Quote from: StuartReminds me a bit of Piers Anthony...

Eh, how? This is the whole story. Some of the Hitherby entries are based on bad puns, granted, but this isn't one of them.

The marginal nanofiction is an absolute joy to read.  If she put out a slim book containing nothing but twenty thousand similar snippets I would buy it in a heartbeat.

The example of play and the combat example make me want to play the game.  I just can't relate those passages to the rest of the book.

I'm all for a modern weirdness game where guns are irrelevant not simply because they lack sufficient firepower, but because guns as a concept isn't a sufficient power against the true forces in the world.

Her writing (what little of it I've seen) seems pretty hit or miss. I loved the duck one someone posted in another thread, and the villagers torturing the lord was kinda neat, but the other stuff I've seen hasn't really done it for me.

And oh yeah, so much for a thread about the up side of Nobilis, eh?

Quote from: jrientsI'm all for a modern weirdness game where guns are irrelevant not simply because they lack sufficient firepower, but because guns as a concept isn't a sufficient power against the true forces in the world.

Speaking of guns...[QUOTE="Tragedies of Spirit" in Nobilis, page 30]His human always thought that Emmett was nothing more than a gun; a tool, a weapon, mindless, without a will of his own. Emmett did not mind. He was a quiet type, a utilitarian type. He liked to sit in his case when not in use. He liked to fling bullets at the targets down the range. He saw no need to speak up and remind his human that he had a mind of his own.

Emmett didn't really know how he came to be there, in the alley, staring down the darkness at his human's brother. It had all been a whirl. His human was yanking on the trigger; an uncomfortable pressure began to build within his mind. Fire! a voice chanted in his mind. Fire!

He could not help himself. Rearing back, inhaling, he spat forth a bullet like a thunderclap. Blood cried and whimpered as it splashed against the wall.

It wasn't worth it, Emmett realized.

I am metal, he whispered to himself, and sank into the metal. I am a tool. I am mindless.

And then he was.[/QUOTE]

QuoteEh, how? This is the whole story. Some of the Hitherby entries are based on bad puns, granted, but this isn't one of them.

Have you read A Spell for Chameleon?  If you were to take the wild oats from that book, and put them in the George Washington Cherry Tree story, you basically get the story on Rebecca's blog.

It would be like a short vignette with a Giant Lumberjack meeting an ancient Tree Man with a Beard of leaves in the deepest part of the forest.*

Again, I'm not trashing her work, just wondering why so many people would say it's wildly creative when I'd assume most people who like Fantasy literature would have read that book.

Maybe it's just a matter of choosing the right source material and combining it in creative ways.  That's how most Hollywood movies are pitched. That's actually worth thinking a lot more about... :hmm:

...

* Let me know if this sounds like an awesome idea for a really creative story.

Quote from: StuartHave you read A Spell for Chameleon?  If you were to take the wild oats from that book, and put them in the George Washington Cherry Tree story, you basically get the story on Rebecca's blog.

Yes, I've read Xanth novels: the first three books in the sequence are tolerable, but after that they descend rapidly into nothing more than long lists of horrible puns and fart jokes suggested by his fans. I'm still not seeing the similarity to this piece, though.

Quote from: StuartMaybe we should start a Nobilis sub-forum here.  It's such a popular topic of discussion. :11zblink:

Or perhaps people who don't care for the game should stop broaching the topic in their posts and challenging others to discuss why they like it.

What I like about the game is how it manages to capture mystery and whimsy in both its (admittedly dense prose) and in its relatively simple mechanics.  I enjoy the aesthetics of both editions of the book (and even rather prefer the Little Pink Book).

!i!

@GrimGent

Wild Oats - Trees that grow Nymph's for young men's pleasures.

QuoteOr perhaps people who don't care for the game should stop broaching the topic in their posts and challenging others to discuss why they like it.

You're suggesting another thread to ask "What do you like about Rebecca Borgstrom's Writing?"  People often site the writing in Nobilis as one of the reasons they like it.  It seems like the right thread to ask the question.  :confused:

See, there are two distinct interpretations of what 'creative' or 'original' means, which I relate to science and engineering.

The first, science, is discovering something new, creating a concept nobody's ever done before. The second, engineering, is combining those concepts in thrilling and interesting ways.

You can argue about 'newness' at great length, but I just don't think novelty is terribly important.

The true writer is someone who takes ideas, recognizable or no, puts them together in certain ways skillfully.

So yes, I think it's a matter of the right source material and combining it in creative ways -- I think that is the core of writing. There's no 'just' about it, though.

As an aside, this is what made me laugh about all the hue and cry over WotC's setting search; people made a big stink about the 'value' of their original ideas.
But original ideas mean jack-all if you can't DO something with them. That's the key.

I can come up with a dozen original or nearly original ideas without much trouble. Friends call me 'the walking idea font.' You know? Until I do something with the ideas, it just makes me mildly entertaining to chat with.

Quote from: StuartMaybe it's just a matter of choosing the right source material and combining it in creative ways.  That's how most Hollywood movies are pitched. That's actually worth thinking a lot more about... :hmm:

That's pretty much every story told in the last 100 years (or more). It's pretty well agreed on by large chunks of the literary circle that there are only 36 real stories to be told. Everything else is setting and interplay of characters and forces. Anthony's idea of wild oats came from a pun, but the story is as old as Greek myths about dryads getting their trees chopped down. It's possible that the story was based on Anthony, but more likely that it was based on the actual myths of dryads. Theo nly way to be sure is to ask the author.

-- What I like about Nobilis --

I like that it pisses Pundit off. Any game that makes old, fat* men froth at the mouth in stark terror of a possible change to the way things are can't be all bad.

* Fat is an educated guess based on a few things he's posted, the insights into his self-worth he's shown, and a little bit of the picture I get in my head when he starts spewing. I don't actually know if he's fat or not, nor does it really matter unless he's this guy.

edit: lots of posts while I composed, so I added a quote for clarity.

Quote from: StuartWild Oats - Trees that grow Nymph's for young men's pleasures.

Yes? But Lilimund had nothing to do with sexual pleasure. She was born to fill the emptiness of Washington's childhood, in the usual manner of Hitherby gods; and his crime was murdering her when he felt that wasn't enough for him any more, and then trying in vain to justify his actions with material possessions and religious teachings. That's the lesson he learns about the responsibilities that come with power, and the reason why he cannot bear to lie again when his father asks about the tree. (And we know that he won't lie, of course, because that's how the original story goes.)

As for another take on the same subject:
[quote="Fasciculus Temporum" in The Game of Powers, page 50]They sit in a dirty hall at the mountain's heart: the four kings in the west, who by their words and presence carved their names into the book of the world. Their eyes are open, but they sleep: held still, held back from bloody reign by the sign carved into the mountain. Washington, whose touch dissolves the lies which keep a soul alive, whose hair burns as white as the snow on the dragon's back, whose axe cut down the tree of living hearts. Jefferson, shatterer of faiths, breaker of nations, who from time to time sups on the blood of patriots and tyrants. Lincoln, who turns brother against brother and strikes off the shackles of the bound. Last and worst, Roosevelt: warrior, destroyer of trusts, and "steward of the people" in the dark forces' name. These are the kings that sit under the mountain: invoke not their names, lest their sleeping minds destroy you.[/quote]

Hey, I think somewhere a Markov Chain generator is running wild.

Quote from: StuartYou're suggesting another thread to ask "What do you like about Rebecca Borgstrom's Writing?"  People often site the writing in Nobilis as one of the reasons they like it.  It seems like the right thread to ask the question.  :confused:

I took your opening post as sarcasm.  Perhaps I was wrong.  What I was actually suggesting is that, on this particular site, Nobilis seems to be a more popular subject among its critics and detractors than among its fans.  Far and away, the most mention of the game that I've seen has been from people who don't like it, piping up without prompting and saying so.  The two or three people who speak up to defend the game have been inordinately saddled with accusations of being mindless fanboys and viral marketeers.  For that reason, I thought I detected hostility in your post.

So, taking your suggestion seriously, no, I don't think Nobilis needs a forum of its own, particularly since, if people who don't like the game will stop broaching the topic without provocation, there'll be significantly less discussion of Nobilis around here.

!i!

(P.S. See?  I used a smiley.  That means I'm being friendly and sincere.)

(P.P.S. See what I mean?)

I'm just barely under 6 feet (5'11" and a bit) tall and weigh 85kg (187lbs). Jong could confirm that if you wanted him to.

And Nobilis still sucks. But that's a subject for another thread.

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