Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:10:42 AM

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 09:06:38 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:02:31 AM
As this thread has been necroed. I'm going to talk about SFB again. I recently had a game of Empire & Federation. It can get very crazy. I was playing the Romulans and the Federation player made a deal with me to help fight the Klingons if I just gave him my cloaking tech. Which I did because this bloke is a good friend of mine who would never betray me.

Having to deal with Federation dreadnoughts just appearing above your home planet from cloak really puts friendships into perspective.

It was great fun though. However I really wish ADB would step into the 21st century and do a cleaning up of the rules for the modern day. Similar to Battletech. What I dread happening though is them doing one of those overbloated board game kickstarters where they sell a new version of the game for £200 or more before shipping. Which is becoming a distressingly common occurrence for Board Games and a main factor for why I don't play many board games anymore.

Starfleet Battles/Starfleet Universe is probably one of my favorite settings for games, but ADB is probably one of my least favorite companies for actually getting products done.
All of their games have a great set of rules and systems, they can be clunky for playing in person but they are doable,  but they'd be amazing systems for computer games allowing the game engine to handle all of the crunch so that people can spend more time doing decisions.

What I may end up doing for my home games is replacing most of the counters with resin 3D prints. There are tons of SFB models for free on Thingiverse and Cults. Alongside a homebrew cleanup and streamlining of the rules. I'll make my own bloated kickstarter boardgame for a fraction of the price. I'll release this hyperthetical cleaned up rule book too when it's been playtested a bit.

A cleaned up version of F&E?  Or one of the other games?

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 09:28:37 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:10:42 AM

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 09:06:38 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:02:31 AM
As this thread has been necroed. I'm going to talk about SFB again. I recently had a game of Empire & Federation. It can get very crazy. I was playing the Romulans and the Federation player made a deal with me to help fight the Klingons if I just gave him my cloaking tech. Which I did because this bloke is a good friend of mine who would never betray me.

Having to deal with Federation dreadnoughts just appearing above your home planet from cloak really puts friendships into perspective.

It was great fun though. However I really wish ADB would step into the 21st century and do a cleaning up of the rules for the modern day. Similar to Battletech. What I dread happening though is them doing one of those overbloated board game kickstarters where they sell a new version of the game for £200 or more before shipping. Which is becoming a distressingly common occurrence for Board Games and a main factor for why I don't play many board games anymore.

Starfleet Battles/Starfleet Universe is probably one of my favorite settings for games, but ADB is probably one of my least favorite companies for actually getting products done.
All of their games have a great set of rules and systems, they can be clunky for playing in person but they are doable,  but they'd be amazing systems for computer games allowing the game engine to handle all of the crunch so that people can spend more time doing decisions.

What I may end up doing for my home games is replacing most of the counters with resin 3D prints. There are tons of SFB models for free on Thingiverse and Cults. Alongside a homebrew cleanup and streamlining of the rules. I'll make my own bloated kickstarter boardgame for a fraction of the price. I'll release this hyperthetical cleaned up rule book too when it's been playtested a bit.

A cleaned up version of F&E?  Or one of the other games?

Yes. Federation & Empire. I actually think it'd be easier to clean that game up than Star Fleet Battle proper. Although that's something I want to tackle too someday. This is all going to be long into the future when I have some time though.

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:36:39 AM

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 09:28:37 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:10:42 AM

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 09:06:38 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:02:31 AM
As this thread has been necroed. I'm going to talk about SFB again. I recently had a game of Empire & Federation. It can get very crazy. I was playing the Romulans and the Federation player made a deal with me to help fight the Klingons if I just gave him my cloaking tech. Which I did because this bloke is a good friend of mine who would never betray me.

Having to deal with Federation dreadnoughts just appearing above your home planet from cloak really puts friendships into perspective.

It was great fun though. However I really wish ADB would step into the 21st century and do a cleaning up of the rules for the modern day. Similar to Battletech. What I dread happening though is them doing one of those overbloated board game kickstarters where they sell a new version of the game for £200 or more before shipping. Which is becoming a distressingly common occurrence for Board Games and a main factor for why I don't play many board games anymore.

Starfleet Battles/Starfleet Universe is probably one of my favorite settings for games, but ADB is probably one of my least favorite companies for actually getting products done.
All of their games have a great set of rules and systems, they can be clunky for playing in person but they are doable,  but they'd be amazing systems for computer games allowing the game engine to handle all of the crunch so that people can spend more time doing decisions.

What I may end up doing for my home games is replacing most of the counters with resin 3D prints. There are tons of SFB models for free on Thingiverse and Cults. Alongside a homebrew cleanup and streamlining of the rules. I'll make my own bloated kickstarter boardgame for a fraction of the price. I'll release this hyperthetical cleaned up rule book too when it's been playtested a bit.

A cleaned up version of F&E?  Or one of the other games?

Yes. Federation & Empire. I actually think it'd be easier to clean that game up than Star Fleet Battle proper. Although that's something I want to tackle too someday. This is all going to be long into the future when I have some time though.

What are your thoughts about Federation Commander being a "cleaned up" SFB?  Or "ACTA:SF"/"Starmada" being a "cleaned up" Federation Commander?

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 09:44:23 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:36:39 AM

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 09:28:37 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:10:42 AM

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on October 19, 2023, 09:06:38 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 09:02:31 AM
As this thread has been necroed. I'm going to talk about SFB again. I recently had a game of Empire & Federation. It can get very crazy. I was playing the Romulans and the Federation player made a deal with me to help fight the Klingons if I just gave him my cloaking tech. Which I did because this bloke is a good friend of mine who would never betray me.

Having to deal with Federation dreadnoughts just appearing above your home planet from cloak really puts friendships into perspective.

It was great fun though. However I really wish ADB would step into the 21st century and do a cleaning up of the rules for the modern day. Similar to Battletech. What I dread happening though is them doing one of those overbloated board game kickstarters where they sell a new version of the game for £200 or more before shipping. Which is becoming a distressingly common occurrence for Board Games and a main factor for why I don't play many board games anymore.

Starfleet Battles/Starfleet Universe is probably one of my favorite settings for games, but ADB is probably one of my least favorite companies for actually getting products done.
All of their games have a great set of rules and systems, they can be clunky for playing in person but they are doable,  but they'd be amazing systems for computer games allowing the game engine to handle all of the crunch so that people can spend more time doing decisions.

What I may end up doing for my home games is replacing most of the counters with resin 3D prints. There are tons of SFB models for free on Thingiverse and Cults. Alongside a homebrew cleanup and streamlining of the rules. I'll make my own bloated kickstarter boardgame for a fraction of the price. I'll release this hyperthetical cleaned up rule book too when it's been playtested a bit.

A cleaned up version of F&E?  Or one of the other games?

Yes. Federation & Empire. I actually think it'd be easier to clean that game up than Star Fleet Battle proper. Although that's something I want to tackle too someday. This is all going to be long into the future when I have some time though.

What are your thoughts about Federation Commander being a "cleaned up" SFB?  Or "ACTA:SF"/"Starmada" being a "cleaned up" Federation Commander?

I haven't played or even heard of Starmada so I will check that out. I have played Federation Commander. I think it was a great attempt to bring a game from the 70's into the late 90's. Just two decades late by releasing in the 2010's. It did simplify some things but a lot of the game is still very esoteric to newcomers and presentation is still stuck in the past of dry board game manuals. I have been able to explain it to newbies but that's verbal. You shouldn't NEED to have a game explained to you by someone else. You should be able to read the manual and get the basics at least.

Quote from: King Tyranno on October 19, 2023, 11:16:09 AM
I haven't played or even heard of Starmada so I will check that out. I have played Federation Commander. I think it was a great attempt to bring a game from the 70's into the late 90's. Just two decades late by releasing in the 2010's. It did simplify some things but a lot of the game is still very esoteric to newcomers and presentation is still stuck in the past of dry board game manuals. I have been able to explain it to newbies but that's verbal. You shouldn't NEED to have a game explained to you by someone else. You should be able to read the manual and get the basics at least.

I like "A call to arms: Star Fleet" myself.  I've been able to grok it without other people explaining it.  Imagine federation commander at fleet scale, no power points (just a few special commands that may drain power with a few limited effects of drained power, like choosing to go slower, or fire less weapons),  no shield arcs just firing arcs for weapons and one shield number for the whole ship, no damage boxes just a hull value and the possibility for critical hits to damage specific systems.

I mean, it may be pretty close to what you'd want, who knows, I guess you'd have to look at it. It is meant for battles of like.. 6+ ships per side, but I don't think it breaks down if you go smaller.

Disclosure: I was a proofreader on Prime Directive D20 Modern (PD20M) and play tester on a few Federation Commander products.  I'm also a rabid FASA Star Trek fan (more like Spaceflight Chronology fan by Fred and Stan Goldstein, which FASA basically adopted whole cloth) and collector of Star Trek games.

There is a D20 and a D20 Modern version of Prime Directive, both written by the late Jonathan Thompson of Battlefield Press for ADB.  Jonathan was a FASA Star Trek fan and didn't mind if his love of that game and setting influenced his work The D20 version uses the PHB 3.5 as the "core rules" (as per the OGL) whereas the D20 Modern uses the D20 Modern core rule book.

I have both versions but my group played the PD20M version, aka the "Modern" version. As huge FASA Star Trek fans, we just used the rules in a FASA Star Trek universe background. We had an absolute blast and the rules were great - particularly since the PCs were private merchants/adventurers in FASA's Triangle region (very Traveller like).  Add on the D20 Future supplement and you're cooking with gas! I can't recommend enough.

The game also has some supplements. The Klingon and Romulan sourcebooks are very good and useful for fleshing out servitor and other races within these empires. I adopted these freely into the FASA background.  The Federation sourcebook is good, too, but the Feddies aren't hurting for member races. There are just a few more products. Ah crap, here's a link: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_Directive_(game)

I'm also a fan of Federation Commander and think it's wonderful - a greater game than FASA's starship combat game but less involved than Star Fleet Battles.  I've seen ACTA:SF played and own Books 1 and 2.  Some people swear by it but I've yet to play it, only observe.

ADB has moved their miniatures over to Shapeways and 3D printing. You can get the ships in a few different scales.  I'm currently collecting 1/7000 (!) scale.  Of course, you can choose the quality of the print you want. They are a bit pricey but my prints have been stellar.  They have even added marine combat vehicles to support their marine combat game.

If you're concerned about the SFB universe being too odd, different or weird, don't be.  I was like that for years. It is different but it makes sense internally.

Why not just play traveller?  Its a good game, good rules and its a decent system.  The character generation system is better than anything Paizo or WotC can come up with in in 100 years.

I've been playing Star Fleet Battles, FASA Star Trek and Classic Traveller since they were new. I love the SFB universe and would like to role-play in it. And so I want to try Prime Directive. Not really interested in d20 or GURPS, but I'd like to play the original Prime Directive.

Playing Traveller and FASA Trek side by side as I did, I have to say that Traveller doesn't really seem like it would feel like Trek as much as FASA does. But since I'm a Traveller fan I'm keeping an open mind for the someday-edition of Traveller: Prime Directive.

Quote from: Baron on October 20, 2023, 03:39:30 PM
I've been playing Star Fleet Battles, FASA Star Trek and Classic Traveller since they were new. I love the SFB universe and would like to role-play in it. And so I want to try Prime Directive. Not really interested in d20 or GURPS, but I'd like to play the original Prime Directive.

I was into Star Fleet Battles for a while, and ran an old website of it. I enjoy the Original Series setting, and played a bit of FASA Trek as well. However, I found the original Prime Directive to be completely awful. The core mechanics were convoluted, with different "tri-codes" for every task to indicate levels of success on the d6 dice-pool roll. Moreover, though, it felt completely like a 20th-century special ops game that has to constantly shut down every bit of Star Trek technology.

I ran several Star Trek games in the 1990s that used SFB for ship combat, but I didn't use the Prime Directive rules. I adapted the core rules from Greg Porter's CORPS instead. I have a clunky write-up of my rules here:

https://darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/trek/