I'm looking more closely at WFRP 4e and I see that many of C7's products focus on the town of Ubersreik as the hub of a campaign. It's a fair-sized place with 6,000-7,000 inhabitants, and it has the strife of having the local lord very recently (seems the default intention is that this happened only days or perhaps weeks prior to the campaign's start) displaced by decree of the Emperor and enforced by his troops from Altdorf. In addition to the various plots in town, it's also located near the main pass leading to Bretonnia and has several dwarf holds (some in ruins) in the nearby mountains. And, of course, it's on a major river, so all those Old World adventures that start on a barge work in easily.
I'm not at all opposed to using Ubersreik as the center of my campaign, but I also purchased their Middenheim sourcebook, and I've always liked that city since my early days of WFRP 2e. I see a great deal that can be done with either location, but they really are not so close together that frequent travel between them would be likely. And then there's the fact that Middenheim lacks a river...
So, anyone have any views on Ubersreik? I'm really eager to hear from those familiar with the 4e materials, but I wouldn't mind hearing from those familiar with other versions too.
I suspect that Ubersreik was chosen, particularly as a focus for the Starter Set, because it's iconic to the successful Vermintide series of games, both of which are set within and around it - the developers were clearly fans of the WHFRP line as there's more than a few nods to it and for people who've already had a taste of Fantasy from it will immediately recognise the name and some of the locations, thus making a transition easier.
Personally I'm not a fan of using it for just that reason as it immediately turns the mind towards Vermintide rather than this campaign, even among players who were experienced with WHFRP before it.
I'm not familiar with Vermintide. I'll look into it.
Edit: Ok, I looked into it. A pair of video games. Sounds like it might be a good time killer, but it's not open world and I don't think it would really add any value to my understanding of Ubersreik. Does anyone that played it have any input on what it would add to using Ubersreik as a tabletop setting?
Quote from: HappyDaze on December 27, 2020, 10:02:02 AM
I'm not familiar with Vermintide. I'll look into it.
Edit: Ok, I looked into it. A pair of video games. Sounds like it might be a good time killer, but it's not open world and I don't think it would really add any value to my understanding of Ubersreik. Does anyone that played it have any input on what it would add to using Ubersreik as a tabletop setting?
I think the river and extensive sewers made for an easier foothold for the skaven. Which is why in the game you are battling hordes of them and in some places in the city the population (human) has abandoned those sections to the rats. The second game, Uber was lost, but you can revisit. The game is not my flavor, but is a lot of fun, and the banter between the 5 characters is hilarious at times.
For the first few adventures it is a great introduction to the Warhammer setting and after players get used to adventuring in and around this area there is Altdorf, Nuln, Middenheim, etc in which things are a little less "fast and loose" with more heavy hitters around that aren't going to tolerate a bumbling group of adventurers. In smaller places you can usually leg it out into the forest and try to stay alive until things blow over. Irritate the wrong person in Altdorf and they will send people out into the forest to get you.
Quote from: bat on December 29, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
For the first few adventures it is a great introduction to the Warhammer setting and after players get used to adventuring in and around this area there is Altdorf, Nuln, Middenheim, etc in which things are a little less "fast and loose" with more heavy hitters around that aren't going to tolerate a bumbling group of adventurers. In smaller places you can usually leg it out into the forest and try to stay alive until things blow over. Irritate the wrong person in Altdorf and they will send people out into the forest to get you.
The 4e Ubersreik setting is a town under martial law. That's not necessarily going to be fast and loose in dealing with troublemakers.
I wonder how my players will side in the local/Jungfrued vs. Altdorf tensions...
I am aware of the current condition. I see it as if my hometown in Idaho were under martial law as opposed to where I lived on the East Coast. Resources. A smaller area cannot have control everywhere and where many know each other there are some leniencies you will not find in larger areas. This can also go awry in some cases, but I still stick to my "You can leg it to the forest" and travel to "That minor royal in Altdorf is sending a team of mercenaries after you".
The Ubersreik materials I have are a little sparse in explaining just what Jungfrued did that so upset the Emperor. Can anyone share a summary?
Quote from: HappyDaze on December 30, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
The Ubersreik materials I have are a little sparse in explaining just what Jungfrued did that so upset the Emperor. Can anyone share a summary?
My understanding is it's an open plot hook for the GM to take advantage of, to potentially be linked with The Enemy Within campaign.
Quote from: Snark Knight on December 30, 2020, 03:38:45 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze on December 30, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
The Ubersreik materials I have are a little sparse in explaining just what Jungfrued did that so upset the Emperor. Can anyone share a summary?
My understanding is it's an open plot hook for the GM to take advantage of, to potentially be linked with The Enemy Within campaign.
So then I didn't miss it so much as it's never explicitly stated? OK, I can work with open plot hooks. I just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed something big they had set-up for something specific.
I prefer my WFRP to focus closer to Kislev than Bretonnia, the omnipresence of Chaos forces makes it way more dangerous and tense.
Anything south of Altdorf seems....too safe...
Of course, you can temper that as a DM and up the dosage of threats no matter where the campaign is located, I just find it easier to justify that escalation in Talabecland, Nordland or the Ostmark.
Quote from: BronzeDragon on January 01, 2021, 10:51:11 AM
I prefer my WFRP to focus closer to Kislev than Bretonnia, the omnipresence of Chaos forces makes it way more dangerous and tense.
Anything south of Altdorf seems....too safe...
Of course, you can temper that as a DM and up the dosage of threats no matter where the campaign is located, I just find it easier to justify that escalation in Talabecland, Nordland or the Ostmark.
I'm not looking to have a game where my players face off against "Chaos forces" in the forms seen in WFB armies. I much prefer the idea of dealing with other non-Chaos threats like rogues and bandits and opposing nobles, not to mention Chaos cults operating within the Empire, small bands of beastmen or greenskins in the forests, the Skaven hidden underground, and similar threats. All of these threats are well represented in the Reikland, and make good situations to drop WFRP parties into. OTOH, I think the actual WFB-level threats that will hit the areas you mention a few decades later are not very useful to WFRP.
I've never played WFB, so I wouldn't know.
Indeed, if you want to keep it less chaos-focused, the Reikland will do fine.
Quote from: BronzeDragon on January 01, 2021, 06:59:29 PM
I've never played WFB, so I wouldn't know.
Indeed, if you want to keep it less chaos-focused, the Reikland will do fine.
When you think of "Chaos forces," what do you envision? Corrupted individuals amongst the citizenry.of the Empire participating in hidden cults that may or may not understand the evil power they serve,,or in-your-face warbands of half-naked psychos (many with obvious mutations), massive armoured warriors sporting spiky bits, and bands of daemons? The latter is WFB.
In all honesty I've always thought of Chaos as both things.
The more overt warbands roaming the woods of the Empire pillaging and destroying, and the insidious subversion of the Empire by infiltration, subterfuge, assassination, etc.
Quote from: BronzeDragon on January 01, 2021, 08:45:47 PM
In all honesty I've always thought of Chaos as both things.
The more overt warbands roaming the woods of the Empire pillaging and destroying, and the insidious subversion of the Empire by infiltration, subterfuge, assassination, etc.
In the default starting year of 2512, there are no overt warbands of Chaos roaming the Empire, not even in the northeastern provinces. At best, you might have herds of a few dozen beastmen. The hostile armies of Chaos don't start showing up to battle the Empire again (there was a previous war against them 200 years earleir) for a few more decades.
Interesting, since the timeline explicitly says:
"The World as it is today. Exploration continues, and the incursions of Chaos are becoming active once more."
Greetings!
Indeed. According to the WHFR lore--of 1E--within the Empire, and the borders of the civilized realms, such as Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea, and such--bands of cultists, crazed Necromancers and Wizards, insane doctor and alchemists, as well as your assortment of ruthless brigands and mercenaries, are generally the norm. However, within the local forests, marshes, and mountains there are occasional warbands of Beastmen, and Chaos Warriors. Out on the more distant frontiers, however, larger warbands and whole tribes of Beastmen are to be found, with more Chaos Warriors, and terrifying Chaos Sorcerers.
And always, the power of Chaos and the Dark Gods grows! Lurking beyond the horizons, just beyond the sight of normal men, the armies of Chaos gather in their might, gibbering and baying for the blood of the mortal races!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on January 02, 2021, 04:12:44 PM
Greetings!
Indeed. According to the WHFR lore--of 1E--within the Empire, and the borders of the civilized realms, such as Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea, and such--bands of cultists, crazed Necromancers and Wizards, insane doctor and alchemists, as well as your assortment of ruthless brigands and mercenaries, are generally the norm. However, within the local forests, marshes, and mountains there are occasional warbands of Beastmen, and Chaos Warriors. Out on the more distant frontiers, however, larger warbands and whole tribes of Beastmen are to be found, with more Chaos Warriors, and terrifying Chaos Sorcerers.
And always, the power of Chaos and the Dark Gods grows! Lurking beyond the horizons, just beyond the sight of normal men, the armies of Chaos gather in their might, gibbering and baying for the blood of the mortal races!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
In 2512, most Chaos warbands are still fighting one another. The big end times push against Kislev and the Empire is still decades away. Up until that happens, many in the civilized nations doubt Chaos is about to return (not unlike the return of Sauron in LotR), which doesn't really make sense if they are constantly warring with them.