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What is the OSR?

Started by squirewaldo, January 18, 2023, 10:00:20 AM

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squirewaldo

January 18, 2023, 10:00:20 AM
Is the OSR just sword and sorcery games based upon D&D 1e+? Is it about the spirit of the genre of sword and sorcery, not necessarily the rules or the mechanics? Is about being based upon or inspired by the rules even if the subject matter is unrelated? I am curious what you guys think.

rytrasmi

#1
January 18, 2023, 10:23:02 AM
The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out
The ones that crawl in are lean and thin
The ones that crawl out are fat and stout
Your eyes fall in and your teeth fall out
Your brains come tumbling down your snout
Be merry my friends
Be merry

Ruprecht

#2
January 18, 2023, 10:29:41 AM
Quote from: squirewaldo on January 18, 2023, 10:00:20 AM
Is the OSR just sword and sorcery games based upon D&D 1e+? Is it about the spirit of the genre of sword and sorcery, not necessarily the rules or the mechanics? Is about being based upon or inspired by the rules even if the subject matter is unrelated? I am curious what you guys think.
OSR is not specific to Sword & Sorcery. There are few games that model Sword & Sorcery but in general they are more generic high fantasy (Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs, etc). OSR is not specific to 1e+, in fact most are specific to versions prior to AD&D 1e and I believe at least one models 2e (or at least 2e as it would have been with Gygax).

OSR started as inspired by playstyles that started to disappear with 3E. Hopefully rytrasmi's link will clarify.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

Jam The MF

#3
January 18, 2023, 01:57:03 PM
It started out, as a few old school D&D "authentically-flavored" rulesets.  OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, Swords & Wizardry, etc.  Castles & Crusades, and Basic Fantasy were in there too; but they blended a little bit of D&D 3rd Edition into their DNA.  I think that was the early history, that led to what we see today.  WOTC didn't fight against it, either.
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

estar

#4
January 18, 2023, 02:06:44 PM
Quote from: squirewaldo on January 18, 2023, 10:00:20 AM
Is the OSR just sword and sorcery games based upon D&D 1e+? Is it about the spirit of the genre of sword and sorcery, not necessarily the rules or the mechanics? Is about being based upon or inspired by the rules even if the subject matter is unrelated? I am curious what you guys think.
It is whatever you want to do with existing d20 SRD content (assuming the OGL survives) when stripped of newer mechanics and adapted in a way that it but a hop and skip from a given classic edition.

For me, it is the system I use to bring my thoughts on sandbox campaigns, and hexcrawl formatted setting to left in order to allow players to "trash" the setting.

Other folks have their own creative priorities. Since we mostly publish using digital technology like print on demand, PDFs, etc. It is a non zero sum situation where we don't have to compete for limited shelf space in stores and warehouses.


Cathode Ray

#5
January 18, 2023, 03:21:27 PM
Yes, I asked a similar question about the nature of OSR just recently.  It's in the 1st reply.
Creator of Radical High, a 1980s RPG.
DM/PM me if you're interested.

migo

#6
January 18, 2023, 03:28:12 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on January 18, 2023, 10:29:41 AM
, in fact most are specific to versions prior to AD&D 1e

The majority of OSR games are based off Moldvay/Cook B/X, which was released in 1981, where AD&D 1e was released from 1977 to 79. So the bulk of the OSR sits in the 1977 to 1983 range.

Ruprecht

#7
January 18, 2023, 03:31:16 PM
Quote from: migo on January 18, 2023, 03:28:12 PM
The majority of OSR games are based off Moldvay/Cook B/X, which was released in 1981, where AD&D 1e was released from 1977 to 79. So the bulk of the OSR sits in the 1977 to 1983 range.
You are correct. I was thinking of the LBB and Holmes Basic. But most Basic are based off Moldvay.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

Philotomy Jurament

#8
January 19, 2023, 08:53:31 AM
A dream to some...a nightmare to others!
The problem is not that power corrupts, but that the corruptible are irresistibly drawn to the pursuit of power. Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.

Eirikrautha

#9
January 19, 2023, 01:36:50 PM
Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on January 19, 2023, 08:53:31 AM
A dream to some...a nightmare to others!

You forgot the "/Merlin" at the end...

weirdguy564

#10
January 19, 2023, 02:00:36 PM
They're D&D copycat games. 
I'm glad for you if you like the top selling game of the genre.  Me, I like the road less travelled, and will be the player asking we try a game you've never heard of.

estar

#11
January 19, 2023, 02:19:33 PM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 19, 2023, 02:00:36 PM
They're D&D copycat games.
Many are and it's kind of the point of the exercise.

Spinachcat

#12
January 20, 2023, 12:43:45 AM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 19, 2023, 02:00:36 PM
They're D&D copycat games.

That defines 90% of RPGs ever published!

Jam The MF

#13
January 20, 2023, 01:08:26 AM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on January 19, 2023, 02:00:36 PM
They're D&D copycat games.

And some are quite good, too.
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

blackstone

#14
January 20, 2023, 07:04:31 AM
Quote from: squirewaldo on January 18, 2023, 10:00:20 AM
Is the OSR just sword and sorcery games based upon D&D 1e+? Is it about the spirit of the genre of sword and sorcery, not necessarily the rules or the mechanics? Is about being based upon or inspired by the rules even if the subject matter is unrelated? I am curious what you guys think.

From a previous thread about the topic, I'll post my response:

QuoteI would say that when it comes to rules, the OSR emulates game systems pre-3E D&D. Most of the OSR material does concentrate on pre-2e D&D though.

Idea or mindset? A similar thread was posted at Dragonsfoot.org. here's my response:

-rulings vs. rules: means in the OS way, if you didn't have a rule for it, you made a ruling at that time and stuck with it. Now? There seems to be a rule for EVERYTHING. Whichever one is better is a personal opinion.

- tables vs. lack thereof: LOTS of tables in OS games, which shows the wargaming connection. I think that's kinda cool. Modern tends to do away with tables mostly, at least when it comes to anything combat related. It's mostly apposing dice rolls or some target number thingy. Again, personal preference. I prefer the former and not the latter

-basic character classes and races vs. everything but the kitchen sink: PCs in the OS were mostly pretty basic as far as skills and abilities. The Core Four (Fighter, Cleric, MU, Thief) didn't have much to them. Even the sub-classes just had a few extra special abilities. It was up to you as the player to make them unique in the game. Give them personality, if you wanted to. Even the races to pick from didn't have too many special skills. Humans didn't have any! Modern has skills, abilities, and races that are greatly influenced by online RPGs. LOTs a skills and abilities, even for the basic classes. I prefer the former. If I want to play a video game, I'll play a video game thankyouverymuch.

which leads to...

-challenging the player vs. challenging the character: with the previously stated about PC classes and races, because of the minimum amount of those skills and abilities, much of the challenges met in OS were to challenge the player of that character: to be creative to get out of a situation, to figure out a riddle or puzzle, etc. Now in Modern, most of it is reduced down to a roll of the dice. Need to negotiate with a group of bandits? Somebody probably has a skill for that. need to figure out a riddle based in the lore of a long lost race? I'm sure a PC has a skill to help out. I think a balance can be made, but I'd rather not leave it down to a die roll every single time. Nor should you keep trying to break the brains of every player at the table. That can get exhausting. I prefer more challenges to me as a player than dice rolls for everything you throw at me. It's the satisfaction of ME overcoming the challenge, not some numbers on a piece of paper and dice rolling.

zeros vs. already heroes: This goes with my 4th point above. PCs in OS started off as "zeroes": nobodies. You had to earn you way up the ladder to be someone. Ability scores were fixed for the most part. In Modern, most PCs has a boat load of special skills and talents. You can even improve ability scores and start way above normal people. You already start as a hero. Now IMO that takes away entirely from the Hero's Journey. If you already have a bunch of cool skills, talents, etc. and already somewhat made a name for yourself, then what is the point? IMO, the intrinsic value of the PC earning the fame, fortune, and power along the way is much more interesting than a PC that already has some of that from the get go.

That's just my opinion. YMMV.
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