What's the big secret? And is the 5E book (Ghosts of Saltmarsh) worth purchasing?
Quote from: Aglondir;1143617What's the big secret? And is the 5E book (Ghosts of Saltmarsh) worth purchasing?
Spoilers Man! and yes.
Well it was this sweet little cafe and bakery but unfortunately being a secret didn't help sales and it went under. Saltmarsh's current best kept secret is the iron rations at Mike's Iron Rations. They're actually chewable and digestible but they cost twice what other brands cost.
It's a Scooby Doo adventure where you discover that the haunted house isn't haunted; it's a smugglers' hideout. Not really very sinister IMO.
The pc realizes it was all fucking fake. It was all smoke and mirrors. Do you understand?
Maybe the sinister secret was the adventures we had and the friends we made along the way.
As much as I don't want to draw attention to it, the alternate cover pissed me off.
Wasn't Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh roughly the same adventure as The Caves of Zenopus from Holmes Basic? I recall liking the module because it detailed the city a bit and had a map. It's a bit fuzzy but I think that's the one.
I can only speak for the original module from AD&D, and from the perspective of an 11 year old reading it (the guy who was our DM never ran it and I know why) is that the sinister secret is it is boring as all hell. I am not saying there is no market for such a module, and it had some interesting NPCs (I remember a dude in the tavern with a hook and and either missing and eye or peg leg or some such) but wow, talk about freaking boring for a module. I suspect I might appreciate it a good deal more as an adult, but I would have to read it again, and I have no idea how the 5th edition version is.
The sinister secret was that the marsh was inside your house.
Well, you don't have to get salty about them asking...
The new book is a must if you want expanded naval combat and seafaring rules.
The secret was it wasn't ghosts or goblins, just smugglers. And they would have gotten away with it if it weren't for...
Also, spoilers.
Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, module U1 for AD&D has the following text on the cover:
QuoteDesolate and abandonded, the evil alchemist's mansion stands alone on the cliff, looking out towards the sea. Mysterious lights and ghostly hauntings have kept away the people of Saltmarsh, despite rumors of a fabulous forgotten treasure. What is it's sinister secret?
The Module is composed of two parts - the first part has the players explore a haunted house (uncovering the first part of the secret) and the second has the players aboard a ship. It should be clear that it isn't really the TOWN'S secret, but a secret of a nearby 'dungeon'.
Spoiler
The haunted house is actually being used by smugglers to avoid paying an excise tax on luxury goods. In the second part of the adventure, the players learn that the smugglers have been supplying weapons to a tribe of Lizardmen, but not for what purpose. That sets up the premise for the sequel, U2.
Quote from: Nephil;1143700The secret was it wasn't ghosts or goblins, just smugglers. And they would have gotten away with it if it weren't for...
Also, spoilers.
You stole my jokes.
What a let down. Although it might be fun to run it having the players expect that, but its actually real.
(Edited out spoilers)
Quote from: Aglondir;1143716What a let down. Although it might be fun to run it having the players expect that, but its actually real.
(Edited out spoilers)
You want a let down? My players just decided that, after prying the boards off the windows, it was better to just toss some oil and flaming rags in to burn the haunted house to its foundation. Like in Aliens, it was the only way to be sure..
Wait, so this module is about an abandoned alchemist's house, that's rumored to be haunted, but it's not really haunted or the module have much to do with alchemy, but rather it's just the staging ground for a completely mundane illicit operation?
Wow, I so more interesting stuff come up at the "What's in an abandoned alchemist's house? (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42414-What-s-in-an-abandoned-Alchemist-s-house)" thread recently.
SSoS is basically an episode of Scooby Doo: the D&D Edition.
No, really. How many Scooby Doo episodes have been motivated by pure greed of the villains pretending to be ghosts? "He thought he would scare everyone away, and then buy up the land at a bargain!" That's the motivation for the smugglers' spook house. It's purely financial, trying to avoid excise tax.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143721You want a let down? My players just decided that, after prying the boards off the windows, it was better to just toss some oil and flaming rags in to burn the haunted house to its foundation. Like in Aliens, it was the only way to be sure..
Sad that the chemicals in the house exploded and flaming fragments fell all over the city causing a catastrophe. Sad that the house was the only thing binding the ghost to the spot and now it is free and pursuing the PCs. It's funny how these things can work out.
Quote from: David Johansen;1143803Sad that the chemicals in the house exploded and flaming fragments fell all over the city causing a catastrophe. Sad that the house was the only thing binding the ghost to the spot and now it is free and pursuing the PCs. It's funny how these things can work out.
The house isn't in town dumbass. Read or play the fucking thing and have the information my players did before thinking dumb shit like you did. Sometimes burning the whole shithole to the foundation is a real option even if it seems like a crazy one.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143815The house isn't in town dumbass.
Speaking from experience, chemical fires/explosions don't need to be 'in town' to cause havoc on people miles away.
Quote from: Simlasa;1143823Speaking from experience, chemical fires/explosions don't need to be 'in town' to cause havoc on people miles away.
You obviously have no idea how far D&D diverges from your experience. Nothing in D&D has any effect over an area that large. Play the game by its rules.
Play it RAW, dumbasses! D&D has clearly detailed rules for chemical explosions in every edition. Don't diverge from D&D, your GOD, and follow the goddamn rules! :mad:
Quote from: VisionStorm;1143833Play it RAW, dumbasses! D&D has clearly detailed rules for chemical explosions in every edition. Don't diverge from D&D, your GOD, and follow the goddamn rules! :mad:
Hell yeah! Oh, were you being facetious? It's so hard to tell around here when everyone's so full of it.
Besides, the house has almost 0 alchemical crap and 0 ghosts (it has a few skeletons though), so there's no chemical fire/explosion unless it's one of those narrative type game masters that feels the need to screw with the PCs because "story."
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143834Besides, the house has almost 0 alchemical crap and 0 ghosts (it has a few skeletons though), so there's no chemical fire/explosion unless it's one of those narrative type game masters that feels the need to screw with the PCs because "story."
Then maybe you should've have led with that instead of waiting to use it to move the goalposts later after blowing up on someone for an innocuous comment. :p
Quote from: VisionStorm;1143839Then maybe you should've have led with that instead of waiting to use it to move the goalposts later after blowing up on someone for an innocuous comment. :p
I suggested he read the fucking manual. Perhaps you should do the same before jumping in to white knight, you little bitch.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143841you little bitch.
I'm not the one snapping at people for trying to be funny or for bringing up RL experiences as examples of what could plausibly go down in the game, then doubling down on it instead of taking a chill pill. Typical bitch behavior. :rolleyes:
There's not much flammable in there either, and the climate is humid coastal; if GMing it I'd require a pretty big bonfire to burn the place down.
The secret is when PCs try to do something the Dm does not like he thinks of ways to screw them over.
Then rinse and repeat.
Quote from: S'mon;1143844There's not much flammable in there either, and the climate is humid coastal; if GMing it I'd require a pretty big bonfire to burn the place down.
The create bonfire cantrip can be used at will and creates a sustained 5-foot cube of magical fore. Then add oil. Lots of oil.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143834Hell yeah! Oh, were you being facetious? It's so hard to tell around here when everyone's so full of it.
Besides, the house has almost 0 alchemical crap and 0 ghosts (it has a few skeletons though), so there's no chemical fire/explosion unless it's one of those narrative type game masters that feels the need to screw with the PCs because "story."
I'm the DM and it has whatever I want it to have and the wind is blowing in whatever direction I say it is.
Quote from: David Johansen;1143853I'm the DM and it has whatever I want it to have and the wind is blowing in whatever direction I say it is.
If you decide that ahead of time, then sure. If you decide it just to thwart them because it fits your story better, then you're a shitty narrativist.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143858If you decide that ahead of time, then sure. If you decide it just to thwart them because it fits your story better, then you're a shitty narrativist.
Mine is full of highly volatile chemical substances and the ghosts of the smugglers, who thought that the house had been abandoned, but were in for a rude awakening when the alchemist came back as a lich to ruin their tax evading operation and poison bombed the entire house with noxious gas bombs to snuff them out, and laughed at them as they choked on the poison gasses, to which he was immune to on account of being undead.
Now the group has unleashed a fiery explosion full of noxious chemicals making their way to town, along with the ghosts of the dead smugglers, who are no longer tethered to the now destroyed house, as well as a pissed off lich who wants revenge. Congrats! :p
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143858If you decide that ahead of time, then sure. If you decide it just to thwart them because it fits your story better, then you're a shitty narrativist.
Nah, but if they refuse to engage with the fun, the fun will engage with them. If your PCs deliberately go off map you just have to improvise. It's not about story, it's about working with what they give you.
Quote from: VisionStorm;1143861Mine is full of highly volatile chemical substances and the ghosts of the smugglers, who thought that the house had been abandoned, but were in for a rude awakening when the alchemist came back as a lich to ruin their tax evading operation and poison bombed the entire house with noxious gas bombs to snuff them out, and laughed at them as they choked on the poison gasses, to which he was immune to on account of being undead.
Now the group has unleashed a fiery explosion full of noxious chemicals making their way to town, along with the ghosts of the dead smugglers, who are no longer tethered to the now destroyed house, as well as a pissed off lich who wants revenge. Congrats! :p
It's a starting adventure. Do that crap and everyone just laughs and says game over. You lose your DM chair as they prep for the next game and your stuck with the GoS book that's now much less useful. Good job there.
It's like the one player, who when I was wanting to run (GURPS) Dungeon Fantasy decided to make his character a king and hole up in his castle instead of engaging with the premise and going on the bloody adventure I'd prepared. Well, that's just fine, but his castle can also be a dungeon and he can also fight his way through enemies there if there's a coup. So that's what he got. He was told in advance what kind of campaign it was and he tried to go around it. I was disappointed that the campaign didn't last as his friend's mercenary captain character had Secret (king's bastard older brother) so that would have been fun. sigh
DMing means going with the flow a lot of the time. But there's no point in buying a module or doing any prep at all if the players consistently fail to engage.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143864It's a starting adventure. Do that crap and everyone just laughs and says game over. You lose your DM chair as they prep for the next game and your stuck with the GoS book that's now much less useful. Good job there.
I just made it ten times better and suitable for high level adventurers. Now it's an actual haunted house and a death trap, with a powerful lich residing within it, and the mystery of WTF happened to the tax evading smugglers no one's seen in weeks. The local Thieves Guild Master is not a patient man and he wants his cut, but where the hell are his smugglers? Are they trying to stiff him? Did they run out of town? If the party's rogue finds out he's gonna owe them big! The Guild Master said the haunted house is just a sham--an old legend cultivated by the Guild to keep nosey towns people away from their secret smuggling operations... Or is it? ;)
I was just messing around anyways. I don't waste money on modules--much less overpriced hardbacks like they sell these days--unless the module happens to be included as an extra with a campaign setting or setting expansion.
The smugglers are in caves below the house. Burning g it down would not solve the problem.
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1143886The smugglers are in caves below the house. Burning g it down would not solve the problem.
No, it wouldn't...if the PCs had any reason to quarrel with the smugglers. The funny thing is that they more of less just wander to the house, burn it to the ground, and leave. The smugglers aren't going to reveal themselves by fighting the fire, and the caves alone don't leave them with much of a hideout (they slept.and are in the lower level of the house, not in the caves), so they might just opt to leave after the place burns. Many groups of bad guys know that sometimes it's better to just cut your losses, and smugglers seem likely to go that route to me.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1143851The create bonfire cantrip can be used at will and creates a sustained 5-foot cube of magical fore. Then add oil. Lots of oil.
Yeah, I think I'd allow that (rather OP) 5e druid cantrip to do the job, eventually. Might need a few false starts but they can just keep trying different areas until it catches. I was thinking more of 1e as I don't have the 5e version. Also thinking of the Haunted House in The Skinsaw Murders (2nd part of Rise of the Runelords) and the Kreeg house in Hook Mountain Massacre (RotRL #3) - both of those are obvious burn-it-down candidates my players swiftly spotted.
I don't want to make it too easy; OTOH I listened to Njall's Saga on the radio decades ago and burn-it-down was very much the standard Viking tactic for dealing with houses full of pesky enemies.
I ran the 5E version of the adventure a few weeks ago for my group. Gave one character the deed to the house that she had just inherited, and so a crew of four level-one characters went there to investigate the haunting and clear out her new house. Amazing how a few traps and insect swarms can nearly TPK a low-level party when they don't get any rests. I nearly took 'em out several times. Also, there are a few nasties in the basement. We enjoyed it quite a bit.
Now, the second adventure in the 5E book wasn't as fun. The group went to investigate the lizard men and found a way to sidestep the whole plotline. Ugh.
Gonna start the third adventure soon. I'd say that the hardback is worth it so far. :D
Man, smugglers avoiding taxes instead of a haunted mansion on the marsh? Ugh! Terrible secret surprise. The opposite would have been way cooler. Hunt down the smugglers only to learn they're ghostly pirates feeding on the townies' souls! :cool:
The Sinister Secrets of Saltmarsha review by the GameDaddySpoiler in place for noobs in case you haven't ever played this adventure and don''t want to ruin your play experience. Another words, if you don't want to run this as a GM, but want to one day play in it, don't read this!
Spoiler
This is an AD&D adventure module for 1st to 3rd level characters that came out in late 1981, written by Don Turnbull and Dave J. Browne. It included two follow up adventures U2, Danger at Dunwater and U3, The Final Enemy. Let me say right now, I really enjoyed Don Turnbull's Fiend Folio when it was released earlier in 1981, and it was refreshing to see new creatures for AD&D which I easily adapted for my 0D&D games. Based on what I saw in Fiend Folio I was really looking forward to checking out these new adventures, however was quite disappointed when I finally did get a look at U1 Secrets of Saltmarsh.
For starters it was an adventure for brand new characters, 1st to 3rd level. We had been playing D&D for five years already at that point and as a GM, I was quite happy with running homebrew adventures for low level characters. One of the advantages of homebrew adventures is that the players can't cheat and look through the module themselves so they can "Win" by defeating the GM, which had reared it's head a couple of years earlier as a problem, especially with newer players. TSR had also got into the bad habit of shrink wrapping all of their games and modules so you couldn't just go down to the game store and get a look at the new adventure, someone literally had to buy a copy, and then open it, before the quality of the adventure would be apparent. We actually took this as a sign that the quality of the new adventures were questionable because TSR was afraid to let GMs see them before they chose to buy them. They started shrink wrapping their games with the Holmes set of D&D, and had just never stopped after that. Usually at our local FLGS though, the game store owner would open a copy to run the game, and then leave the opened copy on the shelf as a sample, so we could get a look at the new game/module that had been recently released. After awhile though, they got in trouble with their distributors and even stopped giving sneak previews, which killed a lot of sales for them, because I wouldn't buy anything sight unseen.
Anyway I got an early look at Secrets of Saltmarsh right after it was released, and notwithstanding the fact it was an Intro adventure which by that time was practically useless to me as a GM, the first thing I come across is the haunted house. It wasn't particularly large, and it was stocked with generic monsters that were already available even for the 0D&D crew, so nothing new there. ...and that haunted house. My first impression of haunted houses of course had already been established with the release three years earlier of the Judges Guild Tegel Manor. Tegel Manor was huge, had all kinds of traps and scary encounters, many of which were not already listed in other books, and had set the gold standard for what a haunted house adventure should be. This being released like three years later seemed like a knock off poor copying attempt, and that really put me off from buying it at the time.
I did give it a good going through because I really wanted a new adventure to run for my players, but kept on hitting snags that dulled my desire to use this for my players. Once the players clear the mansion and get down into sea caverns the encounters were unremarkable, linear, and the entire adventure felt forced. It's an almost textbook perfect example of a railroad where no side plots, or optional opportunities for adventure are presented. The players are tasked with simply hunting down and killing the sea pirates, on their ship the Sea Ghost, and looting everything. There are no spinoff storylines available, no option to instead join the pirates, and no true or false rumors the players have to sort through, in fact, it's densely packed with mostly flavorless text and is highly railroad, here's a specific example:
"RANDOM ENCOUNTERS ABOARD THE SEA GHOST
There will be no random encounters other than aboard the ship. No sea monsters, etc., will plague the excise officers on patrol or the party on its way to the boarding attempt.The Dungeon Master must keep in mind that the smugglers are a successful band of organised and intelligent criminals..." ...etc. et al.
Never mind the fact that they anchored their ship, and are an easy target... (my words here)... because they are organized and intelligent criminals!. They lost their lair, yet there is no danger, ...they can just anchor out in Ye Olde Harbour and wait for the murder-hobo players to come along and "surprise them". There's no stats for other ships, no seafaring adventure map, in short it takes them twelve full pages just to describe how to run a night time boarding action on a sailing ship. We had already done this countless times in our home brew piratical adventures. ...Yawn. This was about every reason I stayed away from later AD&D adventure modules, because TSR couldn't offer a better game than I was already used to running at my table. Of course this was a no-buy for me, and I didn't even bother looking at U2 and U3.
I felt sorry for Don Turnbull, based on the really great monsters he added to Fiend Folio, I'm sure had a better game to offer. Too bad we never got to see it.
Quote from: finarvyn;1143921I ran the 5E version of the adventure a few weeks ago for my group. Gave one character the deed to the house that she had just inherited, and so a crew of four level-one characters went there to investigate the haunting and clear out her new house. Amazing how a few traps and insect swarms can nearly TPK a low-level party when they don't get any rests. I nearly took 'em out several times. Also, there are a few nasties in the basement. We enjoyed it quite a bit.
Now, the second adventure in the 5E book wasn't as fun. The group went to investigate the lizard men and found a way to sidestep the whole plotline. Ugh.
Gonna start the third adventure soon. I'd say that the hardback is worth it so far. :D
I don't think I'd ever toss swarms at level 1 adventurers. There's only a few options to deal with them at that low level, and most are pretty janky. Traps and minor critters, sure.