Jay was quite lear in the videos that an Hourglass meant it, that while you were Cautious in your actions, it took longer, and as a result, changed things... for example... you reached the window using your sneak skill, but were too long doing so.. and so missed over hearing anything useful...

I would imagine that effect is on the 'Sneak' Action card.... "You suceed, but as a result, you are too late for it to be useful"

Obviously, as an RPG, 'Sneak' might be used in a number of situations, and a generic answer may not be applicable to all situations, and that may be where the GM comes in (as we are familiar) to decide exactly how that time delay affects the game....

I think in order to answer some of these questions, we need to see some example cards, and some basic mechanics. Given that is is a random rol on a die, I would imagine it is NOT like the Delay Action from 2nd Ed... and more a semi detrimental one.... simply saying "it takes longer" is no use when applying to Sneak... Melee Attack... Ranged Attack, etc etc.. as the effects of a dely in any of those, PLUS the context and situation in which the action is being peformed, will vary hugely.



I think that Dagobah Dave posted this to the FFG forums.

It's 'trust the game designer, not the GM,' game design at it's very best. Where did that come from? :cool:

Quote from: jadrax;323271The contect was set by Bradford C. Walker when he brought up the term "It is meant to be something of a geek status symbol, in the same way that high end cars are, as shown by the premium price tag and presentation."

I can't imagine how you equate high-end cars to D&D. D&D is the "standard" in the world of RPGs. It's not a status symbol.

Quote from: jadrax;323271I think you will find that it is you who is the cock-stroking twat getting off on playing word games. D&D is a fucking expensive system that relies on its its geek-cred to sell.

It's not only "premium" items that rely on brand recognition to sell. Premium items rely on their brand recognition as premium items to sell. I dispute your claim that D&D is considered a "premium" item by its customers. Fuckwad.

Quote from: Fifth Element;323465I can't imagine how you equate high-end cars to D&D. D&D is the "standard" in the world of RPGs. It's not a status symbol.

It's not only "premium" items that rely on brand recognition to sell. Premium items rely on their brand recognition as premium items to sell. I dispute your claim that D&D is considered a "premium" item by its customers. Fuckwad.

There you go again. You cant fucking argue on the facts so you instantly leap to some shit where you say I said what you want me too, and then say its wrong. Your even putting words in double quotes like you are some fucking reject from the 80s.

Stop playing wank-ass games with terminology and a join the actual conversation about D&D/WFRP being expensive.

I think some people are overlooking that $100 is the total outlay required of a whole group. Unless WFRP 3E is all about player system mastery, the players won't need to buy the game.

It's expensive. But not out of line with other big-box Fantasy Flight games that the buyers expect to get a lot of replay value out of. Lots of folks buy $70 boardgames and only play them twice.

Quote from: Haffrung;323469I think some people are overlooking that $100 is the total outlay required of a whole group.

That depends on how limited it is.

In 4e, to play d&d and get the classic D&D experience you would expect, you need both PHB. As half the Iconic Careers and Races have been moved to the second book. WFRP3 seems to have done the same by moving core elements, like the Rat-catcher (voted among the top 3 most iconic careers) and the Halfling to other box-sets.

So you have the problem that the game has a high initial price point to try it, then you have to get special dice each*, then a couple of other boxed sets that may well be expensive.

It is probably overall slightly cheaper than D&D, but WFRP doesn't compete against D&D, it competes against things like Savage Worlds. How much of a barrier to sales that will be is uncertain, there was a vocal minority that despised WFRP2 for being a rip-off, but I think they mainly overlap with people that would not be buying WFRP3 anyway. It's the Impulse buyers that have not heard of WFRP and so are not willing to blow $100 on a whim that I think it will most effect.




*Some groups are willing to share dice, but many are not.

Quote from: Haffrung;323469I think some people are overlooking that $100 is the total outlay required of a whole group. Unless WFRP 3E is all about player system mastery, the players won't need to buy the game.

It's expensive. But not out of line with other big-box Fantasy Flight games that the buyers expect to get a lot of replay value out of. Lots of folks buy $70 boardgames and only play them twice.

that's true of every rpg i've ever played though.

Quote from: jadrax;323468There you go again. You cant fucking argue on the facts so you instantly leap to some shit where you say I said what you want me too, and then say its wrong.

The only fact I see here is:

1. D&D is the market standard for RPGs.

Do you dispute this fact? If not I don't see how you can argue that D&D is a premium item in its market, akin to a high-end car.

Quote from: jadrax;323468Stop playing wank-ass games with terminology and a join the actual conversation about D&D/WFRP being expensive.

Conversations use terminology, fuckwad, so if you're using a term incorrectly you're not helping the conversation.

Quote from: Fifth Element;323475The only fact I see here is:

1. D&D is the market standard for RPGs.

Do you dispute this fact? If not I don't see how you can argue that D&D is a premium item in its market, akin to a high-end car.

Just because something is industry standard does not stop it being the most expensive item on the market. You seem to be in some weird world where RPGs have a lot in common with cars, rather than having fuck all in common with cars.

No-one but you gives a shit about cars, Argue your fucking point.

QuoteConversations use terminology, fuckwad, so if you're using a term incorrectly you're not helping the conversation.

Go back to the original post you tried to redefine and try and work out what the context was. You are not having a conversation, you are masturbating by arguing against points that you dreamt up in the first place.

Quote from: Fifth Element;3234751. D&D is the market standard for RPGs.

Btw, how the fuck is this in any way a fact? D&D is utterly exceptional in practically every way with regards to sales. It could only be standard if every game sold the same number of books as D&D.

Hi kids!

Today were gonna play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay! Cheers!

I've got some pens and a huge starter box so we got all we need to play. Well, me and 3 others that is, Jimmy you have to share Thomas box... and his skills... and I prefer if you don't talk actually.

Well kids, fist you gonna pull a card and see what race you are... you can be human, dwarf, elf or elf.

What? Halfling? Nooo... I said Elf... or elf. Elves are cool you'll see! Hopefully you'll be able to play Darkelf and Dragon(ogre)born when the next expansion comes out, but for the moment you have to settle with elf or elf... and perhaps human if you're dull. Now pull a card! Ahh... elf.

And now you pull a card for your name! Drizztolas! Sounds cool!

Then we pull a profession! Oh sweet, you're a Warlord (of Morr)! Well, its almost as a warrior but you shout more... and like death... and are a bit more cool...

Well this ain't a board game... but the game comes with the Arkham horror pawns with elves on them. So if you imagine that you stand in a 5x5 room and have you imaginary pawns at the imaginary door! Eh... well not there, a little more to the left. Ah, perfect!

Well Thomas, do you have the actions card for listening at the door? Rulebook? Nah, well keep all the rules by cards nowadays! It makes rulebooks unnecessary! What? Well we got 4 of them in the box, instead of one hardback, but they're primarily a reference text explaining the cards and cool tokens you'll get in the game. Well, get though your playing deck and see if you can find the card for listening at doors. Eh... Birds of Paradise? Oh... must got in the deck by mistake. Sigh... tell me when you're ready.

Ah, there it is! Now you can decide if you listen to the door carefully or if you got an aggressive stance when you listen to the door! What? How? Well I suppose that you roar a bit and look really angry if you're trying to listen to the door in an aggressive stance... but you roll more happy happy shiny blue dice if you do! And you can actually get another happy happy blue dice if we got the group marked as happy happy och the group character sheet! What do the group sheet say? Manic depressive? Bugger... is that Jimmy messing around now again?

Your card says you can roll four happy happy blue dice for you listening attempt. Eh... numbers? No we don't do that, it feels sooo 90:s. The listening dice is a blue d8 with an ear icon on four of the sides. What? Flip a coin?!!! Nah, this is something completely different! What? Roll 4+ on a d6?? Sigh, what do you get this silly ideas from? You don't get an unparalleled story-telling option from ordinary dice mind you! Now roll the happy happy blue dice! Fine, two ear tokens! That means you hear (flip a GM card) aha 1 critter dice orcs in there! The critter dice is a red dice with 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 orcy dots on them! Not an ordinary dice, its a red critter dice mind you!

The orcs are annoyed by your aggressive listening so the break though the imaginary door and attack! ROAAAAR! Now I roll the happy orcy green violence dice! (looking through the dice bag) Bugger... somewhere... blast missed it! Sigh... We have to try to survive this fight with the yellow violence dice instead. OK... the orcs attack you.... well... in some aggressive stance I suppose. And their group morale is set to... pretty pissed. That makes 5 violence dice! (roll roll)

Soo... I can see at least 2 concussion icons, one nutcracker and one insulted ego, so this fight didn't go that well for you. You have to discard one life card from you deck! No, that's a social encounter card.... nope that's the shoplifting card... and that's another freakin Bird of Paradise! You don't got any life cards left?! oh you're dead then I suppose... hehe bugger!

Don't be sad, you can always pull another card to do another character!

Pasted from the FFG forums.

It hurts!

Can you provide a link to where you found that OHT?

RPGPundit

Quote from: jadrax;323480You are not having a conversation, you are masturbating by arguing against points that you dreamt up in the first place.

You might not have made the point I'm arguing against, fuckwad, but that doesn't mean it wasn't made.

Quote from: jadrax;323482Btw, how the fuck is this in any way a fact? D&D is utterly exceptional in practically every way with regards to sales. It could only be standard if every game sold the same number of books as D&D.

You misunderstand what I mean by standard, apparently. It's standard in that it's the market leader. It's by far the most recognizable RPG.

Quote from: One Horse Town;324619Pasted from the FFG forums.

It hurts!

That's clearly not actual play, but I wonder if it's based on the actual rules of the game, or whether it's some guy's cynical impression based on some press releases?

Quote from: Fifth Element;324702That's clearly not actual play, but I wonder if it's based on the actual rules of the game, or whether it's some guy's cynical impression based on some press releases?

Mostly cynical impressions with a touch of hints at the rules.