Quote from: Fifth Element;324699You might not have made the point I'm arguing against, fuckwad, but that doesn't mean it wasn't made.

I know the point was made, but only by you. And for fucks sake learn to insult someone properly rather than coming across like a low rent Bevis and Butthead.

Quote from: Fifth Element;324701You misunderstand what I mean by standard, apparently. It's standard in that it's the market leader. It's by far the most recognizable RPG.

I understand it. It's just a fucking irrelevance like the rest of your post. The one thing its not smart to copy from D&D its its fucking prices until you have copied its sales numbers. Which is why no other RPG does.

Quote from: J Arcane;323147You may not have realized it, with your own deliberate assumptions about my sources and motives, but it's what you said nonetheless.

I'm not looking to any past time to judge the price of the game, I'm looking to the alternatives sitting on the shelves as we speak, and compared to every single one of those, including the most popular one of all, the game is goddamn expensive.  $100 is a lot for a roleplaying game, by any modern standard of the present market of not just the game itself, but even to comparable gaming media.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough when I carefully wrote that 100$ will make WFRP one of the most expensive games out there. Then again, maybe you should stick to pretty pictures and leave the wordy things to others.

QuoteBut you didn't stop to think about that, no, you just continue on with your amateurish attempts to descredit and invalidate any negative opinion of the game, as you've so far done in every fucking thread about it.

I have? I remember arguing that the price doesn't seem too high for what you will get and quoting a few lines from FFG's site to straighten-out a few misconceptions. Oh, and having an exchange with RPGPundit about one of his unfortunate misplaced outbursts. I note that even he seems to have mellowed somewhat on the subject since more information has come out from people who've actually played the game.

Other than that, I have nothing to say about the game. I haven't played it and I haven't seen it. As far as I know, it has about as much chance of being the game of the year as it has of being a giant stinking turd. But we won't know until it comes out, won't we? After all, only an imbecile of pantagruelian (sorry, I mean "big") proportions would judge a game without having at least leafed through it. Right?  

QuoteSo yes, that's exactly what you fucking said, you dishonest twat, you're just too fucking dumb and too fucking bought into your own lies to realize it.

I recommend the big chain restaurants, they usually have the most pictures on their menus.

Quote from: Aos;323177Actually, the 1990's was another time. A time of economic prosperity, and copious disposable income- unlike the current day. furthermoe, there weren't 100's of free RPGs available on line in 1990's.  Also, France is another country, so your example is not only from another time, but another country- and hemispshere, from the one most of live in.
And, one more thing, fatboy, my skull is as thin as an eggshell.

I don't have much to say about the first part of your post.

But if you believe that everyone who speaks French lives in France, then there must be a whole lot of water in that thin skull of yours. My location is right under my name ignoramusboy.

Quote from: Fifth Element;324702That's clearly not actual play, but I wonder if it's based on the actual rules of the game, or whether it's some guy's cynical impression based on some press releases?

Yeah, it's a jokey, satirical poke at what we've seen so far...with a bit of artistic license thrown in.

I'll hunt a link down...

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=149&efcid=3&efidt=179956

Thanks for linking that satire, OneHorseTown. That was fantastic.

Having clicked on your link, I see the same pointless debate on the price entry tag wages on that forum too. For the life of me, I can't see why people find it even interesting to discuss this. It's a lot of money, but that doesn't make it expensive. Personally, I'd be more willing to dish out a hundred dollars if the box was complete - when it plainly isn't. Future actions, core races and career paths being left out; not to mention how you'll be able to buy cards with new "stances" rendering the core box maneuvers obsolete. So I'm going to avoid it. It's like the 4E expansion line which supplies you all the barbarians, bards, gnomes, alchemy, illusion magic, divine domains, ranger's animal companions you never got when you dished out $90 for the core rule set. See, you can buy these bards, divine domains, etc. at a a 29.95 price tag each - "each" meaning one, not two, not three, and certainly not all of these left out core rules bits.

Mechanically, I'm interested how novice GMs will cope with WFRP 3E's dice pool system. I think it's an improvement over the binary "roll a d20 to see if you hit target number", but an improvement that well overshot its mark. Too many symbols and colours, will make it hard for the DM to really (let alone, quickly) translate a die pool result into narration. What's more, while the resolution system is innovative, the components driving it aren't; just imagine D&D and, instead of skill ranks, you get to roll a bonus die to add to your d20 roll correlating to the number of ranks in the skill (so it's a bit like Earthdawn 1E/2E). That's just clunky. And frankly, I'm interested in whether constantly adjusting the colours in one's die pool is even germane to many roleplaying situations. If your scoundrel doesn't manage to offset a trap, you think his player or his party cares if he just had a bad day (two bane die) or couldn't access his skills effectively? Sometimes going binary is just enough for a RPG. And even when it isn't - why should you have dice decide these things? Sometimes (not always) I treasure this type of narrative freedom (was a failure due to bad luck or lack of effort?) as a GM. So I'd wish they had an inbuilt mechanic which allowed the GM to bypass that clunky multicoloured die-rolling if he wishes to do so (or sees fit to do so); because it looks like the game doesn't give the GM that choice. I'll be curious, as well, if there'll be a table with all possible die roll outcomes, translating them roughly into narrative terms.

And finally, while I'm thrilled there's a mechanic to mirror in-party tension, that mechanic is geared to a party-outlook that the players choose on their first session (the one on the presentation was, for instance, "idealistic adventurers"; the presenter also mentioned "diplomatic entourage", and "outcast scoundrels"). That's a good enough idea which works if you got a constant player base. I don't. My campaigns last years, and player attendance varies, with people dropping out and new ones coming in. Basically, your outcast scoundrels could migrate to a diplomatic entourage after all (or vice versa), and I'd be interested to see how the game mirrors such changes, especially when they are gradual. Because if the game isn't flexible in such cases, it'sbasically a narrative straight jacket I'd rather do without.

The beginning kit comes with enough stuff for 3 players + 1 GM. I'm guessing the player packs will be $20-$25.
 
That includes a rulebooks/setting book for each of them. Basically the Core set is All the GM stuff and combat stuff + 3 player packs. Otherwise, you'll just start writing shit down on paper and index cards and substituting numbered dice for players that don't have player packs.
 
There's a lot of cool mechanic conceits too. For example, when you're wounded you draw a wounded card (to remind that you're wounded). If you're critically wounded you flip the wound card over and your critical effect is printed on the other side of the card. Beats marking a box and rolling on a table yes?
 
If you buy an expansion and it contains new careers, just throw them into the careers deck. Beats Looking through countless source books for the job you want to play.
 
The price isn't too bad when you compare it to other games. For D&D 4e a DM needs to buy the core set for $105. Hopefully his players are nice and also buy the PHB for $35 a piece.
 
So for 4 players you've spent $210. That's with no battlemat (required for D&D 4e), no dice(also required), no minis(not necessarily required, but something to track monsters and PCs on the battlemat), no power cards, etc.

I think the starter kit will be well worth $100.

QuoteBeats marking a box and rolling on a table yes?

Not really.  I like my tables.  And checking that box cost me a few cents for the copy and about 2 secs time, so it's not like it's some onerous burden like, say, $100 a box and the excess setup time from all those random fiddly bits.

At this point I'm not seeing anything concrete that will actually make playing the game better.  The visual aids are nice and I can see some value in them, but I can make up career cards for the current game (which I actually like for that idea).  The wound cards are nice, but again they could be made for the current rules.  The new wound mechanics where you can take modified injuries at any point in the battle is a good idea.  The stance system - feels really gimmicky to me.  But beyond that I haven't seen anything yet system wise that is going to give me $100 worth of new game feel.

It's not even the $100 tag that is keeping me leery of jumping on board it's that from what they've been releasing this game seems very niche play based.  Dwarf's from a specific place, Reikland Humans etc...  They seem to be narrowing the scope significantly.  That itself doesn't diminish what you can do with a story.  But it does make the potential for them to run rampant with all these minor expansions and that would drive me nuts.

Quote from: jadrax;324720And for fucks sake learn to insult someone properly rather than coming across like a low rent Bevis and Butthead.

Fuckwad.

I am not anonymous, it's pretty easy to find out who I am, where I live and practically any other detail about me. Please feel free to fail again.

Quote from: jadrax;324720The one thing its not smart to copy from D&D its its fucking prices until you have copied its sales numbers. Which is why no other RPG does.

But that's the opposite of a premium product. Premium product = high price but low sales volume. People are paying a premium to get something beyond a standard product in the market, and relatively few people are willing to do that.

D&D has both a high price and high sales volume, by your argument. So how is D&D a premium RPG again?

Quote from: jadrax;325764I am not anonymous, it's pretty easy to find out who I am, where I live and practically any other detail about me. Please feel free to fail again.

My apologies, I don't generally Google those who insult me on the internet. It's not worth my time.

But if you're not a fuckwad, why are you acting like one? That is:

Me: "Something you disagree with."

You: "You're a cunt."

Quote from: Fifth Element;325765D&D has both a high price and high sales volume, by your argument. So how is D&D a premium RPG again?

Since when as it has high sales? It has very low sales, it just has higher sales than any other RPG.

It is a premium product because as a product, it is high priced and has low numbers published.

And this is still you continuing to pull your pud over terminology rather than making a coherent argument as to why $100 is in any way not expensive for an RPG.

Quote from: Fifth Element;325768Me: "Something you disagree with."

You: "You're a cunt."

No, I think you are a cunt for gong around telling people what you think they do and do not understand.