So my cat got in the way of my latest video; but the overall point is still clear (and slightly cuter, thanks to the cat): there's no such thing as a real "D&D Community". There's a D&D Hobby, but the notion of a "Community" is a combination of a marketing tactic by Hasbro, and a maneuver by SJWs to try to infiltrate and impose control over the hobby.
[video=youtube_share;Tg1TeQ0pBLM]https://youtu.be/Tg1TeQ0pBLM[/youtube]
Check it out! And if you like it, and want more of these sort of videos, be sure to support Inappropriate Characters on patreon (https://www.patreon.com/InappropriateCharacters)!
NOTE: This thread is STRICTLY for discussions of things going in gaming and the gaming hobby. Trying to move beyond that to off-topic subjects WILL generate moderation.
I really doubt that Hasbro is using the term "community" as anything but a buzzword that they think people will like.
Though - likely some people are taking it and running with it. But - there are always people who take stuff out of context.
The group of 'SJW's that you have in your cross hairs are also a fictional construction.
You need to include the cat in all of your videos!
You could always make it look like it is actually the cat narrating the video....
The final shitlord of the internet was always a cat. Who knew?
Quote from: Larsdangly;1042850The group of 'SJW's that you have in your cross hairs are also a fictional construction.
Ironic since it's SJW's that manufactured that label around their own ideology.
Trying to corral all the cats under the banner of "D&D Community" is essentially the same thing. Pundit it merely pointing out the reasons of why they're doing it, it's to co-opt the largest RPG brand in the industry in order to cut loose the "undesirables" that don't want to drink the SJW Kool-Aid. Pretty standard operating procedure for authoritarians.
Wow, these videos got old really fast. I guess thanks for standing strong in this quixotic effort, but I sure hope the content will move on from the tired SJW trope. How about doing a video review on occasion?
Quote from: jeff37923;1042855You need to include the cat in all of your videos!
You could always make it look like it is actually the cat narrating the video....
THAT...would be awesome.
Pundit, the cat adds movement and visual interest. The cat is your cowbell! Moar catbell!
Quote from: DeadUematsu;1042858The final shitlord of the internet was always a cat. Who knew?
Everyone with a cat?
We were calling it a community long long before WOTC and Hasborg. Odds are fairly good that what it once meant and what its now being retooled to mean are not exactly the same thing anymore...
What is an "SJW"? I'm sure I should know this....
Quote from: finarvyn;1042909What is an "SJW"? I'm sure I should know this....
A Social Justice Warrior.
Quote from: tenbones;1042863Trying to corral all the cats under the banner of "D&D Community" is essentially the same thing. Pundit it merely pointing out the reasons of why they're doing it, it's to co-opt the largest RPG brand in the industry in order to cut loose the "undesirables" that don't want to drink the SJW Kool-Aid. Pretty standard operating procedure for authoritarians.
The problem is not a particular ideology but rather domination of a single brand as the face of the hobby and industry. The D&D Brand is subject to the whims of its owners whatever they may be. But unlike the 90s, we can ignore it in a far more productive manner that keeps the hobby going.
We are not dependent on brand products (like the old Dragon Magazine) to keep in contact with one another and find gamers. We can legally use much of the IP of the game that underlies the D&D brand. Yes it will be disappointing to hobbyist that fans of closely held IP like Forgotten Realms as they don't have an alternative. These days hobbyists are not beholden to the whims of whoever owns D&D. A point driven home by Paizo and the response to 4th edition.
Keep in mind that D&D is dominant again because Wizards earned their position from competing with Paizo. Take a wrong turn again (aka 4th edition) then Paizo or somebody else will knock them off their perch. What 4th edition, Pathfinder, 5th edition showed that nobody safe as number 1 in the industry.
I can't do anything about what goes behind the decisions of Wizards and Hasbro. If they align with my interests, then I will help. If they don't then I will go off and do my own thing. If Wizards goes knee deep into a particular ideology that spread throughout all their offering the industry and hobby can trundle along without them.
It not enough to control something if you unable to leverage it.
Quote from: DeadUematsu;1042858The final shitlord of the internet was always a cat. Who knew?
I live with a 16 year old black shitlord, so it's no surprise.
The cat definitely enlivened the video.
It was not bad, but I'd suggest keeping it to 10-12 minutes for this kind of stuff.
My suggestions:
1. Shorter videos would be better. Make notes in point form and discuss them briefly and concisely.
2. Turn your phone sideways. Landscape>Portrait.
3. More cat. Make the cat your mascot. More cat.
EDIT: Here's my 16 year old Shitlord (https://www.instagram.com/p/BgHhW8UBD2-/?taken-by=krimsongray).
More cats is always a good thing.
I do agree with the issue being more of D&D being the overpoweringly dominate brand of the industry. People inside the hobby know plenty about D&D's competitors and alternatives, but to people outside the hobby, it's the Kleenex problem. It doesn't matter what system you're playing, they're all D&D. Especially difficult to deal with, as there isn't really a useful widespread name for the hobby in general, beyond semi-accurate mouthful of "tabletop RPGs". RPG and TRPG are shared with video games (which dominate the social perception), and role playing with kinky sex. D&D is easy to say, easy to remember, and has already penetrated the public consciousness. Whenever I try to introduce someone to the hobby (notice how we always tend call it, "the hobby"?), I inevitably end up saying something along the lines of "Yes, like D&D, but it's not quite the same thing." And then they call what we're doing playing D&D, because that's the only way they know how to categorize it.
:rolleyes:
I've always called all of these games D+D in casual conversation. As in, 'what do you want to do with our D+D game this weekend? Hmmm...how about we pick up our Runequest party that was last left drunk in a gutter in Pavis?'
Quote from: Larsdangly;1042987I've always called all of these games D+D in casual conversation. As in, 'what do you want to do with our D+D game this weekend? Hmmm...how about we pick up our Runequest party that was last left drunk in a gutter in Pavis?'
Well yeah because if you say RPG, people think video games. :D
"D&D 'community' is marketing ploy by Hasbro."
In further news, water wet, sky blue.
Yeah I took some mild offense to this week's Down with D&D podcast because of an inclusiveness message they included. Essentially it was that people were getting upset at all the jocks and actors on the D&D Stream of Many Eyes live games where rules were often discarded or ignored and that for older gamers there was a history of these sorts of people bullying the TTRPG guys. DwDD essentially said that we have to suck it up and learn to live with these types because that is good for the game and helps grow the hobby. A minute or two later they started talking about how them might start doing live play streams.
My immediate gut response was: "Of course you'd say that you're trying to make money off the hobby!" Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that but to brush aside what I thought was a legitimate concern (non-gamers playing not-D&D claiming to be D&D players) seemed misleading. It's like cereal companies purchasing "studies" that show eggs will kill you.
Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1042884Wow, these videos got old really fast. I guess thanks for standing strong in this quixotic effort, but I sure hope the content will move on from the tired SJW trope. How about doing a video review on occasion?
In the grim darkness of our times there is only ideological war!
Quote from: TJS;1043047In the grim darkness of our times there is only ideological war!
Awesome!!
I want that T-shirt!
Quote from: estar;1042914The problem is not a particular ideology but rather domination of a single brand as the face of the hobby and industry. The D&D Brand is subject to the whims of its owners whatever they may be. But unlike the 90s, we can ignore it in a far more productive manner that keeps the hobby going.
I draw no distinction between what you said vs. what I said. In the good ol'days D&D was still the sky under which the kingdom of RPG's existed. Today, sure we have more options. But that also ignores all non-D&D games pull from the same general pool. And now there are more D&D players than ever, and that spills over to our shores where D&D isn't the primary game. I see it in my own interactions with new players at my table. They walk in with conceits that come from this ideology that while WotC might not be the primary cause, they certainly shill for it in their own manner.
To the degree that is affects me? Very little. But as I've said elsewhere in other threads - it has become detritus that has washed upon my shore... and I find it unnecessary and unwelcome.
Quote from: estar;1042914We are not dependent on brand products (like the old Dragon Magazine) to keep in contact with one another and find gamers. We can legally use much of the IP of the game that underlies the D&D brand. Yes it will be disappointing to hobbyist that fans of closely held IP like Forgotten Realms as they don't have an alternative. These days hobbyists are not beholden to the whims of whoever owns D&D. A point driven home by Paizo and the response to 4th edition.
Stipulated. I don't think *anyone* grousing about the ideological direction of D&D is doing it for anything more than sentimentality more than anything else. But for those of us that do dig in the trenches of design and publishing, the impact via social media, hell even just *posting* in forums specifically like this one is enough to have an impact. Again with D&D being the largest tent in the fairground in this relatively small industry, it doesn't take much spoil and effort if those under that banner wish to. I pay it little heed because while it is irritating - the math will win out on this.
Quote from: estar;1042914Keep in mind that D&D is dominant again because Wizards earned their position from competing with Paizo. Take a wrong turn again (aka 4th edition) then Paizo or somebody else will knock them off their perch. What 4th edition, Pathfinder, 5th edition showed that nobody safe as number 1 in the industry.
I can't do anything about what goes behind the decisions of Wizards and Hasbro. If they align with my interests, then I will help. If they don't then I will go off and do my own thing. If Wizards goes knee deep into a particular ideology that spread throughout all their offering the industry and hobby can trundle along without them.
It not enough to control something if you unable to leverage it.
Yup I was there freelancing with Mearls (for Paizo and Goodman Games) when all of that happened the first time. You clearly realize for a lot of the nerdzerkers in the Edition Wars - where much of that sentimentality was abused in social media - the current turn is like salt in new wounds and old for many. Maybe it's too subtle for a lot of people, but I'd hazard *most* of this forum *wouldn't* even be here if this shift in business practices didn't trickle down to the internet social circles where gamers congregate virtually. We wouldn't likely even be having this conversation. For some of us here - and I don't think it's a knee-jerk reaction, it smacks of a larger ideological push in the culture-war that has infected many things in the world right now... nested right here in our hobby. A small microcosm of stuff obviously happening in larger circles.
And for some - like Pundit - he's choosing to stand his ground on it. Just like many others are doing in the various locations of Geek Country. Yes life will move on. The Math *will* win out. But some people want to hasten that process, and I do understand that.
I'm generally a believer in cats doing their own thing. And by 'believer' I mean that I can't really get my cats to do anything they don't want to.
However, this is the second time my cat has gotten in the way while I was filming a video; she seems to like it. So we'll likely see her again.
Quote from: tenbones;1043052I'd hazard *most* of this forum *wouldn't* even be here if this shift in business practices didn't trickle down to the internet social circles where gamers congregate virtually.
I guess I'd still be posting on EN World if they hadn't taken it from apolitical to Social Justice - and continually doubled down. That upsets me a lot more than RPGnet going from centre left to cultural Maoism.
Relevant video: "Fans of the Brand", by BOOFIRE191, here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Jp6XfPwnY).
Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;1043085Relevant video: "Fans of the Brand", by BOOFIRE191, here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Jp6XfPwnY).
Holy fuck, that was good! Pundit, you need to watch this both for the message and the method in which this guy presents it.
Quote from: S'mon;1043059I guess I'd still be posting on EN World if they hadn't taken it from apolitical to Social Justice - and continually doubled down. That upsets me a lot more than RPGnet going from centre left to cultural Maoism.
I'm just looking for a forum where I can like older editions and dislike newer editions I've played.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1043057I'm generally a believer in cats doing their own thing. And by 'believer' I mean that I can't really get my cats to do anything they don't want to.
However, this is the second time my cat has gotten in the way while I was filming a video; she seems to like it. So we'll likely see her again.
When I'm reading a large book and making notes, I like to lay on the floor, couch, bed, whatever. When I do that, my dog will eventually lay right on the book. I'm doing something interesting/important and he's not involved, so he invites himself to the proceedings. :D
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043092I'm just looking for a forum where I can like older editions and dislike newer editions I've played.
You can do that here. OD&D love is something quite a few posters share. Sure Brady will crawl up your ass and make a spectacle of idiocy, but it's like "5 o'clock Charlie" harmless and entertaining in it's own way.
Criticising 5e, yeah that used to be not worth the trouble, but Tenbones, Spinach and Opa have created some breathing room on that front too.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1043099Criticising 5e, yeah that used to be not worth the trouble, but Tenbones, Spinach and Opa have created some breathing room on that front too.
There's even space for a handful of us to express an appreciation of 4E. Granted, we have to put up with Pundit ... :)
Quote from: CRKrueger;1043098When I'm reading a large book and making notes, I like to lay on the floor, couch, bed, whatever. When I do that, my dog will eventually lay right on the book. I'm doing something interesting/important and he's not involved, so he invites himself to the proceedings. :D
That's why I wait until my kids are asleep before I start recording whatever I'm planning to upload that day.
Doesn't always work though. Thankfully, I has a pause button.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1043099You can do that here. OD&D love is something quite a few posters share. Sure Brady will crawl up your ass and make a spectacle of idiocy, but it's like "5 o'clock Charlie" harmless and entertaining in it's own way.
Criticising 5e, yeah that used to be not worth the trouble, but Tenbones, Spinach and Opa have created some breathing room on that front too.
Yes, all true. It's why I put up with the annoying parts of this forum. The benefits of free speech outweigh the problems.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1043103There's even space for a handful of us to express an appreciation of 4E. Granted, we have to put up with Pundit ... :)
If you like 4E good on ya, as long as you don't tell me I'm wrong for liking OD&D better. (Never played 4E, got ten pages through the "quickstart" rules and gave up)
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043116If you like 4E good on ya, as long as you don't tell me I'm wrong for liking OD&D better. (Never played 4E, got ten pages through the "quickstart" rules and gave up)
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't care for it. I'd be willing to give OD&D a try, but I don't think I'm looking for the kind of game it's best suited to.
But in essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.
4E was the edition that hit just as my daughter was old enough to be interested.
To her, 4E D&D is the edition she learned first, and even now she prefers it over 5E that she's played at conventions and our FLGS. She misses the cards and the powers!
She meets Pundit's horrid GATEKEEPER requirement! The NERVE of some people, expecting that you need to PLAY the game to be part of the community!
Quote from: Larsdangly;1042987I've always called all of these games D+D in casual conversation. As in, 'what do you want to do with our D+D game this weekend? Hmmm...how about we pick up our Runequest party that was last left drunk in a gutter in Pavis?'
Why not "What do you want to do with our Runequest game this weekend?"?
Quote from: Skarg;1043131Why not "What do you want to do with our Runequest game this weekend?"?
Same reason some folks call any soft drink "a coke".
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043092The benefits of free speech outweigh the problems.
Hell yeah!
Peeholes for everyone!
Quote from: Skarg;1043131Why not "What do you want to do with our Runequest game this weekend?"?
I don't know; it just sort of naturally popped up as a habit of people in my regular group when we were all in high school, and it stuck.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1043138Hell yeah!
Peeholes for everyone!
Well, without one you're gonna get one hell of an engorged bladder, son...
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043092I'm just looking for a forum where I can like older editions and dislike newer editions I've played.
Crazy talk!
I want a forum where you can like old and new. And dislike the stupid stupid things designers and companies keep doing.
If I liked something new, I like it and wouldn't be afraid to say. I just haven't yet.
I got all excited about FFG's "X wing" game a couple years back, but then they ruined it by adding in the collectable card aspect.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043224If I liked something new, I like it and wouldn't be afraid to say. I just haven't yet.
I got all excited about FFG's "X wing" game a couple years back, but then they ruined it by adding in the collectable card aspect.
There are cards in X-wing, but there's no randomness in the cards when you make a purchase nor is there any increased rarity among the cards. You can even find all the needed data online and just jot the notes down for cards you don't own. Some of this may differ if you're playing in organized play events, but for at-home play that won't matter.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1043226There are cards in X-wing, but there's no randomness in the cards when you make a purchase nor is there any increased rarity among the cards. You can even find all the needed data online and just jot the notes down for cards you don't own. Some of this may differ if you're playing in organized play events, but for at-home play that won't matter.
They did have an issue that "forced" one to buy off faction kits to get specific upgrades. Maybe that is what he means as there has never been a random element to the cards. But this seems to be being fixed in X-Wing 2.0 where they've claimed you'll not have to buy off-faction anymore to get all applicable cards for your preferred faction.
My guess is the old man never even has played the game.
Quote from: AaronBrown99;10431244E was the edition that hit just as my daughter was old enough to be interested.
To her, 4E D&D is the edition she learned first, and even now she prefers it over 5E that she's played at conventions and our FLGS. She misses the cards and the powers!
She meets Pundit's horrid GATEKEEPER requirement! The NERVE of some people, expecting that you need to PLAY the game to be part of the community!
4E came out when I was in high school and it did turn me away from D&D for a while, leading me into World of Darkness and later Big Eyes Small Mouth.
Pathfinder and the OSR got me back into D&D just in time for Fifth Edition's release.
But with that being said, if people like 4E, then that's cool with me. I've considered looking into 4E again to see if it was really as bad as I remember, or if I just fell victim to the hype. I still have my old copy of the Players Handbook on my bedroom shelf gathering dust.
I barely played 4E at all, mostly because I was put off by the negative press surrounding it and the drastic changes compared to 3.5 (the version of D&D I started with) but I think I might re-read it to give it a second chance.
But seriously, I'm in favor of letting people like what they like.
It's what separates us from people like Darren MacLerran and to a lesser extent, Pundit.
There is a very good core design concept somewhere deep inside 4E, and I tried it on for size to see how it came out at the table. But it is such a combat-focused, slow playing game I just couldn't stick with it. The idea I liked was having something resembling traditional magic-user spell slots to treat the special abilities of all classes. I have half-written an OSR fantasy heartbreaker that does this without all the grade inflation and crazy-making complexity of 4E, and I remain convinced that it could be great.
Quote from: tenbones;1043052I draw no distinction between what you said vs. what I said. In the good ol'days D&D was still the sky under which the kingdom of RPG's existed. Today, sure we have more options. But that also ignores all non-D&D games pull from the same general pool. And now there are more D&D players than ever, and that spills over to our shores where D&D isn't the primary game. I see it in my own interactions with new players at my table. They walk in with conceits that come from this ideology that while WotC might not be the primary cause, they certainly shill for it in their own manner.
To the degree that is affects me? Very little. But as I've said elsewhere in other threads - it has become detritus that has washed upon my shore... and I find it unnecessary and unwelcome.
Quote from: tenbones;1043052And for some - like Pundit - he's choosing to stand his ground on it. Just like many others are doing in the various locations of Geek Country. Yes life will move on. The Math *will* win out. But some people want to hasten that process, and I do understand that.
My experience that what shapes hobbies like ours is those who do the work. Works that are useful, relevant and above all fun for those who play tabletop roleplaying. My response regardless of the ideology being pushed is promote, explain, and demonstrate how one can do work that is useful, relevant and fun. I have opinions on forge style RPG theory. But ultimately it was the work I shared on sandbox campaigns and the hexcrawl format that had a bigger impact than any piece of punditry I wrote. Along with the aid I gave other in the hobby and industry to help realize their works.
The way to win is to produce better material over the long haul. Not by writing or producing editorials on gaming politics.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1043226There are cards in X-wing, but there's no randomness in the cards when you make a purchase nor is there any increased rarity among the cards. You can even find all the needed data online and just jot the notes down for cards you don't own. Some of this may differ if you're playing in organized play events, but for at-home play that won't matter.
Can confirm. If you want to get competitive, and play in a Store Championship or a Regional, you're going to have to buy ships you may not want for the upgrade cards, to be competitive.
As a collector and competitive player, this has not been an issue for me. If one only wanted to play one faction, they might be a bit put off.
But if you're just playing with friends, I doubt you'd even want to proxy much. The game is hella fun on it's own, and you can play without obessively collecting everything.
But it's not at all like MTG, with it's sealed boosters. Every expansion for X-Wing is a set list of ships and upgrades and stuff.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/xwing-miniatures/images/4/4d/EWing-components.png/revision/latest?cb=20150426174140)
D&D 4E would have been a lot easier for people to accept if it hadn't been for the bizarrely antagonistic ad campaign they ran. The monster math (primary source of slowness) not being fixed until MM3 didn't help either. Or the Essentials line not being clear on whether it was D&D 4.5, or just more 4E content in a new format.
... Yeah, 4E had a lot of issues. It had a lot of good ideas too, and was a logical extension in the direction that D&D was growing at the time. And personally, it was much easier to run than 3x or even 5E.
But going back to the topic at hand: honestly, if WotC wants to have an active hand in shaping the community around their current product, I say have at it. It's if/when they start attempting to control the hobby as a whole that I take issue. Not that they really can, anyway.
The problem is the cards at all. I hate the very concept.
I don't want a card that says "Ace Pilot." I want to BE an Ace Pilot.
If you play "Fight in the Skies/Dawn Patrol," a Spad XIII is a Spad XIII is a Spad XIII. If you want an "ace pilot," play the game and shoot down five enemies with your plane. You will then be an Ace Pilot, and yes, you get bonuses.
But the ONLY way to get those bonuses is in-game.
I thought X-Wing basic game was marvelous. It pisses me off that I can't buy just "X Wing" and "Tie Fighter;" they're all crapped up with cards.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043249The problem is the cards at all. I hate the very concept.
I don't want a card that says "Ace Pilot." I want to BE an Ace Pilot.
If you play "Fight in the Skies/Dawn Patrol," a Spad XIII is a Spad XIII is a Spad XIII. If you want an "ace pilot," play the game and shoot down five enemies with your plane. You will then be an Ace Pilot, and yes, you get bonuses.
But the ONLY way to get those bonuses is in-game.
I thought X-Wing basic game was marvelous. It pisses me off that I can't buy just "X Wing" and "Tie Fighter;" they're all crapped up with cards.
Gotcha covered, my man.
http://dockingbay416.com/campaign/
Thanks!
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043260Thanks!
Welcome. I haven't played it, but it might address some of your wishes.
Dawn Patrol was an excellent game. We played a great deal back in the day. I'd love to play it again in the future to see how it holds up decades later.
If anyone is interested in "reliving 4e", I recommend the Gamma World 4e boxed set FAR MORE than the D&D game. As it was created late in the design cycle, its a more streamlined version. Just nuke the jokey random mutation card nonsense. It's unnecessary and distracting, unless you prefer GW to be more gonzo comedy.
In many ways, 13th Age is D&D 4.5e and I'd recommend that over the D&D game. 13th Age combines the best of 4e designs with excellent new ideas.
And I say all this as a unabashed 4e fan, but "My 4e" is what I play and its kitbashed from the original playtest through PHB3. I've heard there are 4e retrowhatevers out there, but I have not checked any of them out to know if they might be worthwhile.
As I've said before, 4e's greatest sin was being named D&D.
But there
is a community which surrounds RPGs simply because you need other people involved in order to engage with them.
Or
do you? Because I've noticed most of the shifts (such as reading RPGs for entertainment or watching people play online) involve making this less so.
Regardless, saying such doesn't exist is delusional.
Quote from: Larsdangly;1042850The group of 'SJW's that you have in your cross hairs are also a fictional construction.
Which is weird, considering how many actual ones are out there.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1043057I'm generally a believer in cats doing their own thing. And by 'believer' I mean that I can't really get my cats to do anything they don't want to.
However, this is the second time my cat has gotten in the way while I was filming a video; she seems to like it. So we'll likely see her again.
Cats have all but dropped the pretense of not trying to take over the internet.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043092I'm just looking for a forum where I can like older editions and dislike newer editions I've played.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043116as long as you don't tell me I'm wrong for liking OD&D better.
That's the problem though, isn't it? You can't say you hate something without implying the people who like it are somehow stupid.
Quote from: estar;1043246My experience that what shapes hobbies like ours is those who do the work. Works that are useful, relevant and above all fun for those who play tabletop roleplaying. My response regardless of the ideology being pushed is promote, explain, and demonstrate how one can do work that is useful, relevant and fun. I have opinions on forge style RPG theory. But ultimately it was the work I shared on sandbox campaigns and the hexcrawl format that had a bigger impact than any piece of punditry I wrote. Along with the aid I gave other in the hobby and industry to help realize their works.
The way to win is to produce better material over the long haul. Not by writing or producing editorials on gaming politics.
Then let me tell you about Star Wars.
Here was a franchise sustained by the fandom during the drought before the EU, which was itself mostly the product of that work. Then suddenly it was sold to Disney, where people who had no investment in it proceeded to take a massive shit on it, torched the entire EU, replaced it with ideologically driven storylines, and then told fans they were misogynists and Nazis when they got angry about it.
So exactly how did all that hard work pay off? Exactly how did they win?
I mean I don't approve of The Pundit's means, and often think he's tilling at windmills, but I certainly understand his concerns and consider them valid.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043304But there is a community which surrounds RPGs simply because you need other people involved in order to engage with them.
You need a HOBBY. A hobby has a group of people involved in it, which don't need to have anything in common other than participating in the hobby. They don't need some kind of sense of belonging, a moral code, a set of ideological leaders to tell us what to do, or any of the other bullshit implied every time an SJW talks about the "D&D community".
So can you call the D&D Hobby a 'community' just because they all play RPGs together?
I guess you could, but since the term would be utterly indistinct from "hobby", it's a meaningless term.
Whereas, if you expand it to try to define it as anyone who has some kind of peripheral interest in D&D, be it watching Youtube shows or wearing nostalgia-driven D&D t-shirts or buying D&D adult coloring books, then you have a group of people who are all called a community but don't necessarily DO anything together, making it equally irrelevant. Unless your only goal is to sell them stuff, or to control them.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043304Then let me tell you about Star Wars.
While an accurate description of what happen with Star Wars is not the same situation we face in the hobby.
1) Star Wars Fandom have no open content on which they can opt to do their own thing. The open content we have allows us to work directly with several edition of the most popular RPG, D&D.
2) D&D has specific and beloved IP like Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms which nominally are subject to the same issues as Star Wars however they are pastiches of myriad fantasy elements. This is reflected in the open content that been released.
What the Star Wars EU situation illustrates are the problems when there is no open content for hobbyists turn to when the current IP holder decides to do something nonsensical.
This isn't just a D&D/Hasbro/WotC thing. In boardgame forums some people have started talking about the boardgaming community a lot. "As a community, we need to do a better job of [something most people in the hobby don't actually give a shit about]." I don't think the desire to turn their hobby into a community is malignant for most people - more sad, really. As people become more isolated in meatspace, they look to the ersatz communities of social media to fill the gap. This is especially true of nerd hobbies with a strong social media presence. People want to feel they belong to something bigger, something they aren't getting in their day-to-day life in the real world.
I do think identarian zealots see the 'hobby as community' model as a way to leverage their ideology into the hobby and pressure it to conform to their dogma. Which is why they tend to be the ones who insist that their hobbies are a community, the better to ardently police the behaviour of strangers in their new community. And they're growing increasingly influential, because they've demonstrated that if even 10 or 15 per cent of participants in a hobby feel really, really, really strongly about stuff, they can push it to the top of the agenda if most of the other people in the hobby are passive and complacent.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043304But there is a community which surrounds RPGs simply because you need other people involved in order to engage with them.
You need other people to play bocci ball. Or have a BBQ with friends. Doesn't mean there's a global bocci community or BBQing community.
Most of my friends who play D&D have never read or posted on social media about gaming. Never watched a Youtube video about D&D. Or been to a con or played at a game store. Every other person who has ever played D&D could walk away from the hobby tomorrow and they would neither notice or care. So how, exactly, are they part of a 'community,' any more than five guys who get together once in a while to play guitar and drums in a garage are part of a community?
Quote from: Haffrung;1043353You need other people to play bocci ball. Or have a BBQ with friends. Doesn't mean there's a global bocci community or BBQing community.
Most of my friends who play D&D have never read or posted on social media about gaming. Never watched a Youtube video about D&D. Or been to a con or played at a game store. Every other person who has ever played D&D could walk away from the hobby tomorrow and they would neither notice or care. So how, exactly, are they part of a 'community,' any more than five guys who get together once in a while to play guitar and drums in a garage are part of a community?
Exactly. Out of 20+ odd people that I game with on a regular basis, I'm the only person that participates in anything outside our games that is even tangentially gaming related.
I'm the only one out of the group that could even be considered part of the "community", and I don't think of myself in that fashion. Instead, I post on a couple of message boards, and read a lot more than I post. I like it here
because there are people who prefer different games and different editions, and aren't afraid to say so, and why. The "why" is important to me. Because I don't really enjoy any game unchanged, but I do enjoy starting with a game, and then tweaking it some to be more like another game, to get to something that plays well with our groups.
It is patently absurd to apply the phrase 'gaming community' to people who don't game. I don't know why anyone would think that was something other than double speak or advertising clap-trap.
But don't take that as a vote in favor of the rest of the 'SJW' nonsense the OP is incensed about, because I think all that is a lot of made-up culture war melodrama.
My neighbourhood as a community association of which I am a member. The only function I attended this year was a recycling event where I was able to dump five old laptops. Once in a while, there is a dinner event we go to where we interact with one other family who are our friends. I wonder if communities even exist at all.
Quote from: Krimson;1043370My neighbourhood as a community association of which I am a member. The only function I attended this year was a recycling event where I was able to dump five old laptops. Once in a while, there is a dinner event we go to where we interact with one other family who are our friends. I wonder if communities even exist at all.
A lot of talk about Community does seem to correlate with a lack of community.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043304That's the problem though, isn't it? You can't say you hate something without implying the people who like it are somehow stupid.
No you don't. I dislike, nay DESPISE, White Wolf's Exalted line, but at no point do I say that people shouldn't like it. I like a lot of flawed things, I wouldn't be able to play D&D if I didn't. It's when people come on and say 'I'm doing it wrong' that my hackles get up.
And let me pick on Gronan for a second, whenever he comes on and says 'Back in MY day' I don't have a problem, but it's when he comes out and says things like 'People are booger eating morons' (or various variations on) which implies if they don't do it HIS way, that's what I dislike. Maybe he doesn't know he's doing it, but I will never say that his love of his modified/homebrewed OD&D is wrong. NEVER. He likes what he likes, and that's something I will not take away from ANYONE. Just don't try and do that to me.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1043374No you don't. I dislike, nay DESPISE, White Wolf's Exalted line, but at no point do I say that people shouldn't like it. I like a lot of flawed things, I wouldn't be able to play D&D if I didn't. It's when people come on and say 'I'm doing it wrong' that my hackles get up.
And let me pick on Gronan for a second, whenever he comes on and says 'Back in MY day' I don't have a problem, but it's when he comes out and says things like 'People are booger eating morons' (or various variations on) which implies if they don't do it HIS way, that's what I dislike. Maybe he doesn't know he's doing it, but I will never say that his love of his modified/homebrewed OD&D is wrong. NEVER. He likes what he likes, and that's something I will not take away from ANYONE. Just don't try and do that to me.
What rankles me is when Gronan flat out says that everyone is stupid for not psychically knowing how the Gary buds played back in the 70's.
Gronan is very welcome to play OD&D his way. But he has a nasty habit of shitting on everyone else's idea of fun.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1043377What rankles me is when Gronan flat out says that everyone is stupid for not psychically knowing how the Gary buds played back in the 70's.
Gronan is very welcome to play OD&D his way. But he has a nasty habit of shitting on everyone else's idea of fun.
He's not the only one, but he is one of the more vocal.
Again, play what you like, like what you like, but give us the same respect, yes?
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043304That's the problem though, isn't it? You can't say you hate something without implying the people who like it are somehow stupid.
Bullshit.
Most people are booger-eating morons.
It has nothing to do with gaming. Most PEOPLE, period.
Half the world has an intelligence under average. 90% of the people with over average intelligence don't use it, stumbling around day by day reacting by habit and reflex.
Yes, I'm a thorough misanthrope. I admit it. Yes, my wife is an Episcopal priest. Imagine how big an asshole I'd be if I WASN'T trying to act like a Christian.
As for the whole 'community' thing, I agree it's largely a marketing slogan.
I think there's a difference between a game-oriented league or association, like RPGA was, and a 'D&D community.' The former actually has a definable membership, rules, sanctioned events/organized play, etc.
The latter is not even a real thing.
Quote from: Ewan;1043399As for the whole 'community' thing, I agree it's largely a marketing slogan.
I think there's a difference between a game-oriented league or association, like RPGA was, and a 'D&D community.' The former actually has a definable membership, rules, sanctioned events/organized play, etc.
The latter is not even a real thing.
It's also indicative of a culture where people are desperate to feel they belong to something. If you attack the notion they are a valued part of the "community", you attack their sense of identity and self-worth.
And, man, if your self-worth is derived from watching other people play a roleplaying game, you have my pity.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043387Most people are booger-eating morons.
It has nothing to do with gaming. Most PEOPLE, period.
Half the world has an intelligence under average. 90% of the people with over average intelligence don't use it, stumbling around day by day reacting by habit and reflex.
Yes, I'm a thorough misanthrope. I admit it. Yes, my wife is an Episcopal priest. Imagine how big an asshole I'd be if I WASN'T trying to act like a Christian.
I've seen you pick and eat some boogers yourself. As long as you aknowledge that you're an ass, and leading the charge of the morons, I guess "you do you".
Blah blah blah. Everybody takes their turn holding the Idiot Ball.
Quote from: Ewan;1043399As for the whole 'community' thing, I agree it's largely a marketing slogan.
Well, the D&D Adventurer's League is just the unpaid advertising arm of WotC....
Quote from: Ewan;1043399I think there's a difference between a game-oriented league or association, like RPGA was, and a 'D&D community.' The former actually has a definable membership, rules, sanctioned events/organized play, etc.
The latter is not even a real thing.
The RPGA used to also cover more games than just D&D. They had some great stuff for d6 Star Wars in the old Polyhedron newsletter for example.
Quote from: darthfozzywig;1043402It's also indicative of a culture where people are desperate to feel they belong to something. If you attack the notion they are a valued part of the "community", you attack their sense of identity and self-worth.
And, man, if your self-worth is derived from watching other people play a roleplaying game, you have my pity.
This forum should have a like button.
Quote from: jeff37923;1043409The RPGA used to also cover more games than just D&D. They had some great stuff for d6 Star Wars in the old Polyhedron newsletter for example.
True.
Also some stuff for the non-D&D TSR games: Boot Hill, Top Secret, Gamma World, etc.
RE Adventurers League:
Do guys who run organized play get free modules and stuff?
Quote from: Haffrung;1043420This forum should have a like button.
I think it would need better software like Xenforo.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043224If I liked something new, I like it and wouldn't be afraid to say. I just haven't yet.
I got all excited about FFG's "X wing" game a couple years back, but then they ruined it by adding in the collectable card aspect.
Heh, I feel the same way about Warzone Resurrection. Get those damned cards out of my wargame. Though I'm betting X-Wing didn't have to go to six point type to fit everything on the cards. Had to get a magnifying glass.
Quote from: Ewan;1043424RE Adventurers League:
Do guys who run organized play get free modules and stuff?
Yes and no. Some they have to pay for but depending on what level you are in the AL structure, the better the perks.
Quote from: Ewan;1043424RE Adventurers League:
Do guys who run organized play get free modules and stuff?
Not anymore, we used to. But I personally have a deal with my local game store to help subsidize the costs.
Why so serious?
Quote from: Haffrung;1043353You need other people to play bocci ball. Or have a BBQ with friends. Doesn't mean there's a global bocci community or BBQing community.
Well actually...
Regardless, my point is that communities naturally form around interests, and some form of community is required to play RPGs.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1043374I dislike, nay DESPISE, White Wolf's Exalted line, but at no point do I say that people shouldn't like it.
You don't have to. Merely being critical of Exalted
implies it.
It
shouldn't, but that's the reality.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1043374It's when people come on and say 'I'm doing it wrong' that my hackles get up.
And even then, so what?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1043374He likes what he likes, and that's something I will not take away from ANYONE. Just don't try and do that to me.
Does someone telling you you're wrong for liking something really do that?
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043387Half the world has an intelligence under average.
Calls half the people stupid. Doesn't understand how statistics work.
Quote from: darthfozzywig;1043402It's also indicative of a culture where people are desperate to feel they belong to something. If you attack the notion they are a valued part of the "community", you attack their sense of identity and self-worth.
And that's why people can't tell the difference between criticizing a thing, and telling them they're a bad person for liking a thing.
Quote from: Haffrung;1043420This forum should have a like button.
It
had one, but the people here couldn't handle it. Too much of a threat to board culture or something.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1043313You need a HOBBY. A hobby has a group of people involved in it, which don't need to have anything in common other than participating in the hobby. They don't need some kind of sense of belonging, a moral code, a set of ideological leaders to tell us what to do, or any of the other bullshit implied every time an SJW talks about the "D&D community".
Yes !
QuoteWhereas, if you expand it to try to define it as anyone who has some kind of peripheral interest in D&D, be it watching Youtube shows or wearing nostalgia-driven D&D t-shirts or buying D&D adult coloring books, then you have a group of people who are all called a community but don't necessarily DO anything together, making it equally irrelevant. Unless your only goal is to sell them stuff, or to control them.
Those kind of people are called customers, or clients by the commercial entities trying to sell them stuff. Depending on the commercial entities, and on the different actors therein, customers can be valued as people and respected or they can be valued as cash cows and treated with utmost contempt - and all the variations and combinations between these opposite states.
Those things seem obvious but with the SJWs and other ideologues making noise in our hobby, basic and common sense things need to be repeated.
Quote from: Haffrung;1043350because they've demonstrated that if even 10 or 15 per cent of participants in a hobby feel really, really, really strongly about stuff, they can push it to the top of the agenda if most of the other people in the hobby are passive and complacent.
The same thing goes in society at large, in some measure. Proof: the disproportionate emphasis on transsexual people in the USA today (I've got nothing against transsexual people), by the media and the SJW movement, which may drive troubled youth, particularly females, to indentify as such (look for ROGD in your search engine of choice, if you're interested. I will now cease this off-topic incursion :-).
Quote from: HaffrungThis forum should have a like button.
Quote from: Anon AdderlanIt had one, but the people here couldn't handle it. Too much of a threat to board culture or something.
I'm a newcomer here, so perhaps it's not my place to say so,
but I dislike LIKE buttons and other forms of conditioning behavorial props a la Facebook in my cogent forums.
Quote from: darthfozzywig;1043402And, man, if your self-worth is derived from watching other people play a roleplaying game, you have my pity.
That's the really sad part in all of this: just how many people are so desperately isolated that they fall for this bullshit.
Just as a thought experiment: with the GoH, and a counter to her, Michelle Malkin.
She's a old school gamer from way back. In fact, she did a brief video about this on her Facebook page.
(sorry, I can''t link to it because works blocks FB)
I would agree that community might be over-used (or used too broadly at times) but at some level is there really difference between hobby and community? Playing a specific game, or maybe even RPGs in general, certainly creates a community of interest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_interest) especially if one is part of or a regular at a FLGS, a meet-up type group or internet forums.
PS: I would suggest static images/pictures during your talks. The shaking/floating about is distracting. Unless your going to do something with the books, wouldn't a static image work just as well?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1043494That's the really sad part in all of this: just how many people are so desperately isolated that they fall for this bullshit.
Not sure what neck of the woods you're from Pundit but it sounds like you've hit the nail on the head: when I was a kid, and from then on all the way up until...well, hell, 2015, people just shut up and gamed. What happened?
Quote from: blackstone;1043510Just as a thought experiment: with the GoH, and a counter to her, Michelle Malkin.
She's a old school gamer from way back. In fact, she did a brief video about this on her Facebook page.
(sorry, I can''t link to it because works blocks FB)
That's a great video. And Malkin plays the correct version of D&D, too! :D
(here's a link to the video on Twitter)
https://twitter.com/crtv/status/987160633824038913?lang=en
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1043545Not sure what neck of the woods you're from Pundit but it sounds like you've hit the nail on the head: when I was a kid, and from then on all the way up until...well, hell, 2015, people just shut up and gamed. What happened?
This is going to sound incredibly stupid and unrelated, but it always leads back to: Gamergate. Before that shitstorm, the SJW/Feminist politics was mostly fringe, but once the media got outed for being in collusion with their supposed rival, all pretense was dropped and the hit pieces came out along with the knives, then the American Presidential Election happened, which made them further dig in and bleat. But all of this, every single step of it, leads all the way to the boogeyman that was named 'Gamergate'.
Even to this day, they trot it out and screech about like some sort of autistic chimpanzee.
"Community" has become an insidious word that stinks of groupthink.
Also, "community" denotes a form of identity, and in the age of identity politics, it easily turns the community political as we now know too well.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043387Imagine how big an asshole I'd be if I WASN'T trying to act like a Christian.
You'd probably be happier.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1043685You'd probably be happier.
"I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity."
C.S. Lewis
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043714"I didn't to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity."
Solid point!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1043685"Community" has become an insidious word that stinks of groupthink.
Also, "community" denotes a form of identity, and in the age of identity politics, it easily turns the community political as we now know too well.
Yep.
It's so often used in a forced, artificial, or overly broad way.
Quote from: Ewan;1043716Yep.
It's so often used in a forced, artificial, or overly broad way.
It's why, "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help," has been partially replaced by the equally scary, "I'm a community organizer, and I'm here to fix things." A natural community doesn't need an organizer, beyond some member to step up and arrange a calendar of events. Everyone was already doing whatever the "community" is about anyway, and will go back to doing it that way if the organizer steps aside.
This is hardly new in life, either. It's only lately that it is has become overtly political at a national level. Heck, churches have dealt with that kind of nonsense since the first potluck got organized. Everyone's bringing a dish, and someone keeps a list, and everything is fine. Until someone has to appoint themselves the person that decides what everyone else will bring. :p
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043387Most people are booger-eating morons.
It has nothing to do with gaming. Most PEOPLE, period.
Half the world has an intelligence under average. 90% of the people with over average intelligence don't use it, stumbling around day by day reacting by habit and reflex.
Yes, I'm a thorough misanthrope. I admit it. Yes, my wife is an Episcopal priest. Imagine how big an asshole I'd be if I WASN'T trying to act like a Christian.
The fact people need a book to tell them to not be jerks to other people is a sad comment on our species.
Quote from: Krimson;1043750The fact people need a book to tell them to not be jerks to other people is a sad comment on our species.
Why is it sad?
What would you prefer? People never taught any values at all? How would that even be possible? Feral children? Raised by robots? ;)
Or is it just that you think transmission of values and formation of morals and character should be entirely oral? No texts at all? No moral ideas present in any written media?
I'm not sure I understand hostility toward a religious tradition on account of it possessing sacred texts.
I'm genuinely puzzled. Of course I don't seriously think you mean that feral kids or robot nannies are really the way to go, but your apparent opposition to texts containing moral ideas does really surprise me.
Quote from: Ewan;1043754Why is it sad?
What would you prefer? People never taught any values at all? How would that even be possible? Feral children? Raised by robots? ;)
Or is it just that you think transmission of values and formation of morals and character should be entirely oral? No texts at all? No moral ideas present in any written media?
I'm not sure I understand hostility toward a religious tradition on account of it possessing sacred texts.
I'm genuinely puzzled. Of course I don't seriously think you mean that feral kids or robot nannies are really the way to go, but your apparent opposition to texts containing moral ideas does really surprise me.
For one, the magic book written by primitive dead people doesn't work. Jesus spoke about divorce and people who get them right in the Sermon on the Mount, and that doesn't stop people from electing adulterers into office while pretending to be Christian. Greed isn't just a sin, it's a Deadly Sin, but that doesn't stop people from putting profits over people. Gluttony is another Deadly Sin, but they doesn't stop people from stuffing their faces and sitting on their asses. Most biblical dietary law is reactionary and probably based on stuff that caused food poisoning, such as improperly cooked shellfish and pork.
And yes, you shouldn't need a book to know that not being an asshole tends to make the people you interact with more cooperative.
Quote from: Krimson;1043756For one, the magic book written by primitive dead people doesn't work. Jesus spoke about divorce and people who get them right in the Sermon on the Mount, and that doesn't stop people from electing adulterers into office while pretending to be Christian. Greed isn't just a sin, it's a Deadly Sin, but that doesn't stop people from putting profits over people. Gluttony is another Deadly Sin, but they doesn't stop people from stuffing their faces and sitting on their asses. Most biblical dietary law is reactionary and probably based on stuff that caused food poisoning, such as improperly cooked shellfish and pork.
And yes, you shouldn't need a book to know that not being an asshole tends to make the people you interact with more cooperative.
'Magic book' 'primitive dead people.'
Okay...
Militant atheism, presentism in an extreme form, and more than a bit of misanthropy.
I can see we won't get anywhere. Forget I asked.
Quote from: Krimson;1043756For one, the magic book written by primitive dead people doesn't work. Jesus spoke about divorce and people who get them right in the Sermon on the Mount, and that doesn't stop people from electing adulterers into office while pretending to be Christian. Greed isn't just a sin, it's a Deadly Sin, but that doesn't stop people from putting profits over people. Gluttony is another Deadly Sin, but they doesn't stop people from stuffing their faces and sitting on their asses. Most biblical dietary law is reactionary and probably based on stuff that caused food poisoning, such as improperly cooked shellfish and pork.
Saying the book doesn't "work" because people still "sin" is foolish. The point of it all is that people do sin, and fall short of their principles. Like any human since we started banging rocks together. Doesn't mean we shouldn't
try. QuoteAnd yes, you shouldn't need a book to know that not being an asshole tends to make the people you interact with more cooperative.
And yet there have been books written about such topics for thousands of years. It's
a good idea to explore the problems of ethics, and learn what our ancestors thought about the subject. Even if you're not a believer in religion [X].
And my apologies. I totally thought I was replying to a post in Punditry.
Quote from: Krimson;1043763And my apologies. I totally thought I was replying to a post in Punditry.
We both got off track, and it's certainly my fault too.
Quote from: Ewan;1043764We both got off track, and it's certainly my fault too.
Yeah I'll try and be more careful. I didn't mean to violate the rules like that. *waits for banhammer*
I should add that I have no problem at all with Krimson.
We both used a bit of sarcasm and humor in our posts. We just strongly disagree about something tangential to the thread topic.
Quote from: Krimson;1043768Yeah I'll try and be more careful. I didn't mean to violate the rules like that. *waits for banhammer*
I think we are probably okay, dude. But if you want me to edit or delete a post, let me know. I didn't take personal offense at anything you had written. We just differ sharply on something that isn't even about gaming. No biggie.
Quote from: Ewan;1043770I think we are probably okay, dude. But if you want me to edit or delete a post, let me know. I didn't take personal offense at anything you had written. We just differ sharply on something that isn't even about gaming. No biggie.
I'd delete my post but more than one person quoted it. Ah well, I'll leave it up to Pundit.
Quote from: Krimson;1043774I'd delete my post but more than one person quoted it. Ah well, I'll leave it up to Pundit.
I expect it won't be an issue, but it's not my forum.
If you get banned and I don't, I'll resign, just to be fair. You wouldn't have posted all you did If I hadn't posted.
Shall we both try to get the thread back on track?
Quote from: Ewan;1043775I expect it won't be an issue, but it's not my forum.
If you get banned and I don't, I'll resign, just to be fair. You wouldn't have posted all you did If I hadn't posted.
Shall we both try to get the thread back on track?
Ah don't do that. It was my fault.
Quote from: Krimson;1043756For one, the magic book written by primitive dead people doesn't work. Jesus spoke about divorce and people who get them right in the Sermon on the Mount, and that doesn't stop people from electing adulterers into office while pretending to be Christian. Greed isn't just a sin, it's a Deadly Sin, but that doesn't stop people from putting profits over people. Gluttony is another Deadly Sin, but they doesn't stop people from stuffing their faces and sitting on their asses. Most biblical dietary law is reactionary and probably based on stuff that caused food poisoning, such as improperly cooked shellfish and pork.
And yes, you shouldn't need a book to know that not being an asshole tends to make the people you interact with more cooperative.
Hey, you know what?
Fuck you to death with a fence post in the ass, that's what. If you can't express your lack of belief in terms other than "magic book written by primitive dead people" you are not worth wasting my time on.
Son of a bitch. I had deleted my Ignore List and tried to make a point of not using it any more.
Oh, and here's a hint for the stupid: Think of the insult to my wife, an ordained minister, in your little oral diarrhea.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1043472Not anymore, we used to. But I personally have a deal with my local game store to help subsidize the costs.
Cool.
Do you see signs of SJW influence in the Adventurers League? Or is it just people playing D&D at game stores and hobby shops, without real life political stuff intruding?
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043806Hey, you know what?
Fuck you to death with a fence post in the ass, that's what. If you can't express your lack of belief in terms other than "magic book written by primitive dead people" you are not worth wasting my time on.
Son of a bitch. I had deleted my Ignore List and tried to make a point of not using it any more.
Oh, and here's a hint for the stupid: Think of the insult to my wife, an ordained minister, in your little oral diarrhea.
Completely off topic, I find Atheists spouting that sort of rhetoric amusing, as they completely gloss over the fact that most Western law and morality systems are based upon religious instruction, good and bad. Our laws against murder, adultery, sex, theft and others were codified in those 'magic books' and we still use them today. Yes, they've been modified to fit the times, but the concepts are still there. Separation of Church and State doesn't exist, never has.
Believe in it or not, it still has a massive influence on everything we do.
Including our gaming styles and choices, even if we go against them or not.
Quote from: Ewan;1043833Cool.
Do you see signs of SJW influence in the Adventurers League? Or is it just people playing D&D at game stores and hobby shops, without real life political stuff intruding?
Here's the thing, I'm Canadian, so this whole American Election thing is mostly an amusement as frankly, we're not going to see any of the political ramifications of what 2016 did for at least 20 years (Americans are still dealing with stuff caused during the Reagan years. 'Trickle down' economics anyone?) That said, AL is changing hands in about a month. However, other than comments on what happened to a certain MTG player who has a Youtube channel, we try to avoid anything political.
Actually no, I'm wrong. Some of the politics HAS bled into AL. The fucking X card. I hate that thing. I fully expect a speshul snowflake pop that fucker during a session any time now. We've been lucky that anyone who may have felt 'offended' played one session and left (Although that is a supposition, I have no evidence of that, life might have simply prevented their return), but I fully expect it to destroy us one day. We're supposed to be adults or at least mature enough to know that this is a family environment so we're supposed to be welcoming and accepting, but now we have this thing, this stupid, idiotic thing that's there because the Lefties think we can't be responsible and caring enough to not need a sign waving in our faces.
So yes, it HAS affected AL, but most people don't see it because it doesn't LOOK all that important.
I agree. If you doubt this, just go over to the Critical Roll forums and say anything that isn't complimentary to the brand of D&D they are selling. It's being managed as an industry and aimed at a demographic. The fact that Forgotten Realms is D&D instead of just one its settings, and the way that they are essentially trying to make people believe in the idea that Hollywood voice actors want to play with you illustrates the way this is all being staged for consumption. I liked it better when D&D was something that was more about the actual players than an idealized version airing on YouTube.
Quote from: Ewan;1043754Of course I don't seriously think you mean that feral kids or robot nannies are really the way to go,
I'm quite pro-robot parenting. I expect human adults will have little involvement in child rearing in 100 years.
And we'll probably be a better species.
Quote from: Krimson;1043756For one, the magic book written by primitive dead people doesn't work.
I'm effectively anti-religious and I can't blame the magic book.
Humans fucking suck and they'll proclaim their virtue and adherence to the magic book, then do everything against the teachings in the book, and if caught, they wave the magic book around demanding everyone forgive their sins. That's the not the fault of the book or its authors. That's incurable hairless ape assholio syndrome.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043806Fuck you to death with a fence post in the ass, that's what.
Is that in Two Corinthians?
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043806I had deleted my Ignore List and tried to make a point of not using it any more.
Excellent! Fuck ignore lists! They're weenie bullshit.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043806Think of the insult to my wife, an ordained minister, in your little oral diarrhea.
You've told us locals use the phrase "prairie nigger" to describe Native Americans.
If your wife is dealing with that level of assholio, I'm sure "magic book by dead primitives" isn't gonna shake her.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1043855That said, AL is changing hands in about a month.
What does that mean??
Quote from: Spinachcat;1044256I'm quite pro-robot parenting. I expect human adults will have little involvement in child rearing in 100 years.
And we'll probably be a better species.
[video=youtube_share;VqwL7GnxiI0]https://youtu.be/VqwL7GnxiI0[/youtube]
https://www.nextnature.net/2016/10/robot-nanny-adult-responsibilities/
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I have no doubt that I'll have the option of robotic RPG players before my final day is done.
If a robot can be a nanny, it surely can learn to play D&D!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1044341I have no doubt that I'll have the option of robotic RPG players before my final day is done.
If a robot can be a nanny, it surely can learn to play D&D!
You can program the robot to actually show up to the game on time and with its character sheet.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1044256I'm quite pro-robot parenting. I expect human adults will have little involvement in child rearing in 100 years.
And we'll probably be a better species.
Sarcasm? Otherwise, that's the dumbest fucking thing I've heard in a long time. Just in the past decade alone we've become a worse species, mostly thanks to technology replacing people and most definitely because of the cancer known as social media.
Quote from: Ewan;1044344You can program the robot to actually show up to the game on time and with its character sheet.
But does it use an iPhone or an actual sheet of paper..?
Quote from: Graewulf;1044398Sarcasm? Otherwise, that's the dumbest fucking thing I've heard in a long time. Just in the past decade alone we've become a worse species, mostly thanks to technology replacing people and most definitely because of the cancer known as social media.
Don't forget Video Games and Rock and Roll music.
Quote from: Brad;1044400But does it use an iPhone or an actual sheet of paper..?
You can program it to use either, as you prefer;).
It also won't whine about its Traveller character dying during generation.
Quote from: Ewan;1044417It also won't whine about its Traveller character dying during generation.
Because it would have read the book and know that it's not possible under the current edition that we're using;).
Quote from: AsenRG;1044425Because it would have read the book and know that it's not possible under the current edition that we're using;).
Heresy!
:)
;)
But for real, I actually do use death during chargen in Traveller.
The way I see it, game-play begins when you finish rolling your initial UPP and make that first choice about service/career.
Quote from: Ewan;1044435Heresy!
:)
;)
But for real, I actually do use death during chargen in Traveller.
The way I see it, game-play begins when you finish rolling your initial UPP and make that first choice about service/career.
Well, that's a houserule/optional rule you're using, then. Unless you're still running Classic Traveller:).
You could certainly program your robots for CT, as well;)!
The minute one defines something as a community, one has to then define the values of that community.
Then comes O'Sullivan's 1st law.
Quote from: AsenRG;1044589Well, that's a houserule/optional rule you're using, then. Unless you're still running Classic Traveller:).
You could certainly program your robots for CT, as well;)!
I only own, and am really only interested in running, CT.
But I'd happily play any edition.
(I'm not counting 2300 as an edition of Traveller. That one I'd like to check out sometime, but I've never even flipped through a copy)
Quote from: Graewulf;1044398Sarcasm? Otherwise, that's the dumbest fucking thing I've heard in a long time. Just in the past decade alone we've become a worse species, mostly thanks to technology replacing people and most definitely because of the cancer known as social media.
Pffft. Technology just allows us to be more efficient and effective at being numbskulls.
As for a worse species.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/steven-pinker-argues-the-world-is-a-safer-healthier-place-in-his-new-book-enlightenment-now.html
Quote from: DocJones;1044612The minute one defines something as a community, one has to then define the values of that community.
Then comes O'Sullivan's 1st law.
The word community has been redefined to include such things as communities of intererest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_interest), a type of imagined community (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_community) which are created by the PR and marketing departments of large firms in order to encourage the association of membership of an imagined community as part of the purchase of the product. i.e. Buy 5th edition and join the the edition "community". This sense of belonging often comes with descriptors like "an Audi Driver" rather than "somebody who has been diving to work in an Audi for the last few years". c.f MacUser, or in this topic's case "roleplayer" or "gamer" in order to describe somebody who spends part of what little free time and disposable income they have playing a game. This whole "sell a product, sell a lifestyle" has been around for well over a century with an early example being the Michelin Guide, but the internet has reframed it as "content marketing".
This SJW or "inclusiveness" campaign is little more than a way to expand the target demographic to include a wider range of consumers. Not to say that some of the SJWs don't believe in what they advocate, but when it comes to serious PR, there is ultimately a marketing strategy behind it. Of course, many people in the industry will easily reconcile their marketing strategies with their "progressive" ethics. Indeed within advertising that has always been the case: "Torches of Freedom" was a phrase used by advertisers to encourage women's smoking.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1044618This SJW or "inclusiveness" campaign is little more than a way to expand the target demographic to include a wider range of consumers. Not to say that some of the SJWs don't believe in what they advocate, but when it comes to serious PR, there is ultimately a marketing strategy behind it. Of course, many people in the industry will easily reconcile their marketing strategies with their "progressive" ethics. Indeed within advertising that has always been the case: "Torches of Freedom" was a phrase used by advertisers to encourage women's smoking.
This is what they want you to believe, but it's more about gatekeeping to make sure the 'undesirables' don't come back. Which are usually the people who created or helped make the hobby in the first place.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1044619This is what they want you to believe, but it's more about gatekeeping to make sure the 'undesirables' don't come back. Which are usually the people who created or helped make the hobby in the first place.
I don't think that what you and I are saying are mutually exclusive: by "branding" the people in marketing are hoping to create a stereotype of what their consumer is. They are selling that stereotype as much as the product itself. Sometimes more so. Red Bull is, IME, something people drink when hungover but the image of a guy on the subway looking rough and gulping down a can of that syrup does not sell. That is why we are presented with images of surfers, wing gliders, ice climbers and street artists. In our case, the old stereotype of men with goaties and rock chicks in metal t-shirts sitting round a table in a basement has been deemed unappealing to the wider audience and replaced with something "alternative" with an eye on hipsters and retro-chic.
SJWs who actually
believe that they are helping minorities are just the useful idiot henchmen of a clever PR division.
But I agree that the demographic that has been deemed unmarketable is by and large the one who created the hobby. At least AFAIK. That is why I consider the behaviour that I described above as a form of social and economic parasitism.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1044618This SJW or "inclusiveness" campaign is little more than a way to expand the target demographic to include a wider range of consumers.
That doesn't sound quite right to me. LGBT in particular were always heavily represented among RPG players, and lots of female players, non-white players etc. In practice Inclusiveness is anti-straight-white-men and I would think the demand for SJW ideological conformity tends to drive away participants from a hobby. I guess the positive coverage from SJW-converged media may compensate for that.
Quote from: S'mon;1044636That doesn't sound quite right to me. LGBT in particular were always heavily represented among RPG players, and lots of female players, non-white players etc.
I take your point, but I supsect that the demographic of LGBT people that also like tabletop games wide enough to warrant such a marketting campaign. Howevere, if you look at LGBTQAA and recall that the final A stands for "Allied" you begin to see just which niche is being targeted.
QuoteA straight ally or heterosexual ally is a heterosexual and cisgender person who supports equal civil rights, gender equality, LGBT social movements, and challenges homophobia, biphobia and transphobia.
Now this is sellable: you don't need anything more specific than a semblance of vague sympathy towards a very varied group while at the same time you get a lot of positive associations for the consumer to purchase such as caring, informed, open-minded, tolerant and best of all righteous. Righteous indignation and the glory of defeating the enemy by er...buying a product and tweeting about how you dislike bigots all for $39.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1044648I take your point, but I supsect that the demographic of LGBT people that also like tabletop games wide enough to warrant such a marketting campaign. Howevere, if you look at LGBTQAA and recall that the final A stands for "Allied" you begin to see just which niche is being targeted.
Now this is sellable: you don't need anything more specific than a semblance of vague sympathy towards a very varied group while at the same time you get a lot of positive associations for the consumer to purchase such as caring, informed, open-minded, tolerant and best of all righteous. Righteous indignation and the glory of defeating the enemy by er...buying a product and tweeting about how you dislike bigots all for $39.
I think you make an arguable point. It seems like an iffy stategy to me if they are driving away the people who actually create and run games, but if they can hit the sweet spot of attracting new players without losing too many old ones - GMs especially - then it can work. If they drive away too many grognards then it'll become a fad that collapses.
I'm not convinced that WoTC or Paizo do have a considered strategy though, I think they probably just blow with the zeitgeist.
Quote from: S'mon;1044651I think you make an arguable point. It seems like an iffy stategy to me if they are driving away the people who actually create and run games, but if they can hit the sweet spot of attracting new players without losing too many old ones - GMs especially - then it can work. If they drive away too many grognards then it'll become a fad that collapses.
You may be right, but there are two things that occured to me: Firstly the demographic that they are estranging has been remarkably tenacious and, to a certain extent, will remain unaffected by current hostility as they were up until the OSR became popular; secondly the people at WotC might not really give a shit about the long term future of the hobby because in their careers, they can always move on to the next fad. After all, enlightened self-interest means that loyalty to a company or industry lasts for as long as it convenient to the enlightened individual.
Quote from: S'mon;1044651I'm not convinced that WoTC or Paizo do have a considered strategy though, I think they probably just blow with the zeitgeist.
Now there is definitely something to that idea.
Get woke and go broke. It's not always a thing, but it is definitely sometimes a thing.
Quote from: Krimson;1043756For one, the magic book written by primitive dead people doesn't work. Jesus spoke about divorce and people who get them right in the Sermon on the Mount, and that doesn't stop people from electing adulterers into office while pretending to be Christian. Greed isn't just a sin, it's a Deadly Sin, but that doesn't stop people from putting profits over people. Gluttony is another Deadly Sin, but they doesn't stop people from stuffing their faces and sitting on their asses. Most biblical dietary law is reactionary and probably based on stuff that caused food poisoning, such as improperly cooked shellfish and pork.
And yes, you shouldn't need a book to know that not being an asshole tends to make the people you interact with more cooperative.
This is completely outside the thread topic. Please stay on topic or you'll be booted from the thread.
Quote from: Ewan;1043759'Magic book' 'primitive dead people.'
Okay...
Militant atheism, presentism in an extreme form, and more than a bit of misanthropy.
I can see we won't get anywhere. Forget I asked.
Totally off topic. Stay on topic or get booted. That applies to everyone.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043806Hey, you know what?
Fuck you to death with a fence post in the ass, that's what. If you can't express your lack of belief in terms other than "magic book written by primitive dead people" you are not worth wasting my time on.
Son of a bitch. I had deleted my Ignore List and tried to make a point of not using it any more.
Oh, and here's a hint for the stupid: Think of the insult to my wife, an ordained minister, in your little oral diarrhea.
Stay on topic.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1044672Totally off topic. Stay on topic or get booted. That applies to everyone.
Absolutely. I'll even go back and delete/edit that. Sorry for getting so far off topic.
Funny thing is... I'm only part of the RPG community because I roleplay... I can't imagine myself part of anything that I wasn't directly involved with.
Same goes for Martial Arts I'm only active in that community (or was) because of teaching and training.
Hasbro doesn't care about a "RPG" community, they care about the "D&D Community" which essentially means someone who identifies with the D&D Brand in some way and gives Hasbro money in some way.
- You play the D&D RPG.
- You play D&D boardgames, cardgames, miniature games, etc.
- You read D&D novels.
- You read D&D comics.
- You watch monetized D&D streams on Youtube or Twitch.
- You interface with D&D's Social Media presence (ie. you giving them free advertising or free content)
All of that makes you part of the D&D Community, because that gives Hasbro money.
This would intersect with anyone who wants to change a hobby by bringing in people who don't actively engage in the hobby. This feeds off the Hasbro-designed Community.
Then you have the Community of gaming tangentials - people who are friends and family of gamers who help out at cons and other get-togethers and who probably interact with gaming by painting minis, reading novels, whatever, even though they don't actually game. Hasbro of course wants these people as they are potential customers. This type of organic, grassroots community gives cover to the other two agenda-driven community types.
Quote from: S'mon;1044651I'm not convinced that WoTC or Paizo do have a considered strategy though, I think they probably just blow with the zeitgeist.
Agreed. It's not as though WotC had come great marketing gurus assigned to the D&D team when 5E was released. The D&D division is really just a handful of nerds with some experience writing adventures. Catching the streaming spectator-as-hobby zeitgeist was just remarkable good fortune. The virtue-signalling part aligns with the postures of the millennial online sf&f culture, which is dominated by people of a particular socio-economic background (and hence a particular social outlook).
Quote from: CRKrueger;1044689Hasbro doesn't care about a "RPG" community, they care about the "D&D Community" which essentially means someone who identifies with the D&D Brand in some way and gives Hasbro money in some way.
- You play the D&D RPG.
- You play D&D boardgames, cardgames, miniature games, etc.
- You read D&D novels.
- You read D&D comics.
- You watch monetized D&D streams on Youtube or Twitch.
- You interface with D&D's Social Media presence (ie. you giving them free advertising or free content)
All of that makes you part of the D&D Community, because that gives Hasbro money.
This would intersect with anyone who wants to change a hobby by bringing in people who don't actively engage in the hobby. This feeds off the Hasbro-designed Community.
Then you have the Community of gaming tangentials - people who are friends and family of gamers who help out at cons and other get-togethers and who probably interact with gaming by painting minis, reading novels, whatever, even though they don't actually game. Hasbro of course wants these people as they are potential customers. This type of organic, grassroots community gives cover to the other two agenda-driven community types.
Succinctly put.
Quote from: Haffrung;1044692Agreed. It's not as though WotC had come great marketing gurus assigned to the D&D team when 5E was released.
Well a position is open
Quote from: Haffrung;1044692The D&D division is really just a handful of nerds with some experience writing adventures.
You could walk it!
http://company.wizards.com/job/manager-global-brand-marketing-dd
QuoteAM I QUALIFIED?
3-5 years of marketing and/or product development experience required.
2-3 years of support in the brand marketing field preferred.
Experience in the video/digital game, hobby game, toy, entertainment, or related field preferred.
Knowledge, Abilities and Characteristics of the Ideal Wizard:
Proven ability to plan and execute on marketing and/or product plans.
Ability to work effectively with and lead diverse groups of people.
Good organization, prioritization and time management skills.
Good written and oral communication skills.
Good analytical skills.
Proficient with MS Office products.
Strong presentation skills.
Knowledge of word-of-mouth marketing and social media in addition to classical marketing preferred.
Knowledge of product development processes preferred.
Experience working with international partners a plus.
Knowledge of geek and pop culture desirable.
Knowledge of video games and/or trading card or other hobby games a plus.
Education and Training:
BA/BS or equivalent experience required, preferably with a concentration in Marketing or related coursework.
Physical Requirements:
Office environment, able to work on computer or phone for long periods of time.
We are an Equal Opportunity / Affirmative Action Employer.
Oh...
I guess Equal Opportunity is a euphemism since Affirmative Action means discrimination.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1044689Hasbro doesn't care about a "RPG" community, they care about the "D&D Community" which essentially means someone who identifies with the D&D Brand in some way and gives Hasbro money in some way.
- You play the D&D RPG.
- You play D&D boardgames, cardgames, miniature games, etc.
- You read D&D novels.
- You read D&D comics.
- You watch monetized D&D streams on Youtube or Twitch.
- You interface with D&D's Social Media presence (ie. you giving them free advertising or free content)
All of that makes you part of the D&D Community, because that gives Hasbro money.
This would intersect with anyone who wants to change a hobby by bringing in people who don't actively engage in the hobby. This feeds off the Hasbro-designed Community.
Then you have the Community of gaming tangentials - people who are friends and family of gamers who help out at cons and other get-togethers and who probably interact with gaming by painting minis, reading novels, whatever, even though they don't actually game. Hasbro of course wants these people as they are potential customers. This type of organic, grassroots community gives cover to the other two agenda-driven community types.
Great way to put it. Totally capitalism at work. Yes, not an RPG community, but a community based on identifying with a corporate brand. It's like the Star Wars "community", who cares what your involvement in so long as you are part of that economy. Consume. Buy more stuff. Or video gamers who are loyal to a particular franchise.
Quote from: AsenRG;1044589Well, that's a houserule/optional rule you're using, then. Unless you're still running Classic Traveller:).
You could certainly program your robots for CT, as well;)!
You are assuming that the operating system on gaming robots lets you opt out of the latest upgrade. For your security and convenience, our robots will only play the latest and greatest editions of all RPGs.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1044671This is completely outside the thread topic. Please stay on topic or you'll be booted from the thread.
I did apologize for going off topic and I will try and be more careful with my posts. That was my fault, thinking I was replying to a thread in Punditry. I have since stopped opening multiple tabs when I visit this site, since apparently I am dumb.
Quote from: Krimson;1044709Great way to put it. Totally capitalism at work. Yes, not an RPG community, but a community based on identifying with a corporate brand. It's like the Star Wars "community", who cares what your involvement in so long as you are part of that economy. Consume. Buy more stuff. Or video gamers who are loyal to a particular franchise.
If you think for one moment that any individual creator isn't thinking strategically to grow their own brand to make money, you're sorely mistaken.
Our asshat-in-chief Pundit. Brent from Precis Entertainment. Zak S. James Raggi. And yes, even WotC. All of the above, including those I didn't mention, are building a following through branding to MAKE MONEY. And it's not disingenuous to admit so.
Quote from: Archlyte;1044124I agree. If you doubt this, just go over to the Critical Roll forums and say anything that isn't complimentary to the brand of D&D they are selling. It's being managed as an industry and aimed at a demographic. The fact that Forgotten Realms is D&D instead of just one its settings, and the way that they are essentially trying to make people believe in the idea that Hollywood voice actors want to play with you illustrates the way this is all being staged for consumption. I liked it better when D&D was something that was more about the actual players than an idealized version airing on YouTube.
To be fair, Critical Role doesn't take place in the Forgotten Realms. It takes place in its own setting, complete with nonstandard classes like gunslingers. I'm not really into streamed gameplay, so I don't know the specifics, but I know there's a whole setting book as well as electronic supplementary materials.
In any case, Critical Role isn't a product of WotC, and has no influence on what setting D&D uses as a default.
Also, while it's true that WotC picked the Forgotten Realms as the default setting for D&D (kind of a no brainer, since it's been the setting for over thirty years of popular novels and computer games), it's not like WotC completely ignores other settings. Adventure books like
Tales from the Yawning Portal and
Princes of the Apocalypse explain how to tie the adventures into other settings. (And other books might do that, too, those are just the ones I'm familiar with.)
I sent my post too quickly, so edited to add:
WotC is never going to revert to TSR's business model of juggling a bunch of different settings at once, because in the end, it was a loser. They've been extremely cautious with what kind of material they release, and how quickly they release it. The late era TSR approach of running several different setting lines at once isn't coming back.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1044725And it's not disingenuous to admit so.
I think one can make money without being cynical about it. One can also have the long term interests of the hobby and even your consumers at heart while still making a good living. Everyone (or nearly everyone) is out to make money but not everyone is manipulative, exploitative and going fro a quick buck.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1044725If you think for one moment that any individual creator isn't thinking strategically to grow their own brand to make money, you're sorely mistaken.
Our asshat-in-chief Pundit. Brent from Precis Entertainment. Zak S. James Raggi. And yes, even WotC. All of the above, including those I didn't mention, are building a following through branding to MAKE MONEY. And it's not disingenuous to admit so.
Of course it's marketing. Money is the only language in the world that matters. That's why people who gripe about it won't have any effect, because their wallets speak less than the wallets of people buying the stuff.
Quote from: The Scythian;1044730To be fair, Critical Role doesn't take place in the Forgotten Realms. It takes place in its own setting, complete with nonstandard classes like gunslingers. I'm not really into streamed gameplay, so I don't know the specifics, but I know there's a whole setting book as well as electronic supplementary materials.
In any case, Critical Role isn't a product of WotC, and has no influence on what setting D&D uses as a default.
Also, while it's true that WotC picked the Forgotten Realms as the default setting for D&D (kind of a no brainer, since it's been the setting for over thirty years of popular novels and computer games), it's not like WotC completely ignores other settings. Adventure books like Tales from the Yawning Portal and Princes of the Apocalypse explain how to tie the adventures into other settings. (And other books might do that, too, those are just the ones I'm familiar with.)
I sent my post too quickly, so edited to add:
WotC is never going to revert to TSR's business model of juggling a bunch of different settings at once, because in the end, it was a loser. They've been extremely cautious with what kind of material they release, and how quickly they release it. The late era TSR approach of running several different setting lines at once isn't coming back.
I assume that there is some sort of agreement between the show and WotC so if nothing else it's an official use of the product. I think when the show started they were using like a FR setting in all but name but switched up later, but in any case you are correct and I ran two separate thoughts together so it looked like I was saying that FR and the show were one thing. Forgotten Realms is a really shitty setting compared to some of the other products, but it's better than other fails. I guess to them it doesn't matter and so you are right, as long as people buy the FR stuff why should they give a shit.
Perhaps they noticed that if you can choose your own setting then you can choose your game system, so they shut that door. I imagine in the dark years where they were barely able to stay in business it was a do or die situation.
But the current situation is one where D&D represents a monolithic trope basket that has the face of celebrities. It's a very smart move on their part but I find it to be a bit of a misrepresentation.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1044725If you think for one moment that any individual creator isn't thinking strategically to grow their own brand to make money, you're sorely mistaken.
Our asshat-in-chief Pundit. Brent from Precis Entertainment. Zak S. James Raggi. And yes, even WotC. All of the above, including those I didn't mention, are building a following through branding to MAKE MONEY. And it's not disingenuous to admit so.
That's absolutely true.
The problem is when a company pretends that what they're doing is not about making money.
I woud add that problems arise when companies choose short sighted strategies that damage the industry and exploit the consumer.
You can make money without being an asshole about it.
And Pundit, by this I mean that you are one of the creators of material that gives GOOD value for money.
It isn't hard for me to think of the opposite case in which I have felt cheated/ripped off and wanted to find a new hobby because of that.
But I will refrain from pointing the finger.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1044940That's absolutely true.
The problem is when a company pretends that what they're doing is not about making money.
But pretending that they're NOT about making money helps them to make more money!
Quote from: RPGPundit;1044940That's absolutely true.
The problem is when a company pretends that what they're doing is not about making money.
When have companies not pretended to care?
Quote from: Ewan;1044613I only own, and am really only interested in running, CT.
But I'd happily play any edition.
(I'm not counting 2300 as an edition of Traveller. That one I'd like to check out sometime, but I've never even flipped through a copy)
Well, then
you and your robots get to die in character generation:)!
Quote from: Baulderstone;1044710You are assuming that the operating system on gaming robots lets you opt out of the latest upgrade. For your security and convenience, our robots will only play the latest and greatest editions of all RPGs.
So, Traveller 5 forever:D?
As usual, the Twitter crowd is interpreting this as "more right-wing white boys whining because they can't bully people out of 'their' hobby anymore." Lots of "women have been a part of RPGs since the beginning!!!!" posturing, which is, of course, utterly missing the point.
RPGs haven't "welcomed" women and PoC, women and PoC have always been here, both on the production and consumer side. Everyone who's been actually playing* these games for longer than six months already knows that and shouldn't care.
It's like some folks can't abide facts or actual history versus their "the world began six months ago when I 'discovered' this cause" mentality.
*Note: sorry to imply that actually playing RPGs was a necessary element of being in this "community". Naturally, watching a YouTube video or reading an article that references D&D makes you an integral part of this community and no "gatekeeping" will ever separate you from the warm bosom of communal love that is blah blah blah...
Quote from: RPGPundit;1044940The problem is when a company pretends that what they're doing is not about making money.
Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1044989But pretending that they're NOT about making money helps them to make more money!
Which is another reason it's all very much like an organized religion.
Quote from: darthfozzywig;1045049As usual, the Twitter crowd is interpreting this as "more right-wing white boys whining because they can't bully people out of 'their' hobby anymore." Lots of "women have been a part of RPGs since the beginning!!!!" posturing, which is, of course, utterly missing the point.
RPGs haven't "welcomed" women and PoC, women and PoC have always been here, both on the production and consumer side. Everyone who's been actually playing* these games for longer than six months already knows that and shouldn't care.
It's like some folks can't abide facts or actual history versus their "the world began six months ago when I 'discovered' this cause" mentality.
*Note: sorry to imply that actually playing RPGs was a necessary element of being in this "community". Naturally, watching a YouTube video or reading an article that references D&D makes you an integral part of this community and no "gatekeeping" will ever separate you from the warm bosom of communal love that is blah blah blah...
Some one on twitter upped the ante by registering a trade mark on #DnDGate
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1045193Some one on twitter upped the ante by registering a trade mark on #DnDGate
Heh, they REALLY don't want someone like Anonymous looking for collusion and political agenda-pushing in RPGs.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1045193Some one on twitter upped the ante by registering a trade mark on #DnDGate
A quick search on the USPTO database shows no sign of such an application.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4810:ju9h39.1.1
Quote from: S'mon;1045213A quick search on the USPTO database shows no sign of such an application.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4810:ju9h39.1.1
they just registered it an the patent office takes a while to process i guess.
Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1045228they just registered it an the patent office takes a while to process i guess.
Several months to years.
And it could be rejected at some point as well....
Quote from: CRKrueger;1045197Heh, they REALLY don't want someone like Anonymous looking for collusion and political agenda-pushing in RPGs.
From your lips to Kek's ear...holes?
Praise Kek!
Quote from: CRKrueger;1044689All of that makes you part of the D&D Community, because that gives Hasbro money.
Absolutely right. For a business, a "community" is potential and existing customers on widest edge of the sales funnel.
"Community" from a hobbyist perspective is something else entirely.
Two entirely different things.
Quote from: Krimson;1044990When have companies not pretended to care?
Well, most big corporations do. But when people were mentioned (me, etc), that's more variable.
The thing too is that rarely do people really FALL for the idea that a corporation is super concerned about social justice or whatever; but with WoTC (and a few other corporations, recently) you have vaguely-liberal rubes totally falling for it.
That's because the SJWs that we see shilling for WotC are corporatists (not even capitalists) with a veneer of identity politics that enables them to lie to themslevs and each other that they are "progressive" and "liberal".
Quote from: RPGPundit;1045320Well, most big corporations do. But when people were mentioned (me, etc), that's more variable.
The thing too is that rarely do people really FALL for the idea that a corporation is super concerned about social justice or whatever; but with WoTC (and a few other corporations, recently) you have vaguely-liberal rubes totally falling for it.
This is why I have a sunburn. When the internet shithole gets too shitty I go outside. :D
Quote from: RPGPundit;1045320Well, most big corporations do. But when people were mentioned (me, etc), that's more variable.
The thing too is that rarely do people really FALL for the idea that a corporation is super concerned about social justice or whatever; but with WoTC (and a few other corporations, recently) you have vaguely-liberal rubes totally falling for it.
It's a new flavour of piety, no different from how some companies court the devoutly religious by broadcasting their faith and Christian identity.
Quote from: Haffrung;1045388It's a new flavour of piety, no different from how some companies court the devoutly religious by broadcasting their faith and Christian identity.
Lord Mammon cares not who you identify with. In the end, money rules.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1043545Not sure what neck of the woods you're from Pundit but it sounds like you've hit the nail on the head: when I was a kid, and from then on all the way up until...well, hell, 2015, people just shut up and gamed. What happened?
Oh, the drama at conventions in the 1980s. D&D edition wars started around 1978, I'd guess. The stuff you see here was in fanzines then, so it was easier to ignore, but it existed. (To forestall quibbling, a lot of the talking points were different, but "are orcs racist" I remember from then.)
Quote from: Ewan;1043833Do you see signs of SJW influence in the Adventurers League? Or is it just people playing D&D at game stores and hobby shops, without real life political stuff intruding?
I've played AL at local conventions and game stores a lot, and not seen any politics. One guy had a red "Make Faerun Great Again" hat, which I think is funny no matter what your politics.
If Pundit had cut the title short at "just a marketing schema by Hasbro" everyone would have yawned, so he had to throw in a little conspiratorial craziness about SJWs and then combine it with a warning not to get political. I can't decide if Pundit is seeking to monetize his politics or politicize his monetizing, and I'm not interested in watching his videos to find out.
Quote from: Lynn;1045270Absolutely right. For a business, a "community" is potential and existing customers on widest edge of the sales funnel.
"Community" from a hobbyist perspective is something else entirely.
Two entirely different things.
I got an email from local AL organizers promoting a particular event as a benefit for "a member of our community" (from context, the local AL community); having read much of this thread just before, it seemed odd to hear it but I think it was a reasonable characterization. It probably wouldn't have been if it had come from a company or somebody less local.
Quote from: rawma;1045635One guy had a red "Make Faerun Great Again" hat, which I think is funny no matter what your politics.
That is hysterical.
Quote from: rawma;1045635I got an email from local AL organizers promoting a particular event as a benefit for "a member of our community" (from context, the local AL community); having read much of this thread just before, it seemed odd to hear it but I think it was a reasonable characterization. It probably wouldn't have been if it had come from a company or somebody less local.
Agreed. A local gaming group can be a community (of sorts) because its real people engaged with each other, especially in meatspace, without any corporate agenda or marketing doublespeak.