Be it books, dice, miniatures, etc., what is it that you've ended up going a bit too crazy on? What product line did you buy way more stuff for than you ever actually used?
It was years ago (Late 80s to mid 90s), but probably the Rolemaster/Spacemaster line.
I bought loads of stuff I never used. but it's ok, as it was all a fun read.
The same for The White Wolf Vampire, Mage, Werewolf line and it's supporting products in the 90s.
I bought Lots of stuff I didn't need or use.
I spent several thousand on the old Confrontation miniatures line when Rackham started to change over to crap pre-paints. I did play a good bit of the game but I've still got boxes of the figures un-opened.
I've got way more World of Darkness books than my interest in that setting would explain... but nearly all of them were free in some way or another. They take up too much space but I'm reluctant to part with them.
Feng Shui. I have a ton books for it and have yet to run it.
Exalted 1st edition. Bought way too much stuff that I didn't need. Same goes for D&D 3ed and 4th edition, which I never got to use or play.
Quote from: RPGPundit;836465Be it books, dice, miniatures, etc., what is it that you've ended up going a bit too crazy on? What product line did you buy way more stuff for than you ever actually used?
GURPS. Bookshelves of it. But I'm glad I have the sourcebooks for sure. Inspiration for other RPGs.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;836486GURPS. Bookshelves of it.
Oh yeah, me too... but no regrets there. Those books do get used... well most of them.
Palladium stuff up till 2001: About everything Robotech/Macross, Some TMNT/ATB, Beyond the supernatural, Nightbane, Palladium, Heroes Unlimited, and lots of Rifts.
Spelljammer: Still a few holes in the collection.
Star Frontiers: same.
Gamma World: ditto.
And of course Dragon Storm. Though a good chunk of that was funding development of new stuff and setting up the side business.
D&D 3.0/3.5.
Occasionally I'll get down old 70's & 80's D&D products and read through them for inspiration for my 5th Ed. game. But the big block of mostly-crunch 3.x stuff just sit there gathering dust.
None.
I have a sometimes-too-strict RPG rule: anything I don't use in 3 years gets tossed on eBay. I do an annual culling of my library and books have justify their existence. Anything I don't play has to be useful as reference text.
The result is occasionally I have to rebuy something off eBay, but in the age of Kickstarter, I mostly just focus on new OSR-ish stuff.
I have played around considering a 5 year rule for RPGs, but if I can't be bothered to run something or read something in 36 months, how much do I really like it anyway?
Back in the early 80's I bought loads of lead miniatures of all types: fantasy characters, monsters, robots, miscellaneous things like piles of gold and chests. Ral Partha, Grenadier, Heritage. Probably used less than a third of it. Couldn't haul that stuff to college with me so they again went unused. Then I decided to leave it all behind as I moved out west then to Florida. Finally had to abandon the collection when my sister sold the family home. Still makes me sad a bit thinking about my gone collection. At least I had fun painting the things and thinking about using them. (Am I the only one who painted miniatures using toothpicks?)
AD&D modules. Bought dozens in my youth. Probably used less than a third. But then, like a book, you never know how good it will be until you open it and read it. At least I still have most of those and may use them some time.
Warmachine/Hordes and Warhammer 40k, though it's no fault of the games; I just don't have anyone to play with, locally. Since we moved here about five years ago, both armies have just been gathering dust. We're heading up to north Dallas in six-seven months or so, and will be close to a fantastic gaming store in Plano, so hopefully that will change.
Huh. Using toothpicks to paint detail on minis. I ought to try that ...
Anyway, for a few years, I bought damn near every GURPS release out of one of those 70s gamer's obsessions for Completeness. I can think of at least a dozen books I never used and scarcely opened.
Hackmaster 4E.
I didn't get into it until after it was already out of print, but then I got a bee in my bonnet to get ALL of it.
Quote from: Simlasa;836474I spent several thousand on the old Confrontation miniatures line when Rackham started to change over to crap pre-paints. I did play a good bit of the game but I've still got boxes of the figures un-opened.
Hmm, I know a fellow who just recently told me he'd been avidly hunting for Rackham minis. If you'd consider selling any of those, I'd pass on his info.
I continue to spend way too much on Warhammer...or just enough, depending on if you ask me or ask my GF....
HarnMaster. The supplements are the absolute best you can probably expect from an RPG. Even the article about pigs will be the best thing you will ever read about swine in the context of RPGs, it might even be useful and smart and adds a lot to the world building of a great setting.
Nonetheless, HarnMaster stuff is way too expensive. Don't get me wrong, the ratio between quality and price is basically in the upper 10% of RPGs (probably if you include most free stuff), but even ithough it is reliably great, 30+ € for a 60 page pdf is just too much.
I still own quite a few of HarnMaster products (including the beforementioned article about Swine) of course, but I'm quite reluctant to get any more.
I'll not count the dozens of RPGs where I've bought the book & not played it.
I have a whole shelf full of 4e D&D hardbacks. I run 4e every fortnight but few of these ever see any use, they just don't contain much gameable material beyond the monster stats, which I get from the Compendium anyway.
Last year I went on a Pathfinder buying spree and bought several complete APs; now I'm not sure if APs are a good idea at all.
I have many thousands of fantasy minis, most of those potentially see use in my 4e & Pathfinder games, but I've been moving over to cardboard pawns for my Classic D&D game.
I have a few hundred science fiction minis, I don't think I've ever used them.
How about (nearly) every single Middle Earth product that ICE ever published?
It's easier to list what I don't have! I own everything except: a couple of the jigsaws, a couple of the adventure books, the simple Lord of the Rings adventure game, one of the boardgames - Riddle of The Ring (someone else's boardgame they republished), one of the versions of the MERP boxset, one version of the combat screen, one of the versions of Arnor, and a few MECCG oddities (folders and dice).
I must have 80+ books, and thousands of cards.
The thing that got most play?
The Fellowship of The Ring boardgame – that got played to death!
Quote from: S'mon;836528Last year I went on a Pathfinder buying spree and bought several complete APs; now I'm not sure if APs are a good idea at all.
I ran MERP's "Palantir Quest" back in the mid '90s which was what they'd now call an Adventure Path. It wasn't a complete railroad to the extent that Dragonlance was, but it still effectively inoculated me against running an Adventure Path ever again! Mine them for ideas.
I have bought a lot books from Palladium Books and White Wolf Publishing (the original not OPP), probably more that it is reasonable to do but but I have not regret and I have enough room in my home to stock them.
Quote from: JoeNuttall;836532I ran MERP's "Palantir Quest" back in the mid '90s which was what they'd now call an Adventure Path. It wasn't a complete railroad to the extent that Dragonlance was, but it still effectively inoculated me against running an Adventure Path ever again! Mine them for ideas.
Thanks - yes, I think the right way to use an AP must be as a resource to mine, never get 'locked in' to actually running (or playing!) the written thing. It can be tricky though, they can easily suck you in until you find yourself on the rails.
Quote from: RPGPundit;836465Be it books, dice, miniatures, etc., what is it that you've ended up going a bit too crazy on? What product line did you buy way more stuff for than you ever actually used?
Counting all expenses, it's definitely AD&D2e that takes the crown of most money wasted on related products:).
It was one of the first RPGs I got in, if not the first. I didn't have enough experience to know I'd hate the mechanics and the GMing style, and the GM claimed it can do anything, so I got a bunch of books on it;)!
Right now (I tend to sell what I don't use/read) Call of Cthulhu is the main culprit, I have way too many books and boxes, some I didn't even open or read, just keeping them because I love the game and telling myself that I can always use them for my Laundry campaign. The sad truth is I've spent way too much time and money to track some out of print stuff to sell it all now.
Ars Magica. Although i got most of it second hand for cheaper prices, i have never got to play it. Both because my group isn't that interested and free-form magic sounds awesome in theory, but is less awesome in play IME. I've mined it for some ideas though, so it wasn't totally wasted money.
Quote from: Ravenswing;836503Huh. Using toothpicks to paint detail on minis. I ought to try that ...
Anyway, for a few years, I bought damn near every GURPS release out of one of those 70s gamer's obsessions for Completeness. I can think of at least a dozen books I never used and scarcely opened.
Better off using a pin and a self-propelling pencil. The toothpick gets soggy really fast and you have to replace a lot.
- 4E D&D
- bargain bin d20 glut stuff
- Pathfinder
When I think about it though I actually have not spent too much on Star Frontiers or Gamma World or Spelljammer. I get alot of use out of them and its been overall worth it. The only point where I felt I spent too much was on the three final modules for 4e Gamma World. And in the end buying the whole d20 GW from WW was a complete waste other than picking a few neet ideas out of. Like the community system. hmm. So maybee in the end I did spend too much on GW.
Damn you cruel completist urge! Damn you! :boohoo:
Another "Way too many GURPS books" here as well. Went crazy for them in the 90s but gradually got rid of them all after 2000.
To a lesser extent I did that with (Mega)Traveller as well. Gradually culled that mess so just the classic books remain. Nowadays we use SWN for SF gaming though.
I must cop to buying the collector's edition copies of Deathwatch and Black Crusade. My new Xbox One cost around the same amount. :o
Then again, they are really handsome books.
Quote from: JamesV;836682I must cop to buying the collector's edition copies of Deathwatch and Black Crusade. My new Xbox One cost around the same amount. :o
Then again, they are really handsome books.
I spent 200 GBP a few months back to replace my Realms of Chaos books...so its all relative...
Probably spent too much money on DC Heroes...I have nearly all the modules S well as every edition of the game. Not sure why...haven't played any of the modules as written except maybe "Gotham by Night."
Runner-up might be "classic" Traveller, but only because it cost me a lot of money to replace stuff I gave away decades ago when I thought I had "outgrown" RPGs. Gave away so much great stuff that costs so much money now...if you're even lucky enough to find a copy for sale. 😫
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;836486GURPS. Bookshelves of it. But I'm glad I have the sourcebooks for sure. Inspiration for other RPGs.
Me too BUT I'm getting back into GURPS so I think I'll be using my extensive PDF and physical library for it in the near future. :-)
Over the years I've invested in...
- The full collection of Pathfinder up to circa 2013. Gifted to the group I left so they could continue playing it.
- The full Eclipse Phase line. Played it maybe two times.
- A SWATH of BRP and Cthulu stuff. Played BRP a couple times. Only ever played CoC. Still, I feel like a REAL gamer with it on my shelf.
- I once owned every DP9 Silhouette system book including Jovian Chronicles and Tribe 8.
- I once owned a bookshelf of AD&D 2e/r stuff. Long since sold it off.
- I currently have some $500 worth of "indy" games I will likely never play.
- Piles of Unisystem Classic physical and PDF. Ran AFMBE several times, but otherwise it also sits. Was in all the Conspiracy X kickstarters.
- The "one-offs" in both physical and PDF form are too many to list here.
I'm curbing my buying habits. I have enough games to keep me occupied until roughly 2040. By then, I will have a newly cloned body and will be programming HoloDeck programs for a living, so it may have lost it's pull on me by then.
Miniatures. Dear God, miniatures.
When D&D 3.0 was released, I decided to "plan ahead" and get every d20-related product possible since it had taken so long to get caught up with all the AD&D2 stuff. In my extreme naivety, I didn't quite comprehend that the OGL/SRD would mean a literal glut of product. After about two years, I finally had to give up and focused on a few major product lines (AEG, some Green Ronin, FFG, to name a few). Out of all that stuff, probably used nothing more than the PHB...
I've got a metric crapton of Call of Cthulhu material. (See the "Shelfies" thread for evidence of that). Many editions, many supplements, many 3rd party products, many eras. I've used a fair amount of it over the decades, but I've got plenty that I haven't made use of.
I'll keep plugging away, continuing to run CoC campaigns.
I own all of the WH40K Rogue Trader and all of the Saga Edition Star Wars RPG books - have never played either game. So - way too much money.
I own all of the Ars Magica 5th edition books (40) and they are easily a dozen I've never outright used. Admittedly though I bought these books one a time for 10 years, so it was never piles of money all at once.
D&D 3.5 I bought a ton of books easily about $1000 worth and I only ever ran one game that lasted 5 sessions. I sold most of the collection and only kept the Forgotten Realms 3.X books - I quite enjoyed reading them even if I never used them.
Exalted 1E and 2E - I bought all the books and there was never really any need for that many. I used maybe about 10 books per line.
Dice. When you buy 1 and 2 lb bags, well...there's a problem.
Most of my cash was blown on various D&D stuff of all iterations. Now...basic book, some chits and tokens, and the wet erase mat (and sometimes not even that).
Quote from: cranebump;836872Dice. When you buy 1 and 2 lb bags, well...there's a problem.
Most of my cash was blown on various D&D stuff of all iterations. Now...basic book, some chits and tokens, and the wet erase mat (and sometimes not even that).
Are these those "random dice in a box/bag/cylinder" things I've seen at Target and such places? Sometimes they seem to have some cool unusual symbol dice mixed in there.
EBay. And man, oh, man do I have a lot of speckled d10's now.
gaming store...
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;836486GURPS. Bookshelves of it. But I'm glad I have the sourcebooks for sure. Inspiration for other RPGs.
Same here for 3rd ed.
Quote from: Simlasa;836489Oh yeah, me too... but no regrets there. Those books do get used... well most of them.
Funny. I actually impressed an Indonesian friend when I mentioned the Penjak Silat fighting style. He was surprised I even knew about it. GURPS FTW.
All the games I've bought. I go all out when I get as many as I can.
Well, let's see.
#1 is most certainly GURPS. I have almost never played GURPS, but I've got tons of the sourcebooks. I've been grateful at the lack of exposure that GURPS 4th has had in the local area, as I've been much less tempted to buy it.
#2 is probably D&D 4th edition. I did play a little of it - my wife ran an adventure for my home group and we tried out the encounters for a little while. But I've got a ton of these books that I've never really used, and I'm not sure if I'm going to try to sell them off or use them for kindling. (Or, more likely, just drop them off at ARC thrift store and wash my hands of them.)
#3 Would be Call of Cthulhu, but honestly I keep running the damn game, and I keep using the books I get. I can't say I've used every book I've ever gotten for the game, but enjoyment and inspiration counts for a fair bit with the game.
(Somewhere in the list would be kickstarter's I've backed and never gotten something from. :)
*Sigh!* Let me count the ways...
- I've got an almost full set of 1st Edition Exalted. Except for the first book I don't think I ever cracked a spine (and reading about the game's complexity I doubt I'll ever read it beyond the fluff).
- I've got an almost full set of 1st Edition Tribe 8 (missing the maps). This one is even more daunting to read, as the fluff here is fragmentary by different voices.
- the list of RPG.net darlings goes on...
- D&D 3.0. WotC only sold me 3 books (PHB, DMG, MM), but I don't think there's a third party publisher whom I didn't make a buck. Luckily I went cold turkey once 3.5 came out. I did start a campaign but I gave up around Level 5 because keeping track of characters and NPC's became too complex.
Correction: during my 4E Eberron campaign I also bought every 3.5 Eberron expansion available.
- D&D 4.0. Completist. Well, at least I got some use out of that though I really didn't need all those Power cards.
Quote from: Christopher BradyAll the games I've bought. I go all out when I get as many as I can.
Ditto. + miniature Kickstarters.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;836810Miniatures. Dear God, miniatures.
Oh yeah. That's one of my past money sinks too. That mania started for me in the 80s. I'm talking I have the kind actually made with lead. I have boxes of 1st and 2nd ed. 40K Minis that I haven't used in decades along with even more boxes of random stuff picked up over the years. Starships, vehicles and grunts from 6mm to 30mm. Hm... Now I wonder where my 1st ed. Gamma World minis went off to.
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e stuff - I bought most of the game line, ran a short campaign set in Middenheim, and that was about it.
Warhammer 40K RPG lines - For a short Dark Heresy campaign, I ended up buying most of Dark Heresy. I played in one session of Rogue Trader and ran a one-shot of Deathwatch, but somehow ended up buying the core books for the later games (Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Only War, Black Crusade, etc.) until I realized I had at least a foot of shelf space of incredibly thick books I hadn't even the time to read.
Bones II was a mistake.
When I was a young teen in the '90s I was obsessed with getting all of the TSR settings. I don't fully regret that, but a larger-than-justifiable percentage of my discretionary income went to chasing their glut.
Of recent purchases, the one I most regret is the MCG Superfan tier for Monte Cook Games' Strange Kickstarter. Love the game, but the Superfan Package was a ripoff. (You paid a $200 premium. You got less than $200 in additional material.)
I also regret The Slumbering Tsar from Frog God Games. Spent $150 on it on the strength of Rappan Athuk and I still haven't read more than three sentences out of it. It's just... ridiculously huge in a way that makes it almost impossible to conceive of using.
(Unlike, say, Ptolus or Rappan Athuk. Which are also ridiculously huge, but largely organized and written in ways that make them easy to use.)
EDIT: Does the ENWorld kickstarter count? Because that's actually the biggest regret. Morrus is a scam artist who has failed to fulfill my rewards and simply stopped responding to e-mails.
I got well carried away with Lamentations of the Flame Princess a couple of years ago. The Grindhouse edition lead to a string of if-LoTFP-kickstarts-it-I'll-throw-money-after-it and in the now infamous and neverending delays, I sort of got bored with it and discovered, that the fights in the system where rather boring (lotta whiff factor!) and a lot of the books way to gonzo for my taste... so now, as I still wait for a couple of late-late-fucking-late books, I'm considering putting most of it up for sale and just hanging on to Vornheim and Better than Any Man.
If I had to really pick a system/game that I really binged on, though...
I'd have to say Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. I bought EVERYTHING for that game line, except Cybergenerations. That was it, though. Everything else I got.
I'm a collector with some 60+ linear feet of shelf space dedicated to RPG books and boxed sets. The largest chunk of a single system would be D20, specifically 3.5/PF. I also have far more dice than I will ever need.
I've gotten tons of use out of most of my gaming stuff.
But a few years back, I decided I needed the entire run of Street Fighter: the Storytelling Game and I laid out what was-- for me-- a pretty serious sum of money for them. I've only run two short-lived campaigns with it.
I bought complete sets of RMFRP, Spacemaster: Privateers, and Rolemaster Classic and I've never run any of them. This was back when I was trying to develop third-party supplements for ICE.
Everything ever published for the DC Heroes RPG (all editions), Buck Rogers XXVC and Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game (Marvel Saga), regardless of cost. It's one of those 'see it buy it' and not even pausing to think of whether it will ever see use or even be opened.
Also bought up every pre 5E version of D&D save the first (OD&D) one even though I've not played D&D in decades and the only version I ever considered running again was BECMI, which I owned in a battered well thumbed and barely held together state from my school days. Nostalgia? Idiocy? God knows. At least it was cheap.
Well, some of it anyway.
EDIT: And though I've purged several times, selling stuff because she who must be obeyed demanded it, I've still got mountains of stuff I've never opened, let alone played. Thankfully these days I recognise that wasting money on RPG books is an addiction of a kind, and *hopefully* have finished chasing books I'll never read. Heh. We'll see.
Fortunately, I don't think there is one of these for me. There are a few product lines I've bought ridiculous amounts of stuff for: namely Mystara (all the gazetteers, almost all of the boxed sets, the almanacs, and a few other things) and Palladium products (every Robotech book ever and a shitload of RIFTS stuff), but in both cases I actually ran multiple very long campaigns with the material, so I guess I got my money's worth.
QuoteWhat RPG-product Have you Spent Way Too Much Money On?
I couldn't think of a game on which I spent too much money, but now that I remember, I could have spent less on Dragonlance stuff (that I never got to use), and above all, I should never have bought so many miniatures! (I have a lot in dust covered boxes, don't know how many, with 80% of them that were never painted :( ). Apart from the few minis used for the players' characters, and maybe a couple of monsters, this was really too much weight to carry up to the gaming table! (which wasn't at home.)
Rifts books.
Quote from: RPGPundit;836465Be it books, dice, miniatures, etc., what is it that you've ended up going a bit too crazy on? What product line did you buy way more stuff for than you ever actually used?
Two words, Dwarven Forge! But man how it looks when it is setup.
Quote from: estar;838050Two words, Dwarven Forge! But man how it looks when it is setup.
See I've spent a ton on Dwarven Forge but I don't think it's "way too much"; in fact I think it's not enough :D
Quote from: thedungeondelver;838207See I've spent a ton on Dwarven Forge but I don't think it's "way too much"; in fact I think it's not enough :D
The number one sign that you have. :D
But as long as you have fun with it, who are we to argue, ne?
I'm so glad I never liked miniatures.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;838273The number one sign that you have. :D
But as long as you have fun with it, who are we to argue, ne?
I CAN QUIT ANYTIME I WANT!
help meeee
Definitely the '90s World of Darkness line for me. That was a time when I had an significant disposable income for the first time ever. My weekly trip to the game store wasn't an issue of whether to buy books. It was question of what books I was going to buy. White Wolf had their supplement treadmill cranking in those days, so their books were always an available option.
I doubt that any game company ever put out so many books with so little content that was usable at the table. However, they won me over early on with good books like Chicago by Night. It wasn't really until Changeling came along that I truly soured on the line.
I bought a lot of GURPS books, many of which never saw use. I don't feel bad about those though. Even the ones I haven't used yet are generally solid supplements, so they carry the potential to see use one day. Whereas most of WoD line would be utterly worthless even if I decided to run those games again.
Quote from: RPGPundit;838457I'm so glad I never liked miniatures.
yay for...you...I guess...?
I dabbled in minis in high school around the time 40k first hit the shelves. Minis were always my best friend's thing though. He'd even paint all of my minis for me. I did spend a fair amount on them, and when I went off to college, I gave them all to my friend. He was thrilled. Even though the mini bug never stuck with me, I can't really feel like any of it was a waste when it allowed me to give a gift to a good friend.
I put no monetary connection to my emotions when it comes to game expenditures. I'm a creature of intent. I game. I spend. I have ZERO regrets. There is no price that is too much for my hobbies as long as it's within reason.
I have spent a lot of money on games I rarely play (White Wolf shit these days). D&D 2e is probably the worst. I think I owned all of it. ALL of it. I used probably 70% of it at one time or another.
Wait, are we supposed to be regretting our purchases? I mean, I collected too much of the CP2020 stuff, but only ended up using maybe 50% of it, but I literally regretted none of those purchases.
Then I withdraw my comment, no matter how much I spent, I never regretted any of it.
Quote from: tenbones;838747I have spent a lot of money on games I rarely play (White Wolf shit these days). D&D 2e is probably the worst. I think I owned all of it. ALL of it. I used probably 70% of it at one time or another.
70% is actually an impressive statistic, especially when were are talking the entire AD&D 2E line.
I have bought many games I have never played and never will, (I should put them on e-bay or something) but I think dice is my goofiest thing. I never seem to leave a store without a new set of dice.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;838502yay for...you...I guess...?
What I mean is, if I had, it would probably have bankrupted me.
Quote from: RPGPundit;839306What I mean is, if I had, it would probably have bankrupted me.
Ahh, OK. I getcha.
Still, a fine set of character miniatures nicely painted is a good thing to have on a table.
What's the import cost down there? You could use DDMs given how cheap they are. Just sayin'.
lately all my RPG purchases have been in the category of 'spent too much money on' as I find myself between groups right now. (I have mentioned my problems in earlier threads and won't repeat them here)
Sure I read the books and enjoy doing so, but the books aren't going to their intended use, and that disappoints me.
Quote from: remial;839481lately all my RPG purchases have been in the category of 'spent too much money on' as I find myself between groups right now. (I have mentioned my problems in earlier threads and won't repeat them here)
Sure I read the books and enjoy doing so, but the books aren't going to their intended use, and that disappoints me.
Totally and exactly. Too many great games and too little opportunity to actually use.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;839393Ahh, OK. I getcha.
Still, a fine set of character miniatures nicely painted is a good thing to have on a table.
What's the import cost down there? You could use DDMs given how cheap they are. Just sayin'.
Fortunately, I'm not interested.
And most imports are taxed 60%; of their total value, including shipping.
Quote from: RPGPundit;839766Fortunately, I'm not interested.
And most imports are taxed 60%; of their total value, including shipping.
GAH!
Quote from: thedungeondelver;841583GAH!
Yeah. Luckily, the exception is books, which are untaxed. And that's pretty much the only thing I ever get sent in the mail.
In Nomine
Loved reading it but never going to run it
Quote from: tzunder;842120In Nomine
Loved reading it but never going to run it
Aww, why? I know the RAW calculation for Disturbance is not GM friendly. Lack of players?
Quote from: tzunder;842120In Nomine
Loved reading it but never going to run it
The real version, or the English version?