When I say pseudo-France I mean a part of a campaign setting that is clearly and directly trying to evoke France without actually being France.
Which ones have left a good and bad impressions on you? Why?
Paul Kidd's Lace & Steel RPG from way back had something of that feel. TSR liked it enough they had him do a novel based on it. Mus of Kerbridge.
Furry Pirates did France well because it was aside from the animal people, and a little magic, regular earth of the pirates era. France and Spain get a fair amount of mention as well as historical figures if I recall correctly.
There is at least one more. But I cannot pin it down now. Been ages.
The 7th Sea France analog was a pretty mixed bag initially. And then they ran a massive meta-plot through it, which I don't think helped.
I can only wonder about what would differentiate pseudo-France from pseudo-England and pseudo-Germany except the names, as far as a fantasy RPG campaign setting goes... I mean: the city would be called Meudon instead of Murdoch or München, but then there would be knights, wizards, a king, some castles, a few trolls and such.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;850335When I say pseudo-France I mean a part of a campaign setting that is clearly and directly trying to evoke France without actually being France.
Other than 7th Sea, I don't recall any game with a pseudo. Oh, I guess WHFRP had a pseudo France. I don't know enough about it to comment specifically.
But generally I don't see much point in ersatz Frances, Englands, Germanys (or Germanieses), etc. I'd rather just use the real thing* like Flashing Blades does.
The old En Garde game had a pseudo country, though it wasn't France. It was more of a mash up of France and England and mixed ancien offices with Revolutionary offices like the Commissioner of Public Safety. (That office was kind of cool since it came with the power to trump up charges to toss another PC in prison a la Edmund Dantes.)
Quote from: Turanil;850376I can only wonder about what would differentiate pseudo-France from pseudo-England and pseudo-Germany except the names, as far as a fantasy RPG campaign setting goes... I mean: the city would be called Meudon instead of Murdoch or München, but then there would be knights, wizards, a king, some castles, a few trolls and such.
The French wax their mustaches, the English say goddamn a lot and eat roast beef, and the Germans are always drinking beer.
* My bias should be pretty obvious since I am running Honor+Intrigue in a 1620s France that is mostly historical.
Does one set in the era of Vercingetorix count?
Quote from: Omega;850406Does one set in the era of Vercingetorix count?
Yes.
Does anyone have any experience with either of these two products?
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/19836/Folkloric--Gallia-Land-of-Chivalry-and-Intrigue?it=1
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/94285/Kingdoms-of-Legend-Knights-of-France
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;850335Which ones have left a good and bad impressions on you? Why?
The one that springs to mind is Mystara's New Averoigne; one of the Principalties of Glantri, ruled by a family of scheming, immortal wizards originally from a fantasy Earth, the D'Ambrevilles of Castle Amber (from the homonymous X2 module).
And of course, Bretonnia, which I play with the nobility living like they're in
La Morte d'Arthur and the peasants like exteas in
Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Plus assorted French stereotypes. But that's a Britain pastiche as much as a French one.
Quote from: Turanil;850376I can only wonder about what would differentiate pseudo-France from pseudo-England and pseudo-Germany except the names, as far as a fantasy RPG campaign setting goes... I mean: the city would be called Meudon instead of Murdoch or München, but then there would be knights, wizards, a king, some castles, a few trolls and such.
I dunno. Look at CAS's Averoigne stories. They are set in a fictional French province and feel quite different than a fantasy England. It's more romantic/poetic, I'd say.
And then you have the Matter of France, basically the French counterpart to King Arthur and company, only involving Charlemagne and his Paladins. That's focused a lot more on fighting Saracens (since they invaded France) and somewhat more magical.
Very little English speaking fantasy has been inspired by it, pretty much only l. Sprague de Camp's The Castle of Iron (which is where the D&D Simulacrum spell comes from)
Quote from: Bren;850399Other than 7th Sea, I don't recall any game with a pseudo. Oh, I guess WHFRP had a pseudo France. I don't know enough about it to comment specifically.
There was a suppplemented for it, 'Knights of the Grail', sadly out of print.
Warhammer Roleplay's Bretonnia was awesome, mixing early hundred years war France with oppressive nobles a la the ancien regime. They also had some Arthurian influences, the knights specifically pray to the Lady of the Lake and worship the code of chivalric ideals as led down by their founder Gielles le Breton.
And there were undead, fey creatures, orcs and beats thrown in. And some cool peasant revolutionaries mixing Les Misérables with Robin Hood and his merry men.
One of the best touches; a female character could always conceal herself as a man and automatically succeed
because the idea was so unthinkable to the misogynist society that no one would ever even consider the possibility she wasn't male :D
They also had some good background on social issues, tons of setting material etc. Great book overall.
Pretty sure I own 'Gallia', but I am not in a position to check right now, I don't think I have used it much.
It does remind me that Pathfinder has a revolutionary french analog, Galt.
There's also Val du Loup for BRP. About a small area in the Ardennes forest. One of Chaosium's 'monograph' series. It's more historical than fantastic.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;850407Does anyone have any experience with either of these two products?
I know nothing about either, but Folkloric - Gallia, Land of Chivalry and Intrigue sounds like it places a higher priority on including French myth and folklore, which looks more interesting to me.
Quote from: Battle Mad Ronin;850436One of the best touches; a female character could always conceal herself as a man and automatically succeed because the idea was so unthinkable to the misogynist society that no one would ever even consider the possibility she wasn't male :D
That's cute. A sort of reversal of the in-joke in Shakespearean comedy where the women always succeed in dressing as men because the actors playing the women are male.
Well, there's Dark Albion's Frogland...
Another one is Triple Ace Games' "All For One: Regime Diabolique" setting.
Quote from: BigWeather;850842Another one is Triple Ace Games' "All For One: Regime Diabolique" setting.
But that's actually France, not pseudo-France, isn't it?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;850909But that's actually France, not pseudo-France, isn't it?
Ah, yes -- I was thinking the introduction of devils, etc. would qualify but yeah, it's France with a twist, not a stand-in for France.
There's also the Val-du-Loup module for BRP. It is set in the Ardennes forests, so not necessarily France per se, but definitely a French-speaking area. I took a look at it, and it is a fairly realistic medieval setting, with a decent amount of fantasy. Never played it tough.
Quote from: Trond;851038There's also the Val-du-Loup module for BRP. It is set in the Ardennes forests, so not necessarily France per se, but definitely a French-speaking area. I took a look at it, and it is a fairly realistic medieval setting, with a decent amount of fantasy. Never played it tough.
Hmmmm...that sounds oddly familiar. ;)
There's a local game over/up here called Mhar, which pretty much has several pseudo countries. Not sure if the author released the France analog, yet.
Bretonnia in the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (http://grimandperilous.com) universe is very well done. It is a Dark Age-inspired, swamp-ridden bastion of feudalism ridden with plague whose people worship a local deity called the Lady of the Lake. Think Camelot, but with a grim & perilous twist.
Ars Magica has a pair of supplements that cover portions of what is France today. I haven't looked at them closely, but some of that game's other books are ok. Mythic Europe is very much pseudo-historical as far as I'm concerned.
Let's see,
Faith & Flame: The Provençal Tribunal [Toulouse, Gascony, Arelat (A little bit of Iberia too)]
The Lion and the Lily [Brittany, Normandy, Anjou, Aquitaine, Paris, Flanders, Picardy, Champagne, Burgundy]
Ars Magica stuff: described campaigns & adventures = not so good, setting descriptions = pretty good and easy to use with another game. Oh yes, only get the things from Lions Rampant or Atlas. You'll avoid most of the bad that way.
It was interesting to read En Garde! get a mention, since I was just setting something up new for that this week.
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;851111Bretonnia in the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (http://grimandperilous.com) universe is very well done. It is a Dark Age-inspired, swamp-ridden bastion of feudalism ridden with plague whose people worship a local deity called the Lady of the Lake. Think Camelot, but with a grim & perilous twist.
Does your game have a pseudo-France since it is emulating WFR?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;851259Does your game have a pseudo-France since it is emulating WFR?
For now, the book is entirely settings agnostic, treated how early editions of D&D were. No implied setting within, but the Gamemaster's section will include several analogues. Clark Ashton Smith's
Averoigne may be included, providing that the rights are open.
Quote from: Kuroth;851228It was interesting to read En Garde! get a mention, since I was just setting something up new for that this week.
Don't be a tease. Tell us more.
My burgeoning En Garde! campaign? I'm beginning one in the Dutch Republic in 1629, with Frederik Hendrik, Prince of Orange and those exploits leading into the height of the Republic's Golden Age. What a great game in that booklet. It is just detailed enough, without so deeply specific that would bar its use for somewhere other than France. Its going to be a good break from fantasy and science fiction. It also has a number of different elements and focus than the norm. Players had a good reaction so far. Hopefully there won't be too much poltroonery by the characters. Got to encourage the players to read some of those Harry Flashman books!
You made a fun point about the Commissioner of Public Safety Bren. A lot of creative bits in the rules, beside good solid game design. It is a rarely sung gem, in my view.
Quote from: Kuroth;851500My burgeoning En Garde! campaign? I'm beginning one in the Dutch Republic in 1629, with Frederik Hendrik, Prince of Orange and those exploits leading into the height of the Republic's Golden Age. What a great game in that booklet. It is just detailed enough, without so deeply specific that would bar its use for somewhere other than France. Its going to be a good break from fantasy and science fiction. It also has a number of different elements and focus than the norm. Players had a good reaction so far. Hopefully there won't be too much poltroonery by the characters. Got to encourage the players to read some of those Harry Flashman books!
Interesting. I'm not sure how easy it would be to adapt the En Garde social climbing to the Dutch Republic.
I've never read the Flashman books.
Easy. Makes more sense even. Upward mobility and all come into play among non-nobles much more.