Just what it says above.
I want:
1) A game which lets me fashion a game more similar in results to folklore and myth: Beowulf, Mabinogion, Charlemagne. or better fiction than video games.
2) I want and like magic as an option of players albeit I like it to be mythic of scope, and perhaps unreliable.
3) I don't want characters to begin necessarily as poor slobs--they can be as effective, or ineffective as need be for the campaign (if they're a peasant levy fresh in training for the first time, then so be it, if they're battle weary knights, that too..)
1) I want to have a system where I can make a fantasy character with the powers and abilities *I* want. That's why most of my 3e characters have been fighters -- they're the class with some real choices.
2) Much, much simpler rules for NPCs and monsters. You can make some damn cool monsters in D&D with templates and class levels, but I don't have the time.
3) A more flexible magic system able to simulate fictional magic at least passibly. As I've pointed out many times and many places before, D&D magic doesn't even do a good job of simulating the magic of the Dying Earth books. :)
Not that I'm a D&D or a 3e hatah. I just have other gaming needs. :)
1. swords
2. orcs
3. gold
Roughly in order of importance.
1) Looks and feels like fantasy fiction, from the combat to the magic. Now of course this would need to be tweaked for whatever genre you're trying to emulate, but it should emulate *something*. The less it feels like I'm in a fantasy movie or novel the less interesting the game is.
2) No classes, no levels. Nice little skill or point based system where I can build what I want. Keep the system simple overall.
3) Social or character mechanics. They don't even have to do all that much, I just like having something so that when I look at the character sheet I get an idea of who this character is, not just what they can do.
1) I'm more with Cyberzombie, I want a magic system that can reasonably model magic as described in the fiction that I like...usually less-flashy, more subtle, or at least more limited. An example is ASoIaF.
2) Flexible character building, once again to make it easier to draw inspiration from fiction and model it adequately. Classes are ok, as long as the flexibility is there.
3) A relatively simple (or at least easy to understand) combat system that still allows for some tactical choices.
1) I want a system for a fantasy game that doesn't revolve around powers, abilities, or similar superhero-esque concepts. I want a system that acknowledges that anyone can reasonably attempt to do almost anything, and that the difference between likely success and likely failure is a combination of training and natural inclination.
2) I want a system for a fantasy game where there can be high magic, or low magic, or no magic. I don't want magic to essential to the fantasy equation. I want a system where I can remove the current system of magic easily and substitute another (or run multiple magic systems simultaneously) with ease.
3) I want a system for a fantasy game that doesn't treat combat as "half the game". I want a system of combat that isn't tactical in nature, that encourages players to roleplay their combats rather than fight like dueling chessmasters.
Quote from: Roudi1) I want a system for a fantasy game that doesn't revolve around powers, abilities, or similar superhero-esque concepts. I want a system that acknowledges that anyone can reasonably attempt to do almost anything, and that the difference between likely success and likely failure is a combination of training and natural inclination.
2) I want a system for a fantasy game where there can be high magic, or low magic, or no magic. I don't want magic to essential to the fantasy equation. I want a system where I can remove the current system of magic easily and substitute another (or run multiple magic systems simultaneously) with ease.
3) I want a system for a fantasy game that doesn't treat combat as "half the game". I want a system of combat that isn't tactical in nature, that encourages players to roleplay their combats rather than fight like dueling chessmasters.
Iron Heroes is good for number 2, ok for number 1, and completely shot out of the water by number 3.
1. Room.
2. Orc.
3. Pie.
:p
Anyway, what I really want:
1. A scaffolding upon which a fun adventure can be built
2. Rules that are complex enough to be fun to dig into, but simple enough not to interfere with enjoyment of the game
3. Enough diverse elements that a wide variety of people can play the game and find something they really enjoy about it.
1) A background where the yearly income of the kingdoms is set, along with their numbers and quality of men-at-arms.
a) A good manorial management system upon which the economy is based
b) A good Model for city economics, guilds.
c) Trade rules for fun and profit. And complex trade rules for explaining how it really works
2) A decent high fantasy masscombat system that interrelates with the economic realities of the world in question
a) Some supplemental Boardgames to let you dish out past and recent wars of the gameworld
3) A background that takes into account the above rules in explaining the results of the wars and conflicts of the past.
Here goes my fantasy RPG wish list:
1. My favorite kind of fantasy is Sword & Sorcery (Howard, Lieber, etc.), so I want a game that is quick, gritty, and deadly. Life is cheap and the PCs are not neccessarily the biggest sharks in the tank. Social connections and conflict should be a big emphasis. No world-saving heroics, just ass-saving ones.
2. A magic system that treats magic as a strange, unnatural force rather than as technology (ala D&D). It should be vast in power, unreliable, terrible in cost, and largely out of the hands of the PCs. In the end, the main baddie (a wizard, natch) should be vulnerable to being run through with a PC's sword during the complicated ritual that is required for the terrible doom to be unleashed.
3. I like very light rule systems. I don't want or need a crunchy tactical emphasis in combat resolution. I play a lot of wargames, so I get my fix there. I just want something dramatic and cool to happen. Preferably sooner rather than later.
What game fits all these requirements? Fucked if I know...
Of the D20 line of games the best fit I've found so far is Conan. In the past I have used whatever system I liked at the time, including some fun games using the Matrix rules by Chris Engels. I am certainly open to other suggestions.
TGA
Quote from: The Good AssyrianOf the D20 line of games the best fit I've found so far is Conan. In the past I have used whatever system I liked at the time, including some fun games using the Matrix rules by Chris Engels. I am certainly open to other suggestions.
TGA
What you're describing sounds very much like Iron Heroes - you should check it out.
Quote from: Name LipsWhat you're describing sounds very much like Iron Heroes - you should check it out.
Sweet! I have heard of Iron Heroes, but I haven't looked at it closely. I think that I will now...
TGA
Quote from: ThjalfiIron Heroes is good for number 2, ok for number 1, and completely shot out of the water by number 3.
Hey Thjalfi (or anyone else who has experience with Iron Heroes),
Your comment (about number 3) leads me to believe that Iron Heroes is more rules crunchy than light. Is that correct? Can you expand on that?
Thanks!
TGA
Iron Heroes is so crunchy it won't get soggy in milk!
We've got to get a review of Iron Heroes up here. As much as we pimp it, we need something we can just point to. :)
I'll post something on it when I get the time -- unless someone else beats me to it.
1. Flexible system that emulates fantasy literature or movies, either built to emulate different versions or built to emulate relatively low-magic worlds (though single spells can be powerful).
After reading the above, I'll change that to:
1. A setting that incorporates whatever rules and abilities run rampant in the world, i.e. a consitent setting from single adventurer to mighty nation.
2. Flexible and "light" system that facilitates play and helps keeping preparation times low.
3. Mechanics to built a character, not just a string of numbers and abilities.
Interesting responses ;)
Its neat to see the differences and similarities.
Cool.
Quote from: CyberzombieIron Heroes is so crunchy it won't get soggy in milk!
So crunchy it's like that damn breakfast cereal commercial.
Three things huh?
1. Highly tactical game play based around maneuver and option choice.
2. The ability to play the full life cycle of the character, generational games is where it's at for me in a fantasy setting.
3. The ability to easily and naturally handed adventuring parties of dissimilar experience/power levels.
There's three. I have lots more. I'm rather demanding about my fantasy settings.
1. A simple, but flexible, resolution mechanic.
2. An overall system that allows player characters to develop, but still remain challenged within a traditional fantasy framework (a bit to the grim and gritty side).
3. A flexible magic system that allows for creativity without getting overly complex or so high powered it strains credulity in the setting.
I still haven't found what I'm looking for, but maybe True20 will come close.
1. Strangeness. I like strange alien races and magical technology. The setting itself should be a little off kilter with weird landscapes and mysterious locales. Bizzare cults and the like would also be appreciated.
2. Fast and brutal combat. Yep rock&roll man. Quick fights with all those funky moves one sees on tv and the movies.
3. Magic. Extremely flexible. I would like each character or npc who uses "magic" to use it differently, unless they belong to the same cult or whatever.
Regards,
David R.
1. Something that is not Fantasy.
2. Something that is so Fantasy-lite, Star Wars would have trouble being ran in it.
3. Something that magic is an option, one that doesn't drastically affect the way the game is ran.
Okay, so you can probably tell, I'm not a big Fantasy fan. Regardless to the above, which is how I truly feel, I will attempt to be a boon to this thread, as opposed to the opposite (which is what I'm told is what opposed really means - the opposite).
1. Something that magic is an option - one that doesn't drastically affect the way a game, any game, is ran in that setting. I don't know how many times I've ran a fully non-magic D&D game and the party got TPK'd, resurrected, and TPK'd again. D&D is hinged on magic.
2. Something that doesn't follow this exact formula: Travel, fight, treasure, level up, repeat. While it isn't bad, I just think too much of the current D&D line of thinking is COMBAT (which could have something to do with my suspected WotC's "Back to the Dungeon" attitude), as opposed to getting experience for all manner of other options - such as exploring, settling disputes with words, etc. Yes, I know there are rules for this, but they feel...limiting (mind you, I have not picked up DMG II, so I may be out-of-date here). Also, I need to state that I am not against combat - far from it, I like to try to kill my PCs (anyone who knows me, knows this to be an undeniable truth) - I just like options.
3. More options to classes. I mean, come on, it just feels so limiting to use only the "core" classes, and what the hell is the deal with Prestige Classes? You can't even get them until 7th+ level! That's what I love about d20 Modern - 4th level, baby and you're in, if you want. Also, why can't you freely multiclass - or at least, why is it such a stiff penalty? (In case you haven't noticed, I'm talking solely about 3.0/3.5 d20 D&D - since that's the only Fantasy system I've ever played. Ever.) Enh. I'm done now.
Just weighing in.
Peterson
1. Inspire mad and fun ideas that me and my friends can use at the table during play that will give birth to even more mad and fun ideas.
I think that is all.
1. the system must be story centric. i could care less how big my AC can get, its the story that matters. As such the setting much be interesting and inspiring. i've seen WAY too many " Blue fighter" type PCs for my own good...
2. no levels, no classes. make some stats, choose your skills and special abililities and there ya go. levels and classes are far too limiting on the flexibility of the character. a character should be defined by thier skills, what they can do, not by their job.
3. a system that accomidates characters who rely on being skilled, as opposed to gear whores. +45 platemail of DOOM is all fine and dandy, but what happens if you lose it? most likely a slow, painfull death at the hands of whoever stole your bling.
EDIT: well, having re-read my post i have realized that i just put down what i DONT want in a fantasy rpg... hmm... ill try this again
1. there must be a solid and well thought out setting. Role playing is about just that, playing the role of a character in an imaginary world. to do so effectively and enjoyably, for me at least, you have to know where you are, whats going on, what your characters motivations are and such. it also requires a certain amount of emotional attachment to the characters, both PC and NPC. if you dont have these things all you end up with is a dungeon crawl, which can be fun in its place, but should really serve as only a small portion of the RPG experience in genreal.
2. the system should be simple and intuitive, so it doesnt interfere with the presentation of the story. i have SR and battletech to more than satisfy my craving for gaming complexity.
3. um, thats basically it, all the other stuff i crave in a good fantasy RPG depends on the players, the DM, and the type and tone of the story we create.
Quote from: Paka1. Inspire mad and fun ideas that me and my friends can use at the table during play that will give birth to even more mad and fun ideas.
I think that is all.
This is what I want in RPGs in general. But i dig what you are saying. I have read a lot of your posts on RPGNET, and have always liked your contributions to the discussion at hand.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David RThis is what I want in RPGs in general. But i dig what you are saying.
I guess I dig many different kinds of fantasy RPG's and I'm not sure what I can distill between them other than that.
Quote from: David RI have read a lot of your posts on RPGNET, and have always liked your contributions to the discussion at hand.
Thanks, David, I appreciate you saying so.
Quote from: The Good AssyrianHere goes my fantasy RPG wish list:
1. My favorite kind of fantasy is Sword & Sorcery (Howard, Lieber, etc.), so I want a game that is quick, gritty, and deadly. Life is cheap and the PCs are not neccessarily the biggest sharks in the tank. Social connections and conflict should be a big emphasis. No world-saving heroics, just ass-saving ones.
2. A magic system that treats magic as a strange, unnatural force rather than as technology (ala D&D). It should be vast in power, unreliable, terrible in cost, and largely out of the hands of the PCs. In the end, the main baddie (a wizard, natch) should be vulnerable to being run through with a PC's sword during the complicated ritual that is required for the terrible doom to be unleashed.
3. I like very light rule systems. I don't want or need a crunchy tactical emphasis in combat resolution. I play a lot of wargames, so I get my fix there. I just want something dramatic and cool to happen. Preferably sooner rather than later.
No need to post mine, Good Assyrian did it for me :)
Quote from: Name LipsWhat you're describing sounds very much like Iron Heroes - you should check it out.
Except he said rules lite. Iron Heroes is at least as crunchy as D&D 3.x.
Quote from: TechnomancerNo need to post mine, Good Assyrian did it for me :)
Glad you liked it! If you are ever in Austin we should get together to compare mighty thews and run through an evil wizard with our swords...that doesn't sound quite right, does it? :p
Quote from: TechnomancerExcept he said rules lite. Iron Heroes is at least as crunchy as D&D 3.x.
Well, on the advice of serveral people on this thread I stopped by my FLGS this weekend to check out Iron Heroes. Very interesting, indeed! Sadly, as Technomancer and others have already pointed out, it was way too crunchy for my purposes.
Here is a brief breakdown of the systems I have tried for Sword & Sorcery fantasy games:
Crunchy ----------------------------------------------------------> Not Crunchy
GURPS, D20 Conan, Epiphany (BTRC), Chris Engle's Matrix Game (nothing to do with the movies, btw)
I have also thought about using True20 and Chaosium's Prince Valiant. Right now True 20 is a big contender, but it is *still* too crunchy for my tastes. What can I say, I am a bitch to please...:heh:
TGA
First, I want rules that allow for fast paced play. I like the others to play, but waiting 30 minutes to play again is boredom. Why should they be patient with me also?
Second, I want my character as I see him, not as the character larva. Most games don’t last 15 'levels', so I prefer not to wait.
Third, I would like much variety. To smite orcs is good, but maybe we would rather smite the four-armed green men of mars. Maybe we want to trade with the green men. Maybe we want to rocket to mars and back. Maybe sail the void to Orion instead.
I don’t care is I roll d20 or 3d6. Levels? Why not, but also why?
1. Awesome character archetypes, whether they're character classes or pre-builds. Shadowrun (while not fantasy) had me at the words "street samurai."
2. Fun combat rules with lots of choices and an easy to use, flexible core mechanic.
3. Cool monsters. I don't want to fight rats and wolves. I want to fight rats with acid blood and fire breathing wolves bred in the pits of Hell itself.
1) Hot
2) Elf
3) Chicks
1. The game writer knows what kind of fun they're trying to deliver.
2. They make it clear to me what kind of fun that is.
3. They deliver it.
1) Large Guns
2) Hot Chicks
3) mandatory Blood Bath
Just Kidding:heh:
Quote from: Eli the Vile1) Large Guns
2) Hot Chicks
3) mandatory Blood Bath
Just Kidding:heh:
You have just described the beginning, middle and ending off every Feng Shui game i have ever run....i wish i was joking.
Regards,
David R.
1. Monsters to Kill
2. Treasure to Gain
3. Enough roleplay to keep 1 and 2 from becoming boring.
Quote from: mearls1. Awesome character archetypes, whether they're character classes or pre-builds. Shadowrun (while not fantasy) had me at the words "street samurai."
I would class it is fantasy, myself. More importantly, though, you're dead on. One thing I DON'T like about True20 is the boring base classes.
Quote from: mearls3. Cool monsters. I don't want to fight rats and wolves. I want to fight rats with acid blood and fire breathing wolves bred in the pits of Hell itself.
You can do cool things with rats and wolves (especially if you give them stats a little bit more like real life -- 3e is better than previous editions, but still doesn't do animals justice) if you play them intelligently, though!
But I see your point. Fantasy needs the fantastic in it.
Hm. My list varies, depending on if I feel like describing the setting or the system, but here are three things I'd like to see in one game:
1. Simple in-session mechanics. Once we're in the middle of play, nobody should ever have to open a rulebook to see how something works. I don't particularly mind tactical play, but I hate fiddly. It doesn't have to be quite as simple as Over the Edge, but probably not much more complicated either.
2. In contrast with #1, an interesting, flavorful system for character advancement. The best thing about Exalted isn't really playing the game (though that is fun too, at least with a good GM), but progressing your character. If it looks like the schematics to a nuclear power plant, all the better. Convoluted is fine when it doesn't interfere with roleplaying.
3. A rich, multi-faceted world which can withstand truly epic storylines without having to restart the world every time an adventure is over.
Quote from: CyberzombieOne thing I DON'T like about True20 is the boring base classes.
Yeah, that's something that's nagged at the back of my mind about True20, also. d20 Modern has the same weakness, even though I understand why it has what it has - but at least many of the advanced classes and prestige classes are more flavorful.
What I want in a RPG:
1. As hinted at above, give me lots of evocative archetypes to play with. Yeah, I know, some people call for more generic classes so they can build their own archetypes, but I like seeing actual classes or professions in a game with cool titles like Sector Ranger or Barbarian or Wizard that actually attempt to match game mechanics up with the image evoked by the class name.
2. Options - I like 'em. Give me lots of 'em. Unearthed Arcana, both the original and the successor, are perfect examples of entire books devoted to just plain options. The Psionics Toolkit is another of my favorite examples - a variety of cool goodies that made me actually become interested in psionics. But it's very important that options be included in the core - the 3.5 DMG is a good example. I want options so I can tailor my campaign to my taste.
3. Foresee the unforeseeable - that is, provide game mechanics to cover contingencies not addressed by specific game rules. 3e does this, but there are a lot of other games that have it also. Castles & Crusades, for example, has its SIEGE engine to plug the holes that 1e AD&D had.
1) I'll second Mearls' "Strong Archetypes".
2) Engaging, flexible, and (most important) OBVIOUS adventuring model. In recent years, all too many games out there seem interesting in concept, but once you make characters and gather 'round the table, it's not to clear what characters in this game DO.
3) A robust, flexible, and self-consistent rules system. I've never considered rules light too functional for gaming.
Quote from: CyberzombieOne thing I DON'T like about True20 is the boring base classes.
For me, this is one of the things I love about True20. To me, the roles (classes, for the uninitiated) are no different than skills or feats...simply another one of the legos I use to build my kick-ass character concept. The attraction, and excitement I get is from the character paths, and specifically how I might tailor them to my own personal style or "vision".
Quote from: CyberzombieOne thing I DON'T like about True20 is the boring base classes.
If you like the rest of the system, you might try Blue Rose. It has advancement progresions plotted out for different occupations, from what I've heard. Also, the Caliphate Nights setting in the new True20 book has the same thing, I believe.
Just, you know, if you like the rest of the system.
What 3 Things: Do you want in a Fantasy RPG?
Whatever it is it should be short lived so we can get to another genre. :deviousgrin:
Okay to be fair if the fantasy fits the following then I can put up with it for longer.
1a) Heroic - It should be about fighting great evils because someone has too, and either no one else will, or no one else is able.
1b) Serious risk of death - You arn't really heroic if for a sum of gold you can be up and walking around after being killed, or if the GM gives you plot immunity. If you aren't risking anything then it isn't heroic in my book. (Hence a dislike for GM's that overprotect players for the sake of the 'story', and Raise Dead like spells).
1c) Not about treasure grabbing and raiding tombs just to finance the next tomb raid. If you kill an enemy you leave his corpse and move on to the next villan, you don't pause to loot him of everything valuable and then go back to town to sell all the stuff you can't use. (My biggest hate in D&D) Again it goes back to the Heroic line of things, you rarely see heros looting the dead in books or films, unless it's to get a key or because they have no weapons at all.
2) Class - I tend to like them to be honest they give focus, enforce genre stereotypes and stops dull jack-of-all-trades like characters. Gives each player an area they excel at, and weaknesses they must work round. Also a reason why then need to work together as a team. I've played none classed fantasy games and most of the time players just ended making characters you could fashion within a classed based system anyway, because those are the stereotypes of the genre.
3) Magic being out of the players hands, or dangerous and unrealiable in it. Magic should be something to be feared.
In no particular order:
1) A character creation system that lets me create the character in the vein of my favorite fantasy authors (Howard, Leiber, Moorcock, etc) wothout having to jump through a lot of hoops. Not just roughly the same archetype, but a system that actually lets me do the kind of stuff that a Conan or a Mouser could do.
2) A magic system where magic is rare, mysterious, and evocative.
3) A combat system where speed and skill is at least as important as strength and armor.
1. Old-school D&D's fluff. I want a rainbow of dragon colors, a slew of humanoids, architecturally and ecologically-ridiculous dungeons, undead turning, Elemental Planes, the whole deal.
2. Rules very much unlike D&D. Something rules-light and not class/level-based like BESM or Fudge with a good freeform magic system.
3. A good play group packaged with every copy of the rules. :)
1. Epic setting.
2. Fancy swordplay.
3. Kick-ass magic rules. ;)
1. Options. I'm not a pure tactician, but engaging conflict resolution is a part of the entertainment for me.I also want a great diversity in abilities. This is where good mechanical design should show itself.
2. Fun and engaging awesome. It shouldn't be dry. Thinks should go boom and bash and stuff. Fantastic imagery. A fun and crazy world where anything could happen.
3. The tools to craft a inherently consistent world, no matter how crazy ass wacked it is from the outside.
I feel well covered by D&D as is, except for some slipups on the "good mechanical design should show itself" part of 1 (PrC's are fucked up).
I think M&M would work for me as well.
Quote from: goldI think M&M would work for me as well.
I've used M&M1E for a Dark Fantasy game for some months (Dark, High, Fantasy meaning epic struggles, Dark Lord, nasty things, sense of wonder, undead who still have the screaming souls of who they were when alive trapped inside, unable to stop the body powered by magic from slaughtering their loved ones..)
It's been pretty decent and useful, but I'm switching to something more optimal in the next campaign arc (if the PC's manage to survive their showdown with the Dark Lord..if..;) )
M&M1E did hold up well though, its just a bit to crunch happy for my tastes and takes a bit more work to get to the things I want in play. I want something optimized for the world/setting.
I just need a spark of inspiration.
1) Risk. Reward and thrills can't be gained without the possibility of danger.
2) Magic that is vibrant, fascinating and makes me go "Oh, damn, that's cool" at least once per session.
3) Tactical play that places complementary premiums on speed, strategy and strength.