchett and Amber).
Heroes unlimited I think is awesome fr the same reason's TMNT is: Entertaining varied and easy character creation. You can have a whole group ready to go in an hour. Not the same in Mutants and Masterminds. Also, you can't die or lose in Mutant's and Masterminds, so there's no real threat of danger.
TMNT & Other Strangeness is their best game, though it really benefits from also having Ninjas & Superspies and Beyond the Supernatural handy to pull encounters from.
Heroes Unlimited is pretty crappy, but useful for supplementing TMNT. If you're actually looking for a supers system, and HU seems appealing, I would check out Villains & Vigilantes instead.
TMNT is probably Palladium's best game. The goofiness of the genre covers up a lot of the goofiness of the system. Palladium Fantasy is also very good for a D&D alternative. Robotech is great because it gives you information to play in the Robotech universe. After playing or at least being familiar with a number of Palladium games, Heroes Unlimited is great because it gives you a pretty decent tool kit to customize your other Palladium games. A number of people say the same about Ninjas and Superspies and Mystic China. Rifts is a great setting but amps the benefits and the problems of the system to 11 for trying to incorporate so many genre specific rules with the universal core rules into one game.
Palladium's genre specific books are fairly good footnotes and outlines for creating a campaign within the genre. Heroes Unlimited gives you the tools to fine tune the game to you and your gaming group's preference. I probably wouldn't suggest Heroes Unlimited over Marvel or other superhero games, but it is one of the few Palladium products I haven't been able to give up for it's potential to supplement other products I like better like Robotech or TMNT.
Quote from: brettmb;262093What makes Heroes Unlimited any good? How does it compare to TSR's Marvel game or M&M?
In a straight super hero game. M&M 2nd ed, is better. I think it handles the genre better. But HU can be a be a very fun game. I think it captures the feel of a hero game very well. Not to mention Heros Unlimited is pretty much the only book you need to run any kind of game using the Pally system. Besides supers games, I've used it run Mecha games, Supernatural Hunters, and sorts of stuff.
Although I disagree with KrakJak about ease of character creation. Its not hard mind you it just takes a little time. My experience has been opposite, with M&M being quick, and pally taking a while.
For me, TMNTaOS is one of the five top games ever made. The character generation is a total blast - Bio-E is brilliant, and the sheer in-your-face-exuberance and joy of the game shines through on every page. This is what Palladium does best, BTW - attitude! After the Bomb is basically TMNT without the IP issues and is also awesome, though not quite as much as TMNTaOS!
The other games I use as filler for TMNT games.
-clash
Systems Failure was a hoot - the Y2k bug turned out to be extra-dimensional bug-shaped aliens that can convert into energy. 10 years later, humanity is a hunted slave race ready for rebellion.
Is there anything at all good in Pallladium Fantasy? Is the system pretty much the same in all books?
It's not horrible, but like any game you'll take some stuff, and leave some stuff. Since you're not really sold on the system, and who can blame you, it comes down to whether anything in the setting catches your attention. TMNT has a great eighties feel, and is fun in a over the top sort of way. (Same goes for Ninjas&Superspies, and Rifts.) I don't the Palladium Fantasy game is the worst game out there, but I certainly wouldn't use it full time.
Quote from: brettmb;262299Is there anything at all good in Pallladium Fantasy? Is the system pretty much the same in all books?
I could see Palladium fantasy being an awesome alternative to AD&D. At least at the time. A bunch of crazy Monster races, a re-tooled Alignment system (which is the same alignment system in all Palladium games). Different magic system. The best Armor mechanic in a RPG ever. However, I didn't read Palladium fantasy till 2007 and it didn't do much better than anything that hadn't come since.
As for your second question, yes the rulesets are basically the same across all of the books. There are two different flavors of rules, Mega-Damage (Rifts, Robotech) and SDC (Standard Damage Capacity - TMNT&OS, Palladium Fantasy). Some games have their own genre specific rules.
RIFTS has it all the genre specific rules mashed together.
I've always been curious about Palladium Fantasy, but never had the inspiration to buy. I don't think I ever will ;)
But, like I mentioned, I do want to get the new Robotech stuff. I'll look for cheap copies of TMNTaOS and Rifts on ebay.
Does the new Robotech stuff at least look prettier (layout, etc.) than the original material?
I don't get much time to play, since my own games need attention, but I occasionally like to get new print books for bathroom reading :teehee:
Quote from: brettmb;262299Is there anything at all good in Pallladium Fantasy? Is the system pretty much the same in all books?
Palladium Fantasy is pretty much the definition of a fantasy heartbreaker.
It's 1E D&D, except it addresses some of the problems with D&D -- lack of skills, no parrying or dodging, variable character speeds, multiple spell systems -- and adds a whole host of it's own idiosyncratic problems, all which are compounded by Palladium's absolute steadfast refusal to use professional layout designers. It's seriously amateurish in its production values.
There are some cool things in the game world supplements, including the main book. The coinage system is way more realistic than D&D, as an example. But it's really nothing unique or special enough to mention.
I'd say you already have some of the best.
Mystic China is my favorite Palladium book by far. Chi magic, variants of immortality, the role playing notes, the wacky demon hunters... all classic stuff I've reused in two other systems.
Ninjas & Superspies is also good. Martials arts, chi magic, the humorous take on contacts and covers, and spy cyberware built a vision of high flying action-espionage that seemed like a lot of fun.
Lastly TMNT&OS still is somewhat unrivaled in the genre it staked out... the anthropomorphic animal genre. I still have yet to encounter a game that presents such a menagerie of animals for use as characters so effectively.
RIFTS Atlantis also inspired me to rip off liberally. The history of the Atlanteans, tattoo magic, the alien metropolis of the Splugorth, bio-magic, and rune magic also painted a cool picture of a world that sounds like tons of fun to game in.
Somedays, I think if I could ever get a group that could grasp HERO, I'd stat up the RIFTS stuff in HERO and use it to run a bang up game. It's about the only system I can think of that would really capture the RIFTS feel without the wonky mechanics.
I dig Palladium Fantasy 1st ed. The game screams fun and has such amazing energy and wahooness in it! If you can buy it used cheap, I recommend picking it up. I picked up a used copy for $3. Great buy!
The reason I like it:
1. Active defense - Roll >= attacker's roll to parry it or dodge it. Same in all games.
2. Well-defined alignment system. Same in all games.
3. A very good objective experience system. Same in all games.
4. Wolfen. These critters just rock.
5. Very different types of magic systems.
6. Self-contained in one book. All those supplementary books are gravy.
7. The art is just cool but I enjoy cartoony art.
One gaffe I remember was that there were no rules for shields in the first ed. Nada, zip, "oops, forgot to be included".
The past two Christmases, I have bought Palladium's gift basket and got some great books. A good deal!
What, nobody mentions these :
- Book IV - Adventures in the Northern Wilderness
- Book V - Further Adventures in the Northern Wilderness
- Wolfen Empire
- Book X - Mount Nimro.
Regards,
David R
What is Rifts Conversion?
Quote from: brettmb;262348What is Rifts Conversion?
Basically, taking a rifts book gathering almost everything else published by Palladium and providing conversions making it usable in RIFTS.
As is the norm for RIFTS, very uneven. But it's really dense, giving you tons of options. For a second, it almost had me considering using it for a one-off game with my kids, one who wanted to play a fairy, the other who wanted to play a wizard.
After buying Robotech and a few supplements in the 80's, I avoided Palladium like the plague. Now that you find a lot of it dirt cheap, I figure what the hell.
Thanks.
I love Palladium. Nightbane is my favorite setting. It is just as uneven as Rifts, if not more so... but I like it because it has character. The classes are exactly what the designers wanted them to be... a scientist is just how it should be, and a supernatural spell slinging world hopper is just what it should be. You can decide to play as either, but one of the options has a lot fewer options.
One nice feature of Palladium's fantasy world is that the elves and dwarves border on extinction. They destroyed each other's kindgdoms long ago and live among humans. There are no elven or dwarven nations or armies. The world is divided between human empires and the growing wolfen empire in the north.
There's still plenty of orcs and goblins around too.
So you can do most of the normal fantasy stuff or ignore it at your leisure while letting PCs be elves and dwarfs if they must.
Quote from: brettmb;262088I really don't like the Palladium system, but I have the original Robotech, Ninjas and Superspies, and Mystic China. I'll eventually get the new Robotech stuff. I really like the Eric Wujcik stuff.
So my question is... what are the best books produced by Palladium? What's good and worthwhile?
Add TMNT & After the Bomb, and you've pretty much listed my favorites.
Quote from: REZcat;263338Add TMNT & After the Bomb, and you've pretty much listed my favorites.
I love all Palladium modern day... TMNT, Ninja and Superspies, Heroes Unlimited, and Nightbane.
Gawd do I love Nightbane.
I'll toss in my two cents for TMNT. Never ran it myself but loved playing it. The mutant creation process alone was fun to do. Add in the crazy setting and NPCs supplied in the main book and it's a winner. Not to mention art work by Eastman and Liard in the original book (I think a few others as well but it's been years).
I've never used the vast plethora of RIFTS books out there: I use precisely three RIFTS books as my "core": the main book, the GM guide, and the Conversion book.
Aside from those, the only other RIFTS books I own are the multiverse guide book (which I'm still unsure of how good or bad it might be, haven't had the chance to use it yet) and Mutants in Orbit (which is awesome).
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;264048I've never used the vast plethora of RIFTS books out there: I use precisely three RIFTS books as my "core": the main book, the GM guide, and the Conversion book.
Aside from those, the only other RIFTS books I own are the multiverse guide book (which I'm still unsure of how good or bad it might be, haven't had the chance to use it yet) and Mutants in Orbit (which is awesome).
RPGPundit
Mutants in Orbit is a TMNT source book, all of which are superb. The multiverse guide may be a TMNT sourcebook as well. All the paladium games used the same system and could use each others sourcebooks.
-clash
I'm fond of Beyond the Supernatural, although the lack of support the system gets is nearly criminal. :)
I'm fond of the first book because it's great 1980's level monster-hunting fun - you've got a fire psychic and a guy with a magic ghost detector that he built in his basement and an old professor who can cast some spells - they go out and find the wierdness and horror hiding in america and hunt it down. In addition to that there was even a section with an unpowered class for playing similar to CoC, with plain normal folks dealing with ghosts, and some really off the wall senarios.
I'm fond of the second book because it's the first book turned up to 11, but set solidly in the real world. No one's abilities works unless they're close enough to some sort of weird horrible creature, so it makes perfect sense that the telekinetic doesn't float his way down to James Randi's house and claim the one million dollar prize - that telekinetic talent only really works when something's trying to eat your brain. And where before you had people with cobbled together psychic equipment and the like, now you've got people who shoot psychic bullets out of guns and other hard-line action movie stunts. It's like psychic superheroes who only can use their abilities when it's gone pear-shaped. It's a real shame none of the promised expansions to the book every appeared - the magic-using class is completely shafted because there's no spells to use.
Actually, Mutants in Orbit is a combined sourcebook for RIFTS and TMNT.
RPGPundit
TMNT is a great implementation of the rules wrapped around a fun and as the cover says, strange setting.
RIFTS for sheer setting potential. The way the rules were used may not be as great as TMNT, but it still plays well if you're familiar with them. And if you can't, you still have a setting that's brilliant for badass over the top everything-plus-the-kitchen-sink-and-a-few-things-you-forgot action fests.
Quote from: jcfiala;264117I'm fond of the second book because it's the first book turned up to 11, but set solidly in the real world. No one's abilities works unless they're close enough to some sort of weird horrible creature, so it makes perfect sense that the telekinetic doesn't float his way down to James Randi's house and claim the one million dollar prize - that telekinetic talent only really works when something's trying to eat your brain. And where before you had people with cobbled together psychic equipment and the like, now you've got people who shoot psychic bullets out of guns and other hard-line action movie stunts. It's like psychic superheroes who only can use their abilities when it's gone pear-shaped. It's a real shame none of the promised expansions to the book every appeared - the magic-using class is completely shafted because there's no spells to use.
Boo ya. The second book's approach, which I find brilliant, is panned by people who were expecting the powerless victim horror often found with the first book. This second book is about heroes who choose to stand up and fight. The explanations for how the supernatural exist yet remain hidden are creative and make you wonder why they haven't been done before. I consider this game Siembieda's masterpiece - it's the game that made me fall in love with Palladium again.
Quote from: RPGPundit;264218Actually, Mutants in Orbit is a combined sourcebook for RIFTS and TMNT.
RPGPundit
I believe there are two version of the book. One was released before Rifts came out and the a revised one afterwards. I could be wrong though, because as I've said before it's been years since I played TMNT.
Quote from: peteramthor;264583I believe there are two version of the book. One was released before Rifts came out and the a revised one afterwards. I could be wrong though, because as I've said before it's been years since I played TMNT.
No. The book has always been a combined TMNT/Rifts sourcebook. The Glitter Boy on the cover, as well as the variant Glitter Boys inside should be a bit of a hint.
The first printing was March of 1992 (Rifts first appearred in 1990). Although currently listed as "After The Bomb Book 6", the original publication says nothing of the sort. It's labelled: "An adventure & sourcebook for After the Bomb & Rifts," and it was originally advertised as a Rifts book compatible with TMNT. It's part of the early days of Rifts stuff, along with Vampire Kingdoms, Sourcebook One, Atlantis, and England. It was notable at the time because it contained the revelation of what the date was in the world of Rifts, and when the apocalypse occurred.
The book is neatly split between the TMNT ethos and what makes Rifts popular. The TMNT stuff is almost entirely exemplified by new creature types for characters in that game. The Rifts stuff consists of mecha and haphazard starship construction rules.
It was a fairly blatant attempt to create some cross-game fans. It was intended to get TMNT fans to convert to Rifts, and Rifts fans to pick up the (then) poorly selling TMNT. I think it did it's job moderately well, because it's fairly consistently in the Palladium back catalog. Although now its job is to boost sales of the TMNT2/After The Bomb RPG (AtB is probably the only reason the book has been reprinted in recent years).
Gabriel2 is right, only one version of the book that I am aware of.
Yes, and the setting material (for either game) is really excellent.
RPGPundit
Quote from: peteramthor;264583I believe there are two version of the book. One was released before Rifts came out and the a revised one afterwards. I could be wrong though, because as I've said before it's been years since I played TMNT.
TMNT Guide to the Universe is a space book that is strictly a TMNT supplement (although still usable with other games in the Palladium system). It covers Utroms, Triceratons, Fugitoid, etc. There are rules for space combat and vehicle construction. The setting covers a LOT bigger stretch of space than Mutants in Orbit does.
TMNT Guide to the Universe was out way before Rifts, so maybe you're confusing it with Mutants in Orbit.
Anyways, to the OP's question: TMNT is by far the best Palladium game in my opinion. The supplements are all quality as well. Transdimensional TMNT, Mutants Down Under, TMNT Adventures, and Mutants in Avalon being my favorites. Heroes Unlimited and Ninjas and Superspies are both good, and highly useful as supplement for TMNT or on their own. I've tried Robotech and Rifts and neither really grabbed me. I just recently picked up Mechanoids and Palladium Fantasy 1st Ed. I haven't finished reading them yet. They're both interesting from a historical perspective and seeing how the Palladium rules evolved. In terms of getting me fired up to play it, Mechanoids is doing a lot more than PFRPG. I'd be interested in getting a copy of 1st Edition Beyond the Supernatural.
None of the games released post-Rifts has really done anything for me.
Splicers...eh.
Rifts: Chaos Earth- neat idea but the books are really very light on actual gaming material.
Systems Failure- I liked a lot in terms of the post-apoc feel, but character generation is too bloated, and the bugs didn't grab me as bad guys.
One thing I've noticed with the new editions of old games- Heroes Unlimited and Beyond the Supernatural, Palladium has tried to follow the D&D model of having multiple core books needed for play. Pick up a copy of HU2 and you're good to go right? Well not if you want some equipment, for that you need the GM's Guide. You pick up Beyond the Supernatural 2 and want some monsters or magic spells? For that you need some more supplements, which have never been printed.
The earlier games did a great job of putting everything in one medium sized book for a reasonable price.
I am intrigued by Dead Reign, which comes out his month, but my experience whith recent Palladium products makes me want to wait till I see a copy before deciding to buy or not.