Quote from: jeff37923;323144Having a uniform skill mechanic alone is a great and needed upgrade over Classic Traveller, that has been a bug for awhile in the game.

Maybe for you, but I think that's a huge turn-off, even when it was introduced for Traveller near the end of its run.

This is one of those things that some gamers want to 'fix' which I don't consider broken, or even a little chipped.

Unified mechanics are terribly overrated, imho.

Quote from: brettmb;323133It's more than just not being lavish. It purposely tries to recreate the 70's style, but just looks bland and poorly organized rather than retro. Also, it doesn't really do anything different than Classic Traveller. A reprint would have been just as useful. My biggest complaint is that it's too expensive for essentially buying Traveller again.

These were essentially my complaints with it as well. The only thing it did over CT was clarify that you need to roll 8+ for anything and not just a combat hit. We figured that in 1979. I get what the layout artist was trying to do but it didn't work -- I'd way rather they aimed at the internals of, say, Snapshot-era material with that great loose artwork.

Quote from: jeff37923;323144Having a uniform skill mechanic alone is a great and needed upgrade over Classic Traveller, that has been a bug for awhile in the game.

Ah, BITS had cracked that nutshell ages ago.

And if you're a Traveller fan without a small pile of BITS products... What the hell is wrong with you???

Quote from: Halfjack;323222I'd way rather they aimed at the internals of, say, Snapshot-era material with that great loose artwork.

I have the boxed set of Snapshot form 1983. To which version are you referring?

Quote from: Randaconda;323200I prefer GURPS Traveller. It's in an alternate timeline, of course, but there was a lot of support for in in 3e.

Thats mt preferred version of TRAVELLER as well.  Although I ran it for 4 plus years with the 4/e GURPS rules.

MONGOOSE should have emulated the TRAVELLER BOOK. Anyone remember that ? Same size hardback that mongiose did - but artwork and maps that were 100 times more evocative of the setting and universe .
The biggest disappointment with Mongoose's version is just how much the art sucked on it all. I'd have to use the SJG artwork, deckplans , and maps I ever ran the Mongoose system.

- Ed C.

Quote from: brettmb;323226I have the boxed set of Snapshot form 1983. To which version are you referring?

That version, though from memory.

Quote from: Halfjack;323232That version, though from memory.

The interior was a little different from Traveller in that the text was smaller and more cramped. Wasn't much artwork though.

Ed, we've been talking about The Traveller Book. It rocks.

Quote from: brettmb;323235Ed, we've been talking about The Traveller Book. It rocks.

Thats what I figured.

 I still have my copy . (by some miracle). It was used for background reference during my G:T campaign. The illustrations and some other bits were damn useful for getting across some concepts to players who weren't used to the TRAVELLER universe and ways of doing things.


- Ed C.

Quote from: brettmb;323149Softcover would have been cheaper. Also look at the paper stock they used in the book compared to something like Conan. It's not even 60lb stock - it's 20/50lb, or simply put, copy paper. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, but with the scarcity of art, black and white interior, and basic paper stock, I would prefer a much lower price. Granted, there are probably licensing fees that attribute to the cost, but still...

I agree about the softcover pricing and wouldn't mind seeing a lower overall price as well.

As for the paper stock, I think that had more to do with the meltdown of their in-house printing set-up a few months before release than anything else (they were scrambling for awhile to find another printer). The Mongoose Traveller book is still serviceable to use.

Quote from: Warthur;323223Ah, BITS had cracked that nutshell ages ago.

And if you're a Traveller fan without a small pile of BITS products... What the hell is wrong with you???

I'll hold up my copy of 101 Religions with pride! I have all the BITS books released so far.

As for a unified mechanic, I prefer them over mishmashed individual ones scattered throughout the books. Classic Traveller works the way it was written, works so well that it is still being played and championed after 30 plus years, but the Traveller game does not suffer from the improvements made in Mongoose Traveller.

Quote from: The Shaman;323203Unified mechanics are terribly overrated, imho.

Eh. "Stream of consciousness resolution" systems are teh shit, and unified skill systems are not highly overrated.

I love the Universal Task Profile -- it's my favorite thing about MegaTraveller and I've been known to go on at great length about how awesome it is and puts pretty much every other universal resolution mechanic (certainly every other one that's ever been used for Traveller) to shame with its simplicity, versatility, and mathematical rigor. And yet, when playing classic Traveller, using TTB or my boxed set instead of the MT set, I don't miss it or feel any need to import it -- the totally ad-hoc "system" works just fine for me too.

I've always hated the UTP's handling of attributes.  Only every fifth point matters, five ten and fifteen.  Wooo Hooo!

Actually, Marc did a huge work up of the statistical relationships between a wide variety of dice systems for T5 and I must admit it sold me on the T4/T5 model.

For the most part T5 isn't exactly what I want from an rpg but it's certainly been interesting to watch it develop.

Quote from: David Johansen;323320I've always hated the UTP's handling of attributes.  Only every fifth point matters, five ten and fifteen.  Wooo Hooo!

The 0 to +3 spread for stats is consistent with the skill point-ranges (where 1 is basic familiarity and 3 is professional level) and allows tasks to be modified by 1 stat and 1 skill, 2 stats, or 2 skills, thus making the system much more versatile (note: because skills are technically uncapped this gives them an edge in the comparison -- a skill value of 4 or 5 provides more of a boost than anyone can ever receive from a raw stat -- which I like, and at any rate the max DM of +8 keeps this from getting too out of hand). Plus it works well with the initial 2D stat rolls (where a player has an equal (17%) chance of a 0 or +2 DM, and otherwise (66%) has a +1). As for those 4 intermediate points being wasted or not mattering, that's not really true -- they matter as far as stat-improvements (if you've got a 9 you only need +1 point to get that +2 DM, if you've got a 5 or 6 you've got a long long way to go) and also, IIRC, every stat has a separate associated use or value that depends on the whole, undivided number (Str determies the character's max. encumbrance load, End how long they can operate without rest, Int + Edu max number of total skill points, etc.). I told you I can go on and on about this

QuoteActually, Marc did a huge work up of the statistical relationships between a wide variety of dice systems for T5 and I must admit it sold me on the T4/T5 model.

For the most part T5 isn't exactly what I want from an rpg but it's certainly been interesting to watch it develop.

I haven't kept up with developments since c. 2002, but as of that time the system seemed way too complex for my liking and still wasn't as versatile as the UTP. I'm almost willing to believe that the math works (though it absolutely did not in the original T4 system with the half-dice) but it still seems like taking a very long road to get to someplace almost but not quite as good as where you started...

The big problem with T4 wasn't the half dice.  It was the probability range relative to the stat + skill range.  Stat + Skill isn't bad when you've got the difficulty range set seven points higher and slip in a -3 for unskilled actions.  But with T4, it was really easy to rack up a skill 5 + stat 10 = 15 in a game where 4d6 was "impossible".  I can understand why Marc wanted the half die in between 2d and 3d, but the ranges didn't line up right.