We are currently considering producing Sixcess Core in both 8.5x11 and 6x9 -- but this represents significant additional cost.
We've had some feedback that indicates 6x9 would be popular, but we don't have enough solid information.
We would really appreciate your feedback.
(Yes, we know that electronic is the wave of the future, you don't need to tell us that--we are already working in that direction. This is specifically related to dead-tree, printed copies.)
It's as much nostalgia as anything, but I like the 8.5x11 style. I will be watching this thread closely though, since my company has the same issue.
6x9. I love the digest sized books, as they take up less room at my table, can be transported easier. They also fit nicely in my LotFP box, and so do booklets I print out at home.
8.5x11 is nice, but the more and more I get used to 6x9, the more I wish all my core books and supplements were that size. I would buy a 6x9 book over an 8.5x11 book for the reasons listed above.
I definitely prefer 8.5x11 hardcovers. The utility more then outweighs portability in my mind, because if I'm gaming, I probably have my laptop bag with me and a couple 8.5x11's aren't a concern.
1. They are generally speaking easier to read (although I know font size isn't dependent on form factor).
2. When everyone is sitting around on couches, chairs or the floor, the 8.5x11 size provides both a writing surface for a full-size character sheet and a good die rolling surface.
It also depends on the size of the book. There's no sense in going to digest size if the book is going to be 2 1/2 inches thick. Better to go full size and thinner.
If I want super portable I use pdf.
I'll second all of CRKrueger's reasons for supporting 8.5x11 hardcover. And I'll add that 6x9 digest books tend to close up as soon as I let go of them; it's hard to keep them open to whatever page I'm using. With 8.5x11 books this is much less of a problem.
And of course, 8.5x11 books have bigger, better cover art than 6x9 books, just like 12" LPs had better art than CDs. :D
Palladium format. I don't know what that is called, but I have books that are 20 years old and still in near perfect condition (and were used quite frequently)
I guess it is 8 1/2 x 11. Perfect Bound? is that right?
I do NOT recommend hardcover. I've never (in 20 or so years) seen a hardcover RPG book that didn't have pages falling out of it after years of use. Further, hardcover just ups the price, which drives down sales.
I like my little Lotfp books, but they're so... little. I'm also very afraid that they will fall apart.
I prefer the small paperback format of books like ICONS or Savage Worlds Explorer edition. I think they count as 6x9 though in fact the exact measurements are all over the place (oh yes, I went did actually take out the tap measure and checked).
The oversizebook format I find hard to store. I just don't have that many shelves that are high enough so I end up having to stack them vertically which at some level annoys me.
I really don't care. I don't even know the standard gaming book size (they all seem roughly similar), just no giant coffee table books please.
I like books that can stay open on the table - and I'm assuming bigger is better for this. I like smaller-size paperback books for reading in my cumfy chair. So the kind of book that I'll need to reference at the table could be bigger, the kind of book that is mostly setting or "ideas" smaller is fine.
Way more important to me than the size is the quality of layout/typography.
Yeah, I like both sizes.
RPGPundit
Right around 6x9 looks better on an iPad.
Quote from: everloss;590488Palladium format. I don't know what that is called, but I have books that are 20 years old and still in near perfect condition (and were used quite frequently)
I guess it is 8 1/2 x 11. Perfect Bound? is that right?
I do NOT recommend hardcover. I've never (in 20 or so years) seen a hardcover RPG book that didn't have pages falling out of it after years of use. Further, hardcover just ups the price, which drives down sales.
I like my little Lotfp books, but they're so... little. I'm also very afraid that they will fall apart.
Palladium books just plain kick ass. The only problem I've had with them is that the film on the outside covers separate from the paper after a while. So I started just taping the edges everytime I bought a new Palladium book. Those things are ridiculously sturdy for being a softcover.
Nothing on earth compares to the 1st Editon PHB though. I don't know how they bound those books, but I'm fairly sure Faustian Deals were involved, because the fuckers will not fall apart no matter what the hell you do to them.
I like both 6x9 (assuming that includes the likes of Diaspora and ICONS?) and the standard 8.5x11. As others have mentioned, the smaller format is way easier to transport, and for games that aren't humongous tomes, it's just a lot more efficient. That also tends to work better because those sorts of games don't usually require constant referencing of the rulebook.
On the other hand, games like AD&D and 3.x, where I am going back to the various rulebooks a lot just work better in the larger format due to the sheer volume of information they contain, as well as how often I need to look things up.
Between hardcover and softcover? Hardcovers have the advantage of being able to be left open to a page on a flat surface, whereas those Palladium softcovers are nearly indestructible (aside from peeling film, which CKrueger mentioned above). Maybe they have MDC?
It depends on the layout, and the density of text, and the amount of material. 6x9 works best with fewer pages. The larger books work better with more material.
Whatever you do don't landscape it unless its VERY short. (Stupid Hellas books that I love, are falling apart because of the damn page weight vs spine coverage.)
I'm amazed on one has mentioned content, yet.
For me, it is the content that determines dimensions. If you are trying to evoke a tome, a mystical high fantasy what-what, it must be 8.5 x 11.
Personally I prefer 6 x 9 because it occurs more as being a pocket size, easier to carry, easier to shelve. Digest size suits urban settings better, I think, because it's so close to the trade paperback industry scale.
Overall, 6 x 9 all the way.
//Panjumanju
8 1/2" x 11" - they're better for reference during actual play than the smaller books are in my experience and they easily lay flat which the smaller books have a problem with
8 1/2 x 11.
That's what all the other books on my shelf take up. Shelf space is precious. You give me a smaller book, you have to make it thicker to fit the same content. It hogs more than its fair share on the bookshelf.
Quote from: Ben Rogers;590468(Yes, we know that electronic is the wave of the future, you don't need to tell us that--we are already working in that direction. This is specifically related to dead-tree, printed copies.)
As long as you are bringing it up, let me plug:
BUNDLE BUNDLE BUNDLE
If technically feasible at all, provide an option for users to purchase print & pdf together at a reduced cost... perhaps even free for the pdf with purchase of book! Companies like Paizo and IPR have been doing this for a while, and I'm surprised that everyone isn't by now. It's extremely convenient for the customer, and addresses two different needs.
Ave Caesar! :)
You mentioned bundling. Would you be willing to look at our Tiers and tell me if you think we did a good job?
I worked on every Tier to be cheaper than if you were to buy the product after the Kickstarter. Every Tier is discounted.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1299187159/sixcess-core-rulebook
I'm also planning to put up a Tier that provides all electronic products in a single Tier with no print products. It will be at an "average cost" until we hit the higher stretch goals -- and then it will be (far and away) the best deal -- if you wnat just electronic copies.
I'm quite open to feedback -- and I have a very thick skin. :)
8.5" x 11" with a decent sized font. At least a 12 point font.
Just because nobody has mentioned this angle yet - I personally prefer 8 1/2 x 11 because you can tuck characters and whatever in behind the back cover.
Quote from: mcbobbo;591013Just because nobody has mentioned this angle yet - I personally prefer 8 1/2 x 11 because you can tuck characters and whatever in behind the back cover.
This is definitely handy. I end up with characters, maps, and whatever else is handy stuffed in the book
8.5"x11", except if it's very short/thin in that format, and even then, I'd still prefer the 8.5x11 size for a plethora of reasons- all those that have been mentioned, plus one more that no-one has mentioned- digest sized books slide around inside a standard-sized backpack or laptop case and get beat to hell and back.
Also, another vote for whatever method those AD&D 1e hardcovers used. My copy of the original Oriental Adventures was completely soaked in water for 8 hours before I realized what had happened to it and got it to where it could dry out. the covers are warped, and the pages are wrinkly like yoda-skin, but the binding is still totally and completely rock solid.
Quote from: Scoundrel;591380Also, another vote for whatever method those AD&D 1e hardcovers used. My copy of the original Oriental Adventures was completely soaked in water for 8 hours before I realized what had happened to it and got it to where it could dry out. the covers are warped, and the pages are wrinkly like yoda-skin, but the binding is still totally and completely rock solid.
Strange, most later books (OA, UA) had problems with pages falling out on most people I know. You got fortunate their. The early books? Rock solid.
I like paperback size, like the original Dragon Warriors. It hasn't been done enough IMO.
8 1/2" x 11" hardbound is good.
I also like the LBB softbound format 5 3/4" x 8 1/2"
Its a page count issue for me. I don't want a thick digest sized book.
And if I buy a Dead Tree book, I want a free PDF.
Quote from: TristramEvans;591536I like paperback size, like the original Dragon Warriors. It hasn't been done enough IMO.
They're not that convenient for me to carry around. Since I have a Warhammer 40k backpack that is basically designed to accomodate standard size books, the small paperbacks don't sit snuggly in one place but move all around and I'm worried about them getting damaged.
If it makes any sense at all.
They're a lot "friendlier" than the huge tomes though. It's just something different to be handed a small paperback or two for a new player.
Quote from: Spinachcat;591549And if I buy a Dead Tree book, I want a free PDF.
Yeah, this.
Don't force me to use my scanner game companies!
Quote from: vytzka;591565They're not that convenient for me to carry around. Since I have a Warhammer 40k backpack that is basically designed to accomodate standard size books, the small paperbacks don't sit snuggly in one place but move all around and I'm worried about them getting damaged.
If it makes any sense at all.
That does, and paperbacks certainly aren't meant to last. But I like that I can carry one in my coat pocket.
8.5 x 11 all the way.
The various sub-sizes are annoying and waste shelf space designed for the book size that dominates the hobby.
Also, hell YES to the free PDF with print bundle.