I am a universal system guy myself but some folks talk about seriously focused games. By this I mean a situation where:

1. The system reinforces the setting. More than "It has some specialized skills" but the core mechanics are some how arranged to not support play in other genres.

2. The scope of the setting is such to make it focused in one area. So, you play some rabid western squirrels out to brand Christianity on any who oppose you and all the material supports that, and only that.

Now, as way of disclosure, I do not believe in the micro-game. I believe any system that supports task resolution may be adapted to another genre. You may not want the elements of that system or the way it reproduces the task resolution but others might. For example, I have never, remotely, enjoyed d20/dnd in sci-fi. It just does not work for me. Does that mean it does not work for sci-fi? Absolutely not, just not for me.

So, can anyone give me hardcore examples of micro-game mechanics that restrict you to the genre of the setting? i.e. could I play space pirates with ditv?

Thanks,
Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltSo, can anyone give me hardcore examples of micro-game mechanics that restrict you to the genre of the setting? i.e. could I play space pirates with ditv?

You can definitely play space pirates with Dogs in the Vineyard, and alternate setting games seem pretty common.  

For hard-core examples...  There are a few games that spring to mind: Toon and FVLMINATA, say.  So, you could technically use the faux Roman tali and the ladder of roll results for some other genre, but it would feel really weird.  Toon just produces results that are hard to justify in other genres.

Quote from: jhkimYou can definitely play space pirates with Dogs in the Vineyard, and alternate setting games seem pretty common.  

For hard-core examples...  There are a few games that spring to mind: Toon and FVLMINATA, say.  So, you could technically use the faux Roman tali and the ladder of roll results for some other genre, but it would feel really weird.  Toon just produces results that are hard to justify in other genres.

You could only play space pirates that enter various communities, and then pass judgement on the inhabitants and then kill them as an illustration of morality.

But sure. it could be space pirates. Or ninjas.

I think I prefer a game with a rules system aimed at supporting the genre of the game. This is a bit different from the setting--because the setting could be varied among several variations but still be the same genre. While changing the genre may not work at all within the rules.

For example: I've seen both Exalted and Dog's In the Vineyard suggested for numerous different settings--but they create a genre that is specific to themselves, so to D&D--the genre is a very specific style of play, response of mechanics, and behavior and capabilities of characters.  


For example, I wouldn't use Exalted for a serious espionage game--but it might work as a Hong Kong Action Movie Espionage influenced game.

While I could use Exalted for any over the top influenced fantasy--from Dragonball Z to Clone Wars TAS/Samurai Jack action fantasy. Not PERFECT, but a far closer fit than it be to serious espionage.

Quote from: HinterWeltSo, can anyone give me hardcore examples of micro-game mechanics that restrict you to the genre of the setting? i.e. could I play space pirates with ditv?

Space pirates with DitV?  I'm not so sure.  But you could do "The Seven Samurai" or "Yojimbo" with little tweaking.  And, yes, Mr. Maw, it would involve traveling from one village to the next, immersing yourselves in the local problems, then sorting them out by wit or sword.

Now, this brings me to The Mountain Witch, which is most certainly a RPG, but its scope of play is more akin to a boardgame.  The mechanics are focused very specifically on playing out this single scenario as presented, and deal with dark secrets and trust that each player must grapple with to win the game.  So, beyond restricting you to the setting, the setting itself is limited to this mission in this specific locale.  Sure, with some concerted effort, you could come up with new scenarios, but that's not really what the game is made to do.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSpace pirates with DitV?

Sure - how far are you willing to go to get what you want? Make a nice bankrobber game - if someone you are robbing doesn't have over the cash do you rough them up or shoot them and ask the next person in line or bug out and try again. And that helps determine if the cops come in with harsh language or assault rifles and flack jackets.

That aside you can just treat it as a risk/reward thing. Are you willing to risk more to perform this action. Perfectly servicable mechanic that.

Quote from: Erik BoielleSure - how far are you willing to go to get what you want? Make a nice bankrobber game...

Okay, and I hope that this isn't totally derailing this thread, but how do you suppose the mechanics of DitV could handle a Guy-Ritchie-like scenario?  I mean like "Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels" or "Snatch" and the like.  A lot of the tension in those films, macabre humor aside, revolved around how hard a man you really are, especially when faced with someone who is obviously much harder still.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaA lot of the tension in those films, macabre humor aside, revolved around how hard a man you really are, especially when faced with someone who is obviously much harder still.

*continues potential de-rail*

This is something that's been on my mind recently, so I'm intrigued to see any responses. I've been toying with a 'cool' or 'bottle' mechanism, but haven't come to any conclusions yet.

- Q

Ah well, in that case there might be a lot of giving.

'I escalate to violence! - I shove him!'

'Bullet Tooth Tony (Vinnie Jones) grins at you and pulls out his desert eagle (he has 200 D12 in 'Can kick your ass)'

'I give! I give!!!!!!!!!'

The game revolves around finding situations where your opponents cannot escalate - you must ambush them while they are taking tea with their Mum, or in front of a girlfriend they want to impress or at a convention of the Metropolitan Police and there ask them for the money they owe you.

But seriously - just look at it mechanically - you are just accepting more risk in order to get more dice. Work for anything that will.

(With that said, I rate DitV. And not just for the guns. What I think is REALLY IMPORTANT is that its a great premise - playing Dogs who wonder from town to town solving problems in the west that never quite was is GENIUS! Far better than Deadlands frex, that doesn't tell you what players do. Its a game. Deadlands is a setting you could stick a game of DitV in.)

Games with lifepaths seem particularly difficult to convert to other settings - Fading Suns, Burning Empires and WFRP all seem like they'd be a big hassle to convert.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineGames with lifepaths seem particularly difficult to convert to other settings - Fading Suns, Burning Empires and WFRP all seem like they'd be a big hassle to convert.

I reckon its the same with D20 - you wanna play something in D20 its MUCH easier to get a book that already has classes and whatnot designed for you than to make them up yourself (I remember trying to do a D20 converstion for I-war many years ago, and deciding it was all to much hassle).

Thats more campaign design than system though.

Quote from: HinterWeltSo, can anyone give me hardcore examples of micro-game mechanics that restrict you to the genre of the setting?

Everway. That game was so dependent on the cards whose imagery just did not support Arthurian fantasy or Tolkien or Robin Hood or even standard D&D-like fantasy.
Of course, one could use a different set of trading cards, but what would widen the usability of Everway only to those settings/genres/Hollywood franchises that have trading cards. (Baseball, anyone?) While at the same time limiting the game to those images depicted on the cards. (That was one of the drawbacks of the original Everway cards. The imagery was meant to show a world full of exotic possibilities, but then, many Everway groups had a character like "Tiger-Man" and "Bird-Man" because those two cards were so prominently featured in the ads of the game...)

Did someone use Magic cards for playing Everway in Dominia/Dominaria?

Psychosis by Chameleon Ecclectic. That was a micro-game in the truest sense of the word - you could only play it once.
Spoiler: The game took place on a starship that was out of control. The characters were awakened from their cryostasis chambers (or whatever). They were heavily disoriented, so much that they envisioned themselves in completely different surroundings (read: other time periods or genres). They played out scenes that had little or no continuity. When they fought the Cardinal's men in Musketeer-like scene, in reality they fought (I don't remember) mutants or robots.
For each scene they "won", their perceptions became "more realistic". The goal was to reclaim the ship.
I found it unplayable.

(I had had enough problems with DL10 Dragons of Dreams)

Quote from: Abyssal MawYou could only play space pirates that enter various communities, and then pass judgement on the inhabitants and then kill them as an illustration of morality.

But sure. it could be space pirates. Or ninjas.

Or Jedi.

In fact, Star Wars DitV could work very well. You could set it at the height of the Republic, where the Jedi are the sort of roving Troubleshooters that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan seem to be in The Phantom Menace.

I remember seeing someone somewhere suggest a mechanic for the Dark Side in Star Wars DitV: there's a D12 in the middle of the table, which is the Dark Side dice. It's big and shiny - bigger and shinier than any of the other dice you use in DitV (usually ranges from 1D4 and 1D10). Any time you like, you can just reach over and roll the Dark Side dice as part of your pool...

Well, duh, Jedis... But what's the DitV raison d'etre for tramp freighter scoundrels visiting cantinas and shooting random aliens?

Quote from: PseudoephedrineGames with lifepaths seem particularly difficult to convert to other settings - Fading Suns, Burning Empires and WFRP all seem like they'd be a big hassle to convert.

My counterpoint would be Traveller.  Which is really very generic in it's core, and could easily be dropped into whatever SF or even modern with some tweaking.