Well, I'm sure that the prez, especially that putz in there now, doesn't like SNL or other shows parodying him, and he may not have like "the west wing" being about a president, but he can't tell them they can't use "president of the united states" or the symbol of the office.

I guess we have more free pseech in america than some countries.....

Quote from: Dominus NoxSo if a group doesn't want to be associated with as TV show they can demand not to be named in it? I mguess that works in england, it wouldn't work in America.

I guessing that being British and the BBC being publicly owned has something to do with it. Permissions are generally sought for everything and honoured if something/someone doesn't want to be featured.

Quote from: GRIMI guessing that being British and the BBC being publicly owned has something to do with it. Permissions are generally sought for everything and honoured if something/someone doesn't want to be featured.

Are you actually saying that you have this from the horses mouth? Did the BBC actually state that the UN was unhappy with the 'UN' in U.N.I.T. and that this is why the organisation no longer features in the series? Or is this some kind of internet balderdash? I'm not trying to take the piss here. This is just something I'd never heard a whisper of until you made your comments here GRIM.

Well, the only way I could see the U.N. objecting to being featured in UNIT would be if they felt that portraying anything connected to the UN as being well ran, effective and honest was simply too ridiculous to be believed.

I mean, aliens and time travel, those are at least plausible, maybe even possible, but a branch of the UN actualy doing something besides wasting time and money? I mean, come on!

Quote from: Dominus NoxSo if a group doesn't want to be associated with as TV show they can demand not to be named in it? I mguess that works in england, it wouldn't work in America.

Well until they sue for deformation.

Quote from: JMcL63Are you actually saying that you have this from the horses mouth? Did the BBC actually state that the UN was unhappy with the 'UN' in U.N.I.T. and that this is why the organisation no longer features in the series? Or is this some kind of internet balderdash? I'm not trying to take the piss here.

Obviously you did not read my quote for the Wiki on UNIT, with the producer of the program saying just that in the Doctor Who magazine.

QuoteThis is just something I'd never heard a whisper of until you made your comments here GRIM.

It was posted three posts before GRIM's, try reading threads from the start.

So I missed your post Bagpuss. These things happen. No need to get your knickers in a twist.

And anyway, as much as I loved U.N.I.T. and the Brigadier back in the days of Jon Pertwee, I don't really think that U.N.I.T. would've been suitable for a spinoff series like Torchwood. It's the formalities of a military structure that wouldn't've given the series the right atmosphere IMO. I think that the ragtag, almost amateurish style of the team works pretty well. As you might guess, I'm enjoying the series. I had my doubts about it until the 3rd episode, when I realised that they were opening up the Dr. Who mythos really well, and carrying off the stories with the same panache as they have done with the revival of Dr. Who itself. I'm impressed and delighted.

Quote from: Dominus NoxWell, I'm sure that the prez, especially that putz in there now, doesn't like SNL or other shows parodying him, and he may not have like "the west wing" being about a president, but he can't tell them they can't use "president of the united states" or the symbol of the office.

I guess we have more free pseech in america than some countries.....

Dominus, leaving your America Uber Alles stuff aside for a moment, it's not a requirement of our law that they can't refer to the UN, it's a request that was complied with.

Which I think I already said upthread incidentally.

I don't regard speech as freer in America than Britain, I also don't think one can simply look to the law to assess the constraints on free speech, practical constraints also matter.  One of the biggest constraints on free speech in America is the inability of any serious politician to say they don't believe in god, just as in Britain it's an electoral liability to say you do.  Practical constraints matter as much, sometimes more, than legal ones.

But in terms of legal ones the two countries are in very similar places, as are most Western democracies.

Quote from: BagpussWell until they sue for deformation.

Exactly, like many people with a little legal knowledge Dominus is mistaking one's rights in theory with one's enforceable rights, they are often very different things.

In the US, if I cannot afford to contest a defamation action my freedom of speech can be effectively constrained, regardless of my theoretical rights.  Much like most places really.

Anyways, I've grown to be a huge fan of the new Dr.Who series, but I'm still undecided on Torchwood, after seeing the first two eps.  I'm going to give it more time, but I wanted something a little more "UNIT" like, frankly. A group dedicated to investigating alien enemies and protecting Britain.

I had felt a lot of buildup toward that with the Queen Victoria episode, and then when they did the season finale, I figured "ok, this is Torchwood having lost its way a bit, and the Doc is going to straight them out".

But at least that Torchwood really FELT like the huge mega-organization with enormous power.
THIS Torchwood feels like 4 slackers hiding in a basement; you don't get the feeling that they're an all-powerful superorg at all. It screams of "BBC Wales didn't have the Budget to make this show the way it was supposed to be, so instead you get sewer-dwelling hipsters and shots of Cardiff right outside our filming locale!!".

RPGPundit

I had the same ambivlance after the first 2 episodes pundit. Episode 3 sold me on the series, because it was exciting. I realised that Torchwood is just like the new Dr. Who: classic cheesy SF with no high-concept pretensions, carried off with good scripting, neat plot twists, and strong characterisation that gets you in the guts and makes you give a damn. And episode 4 is more of the same.

As for the style of the Torchwood organisation? Well Torchwood was wiped out in the finale of the last series IIRC. (As was U.N.I.T. during the Eccleston run, wasn't it; its leaders at least?) So what the series represents is one of the local stations bumbling along by itself in the aftermath: they just aren't an all-powerful superorg. In fact they never really were. Or, to be more precise: I seem to recall that the whole point of the Canary Wharf base was that it was brand new, so that it marked a big step up for Torchwood. But the Dalek/Cyberman war twatted all of that before they got it all up and running.

And of course budget constraints played a part in this, but I think it's better that they create something they can do well, rather than aiming too high for something they can neither carry off nor sustain.

Oh, and the Doctor isn't going to make an appearance ever from what I've heard. This is not a Slayer and her crew type story. This is a bunch of regular joes- with a weird leader admittedly- who deal with things that are too insignificant to need the Doctor's attention. A worm's eye view of the Dr. Who universe if you want.

So, I hope the series grows on you as it did on me. If not, it's your loss.

I'm still judging it.  We'll see.

Meanwhile, I'll note a couple of things:

1. Its "defamation", not "deformation", bagpuss.

2. UNIT was not wiped out in the first series of the new who, nor was its "leadership", what were wiped out were its EXPERTS (ie the people who were trying to do the job the Doctor and Liz did back in the Pertwee run).  That would have made a brilliant premise right there for a new series: UNIT's current Brigadier finds him/herself bereft of "scientific advisors" when a whole generation of them got themselves killed. Now they need to rebuild with a bunch of fresh new scientists trying to reconstruct all the knowledge of aliens based on the scribbled notes that were left behind.  Of course, some old experts might just pop around to lend a hand now and then...

RPGPundit

I've watched the first three episodes (I don't watch it on the Sunday night, instead watching it on it's repeated Friday night - where it fits in perfectly with my Sci-Fi night (it's on right after repeats of the second series of V )

Anyway, I'm not convinced about it yet. The Captain Jack we're seeing in Torchwood is different to the one portrayed in the Doctor Who episodes and I'm not sure I like the new portrayal.

Having said that, I'm not a big fan of the new Doctor Who series anyway. I like the Doctor(s), it's just the plots that are failing (IMHO) by being continually based on, or around, Earth.

Still, I'll keep watching. You never know, it might get better

Quote from: RPGPunditI'm still judging it.  We'll see.

Meanwhile, I'll note a couple of things:

1. Its "defamation", not "deformation", bagpuss.

Thank-you.

I kind of liked Episode 2. It did what Sci-fi should do use an Sci-fi plot device to look at the human condition as it is today. In this case a alien that feeds on sexual energy coming to the western world where sex is used all the time just to sell products.

So anyways, what system would you use?

BTW, watched ep. 3. It was better than 1 & 2; I'm not totally there yet, but its growing on me.

RPGpundit