...
I'm not going to say a DAMN thing. I'll let you guys get started.
Creative freedom that will never be parelleled by any other media.
Quote from: chaosvoyager;506478...
I'm not going to say a DAMN thing. I'll let you guys get started.
:rotfl:
Quote from: Ian Warner;506479Creative freedom that will never be parelleled by any other media.
Go write a book, I assure you you will have more freedom then when playing RPG. No mechanics, no GM, no other players, nothing to worry about, and all you need is a cheapest notebook and cheapest pen from the local store to get started.
RPGs exist to provide an experience, they're the easel and paint for the GM and the players.
Of course, the answers you want to hear, to re - affirm yourself, aren't here. They're over there. Here, let me link you.
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forge/index.php
Quote from: chaosvoyager;506478...
I'm not going to say a DAMN thing. I'll let you guys get started.
In which case, you're trolling.
I'm sure it'll get going despite that fact.
Quote from: One Horse Town;506493In which case, you're trolling.
I'm sure it'll get going despite that fact.
Oh I know he is. I can see the whole thread unfold already.
1) Statements about how RPGs are made to tell/make the story are made
2) Statements against them are made
3) Statements against the first statement are made, cunningly twisting the second statements.
4) Shitstorm blows out.
Quote from: Rincewind1;506489Go write a book, I assure you you will have more freedom then when playing RPG. No mechanics, no GM, no other players, nothing to worry about, and all you need is a cheapest notebook and cheapest pen from the local store to get started.
RPGs exist to provide an experience, they're the easel and paint for the GM and the players.
Of course, the answers you want to hear, to re - affirm yourself, aren't here. They're over there. Here, let me link you.
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forge/index.php
Did you really just accuse Ian of being a storygamer while comparing your game to art?
I think the thing for me is that "I create fun with friends." It isn't the same as a video game, where we use mechanics and push buttons. We create a story but not in the way some gamers mean.
We aren't "Telling" a story. We are creating one. The whole thing--the things players chose, the things GM's do, all of that together to create a story that we can share with others. The difference between RPing and creating a shared universe setting, is we aren't "controlled," we create things on the fly, together, and can't go back and change that. It is fashioned already. From beginning right after chargen, to the finale game--that is a story, but it isn't one we told, it is one we shaped/created and can share with others in hindsight.
I had a better term for it the other day that just doesn't come to mine. Neither author, nor teller, nor writer. I wish I could recall it. The whole experience is social, living, breathing "thing." Which we experience.
Quote from: DominikSchwager;506504Did you really just accuse Ian of being a storygamer while comparing your game to art?
Nope, I told him that if he wants creative freedom, he won't find a medium more liberal then a notebook and a pen - paper generally is a rather silent companion, and states no opinions about what is written on it.
And yes. Yes I did. And I believe there is a certain level of artistry to both GMing and playing RPGs. And I don't give a damn that you will use my words as an argument to ridicule me, as you will most likely do. The following statement is for the rest.
Sure, we're no actors or even close, but we try. We'd be probably ridiculed by the most amateur of theatres - but we try. We play to entertain ourselves, to experience things we are rather unlikely to do in real life - the glorious battles, the feeling of comradeship of the ship's crew, the tragedies of watching your empire turn into dust before your very eyes. They are Aragorn when he charges the forces of Sauron at Minas Tirith, but they are also Oedipus when he despairs over his fate.
And I think GMing is a craft of sorts, and as such, it can have a degree of artistry. I try my best to be a good GM, to anyone who wishes to play at my table. I practice facial expressions before a mirror, I practice narration, I practice gesticulations in my free time. I read a lot of poetry, not only because I love it, but also because a poetic "flow" can really help you greatly when you narrate, especially in horror. When I read a book, I often note (at least mentally), how to use a good character/plot in my game. I am fascinated by movies, and I use movie terminology and practices to help with my narration - close - up, cuts, lighting, all that jazz. I also take objects, scenes and characters from movies, and sometimes just show them to my players, as they help with visualization. Same if I find an interesting picture on the Net - sometimes I sketch an adventure/world/scene just after looking at the picture. I read a lot of RPG books, so I can nitpick and steal various mechanical gimmicks, and tedbits of GMing advice from them.
Finally - I play. I GM with as many people as I can, with various crews. I take criticism, and I try to make myself better. I work on my scenarios (I play one - shots quite a bit), and I always try to adjust them, make them better next time, try to make them perfect for any group that sits to play it.
Is a GM an artist? Certainly not in the eyes of most, as most people don't even know what a GM is. But I like to think, that just for a moment, when I stand next to my players, and begin to weave the tale - the tale that they will change and loose themselves in.
I don't care if you laugh or point fingers - I'm proud to be a GM, and I try to be the best damn GM about. You can call me Swine - so be it. But I believe firmly, that no system, ever, will remove that true spark that a good GM can bring, that sets aflame the campfire of experience - after all, RPGs draw a bit from the tradition of storytelling around the fire - but the earliest one, back in the days where people closed their eyes, and imagined themselves heroes from the tale, and how they'd change it if they were in place of heroes, not just the idle receivers of the tale.
RPG's strengths are often it's weaknesses. Which is to say that your enjoyment of them is reliant on the trust of others.
Quote from: Rincewind1;506524Nope, I told him that if he wants creative freedom, he won't find a medium more liberal then a notebook and a pen - paper generally is a rather silent companion, and states no opinions about what is written on it.
And yes. Yes I did. And I believe there is a certain level of artistry to both GMing and playing RPGs. And I don't give a damn that you will use my words as an argument to ridicule me, as you will most likely do.
If you deserve ridicule, it's for the bizarre offense you took at the idea of RPGs providing creative freedom.
This is a trend I've noticed, and I think it has to do in part with English as Second Langauge maybe. Most English speakers I think would look at Ian's remark, and assume by "media", he was speaking within the assumed context of gaming media. I don't think Ian was suggesting he has more creative freedom then say, Alan Ginsburg. Maybe he was, who knows?
In any case, the rest of it is Rince then pouncing on that possibly misunderstood word or phrase with both feet, thus starting a few pages of flame wars about who said what. :D
To the OP, I'd say the obvious strength of tabletop RPGs is the interactivity it offers the players. Any computer game, boardgame, cardgame, etc provides structure to deliver a specific kind of experience. That focus is great if you like that experience, but it constraining if you want something else.
A tabletop RPG does have rules, however, those rules are subject to Rule Zero. That's why I prefer games that leave the rules as "physics engine" and let the GM and players handle the rest. Other types of RPGs that include relationship mechanics or any other type of metagame are trying to focus the experience, but they are also introducing constraint as they do so, which is why I avoid Storygames or heavily metagamed Narrative RPGs like the plague.
Some strengths of tabletop role playing games:
(1) It's a social game. It's a game you play face you face with real people rolling dice and laughing together and throwing jokes and having a good time. It appeals to (some) human beings over the cold, lonely interaction with a machine and remote, vague identities online on a basic, instinctive, biological level. It's the pleasure of entertaining oneself with others. And it's not only a pleasure, but it's useful. How many geeks have learned how to make a presentation by playing role playing games and getting used to speak in public that way? I wonder.
(2) This is a game of your imagination. You and your buddies are in complete control of the game content. You do not subject yourself to somebody else's vision of what a tower looks like on the screen, what the light is like, what walls in the game you can and can't go through. Not only are you playing the game itself, but you are also playing with the engine that allows you to emulate the reality you choose to play in: you want skills or classes? Rules light, or rules heavy? Want to make up your own rules, or buy a game that gives you a starting point instead? Etc. You control your make believe from A to Z.
(3) Because of (2), role playing games appeal to curious individuals who like to learn about lots of different things. You go into encyclopedias and newspapers and websites to find ideas. You paint your miniatures. You map your dungeons. You draw sketches or symbols for your characters. You build terrain. The game encourages you to engage lots of different art forms, means of expression, and sources of knowledge. This is a tremendous asset, which is the reason why replacing mythological ideas and archetypes in a game like D&D by made up porte-manteaux bullshit that just serves to "strengthen the IP" is total bullshit and plays against the strength of role playing games. Go back to classical and medieval inspirations. Try to be remotely faithful to the source materials for once, so people can do some imagining based on them and share common cultural references in the real world that will make them feel better about themselves. Etc.
(4) Still related to point (2), the fact that the imagining itself is going on in your head. This in fact me isolating the very important point that you are visualizing the make-believe in your head and sharing it with other people next to you. This is basically the point Gary Gygax was talking about when comparing TRPGs to Computer games: "There is no intimacy; it’s not live. [he said of online games] It’s being translated through a computer, and your imagination is not there the same way it is when you’re actually together with a group of people. It reminds me of one time where I saw some children talking about whether they liked radio or television, and I asked one little boy why he preferred radio, and he said, "Because the pictures are so much better." Which is why miniatures and physical representations should NOT be the D&D game's default mode of play, but an option (however detailed and fun you want it to be) instead.
Unparalled creativity? Perhaps not but unparalelled access to the audience, immediacy of feedback. Meaningful interaction? Yeah, those are unparalelled.
Shit and I thought we were doing it because actually hacking into a top secret military base and blowing everything up was illegal :)
Ben you keep on using that Gygax 'radio' quote I think you are up to about five separate uses :)
I for one will move across to Fully Immersive Virtual Video games as soon as the AI can handle unlimited play options and the neoprene/non-newtonian fluid gel impact suit is on the market :)
Fuck all that imagine it in your head stuff :)
Quote from: David Johansen;506579Unparalled creativity? Perhaps not but unparalelled access to the audience, immediacy of feedback. Meaningful interaction? Yeah, those are unparalelled.
Do you tell stories to your kids ? Use hand puppets ?
I have built a rod for my own back where I read stories at my daughters school and act in the school panto etc . You get a lot more feedback from 200 5-8 year olds screaming at the top of their lungs and actually wetting themselves with laughter and excitement than you do from 4 sad middle aged blokes you have been gaming with since you were 10 no matter how awesome your impersonation of Vlad Tepes was :)
Quote from: jibbajibba;506590Do you tell stories to your kids ? Use hand puppets ?
I have built a rod for my own back where I read stories at my daughters school and act in the school panto etc . You get a lot more feedback from 200 5-8 year olds screaming at the top of their lungs and actually wetting themselves with laughter and excitement than you do from 4 sad middle aged blokes you have been gaming with since you were 10 no matter how awesome your impersonation of Vlad Tepes was :)
The kids aren't as good with collaboration. They can be imaginative, sure, but they have no respect for genre or thematic consistency. I do think the collaborative aspect of RPGs is one of the best aspects of it.
Quote from: two_fishes;506595The kids aren't as good with collaboration. They can be imaginative, sure, but they have no respect for genre or thematic consistency. I do think the collaborative aspect of RPGs is one of the best aspects of it.
I think the collaboration aspect is essential .... but thematic consistency I can get that with my daughter easily she even confounds me on occassion.
So I know for example that children land is in the middle of the sun and that from there the king and queen of children land can control the weather by making the sun hotter or colder. I know they don't need to go to school because they have magic dogs that they can send to school that and shapeshift into themselves, this is why she doesn't need to learn her spellings by the way as it will be the dogs not her that sit the test. I know that in children land all sweets are free but that they don't rot your teeth. When asked how and why shopkeepers would make a profit and why they would keep the shops open I was informed that they love the music that the king and queen of children land can make becuase they love dancing.... and that was just at breakfast this morning....
But what does it all really MEAN, maaaan?!
Quote from: CRKrueger;506540This is a trend I've noticed, and I think it has to do in part with English as Second Langauge maybe. Most English speakers I think would look at Ian's remark, and assume by "media", he was speaking within the assumed context of gaming media. I don't think Ian was suggesting he has more creative freedom then say, Alan Ginsburg. Maybe he was, who knows?
In any case, the rest of it is Rince then pouncing on that possibly misunderstood word or phrase with both feet, thus starting a few pages of flame wars about who said what. :D
Pretty much what I meant. As a gamer you cannot have any more freedom than you have as a GM or Player on the tabletop.
You will never see a Computer Game where you can totally fuck over the program by making a decision that runs counter to planned plot.
Quote from: Rincewind1;506524And I don't give a damn that you will use my words as an argument to ridicule me, as you will most likely do.
No one needs to use your words to ridicule you. You seem to be doing a pretty consistent job of it all by yourself.
For me, the greatest strength of tabletop roleplaying games is that actual play is a synergy of the imaginations of the participants, the structure of the rules, and the stochasticity of the dice.
For me, the greatest weakness of tabletop roleplaying games is that they tend to attract narcissitic twats who want to tell a story rather than play a game.
Quote from: DominikSchwager;506504Did you really just accuse Ian of being a storygamer while comparing your game to art?
Well, "storygamer" and "Swine" are not exactly interchangeable terms in Pundit's language. The Swine is the pretentious type that talks about the game like it's art with empty rhetoric and posing going on besides, whereas the story-gamer is not a role player at all. He plays games as collaborative efforts to create a story. The latter often goes with the former, simply because conceptualizing play as "creating a story" is close to pretending you're an "author" speaking with all the gravitas that term is supposed to carry, but not always.
Quote from: Benoist;506661Well, "storygamer" and "Swine" are not exactly interchangeable terms in Pundit's language. The Swine is the pretentious type that talks about the game like it's art with empty rhetoric and posing going on besides, whereas the story-gamer is not a role player at all. He plays games as collaborative efforts to create a story. The latter often goes with the former, simply because conceptualizing play as "creating a story" is close to pretending you're an "author" speaking with all the gravitas that term is supposed to carry, but not always.
So what you are saying is that he can full well accuse people of being a story gamer while being a pretentious swine himself?
Personally I find pundit's lingo overly complicated. I divide the world into idiots and non-idiots and it has nothing to do with what kind of games they play in which category people land. But then, I have no blog for which I need readers...
QuotePretty much what I meant. As a gamer you cannot have any more freedom than you have as a GM or Player on the tabletop.
You will never see a Computer Game where you can totally fuck over the program by making a decision that runs counter to planned plot.
Fair enough. I'd still say this is problematic distinction, because a Computer Game is a finished product, while a Gaming Session of RPG is the process of the product being created (product, in both cases, being an experience).
QuoteNo one needs to use your words to ridicule you. You seem to be doing a pretty consistent job of it all by yourself.
Didn't know when I pissed in your porridge, but hello to you as well.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;506659For me, the greatest strength of tabletop roleplaying games is that actual play is a synergy of the imaginations of the participants, the structure of the rules, and the stochasticity of the dice.
Pretty much this. Order and chaos (or structure and freedom) blended nicely in a social setting.
The strength of RPGs is the fact that the combination of different individuals imagination forges events that no one could have predicted.
The weakness of rpgs is that it depends on the ability level of the GM. A GM can be trained to be better, but his highest level of accomplishment is dependent on native skill sets.
Quote from: gonster;506752The weakness of rpgs is that it depends on the ability level of the GM. A GM can be trained to be better, but his highest level of accomplishment is dependent on native skill sets.
Yeah this. Not just the GM but the players too. Shitty players can drag a table down, too.
You can have a hell of a time playing Car Wars, but you'll never have a chase scene like Bullitt or The French Connection. You can play music during the game, but you'll never have a soundtrack. You can play a storygame, but you'll never have a convoluted plot that resolves perfectly into a (contrived) ending, like a potboiler novel.
I think the biggest problem games have in this area is trying to import visuals. It's only become worse since game books started having great art. But at the table, you can bring in illustrative pictures or whatever, but you can't really incorporate that into play. Your mental picture just won't match your tablemates'. You're better off not trying overly hard.
The OP's question is too broad. Its like asking how do you compare tiddly winks to the Mona Lisa? How do you compare folkloric dance to Proust? How do you compare sausage-making to high-speed racing?
You can ask, I guess, "what are RPGs for?", in which case the answer is "to create an emulated world and then portray the people who live in that world", and in that sense I think the RPG medium is currently basically unrivaled. As almost anything else (certainly as art, storytelling, visual entertainment, music, dance, sport, craft, etc) it is easily beaten, but that's because RPGs aren't made to do those things any more than a sausage is built for speed.
RPGPundit
Quote from: stu2000;506801I think the biggest problem games have in this area is trying to import visuals.
I've certainly noticed this over the last decade or so, as genre fandom becomes more focused on TV and movie and visual-in-general media and less on fiction and radio.
While there's some useful skills that can be mined from literature, to really up your game (pun intended) as both a player and a GM, dredging up some of the old radio serials and good translations of epic poetry from pre-Christian Europe and the Middle East will do a wonder. If you get a chance to hear a good oral storyteller do the Odyssey or the Iliad, do it.
Quote from: Silverlion;506511we create things on the fly, together, and can't go back and change that.
Without this I don't believe a game can have
meaningful consequences. If you could just go back and change the things you didn't like, the world would feel less real, and nothing would mean anything.
I also think the fact that participants do not have complete say (or are aware of having such) over what is true about a setting plays a fundamental part in how real the world feels.
It's sorta like playing with a Ouija board. Nobody determines the path taken, yet everybody determines the path taken, and nobody is aware of what that path will be, but everybody is responsible for choosing it.
Quote from: Rincewind1;506524And I don't give a damn that you will use my words as an argument to ridicule me, as you will most likely do.
***
We'd be probably ridiculed by the most amateur of theatres - but we try.
***
I don't care if you laugh or point fingers
***
You can call me Swine
I only want to point out that is seems here that you
expect to be ridiculed, and that may have something to do with the reason you are. Have you actually
been to an amateur theatre, or participated in an Improv group? Because barring high school where pretty much every clique was full of vicious sycophants, these places are open and welcoming. They HAVE to be for this kind of thing to work.
Quote from: Rincewind1;506524I practice facial expressions before a mirror, I practice narration, I practice gesticulations in my free time. I read a lot of poetry, not only because I love it, but also because a poetic "flow" can really help you greatly when you narrate, especially in horror. When I read a book, I often note (at least mentally), how to use a good character/plot in my game. I am fascinated by movies, and I use movie terminology and practices to help with my narration - close - up, cuts, lighting, all that jazz. I also take objects, scenes and characters from movies, and sometimes just show them to my players, as they help with visualization. Same if I find an interesting picture on the Net - sometimes I sketch an adventure/world/scene just after looking at the picture. I read a lot of RPG books, so I can nitpick and steal various mechanical gimmicks, and tedbits of GMing advice from them.
This is great advice. There's nothing mockworthy in any of this, and if you said things like this more often instead of telling everyone how wrong they are, you'd find a lot less hostility directed at you.
Quote from: kryyst;506527Which is to say that your enjoyment of them is reliant on the trust of others.
That can be said for a lot of interactive mediums.
Quote from: CRKrueger;506542the obvious strength of tabletop RPGs is the interactivity it offers the players.
Yes, but what
kind of interactivity does it offers?
For example, the dice, maps, and miniatures all offer a communications channel that doesn't exist in other forms of media. On the other hand, this also makes up for the lack of feedback provided by visuals and certain forms of body language.
Even simply playing a TRPG via IM changes the nature of the medium. Voice communication is not present, so being able to express through inflection and accent is eliminated. On the other hand, typing the responses means that there's less 'noise' in the communication, and much more focus on what is happening in the game. And moving from IM to PbP changes things once again, if for no other reason than participants now have more time in which to make their response.
Quote from: CRKrueger;506542A tabletop RPG does have rules, however, those rules are subject to Rule Zero. That's why I prefer games that leave the rules as "physics engine" and let the GM and players handle the rest.
My only problem with Rule Zero is that I have yet to find an RPG where this rule applies to the players. And most RPGs don't so much have an engine that handles 'physics' as they do one that decides matters of life and death.
Quote from: Benoist;506544It's a game you play face you face with real people
I think this is key.
Quote from: Benoist;506544You do not subject yourself to somebody else's vision of what a tower looks like on the screen, what the light is like, what walls in the game you can and can't go through.
This is something TRPGs have in common with other literary mediums. I believe the best RPGs allow every player to have their own unique vision of what their character sees, yet provide a non-disruptive way of resolving differences between those visions when the need arises.
The problem is that these are two contradictory goals, and in pursuit of one you have to make concessions in the other.
Quote from: Benoist;506544role playing games appeal to curious individuals who like to learn about lots of different things.
So does the internet, but you showed me that the nature of that medium has an impact on all the other activities that surround it.
Quote from: two_fishes;506595The kids aren't as good with collaboration. They can be imaginative, sure, but they have no respect for genre or thematic consistency. I do think the collaborative aspect of RPGs is one of the best aspects of it.
I agree, but do TRPGs
require collaboration as it's defined here to work? I'm uncertain.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;506659For me, the greatest strength of tabletop roleplaying games is that actual play is a synergy of the imaginations of the participants, the structure of the rules, and the stochasticity of the dice.
The devil is in the details.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;506659For me, the greatest weakness of tabletop roleplaying games is that they tend to attract narcissitic twats who want to tell a story rather than play a game.
Narcissistic or not, it's definitely a case of someone treating the TRPG medium as if it were the classic literary one.
if I can be said to have any agenda at all, it would be to eliminate this kind of play, and encourage unresolved 'situational' writing instead of plots with specific events. I mean, I don't want to call BWF on this, but this kind of play literally ISN'T SUPPORTED BY THE TRPG MEDIUM! It just plain doesn't work unless you're a really good Mentalist and can force choice on your audience, which isn't really that difficult to do if you know how, but what would be the point?
Quote from: gonster;506752The weakness of rpgs is that it depends on the ability level of the GM. A GM can be trained to be better, but his highest level of accomplishment is dependent on native skill sets.
I find that a TRPG depends on EVERYONE being a good citizen. One bad faith actor (as in element, not theater performer), whether Player or GM, can ruin the game for everyone.
So I do not think it all comes down to the GM's ability. I've had great games with poor GMs because I was working with great players.
Quote from: RPGPundit;507014The OP's question is too broad.
In my defense I didn't have room to
specifically ask about tabletop RPGs in the post title. :)
And it's not like we can't narrow this down in discussion. Discussions like this are designed to refine ideas, not present absolutes.
Quote from: Ian Warner;506479Creative freedom that will never be parelleled by any other media.
I don't know, man. Other players are always compromising your artistic vision. Moreover, if you are playing a published game, you're boxed in from the start.
I'd say writing your own poetry/literature/music/etc has RPGs beat. Whatever you want. No limits.
Quote from: 1989;509011I don't know, man. Other players are always compromising your artistic vision. Moreover, if you are playing a published game, you're boxed in from the start.
If you want to experience this sort of frustration magnified by 100X write and direct a short film. Every fucking decision you make will be questioned- every.fucking.one and I mean things as bullshit as taping a mic cable to a tripod or shooting things from a certain angel. It is fucking maddening because as with anything the people who think they know the most are the ones who have never even so much as looked at a camera before.
I hope to do it again soon.
RPG medium?
Medium for what? Gaming? So, really - your question is what are the differences between board games, war games, video games, larp and tabletop rpg games?
I don't think it's a medium. I think it's it's own thing.
Quote from: Aos;509024If you want to experience this sort of frustration magnified by 100X write and direct a short film. Every fucking decision you make will be questioned- every.fucking.one and I mean things as bullshit as taping a mic cable to a tripod or shooting things from a certain angel. It is fucking maddening because as with anything the people who think they know the most are the ones who have never even so much as looked at a camera before.
I hope to do it again soon.
True that.
Quote from: chaosvoyager;509007In my defense I didn't have room to specifically ask about tabletop RPGs in the post title. :)
And it's not like we can't narrow this down in discussion. Discussions like this are designed to refine ideas, not present absolutes.
You could have elaborated on the subject to your heart's content in the OP, though.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Blackhand;509025RPG medium?
Medium for what? Gaming? So, really - your question is what are the differences between board games, war games, video games, larp and tabletop rpg games?
I don't think it's a medium. I think it's it's own thing.
Tabletop RPGs are definitely a medium to itself. What it offers is the ability to immerse yourself into times and places that you can't access and interact with what you find there. It's a fantastic (pun intended) life-experience medium.
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;509728It's a fantastic (pun intended) life-experience medium.
Hm. I like this. That's well put.
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;509728Tabletop RPGs are definitely a medium to itself. What it offers is the ability to immerse yourself into times and places that you can't access and interact with what you find there. It's a fantastic (pun intended) life-experience medium.
Medium for life experience? If you are thinking your games will help you survive in the real world, you might be one of those people who genuinely need help.
There is no such thing as a 'medium' for 'life experience' and you're misusing the word 'medium'.
It's not a 'medium' for anything.
I assume that when you say 'medium' you are attempting to conflate RPG's with some sort of art. While there could (conceivably) be an argument that RPG's are art, I have to say (in my opionion as an artist) that they are not. For me, the art part is the writing and painting I do, not the actual play.
Roleplaying Games are not an art form. I'm sorry. It's not interpretive dance, it's not music and it's not sculpture or painting or even prose. No one else in the world cares how awesome and beautiful my roll to defeat the troll was, or whether or not the other players thought my plan of ambush was awesome enough to execute.
Unless you mean that RPG's are inherently psychic and can channel spirits. To which I say - there's a better argument for that.
I think what the OP is talking about is how the HOBBY stands up to other HOBBIES such as video games, sports, board games, CCG's, MMO's and tabletop wargames. Before you get started, of those - a few could be considered art, but just barely and not really as a whole.
Quote from: Blackhand;509821Medium for life experience? If you are thinking your games will help you survive in the real world, you might be one of those people who genuinely need help.
That's not what he means.
Quote from: Benoist;509827That's not what he means.
Care to elaborate?
The strength of the TTRPG as a form of play is the GM, having which allows you to improvise responses to presented scenarios.
Everything else about TTRPGs is mostly just making occasional use of side-activities to service the primary goal. Writing, to produce scenarios, which are presented to the players, who play the game by responding to them. Acting, which is how the players sometimes communicate their responses to the scenarios. Visual arts, which is how some scenario information is sometimes provided to the players. Music, which is occasionally used to set mood.
The roleplaying game is a 'medium' only in the very loosest figurative sense of the word.