I may start a few of these, but I thought this was a more unusual genre to kick off with.

Rules of the thread, no posting of names without reasons.  It's the reasons make the thread interesting.

So, that out of the way, what would you list as the top five military rpgs of all time?

For me, in no particular order, I have:

In Harm's Way
Recon Deluxe
Twilight 2000

And I'm starting to struggle.  I understand Behind Enemy Lines was very good.

Anyway, over to you, for this genre I can't even find five rpgs, what are your suggestions?

The Gurps WWII stuff is considered quite good too.

If you want some more over the top military action, Armageddon.  This has all your tanks, planes, and machine guns along with angels, demons, and sorcerers.  The remnants of the free world locked in an apocalyptic battle against Cthulhu's nazi zombie army.

And if you want zombie action, Year of the Zombie is a great treatment of soldiers scraping out an existence against the numberless hordes of the undead.

Quote from: MaddmanIf you want some more over the top military action, Armageddon.  This has all your tanks, planes, and machine guns along with angels, demons, and sorcerers.  The remnants of the free world locked in an apocalyptic battle against Cthulhu's nazi zombie army.

And if you want zombie action, Year of the Zombie is a great treatment of soldiers scraping out an existence against the numberless hordes of the undead.

Sure, but to be a military rpg surely a game has to be mostly about the military?  Those are both post-apocalypse horror, you can play military characters but they're not really what the games are about.

Quote from: BalbinusSure, but to be a military rpg surely a game has to be mostly about the military?  Those are both post-apocalypse horror, you can play military characters but they're not really what the games are about.

In that case, shouldn't you knock Twilight 2000 out of the list?

IIRC it assumes that the PCs are going to be military, but then YotZ assumes that a) the PC's are going to get their hands on military kit and b) the only long-term survivors are going to be those with (para)military training or who are smart enough to hide behind or (frankly) under people with military training

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonIn that case, shouldn't you knock Twilight 2000 out of the list?

IIRC it assumes that the PCs are going to be military, but then YotZ assumes that a) the PC's are going to get their hands on military kit and b) the only long-term survivors are going to be those with (para)military training or who are smart enough to hide behind or (frankly) under people with military training

In Twilight 2000 you play realistic soldiers within the US Army chain of command.

Armageddon is nothing like that, YotZ may well be but the descriptions I've seen just didn't seem to make it an rpg primarily about being in the military, which T2000 clearly was.  But, I could be wrong and maybe YotZ is a great military rpg, I just haven't seen it pitched on that basis so far.

If I change T2000 to Merc 2000, you have pretty much exactly the same system but no nuclear war, does that help?

1st ed. Twilight 2000 (GDW) -  I blow up the water tower with my RPG.  Now I blow up the kwanzit hut with my RPG.  Now I blow up...eh, you get the idea.  Our GM let us be Rambo's....that rocked on toast.  I was 14-15, leave me alone...


Delta Force(Task Force Games):  No not the Chuck Norris missles-mounted-on-motorcycle debacle.  But, like, the real thing.  Where you have to plan.  and plan.  And plan. And then spend 10 minutes in game time resolving plan before it goes to shit.  Up side: you get to find out how many walls your .44 desert eagle can penetrate to kill your teammate, a civilian or maybe, if you're lucky a terrorist.

Quote from: BalbinusIn Twilight 2000 you play realistic soldiers within the US Army chain of command.

Well technically speaking the chain no longer exists as all units have reverted to local command, but I'm being more than a little pedantic

Quote from: BalbinusBut, I could be wrong and maybe YotZ is a great military rpg, I just haven't seen it pitched on that basis so far.

"Hold At All Costs", the first YotZ adventure path is definately a military game and the first adventure can played completely zombieless.  In fact I originally pitched it to my players as a military game so when the first corpse got up they were freaked out  The adventures have rules of engagement, chains of command, briefing packs...

Quote from: BalbinusIf I change T2000 to Merc 2000, you have pretty much exactly the same system but no nuclear war, does that help?

If you take the zombies out of YotZ then you have a sourcebook for running US Military games.  Not a particularly good one as it's missing a list of ranks, designations, medals, etc. but at least the weapon ranges are realistic and you can't take a tank out with a katana

Marauders has a section on the tactics used assaulting a prepared position; Havens will have a section on preparing a position and defending it.  I haven't read the MS, but I assume that Traders will have ambush and counter-ambush techniques.  I can't think of a single other RPG that mentions the difference between plunging and grazing fire and the importance of setting up interlocking fields of fire.  That's what makes it military

However, I will conceed that YotZ is primarily a survival horror game with a military bias and it's a sourcebook for d20 Modern rather than a game in it's own right, but if you play through Hold At All Costs: One by mission seven you'll almost be able to smell the mixture of fear, sweat, blood, cordite and tabasco sauce* that fills a Blackhawk after a Ranger operation

Incidentally, Tim has talked about writing up a Twilight 2000 campaign he once ran for YotZ

*"Ranger speed" is a mixture of caffeine powder and tabasco sauce, taken nasally.  It's these little details that let you know that Tim's a vet

original Recon from RPG publishers (They used a soviet RPG for their logo-very 80's) we played this game every friday night when I was in the army. our 1st SGt. would even sit in with us just to listen to the game. we even added fantasy elements to it when our squad wnet into an old temple looking for VC- bad idea.

Spycraft 2.0

Can't think of another I'd particularly want to play without dipping into the SF genre stuff. (Traveller mercenary games were always great.)

Revised Recon: The first military RPG I played and I loved it. Haven't seen it around in a while, but I'd pick it up if I did. If only to see if the love was still there

Delta Force: This one I do still have. It hasn't aged well, but it's full-on military (special forces) action.

Top Secret/S.I. Commando supplement: This one supplement added so much to Top Secret/S.I. that it wasn't just used in our military games, but everything we ran for Top Secret/S.I.

Spycraft 1.0 U.S. Militaries, World Militaries, and Battlegrounds supplements: But I'm biased because I wrote for World Militaries and was a consultant on the other two

Sorry, haven't got a number 5...

Hastur, thanks for the YotZ info, I see now why you included it and that does make sense.  Cool.

Actually... the old LUG Star Trek Game was pretty good on military things.  It had Trek's career structure but you could go off and get special tactical training and such.

I also liked the original Prime Directive's take on the military side of Star Fleet by having the group play a specially trained away team and you'd spend quite a bit of your time engaging in in-ship politics as you tried to get better equipment for yourself and had to find a niche within the ship.

Recon was (and still is) a great, great game.

top 5 military Games written by someone else
1. Twilight 2000/Merc 2000 (bullet counting goodness)

2. Delta Force (so crunchy it broke my boots)

3. Recon (Just Another Fucking Ambush)

4. FASA Star Trek RPG. (Take that Klingon dogs!)

5. Classic Traveller. (shotguns in spaaaaaaace!!!!!!!)