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I've just started running Cyberpunk (the Red rules) for the first time ever. I'm loving the ruleset overall, but a lot of the detail seems pretty rough & in need of tinkering. Any advice for running Cyberpunk? I do have Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads but haven't read over it recently.
Roll20 site https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/16712626/cyberpunk-getting-paid (https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/16712626/cyberpunk-getting-paid)

Quote from: S'mon on February 15, 2024, 02:18:30 PM
I've just started running Cyberpunk (the Red rules) for the first time ever. I'm loving the ruleset overall, but a lot of the detail seems pretty rough & in need of tinkering. Any advice for running Cyberpunk? I do have Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads but haven't read over it recently.
Roll20 site https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/16712626/cyberpunk-getting-paid (https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/16712626/cyberpunk-getting-paid)

My first recommendation would be drop RED in favor of 2020 and then use Data Fortress Interlock Unlimited house rules.  You can, in fact, just use Interlock Unlimited without owning the 2020 core book but I think it's better to use the core mostly and tweak with a few rules from IU. 
https://kupdf.net/download/interlock-unlimited_58fe8872dc0d602413959ed8_pdf
http://datafortress2020.com/InterlockUnlimited.html

Second, do a session of doing Danger Room combat until everyone feels comfortable with the combat rules. 

Third, drop the cyber psychosis rules, limit every player to one cybernetic implant at PC creation, and multiply cybernetics prices by 20.  This will level out that nonsense and keep the game fun.

Fourth, Dump the netrunning rules.  Nobody has a decent set of rules.  Either make hacking a lock picking type skill or make netrunning an an all party activity.  Neon City Overdrive - The Grid is the best book for this I have seen.  Change the decker into a electronic warfare specialist.  Look up hacker tools like the Flipper and the Pineapple for inspiration.

PM me if you want a more in depth consultation on running a good cyberpunk game.

In terms of rules, I'm sticking with Red, with some weapons etc from CP2020, and my own timeline, though set in Night City it's "Somewhere in the 21st Century" and PCs still upload videos to Youtube. Red's netrunning rules seem vastly superior to CP 2020 but I'm still banning Netrunner PCs for now, until I have time to go through them thoroughly. Only allowing the Pregen PC stat blocks (with a bit of tweaking), so very limited cyberware at start. One player dropped right away when I asked why he had 65 hp.  ;D
Have you played Red? The combat rules seem much better than 2020, I ran a couple fights first session and it worked great. But I'm limiting armor, in the rules everyone wears a helmet  ;D
There are definitely problems with Red but it's all presentation or stuff I can houserule, the core chassis seems very solid to me, a very nice streamlining of 2020.

Watch Ghost in the Shell (all of the anime) and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners, that will go a long way to understand the vibe of the genre and setting.

Quote from: jeff37923 on February 15, 2024, 04:22:45 PM
Watch Ghost in the Shell (all of the anime) and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners, that will go a long way to understand the vibe of the genre and setting.

I'd instead recommend the movies Bladerunner, Johnny Mnemonic, and Nemesis. But I'm very old school with the version of Cyberpunk I dig.

To really get into the mindset I recommend replacing a limb with one made of Lego, moving into a dangerous slum, and subsist on a diet of soy and rotgut alcohol.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 15, 2024, 04:59:21 PM
To really get into the mindset I recommend replacing a limb with one made of Lego, moving into a dangerous slum, and subsist on a diet of soy and rotgut alcohol.

Kek

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 15, 2024, 04:56:16 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on February 15, 2024, 04:22:45 PM
Watch Ghost in the Shell (all of the anime) and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners, that will go a long way to understand the vibe of the genre and setting.

I'd instead recommend ...Johnny Mnemonic...

You fiend!

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy on February 15, 2024, 05:53:24 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 15, 2024, 04:56:16 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on February 15, 2024, 04:22:45 PM
Watch Ghost in the Shell (all of the anime) and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners, that will go a long way to understand the vibe of the genre and setting.

I'd instead recommend ...Johnny Mnemonic...

You fiend!

Look, neither Johnny Mnemonic nor Nemesis are great cinema, but they are the only movies that represent Cyberpunk as shown in Cyberpunk 2020/Shadowrun.

I remembered seeing (yesterday, in a discussion here from 2016 or so) that Mike Pondsmith said he wanted it to play like Streets of Fire, a film I love - Dieselpunk not Cyberpunk, but the 'heightened reality' feel combined with the romance & sense of alienation from the artificial set and being 'Another Time, Another Place' is spot on for what I'm going for. I found this awesome video:

Quote from: jeff37923 on February 15, 2024, 04:22:45 PM
Watch Ghost in the Shell (all of the anime) and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners, that will go a long way to understand the vibe of the genre and setting.

Thanks, I'll try to watch those.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 15, 2024, 04:56:16 PM
I'd instead recommend the movies Bladerunner, Johnny Mnemonic, and Nemesis. But I'm very old school with the version of Cyberpunk I dig.

I love Bladerunner ofc! I've read Gibson's books but don't think I've seen Johnny Mnemonic film, and never heard of Nemesis (except Nemesis the Warlock)  ;D

I'm going for a sandbox game as usual, railroads bore me to tears. I noticed that the purported Downtime 'Hustling' rules actually appear to be a fantastic sandbox generator. Combined with occasional rolls on the encounter tables. It's actually amazing how much support it (both 2020 and Red , they seem identical) has for sandbox play.

I think NPCs are going to be key, so I've been making a lot of them, allies enemies and could-be-eithers. Again the game has a ton of characters already supplied (though not statted in Red, unlike 2020). I kinda forgot how awesome '80s games could be in GM support.

Interface Red Vol 3 reintroduces the Full Body Conversions from the old Chromebooks. It's due out sometime in POD later this month,

Get Cities Without Number by Kevin Crawford. It's specifically designed to do sandbox cyberpunk gaming. 

Also look for a document called Augmented Reality. I think it's free/pwyw on drivethrurpg. It's a cyberpunk setting generator.

Quote from: S'mon on February 15, 2024, 02:18:30 PM
I've just started running Cyberpunk (the Red rules) for the first time ever. I'm loving the ruleset overall, but a lot of the detail seems pretty rough & in need of tinkering. Any advice for running Cyberpunk? I do have Listen Up You Primitive Screwheads but haven't read over it recently.
Roll20 site https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/16712626/cyberpunk-getting-paid (https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/details/16712626/cyberpunk-getting-paid)

Something that I found made the game pretty fun and helped with the sandbox style of game was keeping track of factions and character backgrounds. Figure out who the big players are and track the party's relationship with them on a piece of paper. Do the same for individuals the players are involved with.

So for example, if you have a character who had a tragic relationship with a woman years ago, use that at some point. Not right away, but bring it up. Maybe she's a rival now, maybe she wants to hook up again but she's got it in with a gang, etc. I find it's fun to attach the players to a gang or group so the gang's problems become the player's problems.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 15, 2024, 06:49:42 PM
Something that I found made the game pretty fun and helped with the sandbox style of game was keeping track of factions and character backgrounds. Figure out who the big players are and track the party's relationship with them on a piece of paper. Do the same for individuals the players are involved with.

So for example, if you have a character who had a tragic relationship with a woman years ago, use that at some point. Not right away, but bring it up. Maybe she's a rival now, maybe she wants to hook up again but she's got it in with a gang, etc. I find it's fun to attach the players to a gang or group so the gang's problems become the player's problems.

Thanks, that seems good advice. My D&D sandboxes rarely involve PC's pre-game lives, but that's an important part of this and other Noir genres I shouldn't overlook. In Streets of Fire Cody and Ellen Aim's past is a big plot driver. That Diane Lane (Ellen Aim) was 19 at the time just contributed to that heightened reality - or unnerving - feel.  ;D

My players have rolled their Lifepaths, but nothing much grabbed me yet. I should look at them again and do some editing.

Re factions, having a Media PC in the group has been brilliant. One session in and his video uploads https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/11794012/in-the-know have already got the Red Chrome Legion and a corrupt gang of Dirty Cops hating his guts and determined to kill him.  ;D

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 15, 2024, 06:49:42 PM
So for example, if you have a character who had a tragic relationship with a woman years ago, use that at some point. Not right away, but bring it up. Maybe she's a rival now, maybe she wants to hook up again but she's got it in with a gang, etc. I find it's fun to attach the players to a gang or group so the gang's problems become the player's problems.

Actually, that's awesome, cheers.  8) The PCs currently have a wounded female Red Chrome Legion Ganger tied up in the boot of their car.  ;D Now I want to make her the ex GF of the new Lawman PC...

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 15, 2024, 06:23:17 PM

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy on February 15, 2024, 05:53:24 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 15, 2024, 04:56:16 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on February 15, 2024, 04:22:45 PM
Watch Ghost in the Shell (all of the anime) and Cyberpunk: Edgerunners, that will go a long way to understand the vibe of the genre and setting.

I'd instead recommend ...Johnny Mnemonic...

You fiend!

Look, neither Johnny Mnemonic nor Nemesis are great cinema, but they are the only movies that represent Cyberpunk as shown in Cyberpunk 2020/Shadowrun.

Johnny Mnemonic is THE Cyberpunk 2020 movie, IMO. It's got a cyberpsycho, street punks, a fixer, computer hacking, corporate shenanigans, an uploaded human conciousness, and a plot revolving around a guy who sacrificed a chunk of his brain and memories in order to be a better data courier.

It's not a great film, but it's not that bad, and has one of my favorite meltdowns...

Adventures written for Traveller are good for Cyberpunk as well.  There's a lot of the same kind of thing where the PCs are independent contractors, therefore expendable, therefore likely to get in over their heads in a fun way.  Obviously, you'll have to do some conversion and not every adventure will fit the party.

Don't  :P.

I've never read the Red rules, and I found 2020 to be one of the more unwieldy systems I've ever tried to run, so I can't give rules advice. For more constructive advice:

I'll piggyback a bit on the brewing argument about inspirations and say that it can be quite important to be clear on which kind of cyberpunk you're running. The hyperdysfunctional, gritty neo-noir, style-over-substance branch of cyberpunk that you get in the likes of Blade Runner, Akira, or Judge Dredd is very different from the sleek, iphone-future, high concept stuff that you get in Neuromancer, Ghost in the Shell: SAC, Paprika and similar. If some of your players expect one and others the other, it can create problems. The Cyberpunk game setting adheres much more to the former, but it can do either.

Assuming you're going with the gritty street-level version of the genre, I'll make an anime inspiration recommendation most people probably wouldn't: Black Lagoon. Not strictly cyberpunk, but it nails the whole "modern mercenaries" vibe and could probably give you a fair few adventure ideas.

When I ran my Cyberpunk campaign, I set the PCs up as a private detective agency, which worked well. It's a good format for episodic campaigns, gives you an excuse to interact with all levels of society, and you can change from case to case how much you want to lean into either the neo-noir or hard sci-fi elements of the setting.

Quote from: ForgottenF on February 15, 2024, 11:50:50 PM
Don't  :P.

I've never read the Red rules, and I found 2020 to be one of the more unwieldy systems I've ever tried to run, so I can't give rules advice. For more constructive advice:

I'll piggyback a bit on the brewing argument about inspirations and say that it can be quite important to be clear on which kind of cyberpunk you're running. The hyperdysfunctional, gritty neo-noir, style-over-substance branch of cyberpunk that you get in the likes of Blade Runner, Akira, or Judge Dredd is very different from the sleek, iphone-future, high concept stuff that you get in Neuromancer, Ghost in the Shell: SAC, Paprika and similar. If some of your players expect one and others the other, it can create problems. The Cyberpunk game setting adheres much more to the former, but it can do either.

Assuming you're going with the gritty street-level version of the genre, I'll make an anime inspiration recommendation most people probably wouldn't: Black Lagoon. Not strictly cyberpunk, but it nails the whole "modern mercenaries" vibe and could probably give you a fair few adventure ideas.

When I ran my Cyberpunk campaign, I set the PCs up as a private detective agency, which worked well. It's a good format for episodic campaigns, gives you an excuse to interact with all levels of society, and you can change from case to case how much you want to lean into either the neo-noir or hard sci-fi elements of the setting.

Thanks. I'm going for Noir, but not hyper dysfunctional, not the Karl Urban Dredd where the 'good guys' execute surrendering Perps. Cute NPCs may randomly get their heads blown off, but it's not a Crapsack World. "The last bird died in 2003" was a joke. The environment isn't in great shape, but there are still trees and pigeons and stuff. You only need an NBC mask in the Hot Zone. My art inspiration is more vitalist '80s CP 2020 than CP Red's depressed "Current Year" vibe.  Neuromancer, but seen from Street level; Case and Molly would be Rank 8+ characters, not starting Rank 4 types. There may even be a bit of Streets of Fire's 1950s-style emphasis on the indomitable human spirit - Robocop has a bit of that too. Light in the Darkness, not just Grimdark.

I agree about CP 2020 being unwieldy, but CP Red actually does a great job streamlining the core system. It desperately needs an editor though.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on February 15, 2024, 06:44:19 PM
Interface Red Vol 3 reintroduces the Full Body Conversions from the old Chromebooks. It's due out sometime in POD later this month,

I might get it, but I'm taking a less-is-more approach to Cyberware, Full Body Conversions do exist but are rare, mostly encountered as Cyberpsychos. Conversely a Red update of Maximum Metal would be cool.

Quote from: S'mon on February 16, 2024, 05:29:03 AM...I'm taking a less-is-more approach to Cyberware...

BLASPHEMY!
(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/d35/79a/583ca2349d90138102f7301080309c7047-31-johnnymnemonic.h403.jpg)

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 16, 2024, 06:07:26 AM

Quote from: S'mon on February 16, 2024, 05:29:03 AM...I'm taking a less-is-more approach to Cyberware...

BLASPHEMY!
(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/d35/79a/583ca2349d90138102f7301080309c7047-31-johnnymnemonic.h403.jpg)

;D I mean, like Ripperclaws and Cosmetics are pretty common (Elf Ears and Anime Biosculpts are currently in fashion). But it's not a Transhumanist setting. I want to keep it relatable.

Quote from: S'mon on February 15, 2024, 07:01:35 PM

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 15, 2024, 06:49:42 PM
So for example, if you have a character who had a tragic relationship with a woman years ago, use that at some point. Not right away, but bring it up. Maybe she's a rival now, maybe she wants to hook up again but she's got it in with a gang, etc. I find it's fun to attach the players to a gang or group so the gang's problems become the player's problems.

Actually, that's awesome, cheers.  8) The PCs currently have a wounded female Red Chrome Legion Ganger tied up in the boot of their car.  ;D Now I want to make her the ex GF of the new Lawman PC...

Hell yeah, that's the stuff right there that can kick off another adventure! Cyberpunk was a blast to run because of scenarios like this, and more often than not it was the little random side stuff the players end up focusing on that keeps them interested in surviving session to session. I mean sure, the party has been hired to find some stolen chrome, but what if the guy that stole it is one of PC's brothers?

Where to start?

So based on your criteria - Less is More (Cyberware), Noir, CPRed with CP2020 stylish 80's tones...

1) Keep the characters hungry for credits. This should be easy because while they might be street-poor, even if they're making decent money if they have real jobs, nickel-and-diming them with costs: food, rent, shakedowns, muggings, having their "homes" broken into, power-outages, shortages of food resources, etc. should be motivators to make money and therefore be open to Edgerunning gigs.

2) Desperate, but not necessarily TOO desperate. I don't say Cyberware is rare, per se, I enforce that some types of cyberware are highly regulated. Bioware? That's for some fancy-dan Euro trash that living in the clouds. This doesn't mean that a shipment might fall off a truck somewhere - and act as a MacGuffin for some enterprising Fixer to hire the the PC's to nab it (for him not them). Cyberware should be priced by rarity AND availability based on your locality. Your players should hear about cool upgrades, and you should make them work for it.

3) Keep it local. One of the big things about Cyberpunk is establishing the niche in which the PC's operate - whether it's the building and neighborhood in which they live, the corporate high-rise they've been been given a company flat in, you need to flesh out their local sandbox with NPC's and "issues" appropriate to the tone and themes you're gonna play with (at the start).

4) Crime pays. The Local Fixer(s) is a must. Decide what these NPC's specialize in - because those are the missions that the PC's are going to help maintain. And if the Fixer branches out and the PC's are reliable performers, they will rise too. Decide what the Fixer's main roadblocks are: local gangs, rival Fixers, Corporate interests, logistical chokepoints in their distribution chains etc. The criminal ecosphere is the bread and butter of what Edgerunners live for, I mean they don't have real jobs, right?

5) Real Jobs. Okay so they might have real jobs. Well in Cyberpunk real jobs just means you're doing crimes under the cover of corporate authority. Think of all the dirty interests in corrupt companies today, and magnify it, and let the PC's do the dirty work. Politician trying to push legislation locally that will disrupt some Company project? The PC's might be hired as consultants (if they're not officially on the payroll) to lean on him. Of course that politician is sponsored by corporate rivals... No politician *actually* works for the people after all. PC's should be enticed to work for The Man - that means clean housing in the corp-zone (potentially), sponsorship? Free gear? Corporate Fixers are real, or maybe it's just some Corpo that needs "discrete" muscle for his climb and the PC's fit the bill. Plausible deniability pays.

6) Romance. Yeah romance. Noir is nothing without the potential for love in an uncaring world. Cultivating real relationships should be HARD in CP. But it should happen in the face of violence and treachery. Because you don't really know who'se down with you until they prove it, right? When it happens, the PC's should try desperately to maintain those rare relationships - friend, lover or whatever. Of course it has to end bad. There is always the promise of riding off into the sunset... but it's always one bad decision from going sideways. Nothing underscores that like $$$ to stab you through the heart, or better tempting the PC with money/cyberware/drugs or whatever to do the backstabbing. Tie that romance off with a bow made of razorwire and strangle them with it.

7) The Law Won. You wanna fight the Law with big guns? Up to you. CP is/should be deadly. But if everyone wants to be a gunbunny give them what they want - they'll end up dead as doornails. Enforce the laws *brutally*. But enforce it SELECTIVELY. The Corps keep their zones clean. The local cops keep clean the sectors they're told to keep clean. The Combat Zone? Ain't no fucking cops in the CZ unless they're there to take some fools out, or pick up a person of interest - and that means anyone looking slideways at them while they're doing it, better not be you. Make NPC's within the areas of PC play known. OR conversely make them nameless/faceless enforcers to be feared. I'll do a little of both. Remember not all Johnny Law organizations are on the same side per se. Jurisdictions are generally well defined but interests will blur those lines. That's where Adventure calls! Corporate defector is outside Corporate controlled area? Might be a Corp Security specialists hooks up with the PC's needing their help to locate the target in the Hood! Entice the PC's! Make the NPC's as desperate as the PC's. Just contextualize it.

8) String it all together! Said Corp Security agent could lead to being a contact for the PCs! They might now have a means to up their status on the streets by leveraging that contact with their local Fixer - depending on the Corporation he works for, it might turn into a regular thing where the PC's now are a valued set of cogs to maintain some new illicit revenue stream. They'll have to protect their racket. They'll have to get enticed by other criminals who want in on it. They'll be attacked by rival corporate molls that want whatever the racket is to be stopped. And then there's the Cops. Never underestimate the Do-Gooder Cop that wants to "help" by putting your PC's down.

Create the eco-system around the PC's by selectively opening and closing gates of opportunity where their hunger drives them. Immerse them in the petty emotional triumphs and tragedies of just living in CP world. It's not about the cyber, or the guns, it's about the setting. Soak them in it.

Thanks, Tenbones! This is all gold! Saving this to my Cyberpunk folder!

Quote from: S'mon on February 16, 2024, 12:11:50 PM
Thanks, Tenbones! This is all gold! Saving this to my Cyberpunk folder!

So, yeah. There's a lot there to digest. I feel like Pondsmith just gave me a tutorial.  ;D I'm pleased to see I'm already doing some of these things, but there's a lot more to get a handle on. South Night City is coming along well as a nascent sandbox, an ex industrial area that IMC is the 'most marginal Combat Zone' in the city. Which means uncertainty. Everyone knows what the Old Combat Zone or Little China is like, who rules the streets (not the police). In South NC, is it the Cops? They rarely respond to calls, unless it's to stop a Boostergang assault on the University District. The Red Chrome Legion? Piranhas even?  None of the gangs really have the numbers to rule the streets.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.d20.io/images/380190029/gdAMUocdvYRq_ycSTVzHcA/med.png?1707891049)

There have already been some stellar recommendations made here! I'll add a bit of my favorite stuff.

I recommend reading:

"Running Black" and "Shift Tense" by Patrick Todoroff. This guy writes cyberpunk with a couple of interesting Christian characters in the mix. It made me think a bit about ways to shake up the traditional high tech / low life paradigm.

Additionally, "Burning Chrome", "Neuromancer", "Count Zero", and "Mona Lisa Overdrive" by William Gibson. To me, these are sacred foundational texts of the genre. Especially the titular "Burning Chrome" in that anthology book, which is basically a prequel to kick off Neuromancer. "Johnny Mnemonic" is in that anthology also, and while the movie is vastly different, the movie is still fun to watch.

Also try to pick up a copy of R. Talsorian's "Edge of the Sword Vol. 1 - Compendium of Modern Firearms". I found that particularly useful for the weapons, but also to help me theorycraft and extrapolate the evolution of the weapons "20 minutes into the future".

That reminds me. Since you feature Media characters in your game, also check out the old "Max Headroom" TV show from the '80s. Also google-fu for the UK pilot which is better than the US pilot episode IMHO.

If you want to add any Lovecraftian elements, Chaosium's "Eldritch Chrome" anthology has some interesting ideas, and GURPS Cthulhupunk also has you covered there.

Edit to add: Since some folks mentioned "Blade Runner" and "Streets of Fire", you might look at the "A.D. Police", "Bubblegum Crisis" and "Bubblegum Crash" anime works from '87-'91 (not the A.D. Police - Protect and Serve" and "Bubblegum Crisis 2040" reboots from '99 or so, although they aren't terrible). They were heavily inspired by the aforementioned films and contain numerous easter eggs nodding to them. R. Talsorian even made an RPG for those '87-'91 animes with Cyberpunk 2020 / Fuzion system conversion rules so you could mix the two with relative ease.

Happy Cyberpunk gaming!

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on February 16, 2024, 09:14:45 AM
Hell yeah, that's the stuff right there that can kick off another adventure!

Lawman Johnson's player loved it, and as it happens, the connection might just save his life... and the rest of the party. Good thing Anson the Media just released her from the car boot.  ;D Still we'll see if Johnson picks up her phone call, he's a little...distracted... right now (we're doing some PBP between live sessions).

A sandbox cyberpunk game...hmmm...
Now you got me thinking about how awesome that would be.
Dammit! There's so many genres I want to GM/DM, but I'm only one guy....

question: it probably decades since I've played Cyberpunk, but what is the beef against Cyberpunk Red rules? Are they that bad?

Quote from: blackstone on February 16, 2024, 02:11:52 PM
A sandbox cyberpunk game...hmmm...
Now you got me thinking about how awesome that would be.
Dammit! There's so many genres I want to GM/DM, but I'm only one guy....

question: it probably decades since I've played Cyberpunk, but what is the beef against Cyberpunk Red rules? Are they that bad?

Seth Sorkowsky did a very fair critical review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qREqzlz0iDA
Basically, the refined core game engine is great, but the actual published game's presentation verges on terribad. Connected (important) rules are often hundreds of pages apart.

Edit: The worldbuilding is almost laughable, but that was pretty much true of 1e/2013 and 2020 too. I just scrub all that, using it only for inspirations and vague references. The heart of the game is very much the here and now, not nerdy history-building.

Cities Without Number looks pretty good. going to check out the free version.

any thoughts?

Quote from: blackstone on February 16, 2024, 03:19:40 PM
Cities Without Number looks pretty good. going to check out the free version.

any thoughts?

I did a review of it here: https://www.therpgsite.com/reviews/badapple-reviews-cyberpunk-games/msg1267417/#msg1267417

I like the random tables to fill out a setting but I think it's a bit over hyped.  If you want a d20 based cyberpunk game then I strongly recommend taking a look at Neon Blood.

Sandbox Cyberpunk? Is there any other way to do it? LOL. No seriously, I sandbox everything, so it's a given for me...

Who Rules the Streets in South Night City?
Post-2020 it looks like it's a free-for-all. After the events of Arasaka Nuke incident, tens of thousands of survivors flooded into South Night City. What specific gangs are there - TECHNICALLY are up to you. There are a few known locales in CPR that mention a host of gangs that control those specific businesses and locales. They're up to you effectively. Not the zones adjacent to South Night City are Chinatown and the Old Combat Zone. The borders of these zones have moved though many of the points of interest that remain intact, are still there, just in "new zones".

In CP2020 I hade corridors of limited control from the refineries and docks. Think about it - Petrochem is a major player. While they're not interested in policing the edges of the Combat Zone, they're definitely interested in protecting their logistics channels and products. That means they have paid security to guard their shipments to and from the docks/refineries. And they likely are paying local gangs to keep their particular cargo "off limits". Likely, they're also paying these fuckheads to muckup Petrochem enemies. I can see scenarios like:

• Petrochem Corps trying to move up the company ladder interfacing with the Blood Razors (top booster gang in NC) to poach from competitors. Of course the Blood Razors might just kill the guy for fun. Razorball is the sport of kings in the Combat Zone after all.
• Organized Crime from China town introduces a smuggling operation on the backs of small import/exporters in the Docks. This runs afoul of Petrochem, gangs and all sorts of shit. PC's could make a name/fortune playing the different sides of an escalating conflict.
• The Golden Knights start to clean-up this side of the CZ. Do the PC's help? Maybe one of the PC's is ex-military and knows someone in the GK's?
• Let get Weird! A mutant animal (Petrochem baby!)/science experiment has gotten loose in the sewers below South NC. It's randomly killing the shit out of people - dangerous people, innocent people. If you do it slow, it'll get all the different gangs, corps, normies riled up. The OBVIOUS conclusion is it's a Cyberpsycho Serial Killer... right? Wait till they find out what it *really* is. Go crazy.
• Escape from CZ! A VIP from a foreign nation is trying to smuggle themselves into NoCal. A boostergang attacks the smugglers and now has the VIP hostage... The PC's are hired by <X> to find them and bring them in alive. OR they're hired to eliminate the VIP by government agents of the host country the VIP was fleeing from. The possibilities *after* this are endless. Contacts/enemies to be made!
• Home Shit Home - One of more PC's grew up in one of the shitty apartment buildings in SNC. Boostergang <X> has taken up residence there on the bottom floor. They're doing 1-3 Cooking/selling Drugs, 4-5 starting a prostitution ring, 6-7 using it as a staging area to bring the pain on their rivals, 8-9 operating a body-bank, 10 - something *really* fucking weird: Communing with a rogue AI who is starting their own cult, Discovering God and trying to turn over a new leaf... but the leader is a cyberpscyho and wants to do it with medieval methods, gang is in over their heads they have a Macguffin That Should Not Be and the fucking Angels are after them (from Orbit).
• Tales of the Forlorn Hope! -South NC is the home of the Forlorn Hope. Go pick up a copy and run those adventures and make up new ones. Introduce the Forlorn Hope to your PC's and make it their hangout.

I could go on and on.

BOOKREADING -  Go read Burning Chrome! I also recommend anything from Rudy Rucker, Bruce Sterling, and Stephen Barne's Streetlethal series!

I was talking to Lisa and Mike Pondsmith to do a book for CPRed (before the rules were codified) about what's outside of NC. I wanted to do a book which would emphasize Nomad Culture and give me an excuse to create "Road Warrior" rules for vehicles and adventures along shipping routes from CA to TX, including outlines for major Nomad families and gangs in the "Wasteland"...

It fell through when they decided to let Cody do CPR. /shrug. Maybe someday.

Or maybe I'll just make my own Autoduel/Cyberpunk inspired game.

I particularly like the Mutant Animal (probably a Biotechnica creation in RED) and Home Shit Home ideas. HSH reminds me of my years on the Safer Neighbourhoods Panel working to clean up the Hazelhurst Estate!

Mutant Animal - you can GO WILD with this concept. Biotechnica science experiment: maybe a predatory animal for overseas conflict? Mutant attack dog? They've recoded its DNA at the seed-level. Pump that fucker full of nanotech AND make it so that it passes those nanites on to its children. So it's going around killing all other male dogs and impregnating female dogs in the CZ. If you slow-cook the killings, it'll look like a serial killer/cannibal is on the loose. Let the PC's find the carcasses of dogs and cats all over the place. They'll notice all the dogs are males on an Awareness check. The cats? Red Herring, the mutant is killing the cats and eating them (and any other varmint) as targets of opportunity.

Meanwhile you dot your sessions with constant odd tales of people getting killed horribly. You can use all of these deaths as Red Herrings - maybe they're all from the same gang... at first. Then a local. Then a prostitute. Then a drug-dealer. Then another random gang-member. You can create the logic of the dog as you see fit (Maybe it remembers people by scent, or behavior and it targets people of that kind of behavior. Remember it's a science-experiment, so Biotechnica might have it encoded to be sensitive to a type of gun oil, which coincidentally might be the same kind as shipment of Chinese FN-RAL knockoffs that fell into the hands of the local gangs. And the Dog, acting on instincts, is hunting them down. All the other targets are targets of opportunity or "bugs" in the system.

To ramp this up - CSWAT gets called in to hunt a potential Cyberpsycho which should make everyone nervous... especially when CSWAT operatives start dying too.

The REAL nasty shit comes when you've breadcrumbed these odd "things" for some time in your game, and the pregnant female dogs of the neighborhood start giving birth...

A side-subplot might be the team of Biotechnica employees struggling with the situation because it's gotten out of their control and now THEY are trying to hide the truth while trying to kill/capture the dog. Maybe people on their own team have different agendas?

Quote from: tenbones on February 16, 2024, 04:23:31 PM
Or maybe I'll just make my own Autoduel/Cyberpunk inspired game.

Yes! A day-one buy for me.

Ref mutant critters, I recommend watching the movie "Mimic" by Guillermo Del Toro. I prefer the theatrical release to the director's cut.

Quote from: tenbones on February 16, 2024, 04:58:18 PM

To ramp this up - CSWAT gets called in to hunt a potential Cyberpsycho which should make everyone nervous... especially when CSWAT operatives start dying too.

Dammit, you had me at CSWAT.

A couple of mange recommendations:
Restore World
Saturn Apartments
Blame

Quote from: BadApple on February 16, 2024, 08:05:45 PM
A couple of mange recommendations:
Restore World
Saturn Apartments
Blame

Blame was pretty intense.

Quote from: blackstone on February 16, 2024, 03:19:40 PM
Cities Without Number looks pretty good. going to check out the free version.

any thoughts?

CWN is pretty decent; I'm a Shadowrun guy, so take that into consideration, but Kevin Crawford always does a good job overall. It's at least an excellent resource, and his system is dead-ass easy as fuck to understand and use, which is a major plus.

I can also see tenbones posted, and he's like the cyberpunk guru, but I will say this.. Autoduel/Car Wars is probably the more realistic inevitability. As someone who watched Road Warrior five hundred times as a kid, I certainly hope so.

Just Based on my experience with the Witcher and CP Red quickstart games...


Use the Artesia RPG fumble rule:

A fumble only occurs when you reduce the Stat+Skill modifier total to 0 or less. So a PC has to get rather unlucky, or be using a low skill/Stat combo to regularly fumble.

Get rid of the opposed roll for Melee and brawling combat:

Just give everyone the average roll for the exploding d10: 6. Then just have the attacker roll against a static defense of the appropriate Stat+Skill+6. Speeds up combat by getting rid of most opposed rolls.


FWIW: There is at least one Interlock Fuzion variant out there that uses a d12 instead of the d10 and changes nothing else. (Makes the swinginess go down a bit.)

Not cyberpunk, but Autoduel/Car Wars?

Interstate. Fucking. '76.

More on-topic. Straight human Cyberpunk, or fantasy Shadowrun?

Shadowrun was probably my third RPG after D&D and Call of Cthulhu, so I'm always going to have a soft spot for that, but my taste has significantly moved towards straight human stuff.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 16, 2024, 10:42:53 PM
Just Based on my experience with the Witcher and CP Red quickstart games...


Use the Artesia RPG fumble rule:

A fumble only occurs when you reduce the Stat+Skill modifier total to 0 or less. So a PC has to get rather unlucky, or be using a low skill/Stat combo to regularly fumble.

Get rid of the opposed roll for Melee and brawling combat:

Just give everyone the average roll for the exploding d10: 6. Then just have the attacker roll against a static defense of the appropriate Stat+Skill+6. Speeds up combat by getting rid of most opposed rolls.


FWIW: There is at least one Interlock Fuzion variant out there that uses a d12 instead of the d10 and changes nothing else. (Makes the swinginess go down a bit.)

The CP Red fights I ran in first session, I thought the task resolution worked really well. A 1 is just a -d10 to roll, a 10 a +d10; you can still succeed when rolling a 1 - and Solos have an option to ignore a one. Cheap crappy guns jam on a 1 but just need an Action to clear, which seems fine to me. I remember in the UK army reserve our SA80/L85 service rifle would jam if you looked at it funny, and cheap gun probably implies poor maintenance too.

Gunfights are almost always against a static target number, as only extremely high REF characters can dodge ranged attacks - I'd probably allow someone to hold their Action to use it to dodge an attack. The rarer melee attacks use opposed rolls, which seemed to work great in play.

My criticisms are much more in the non-rule stuff, like every Pregen and every NPC wears a helmet despite how none of the non-Lawman art shows helmets, and it would look completely different and a bit silly - you're in a hot nightclub and everyone wears a helmet? In general statted NPCs & pregen PCs are over armoured, especially compared to their art, and given non-concealable Very Heavy Pistols. It feels like laziness to me, but is easily fixed.  I think no armour or 'leather' jacket, no helmet, and a medium or heavy pistol would be a lot more plausible. Similarly when I ran the Jumpstart adventure first encounter, 4 starting PCs vs 6 heavily armoured and elite-statted ambushers, the PCs were hugely outmatched. Which is fine, this is Cyberpunk, the game is rigged. BUT the scenario blithely assumes the PCs will kill or drive off their ambushers, and goes from there. The actual scenario outcome after a lot of combat rounds was one ambusher badly wounded, one PC killed, one PC badly wounded, one PC lightly wounded, and the three survivor PCs fleeing for their lives. A lot more in-genre than the assumed outcome, but it's notable the writers seemed to have no idea of this. And our pregen PC group was 2 x Solo, 1 Media, 1 Rockerboy, a pretty strong group.

I think there might be some significant rule differences between the Witcher and CPRed here.

I have the QS and core book for The Witcher, but just the QS for CPRed...

Quote from: S'mon on February 17, 2024, 03:13:41 AM
...
The CP Red fights I ran in first session, I thought the task resolution worked really well. A 1 is just a -d10 to roll, a 10 a +d10; you can still succeed when rolling a 1 ...

In the Witcher; Not unless your Stat+Skill are really high.

You roll a 1, then roll a d10 again, and subtract that number from your Stat+Skill total.
If you roll a 1, then a 10, you roll yet again (4) and subtract the 10+4 or 14 from your Stat+Skill total.

Did they lessen the effects of rolling a 1 in CPRed?

Quote from: S'mon on February 17, 2024, 03:13:41 AM
... The rarer melee attacks use opposed rolls, which seemed to work great in play.

If I ran the Witcher again where melee is far more common; I would eliminate the opposed roll because it has no mechanical benefit for the defender.

If the Attacker is successful in his attack, and rolls a crit; He does increased damage to the Defender, with the possibility of removing them from the fight outright.

If the Defender successfully defends, and rolls a crit: He gets nothing. Absolutely no additional benefit whatsoever. While still being subject to the results of the fumble roll tables...

Do the full rules for CPRed not do this for melee?

Quote from: S'mon on February 17, 2024, 03:13:41 AM
Similarly when I ran the Jumpstart adventure first encounter, 4 starting PCs vs 6 heavily armoured and elite-statted ambushers, the PCs were hugely outmatched. Which is fine, this is Cyberpunk, the game is rigged. BUT the scenario blithely assumes the PCs will kill or drive off their ambushers, and goes from there. The actual scenario outcome after a lot of combat rounds was one ambusher badly wounded, one PC killed, one PC badly wounded, one PC lightly wounded, and the three survivor PCs fleeing for their lives. A lot more in-genre than the assumed outcome, but it's notable the writers seemed to have no idea of this. And our pregen PC group was 2 x Solo, 1 Media, 1 Rockerboy, a pretty strong group.

IMHO; Their into adventures seem intentionally meant to be a bit meat grindery...

Similar result when I ran the CPRed Jumpstart adventure as well: One killed outright, one down but made their death save. Only two left standing, but really messed up.

Same for The Witcher QS adventure: Only two out of 4 PC's lived. And that only happened because they got a series of good rolls that turned the tide of the ambush that they walked into. Serious die swings in their favor.

This is not nessiccarially a bad thing. It drives home the lethality of the systems; which requires a different mindset from the players than some other RPG's.

Quote from: S'mon on February 15, 2024, 06:56:09 PMMy players have rolled their Lifepaths, but nothing much grabbed me yet. I should look at them again and do some editing.

I've gotten a ton of useful stuff mining lifepaths over the years.  Sure, you get the obvious friends and enemies, but be sure to chart out the timelines.  You'll almost always end up with spots where the PCs were in the same place at the same time, maybe on opposite sides even.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 17, 2024, 06:32:29 PM
If the Attacker is successful in his attack, and rolls a crit; He does increased damage to the Defender, with the possibility of removing them from the fight outright.

If the Defender successfully defends, and rolls a crit: He gets nothing. Absolutely no additional benefit whatsoever. While still being subject to the results of the fumble roll tables...

Do the full rules for CPRed not do this for melee?

AFAICS there is no extra damage for rolling a crit, and nothing beyond 'you fail' for rolling low to dodge or parry.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 17, 2024, 06:32:29 PM
If I ran the Witcher again where melee is far more common; I would eliminate the opposed roll because it has no mechanical benefit for the defender.

Yeah, I think an opposed roll is great for a dramatic "Shit Just Got Real!" moment, but peferably not as a routine thing in combat. So in Witcher melee attacks should probably be roll vs static DV. If missile attacks are rare then make THEM be the opposed checks. Like I remember watching Xena: Warrior Princess, tons of routine beat-up-the-mooks melee, but if someone aimed a crossbow at her it was a BIG DEAL.

Quote from: Almost_Useless on February 17, 2024, 06:55:55 PM
I've gotten a ton of useful stuff mining lifepaths over the years.  Sure, you get the obvious friends and enemies, but be sure to chart out the timelines.  You'll almost always end up with spots where the PCs were in the same place at the same time, maybe on opposite sides even.

I'm not seeing this yet. OTOH we've been making linkages between PCs ok - "OK, you served with Mover in the LatAm War..." "Oh yeah! Great guy! We had a great time!"  ;D

I was thinking about letting players control an allied NPC, who could also be played probably temporarily if the player's PC died. Maybe a Friend of the PC? Players wouldn't follow their lives when they're away from the group, but could control them in combat. We had some players drop out after session 1 (cold recruit off Roll20 usually has that) so I have their ex-PCs available too. I don't want to harm immersion though.  ???

Started another battle, using text chat and Roll20. The Dirty Cops tracked the PCs down to Nurse Sandra's apartment, but were warned by another nurse, Brandi, just in time - she was still in the hallway when the Dirty Cops arrived and grabbed her. The Cops initiated breaching tactics with a flashbang grenade followed by rifles on three-round-burst, but they were swiftly ambushed from behind from another apartment by one of their erstwhile colleagues, Lawman 'Bronze' Johnson, who unloaded on them full auto (10 round long burst) with his autorifle using my house rules adapted from Twilight 2000. He blew away two of them, and was lucky not to kill Brandi, which would have mortified him as he'd been having sex with her a couple minutes ago  ;D - he was the one sent Brandi to warn the others.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1206379862546452480/1208709031015878747/image.png?ex=65e44501&is=65d1d001&hm=300db60f76eef92c82f11c1cc60614ed0b3a330c0285a6f87d50c9a7bd333130&)

Overall I'm loving the visceral combat system, though it's certainly not super fast. The potential deadliness of every roll makes the crunch seem worthwhile. I finally rolled my first critical injury, a cop took a punctured lung from a pistol bullet penetrating his Kevlar, about a second before being blown away by a random rifle round from Johnson's full auto burst down the hallway.  ;D

After just over 1 combat round (3 seconds) one PC is lightly wounded from glancing hits to his Armorjack, while three Dirty Cops are dead or dying in the hallway and the remaining two are reconsidering their life choices.

Quote from: Brad on February 16, 2024, 08:29:31 PM
I can also see tenbones posted, and he's like the cyberpunk guru, but I will say this.. Autoduel/Car Wars is probably the more realistic inevitability. As someone who watched Road Warrior five hundred times as a kid, I certainly hope so.

One of the earliest things in CP2020 (actually I think it was from the original CP1e) - the implied Nomad culture *screams* Mad Max. Its pretty obvious that by CP2020 and the Home of the Brave source book clearly indicates, that the world outside of the major cities and their arcologies are dog-eat-dog An-Cap/Neo-Feudal regions where the only law is that of those with the most organized amount of guns... until the Corps or Government decide to show up for whatever reason... but even then it's not certain.

But what *has* to happen is goods have to move from one place to another. And that means hauling those goods requires protection, and people with balls to make that drive. I've maintained for years it's more plausible to have "Road Warrior" campaigns in this environment than the actual Road Warrior movies themselves. Mainly because the reasons why people live in the Wasteland is voluntary (for the most part), and not quite as bad as Mad Max flicks which implies the world is basically going tits-up, while chronically trying to give you hope it might not, to perpetuate the legends of Max.

In any case, since I sandbox exclusiverly, having your Edgerunners "lay low" and book out of town is a *superb* chance to introduce them to an entirely different corner of the Sandbox where different rules apply, scarcity is king, and loyalty matters (mostly) among the Nomads you'll end up running with. Politics are different and the lens by which you engage with the Cyberpunk world takes on new dynamics. Definitely a palate cleanser.

But that means you need good rules for vehicle combat so you can get your Mad Max on. I hybridized a lot of Road Striker rules from Mekton back in the day. Today? I'd probably do something lighter... maybe. I haven't given it enough thought.

I'm not a fan of the CPR rules. I understand *some* of the design decisions Cody made. I even like some them a lot (the Role cleanup is awesome). I'm not a fan *AT ALL* of removing the gear porn. CP is *about* crass commercialism and style over substance, but from a gaming perspective players like the style to come with a lot of substance to justify sporting it or going after it.

Wisdom00's Datafortress rules are *better*. But I think there is a lot of room for streamlining.

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM
I'm not a fan of the CPR rules. I understand *some* of the design decisions Cody made. I even like some them a lot (the Role cleanup is awesome). I'm not a fan *AT ALL* of removing the gear porn. CP is *about* crass commercialism and style over substance, but from a gaming perspective players like the style to come with a lot of substance to justify sporting it or going after it.

Have you read Black Chrome? I've only flipped through it at the FLGS, but it seems to have more gear porn.

@tenbones I looked over Tales from the Forlorn Hope - looks great, especially with 3/6 PCs being Solos! I decided to update the art  ;D https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/11802163/ - only the cute chicks so far  ;D

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM

Quote from: Brad on February 16, 2024, 08:29:31 PM
I can also see tenbones posted, and he's like the cyberpunk guru, but I will say this.. Autoduel/Car Wars is probably the more realistic inevitability. As someone who watched Road Warrior five hundred times as a kid, I certainly hope so.

One of the earliest things in CP2020 (actually I think it was from the original CP1e) - the implied Nomad culture *screams* Mad Max. Its pretty obvious that by CP2020 and the Home of the Brave source book clearly indicates, that the world outside of the major cities and their arcologies are dog-eat-dog An-Cap/Neo-Feudal regions where the only law is that of those with the most organized amount of guns... until the Corps or Government decide to show up for whatever reason... but even then it's not certain.

But what *has* to happen is goods have to move from one place to another. And that means hauling those goods requires protection, and people with balls to make that drive. I've maintained for years it's more plausible to have "Road Warrior" campaigns in this environment than the actual Road Warrior movies themselves. Mainly because the reasons why people live in the Wasteland is voluntary (for the most part), and not quite as bad as Mad Max flicks which implies the world is basically going tits-up, while chronically trying to give you hope it might not, to perpetuate the legends of Max.

In any case, since I sandbox exclusiverly, having your Edgerunners "lay low" and book out of town is a *superb* chance to introduce them to an entirely different corner of the Sandbox where different rules apply, scarcity is king, and loyalty matters (mostly) among the Nomads you'll end up running with. Politics are different and the lens by which you engage with the Cyberpunk world takes on new dynamics. Definitely a palate cleanser.

But that means you need good rules for vehicle combat so you can get your Mad Max on. I hybridized a lot of Road Striker rules from Mekton back in the day. Today? I'd probably do something lighter... maybe. I haven't given it enough thought.

I'm not a fan of the CPR rules. I understand *some* of the design decisions Cody made. I even like some them a lot (the Role cleanup is awesome). I'm not a fan *AT ALL* of removing the gear porn. CP is *about* crass commercialism and style over substance, but from a gaming perspective players like the style to come with a lot of substance to justify sporting it or going after it.

Wisdom00's Datafortress rules are *better*. But I think there is a lot of room for streamlining.

Great stuff again, fits my view of 'Flyover Country' though I'll be adding more Patriot Rsistance/Domestic Terrorists  ;D
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5b90baf2-bc48-4b5b-901a-55fdbe8b2c58 (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5b90baf2-bc48-4b5b-901a-55fdbe8b2c58)
I settled on 2064 for my starting year and to avoid detailing pre-2050 as that gives me 26 years before the real world catches up... timeline at https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/11802141/history-lesson (https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/11802141/history-lesson)

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 18, 2024, 06:24:12 PM
Have you read Black Chrome? I've only flipped through it at the FLGS, but it seems to have more gear porn.

I know about it, I haven't purchased it. It's on the list (albeit not high as I'm not currently running CP, but it'll happen).

Quote from: S'mon on February 19, 2024, 11:58:28 AM
@tenbones I looked over Tales from the Forlorn Hope - looks great, especially with 3/6 PCs being Solos! I decided to update the art  ;D https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/11802163/ - only the cute chicks so far  ;D

VERY cool!

Yeah Tales of the Forlorn hope is great fodder for your game. You can mine that for tons of value.

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM
One of the earliest things in CP2020 (actually I think it was from the original CP1e) - the implied Nomad culture *screams* Mad Max. Its pretty obvious that by CP2020 and the Home of the Brave source book clearly indicates, that the world outside of the major cities and their arcologies are dog-eat-dog An-Cap/Neo-Feudal regions where the only law is that of those with the most organized amount of guns... until the Corps or Government decide to show up for whatever reason... but even then it's not certain.

This is how I would explain it:

Whatever plague/war that caused people to be packed into walled megacities/arcologies, was not quite what people now think... (The world has actually long since recovered)

The immediate area visible around the walled megacity/sprawls is purposely kept in a state of desertification by various means.

The real truth is that the "outlands" are perfectly habitable. No different than today, if not better, as former cities have reverted to nature.

But it is much easier to control and exploit people if they are all kept in one place...

Hence the "Nomads". Most of the extremely violent and psychotic criminals are not actually executed. They are released into the wild...

Predatory Nomad gangs are allowed to exist to make the "outlands" a very dangerous place for people from the city. Rendering the countryside essentially uninhabitable for productive people as an additional method of control.

That is why the Corps, and especially the Government level anything larger than a Mad Max Bartertown/Thunderdome set-up. Especially if they see a Nomad settlement do anything resembling actual agriculture.

Ostensibly this is all done under the notion of "keeping the Nomad menace in check"; but it is more to prevent any one setting up a functional society that they do not control... (Such cleansings are typically followed by more criminal "executions".)

The nomads also tend to get airstriked if they go too far in certain directions in large numbers. (Gotta protect those cherry Gov/Corp 'paradise colonies' up North...)

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM
But what *has* to happen is goods have to move from one place to another. And that means hauling those goods requires protection, and people with balls to make that drive. I've maintained for years it's more plausible to have "Road Warrior" campaigns in this environment than the actual Road Warrior movies themselves. ...

Keeping with my earlier thoughts; this is done to keep word of how "Horrible" the outlands are fresh in the news cycles. (They could use military cargo planes for of all of it if they really wanted to, but bread and circuses...)

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM
But that means you need good rules for vehicle combat so you can get your Mad Max on. I hybridized a lot of Road Striker rules from Mekton back in the day. Today? I'd probably do something lighter... maybe. I haven't given it enough thought.

Have you looked at Atomic Highway RPG? A mad max inspired game with much less crunch that is designed to be fast playing.

It is a d6 system, but once one sees the design intent, rules can be replicated to other resolution methods.

Anyone familiar with the LowLife 2090 cyberpunk RPG?

Done by the same guy that did low fantasy gaming; it's an OSRish take on the Cyberpunk/Shadowrun theme...

I'm kinda looking at different options since me and my group kinda bounced off of CPRed.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 24, 2024, 03:55:21 AM
I'm kinda looking at different options since me and my group kinda bounced off of CPRed.

It's sad, I'm absolutely loving it, but I can absolutely understand people bouncing off it. I think the core system is first class, but I'm using a ton of CP:2020 for both gear & setting. I've started running Tales From the Forlorn Hope and it does indeed seem excellent.  8) We're playing Agency Job tomorrow, and I've just been getting A Hard Road To Go ready to run.

One weakness for me in CPR is the history/politics; CP2020 was naive even for 1990, and I really dislike CPR going for 'alternate timeline'. I've developed my own timeline, game is set in 2064 with the USA still united under the iron fist of President Elizabeth Kress (D), but facing widespread armed rebellion from the Pro-Freedom Resistance/Far Right Extremist Domestic Terrorists. I'm running Kress as a Hillary Clinton/Tulsi Gabbard mash-up (hate one, love one)  ;D and trying to keep the politics at a roughly Empire-vs-Stormcloaks sort of level.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.d20.io/images/381154887/zlK5NUARXhDoGpcZmUhRpQ/max.jpg?1708451894305)
CYBERPUNK: GETTING PAID

The campaign begins  11th February 2064.

US/World Timeline (more at https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/11802141/ )

2050 Elizabeth Kress (D) elected on a "Progress and Stability" manifesto, with a promise to end the Central American War.

2051 CentAm War spreads to South America and transitions into the LatAm Wars.

2053 Rumours that Arasaka Corporation has achieved AGI - Artificial General Intelligence.

2054 Kress re-elected following a Supreme Court judgement regarding claims of vote fraud.

2055 'Domestic Terrorist' insurgencies begin in the MidWest, Rockies, Texas, and parts of the South.

2056 Beginning of the Fourth Corporate War. Covert operations explode into a shooting war as Arasaka and Militech move front line troops into battle. The ensuing conflict involves operations all over the globe, with heavy combat in major cities worldwide.

2057 The 'Last War' and the Night City Nuke. Nuclear exchanges see widespread destruction across the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and the United Kingdom, and Russia. In the Pacific theatre China, the Koreas and Japan sustain the most damage. The US Pacific Fleet takes heavy losses, including three Supercarriers. Apart from Night City and the North Korean strike on San Diego, most nuclear strikes in the USA are confined to Rebel/Domestic Terrorist-held areas, notably Knoxville TN, and the Midwest, including Missouri.

2058 With the United States under Martial Law, Federal elections are cancelled "for the duration of the emergency"

2059-61 End of the 4th Corp War & the Last War. Over three years, pockets of fighting are quelled by the now-nationalised Militech and her allied (or vassal) national armies. In the USA, Militech forces flood the Midwest. The 'Domestic Terrorist Insurgency' transitions into guerilla warfare, the rebels no longer able to hold significant territories against the full might of Militech.

2064 Present Day

Night City Timeline

2044 Construction begins of Coronado City, a new planned city on the US West Coast, roughly midway between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

2047 Assassination of Coronado City founder Richard Night, believed to be by Mob interests. The city council votes to remain Coronado as Night City.

2047-50 Richard Night's Corporate allies take swift revenge on the Mob, rapidly cleansing the new city of Syndicate control, at the cost of expedient alliances with many of the Street gangs that formerly served the Mob. Arasaka Security Corporation is accused of the widespread extra-judicial execution of leading Mafia, Yak, and Triad gangsters. This greatly increases Arasaka's public popularity (and its share value).

2049 Creation of the Richard Night Memorial Park in The Glen.

2051 Following Corporate lobbying, Night City becomes a 'Free City' between the newly created States of Northern and Southern California.

2053 Silverhand Raid on Arasaka Tower. Creation of the Alt AGI.

2057 During the Last War, a nuke centred on Arasaka Tower devastates the Night City CBD. Federal investigation finds that Arasaka self detonated in a false flag op, and the Corporation is banned throughout the United States. Arasaka blames Militech, in a classic example of 'Fake News'.

2064 The United States remains in a State of Emergency under President Kress, currently in her fourth term. Night City plans to hold Mayoral elections this year, the first since the War. There is still dust from the Last War in the upper atmosphere causing brilliant red sunsets, hence Time of the Red.



Europe and the War
Despite EU claims, Europe is not in great shape following the Last War, either, so emigration to the bright lights of the USA remains strong. At least the French anti-missile system over Paris actually worked ...unlike London. Just fortunate the Russian nuclear MIRVs were mostly even less reliable than the British interceptors. Though they didn't all fail - but the Russian systems especially had a high fail rate, Chinese a bit better, North Korean even worse. US offensive systems were not fully deployed, but seemed to work relatively well, as you might expect considering their budget. Defensive were patchy.
In Europe, cities that did sustain Russian nuclear strikes include London, Warsaw and Frankfurt. Russia in return took numerous hits, including Moscow, Kaliningrad (now under Militech control), and St Petersburg.

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:01:06 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on February 24, 2024, 03:55:21 AM
I'm kinda looking at different options since me and my group kinda bounced off of CPRed.

It's sad, I'm absolutely loving it, but I can absolutely understand people bouncing off it. I think the core system is first class, but I'm using a ton of CP:2020 for both gear & setting. I've started running Tales From the Forlorn Hope and it does indeed seem excellent.  8) We're playing Agency Job tomorrow, and I've just been getting A Hard Road To Go ready to run.

One weakness for me in CPR is the history/politics; CP2020 was naive even for 1990, and I really dislike CPR going for 'alternate timeline'. I've developed my own timeline, game is set in 2064 with the USA still united under the iron fist of President Elizabeth Kress (D), but facing widespread armed rebellion from the Pro-Freedom Resistance/Far Right Extremist Domestic Terrorists. I'm running Kress as a Hillary Clinton/Tulsi Gabbard mash-up (hate one, love one)  ;D and trying to keep the politics at a roughly Empire-vs-Stormcloaks sort of level.

Red did get some things right though: getting rid of Arsaka really lets the setting breath, free of cheesy "Kill the Japs" missions at last. Merging Militech with the US govt (ok they did it really badly, but still) was excellent, creating a true Corporate State.  The big nuclear hole in the middle of Night City really says "You're Not in Kansas".

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:32:59 PM

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:01:06 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on February 24, 2024, 03:55:21 AM
I'm kinda looking at different options since me and my group kinda bounced off of CPRed.

It's sad, I'm absolutely loving it, but I can absolutely understand people bouncing off it. I think the core system is first class, but I'm using a ton of CP:2020 for both gear & setting. I've started running Tales From the Forlorn Hope and it does indeed seem excellent.  8) We're playing Agency Job tomorrow, and I've just been getting A Hard Road To Go ready to run.

One weakness for me in CPR is the history/politics; CP2020 was naive even for 1990, and I really dislike CPR going for 'alternate timeline'. I've developed my own timeline, game is set in 2064 with the USA still united under the iron fist of President Elizabeth Kress (D), but facing widespread armed rebellion from the Pro-Freedom Resistance/Far Right Extremist Domestic Terrorists. I'm running Kress as a Hillary Clinton/Tulsi Gabbard mash-up (hate one, love one)  ;D and trying to keep the politics at a roughly Empire-vs-Stormcloaks sort of level.

Red did get some things right though: getting rid of Arsaka really lets the setting breath, free of cheesy "Kill the Japs" missions at last.

Yeah, but Arasaka is/was a big part of the setting. Part of the appeal of 2020 and Red is the setting legacy for me. I view Arasaka as another megacorp that happens to be based in Japan and has a predominantly Japanese membership.
What makes Red's update of them palatable to me is the idea that they can be a rarer and more memorable encounter. "Arasaka? I thought they were gone?"

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 24, 2024, 04:48:00 PM
What makes Red's update of them palatable to me is the idea that they can be a rarer and more memorable encounter. "Arasaka? I thought they were gone?"

Yes, which is something I like a lot. I know when I ran (AD&D set in) Cyberpunk 2020, it was always about fighting Arasaka. And I don't really like the assumption that it's fine to kill people as long as they're wearing a security guard uniform. In running Agency Job, I had Kronos ask the PCs to please  NOT kill the Arasaka Lazarus Security Guards if possible, pointing out that they're just trying to make a living too.

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:01:06 PM
It's sad, I'm absolutely loving it, but I can absolutely understand people bouncing off it. I think the core system is first class, but I'm using a ton of CP:2020 for both gear & setting. ....

One of the issues my group and I had was that we felt the exploding d10 mechanic didn't really add anything to the resolution system that a d20, or more statistically something like a d16 would, other than re-rolls at least 20% of the time just to get to the same place.

Admittedly my group is an outlier, as we are system wonks that nitpick relentlessly.

CPRed and the Witcher also suffer from ridiculously long skill lists. (It vexes me.)

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:01:06 PM
One weakness for me in CPR is the history/politics; CP2020 was naive even for 1990, and I really dislike CPR going for 'alternate timeline'. I've developed my own timeline, game is set in 2064 with the USA still united under the iron fist of President Elizabeth Kress (D), but facing widespread armed rebellion from the Pro-Freedom Resistance/Far Right Extremist Domestic Terrorists. I'm running Kress as a Hillary Clinton/Tulsi Gabbard mash-up (hate one, love one)  ;D and trying to keep the politics at a roughly Empire-vs-Stormcloaks sort of level.

Oh yeah.

Had some back and forth on this a while back:
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/state-of-the-cyberpunk/150/

Your timeline is just as good as anything else. 'Big collapse' followed by the Government outsourcing local control of certain areas to MegaCorps.

I like that it is also very short and to the point. Long, detailed alt-histories are usually when the would-be game designers start really losing the plot...

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 06:33:49 PM

... I know when I ran (AD&D set in) Cyberpunk 2020, it was always about fighting Arasaka. And I don't really like the assumption that it's fine to kill people as long as they're wearing a security guard uniform. In running Agency Job, I had Kronos ask the PCs to please  NOT kill the Arasaka Lazarus Security Guards if possible, pointing out that they're just trying to make a living too.

I still find it odd that CPRed and The Witcher are basically using the same resolution system, but there are enough mechanical differences so that they are not really cross compatible.

I mean, 'come on man! A group of Witcher PC's magically fuck around with some standing stones and find themselves transported into the middle of a Megacorp research facility that was looking into the interesting properties of megalithic slabs.

Or the reverse with a group of runners getting temporarily zorted to the Continent. Who wouldn't want to do a Solo/Witcher duel? Yet you can't do that without hacking the rules discrepancies on your own.

But looking at Cody Pondsmiths latest project, maybe a certain degree of incompatibility was intentional...

Quote from: Jaeger on February 28, 2024, 04:34:31 PM
One of the issues my group and I had was that we felt the exploding d10 mechanic didn't really add anything to the resolution system that a d20, or more statistically something like a d16 would, other than re-rolls at least 20% of the time just to get to the same place.

Admittedly my group is an outlier, as we are system wonks that nitpick relentlessly.

CPRed and the Witcher also suffer from ridiculously long skill lists. (It vexes me.)

I've only been running it online and the character sheet does auto rerolls on a 10. I can see it'd be vexing in person, probably best to roll 2d10 of different colours with one being the wild die. I actually really like the results it gives in play. The 30 point range in a d10 based system would be akin to a 60 point range in D&D.

Agree re skill list, distinguishing eg Conversation from Persuasion isn't easy! Or two separate 'dress sense' skills! Starting with the pregen PCs and then modifying them made it much easier than building a PC from scratch though.

Something my players dearly loved was when the "Run" (i.e. whatever their Fixer set them up with) would scale up and take them to places they never even conceived of going.

Edit: TL/DR - Use the resource books to make the PC's travel to cool unique places. Near Orbit and Deep Space books are *awesome*.

One of those missions turned out stealing a shipment from an secure warehouse while it was in-transit. Simple snatch-n'-grab. Of course this was all a prelude to something far far far more complex (which the PC's had no idea).

I set up in game for months various tid-bits of news on the Scream Sheets. So I'd come up with current events around Night City, as well as national and international headlines. Many were possible lead-ins to potential storyhooks for personal interest, or missions. Others were just red-herrings (which I was fully prepared to flesh out if the PC's decided to look into for whatever reason). But one of the innocuous stories was of a deep-space operation going on around the moon of Triton in the orbit of Neptune. I basically set up this idea that Orbital Air, backed by the ESA, had been working on experimental rocketry and had mission to go to Triton and back. Well the PC's were supposed to steal some shipment that was being held in a private and secure warehouse. The truth was they were being tested.

It was the U.S. government (CIA) that was testing to see if the PC's were good enough to break into the warehouse and get the goods. They approached their Fixer (who had no idea), gave him enough parameters to believe in the job, he passed it on to the PC's. The PC's end up barely succeeding (the casing of the place, and the break-in and extraction took several sessions itself), but the point was upon success, the PC's were surreptitiously confronted by CIA kill teams and made "The Offer they Couldn't Refuse" (note: they COULD have refused, but they'd have to kill the CIA agent(s) and their SpecOps backup - which was entirely possible as the PC's were pretty beefy.) But the offer was something unique - they would be trained to go into orbit and infiltrate Orbital Air operations on the Crystal Palace, meet with a Orbital Air employee defector that was trying to leave (for some unknown reason - but would be revealed during the mission).

This gave me a excuse to use the Near Orbit and Deep Space books from CP2020. Both fantastic resources to do some crazy shit in space - something few CP games ever actually do. Anyhow it took the PC's who were geared to the fucking teeth into deep waters, as most of their high-powered shit didn't work in space. Space is fucking *dangerous* as hell, and the Near Orbit and Deep Space books do an amazing job to prep you to beat the shit out of our PC's while delivering intensely high-stakes gameplay.

Orbital Air was my "bad guys" of choice. I used Arasaka and Militech as neutral but very interested parties in terms of campaign related background. But the adventure took the PC's ****WAY**** out of their comfort zone. It culminated in them going to the moon, where Copernicus colony went "dark" to find their mission to nab the Orbital Air cargo on the Crystal Palace was hijacked by other interested parties (Arasaka) and ended up on the moon... only to find out that the cargo was an alien Queen (yeah... from Aliens. Sue me, this was 1993 and it was edgy as fuck back then). By the time the PC's arrived at Copernicus Crater - the Alien Queen had pretty much installed herself and had a nice little hive going.

The entire adventure took like 3-months of multiple sessions (maybe 2/week, and most of our sessions were 10+hrs.) just to GET to Copernicus Crater. Then the entire game turned into a really intense Aliens game - the look on their faces were priceless. Trapped on the Moon, the only way through the problem was through the Alien queen who had effectively fucked up everything in the complex and was hunting the PC's down. Turned into total survival mode. Was epic as fuck.

What we learned: A properly cybered up PC with .03 Humanity *could* survive ejection into the vacuum of space and make it back into the lunar habitat. He was in very rough shape, but he did survive. Also, never go full-auto with a non-gyro-jet weapon in zero-gravity (the PC's snuck his own weapon on board... he later used that weapon to "move" in zero-G but unfortunately destroyed the section of the habitat he was in, flash-freezing himself to death). Radiation does not give you super-powers. And Alien acid-blood, does indeed suck to get on your space-suit.

I like the idea of a concentric circles approach, where the PCs start out in the local neighbourhood, then the wasteland, graduate to missions in Europe and Latam, eventually out into Space.

Perhaps not what you're looking for, however I always start here:

Goals as GM:

One Shining Moment For Every Player And PC

One Cool Reward For Each PC

One Plot Thread Measurably Advanced

One Surprise

One Seed Planted

One Background Event

One Way The PCs Have Changed The World


Good gaming!

Quote from: SimpleDisorder on February 29, 2024, 01:17:54 PM
Perhaps not what you're looking for, however I always start here:

Goals as GM:

One Shining Moment For Every Player And PC

One Cool Reward For Each PC

One Plot Thread Measurably Advanced

One Surprise

One Seed Planted

One Background Event

One Way The PCs Have Changed The World


Good gaming!

These seem like good things to bear in mind. Running a sandbox I can't ensure all that every session  ;D and I very much see shining moments as things the player creates, at most I give the opportunity.

Quote from: tenbones on February 29, 2024, 09:58:20 AM
But one of the innocuous stories was of a deep-space operation going on around the moon of Triton in the orbit of Neptune.

Given the dystopian/realistic tone I'm going for, I'm pretty sure that in my 2064 world, Elon Musk never reached Mars.   :'( But Near Orbit sounds well worth checking out, thanks!

If you like that kind of stuff, what else might I have in my handy haversack. 

27 Questions To Ask Your New Characters

The character creation process is one of the most important steps at the beginning of any campaign. The choices you make will echo over the course of many levels. Making a truly memorable character requires you to make a lot of important choices. From race, class and attribute distribution all decisions will factor into the overall enjoyment of playing this character.

1.   How old is your character?
2.   Are your parents still alive?
3.   If one or both of your parents are dead when and how did they die?
4.   Who raised you after your parents died?
5.   Do you have any siblings?
6.   Have any of them died?
7.   If any siblings have died how did they die?
8.   What do your siblings do?
9.   Is your character married?
10.   Does your character have children?
11.   What social class is your character from?
12.   How has their upbringing affected their world view?
13.   How did your character get started in their chosen class?
14.   Does your character have any heroes or inspirational figures?
15.   Does your character have any significant personal items?
16.   Is your character religious?
17.   Is your character guided by a prophecy?
18.   What is your character's view on magic?
19.   Has your character ever served in the military?
20.   Has your character ever been arrested? What for?
21.   How did your character meet his current adventuring companions?
22.   Has your character ever crossed anyone?
23.   Does your character have any enemies?
24.   What are your character's goals in life?
25.   How important is the accumulation of wealth?
26.   If your character died tomorrow what would they be remembered for?
27.   Where did your character learn or train their skills?

Quote from: S'mon on February 29, 2024, 02:13:25 PM

Quote from: SimpleDisorder on February 29, 2024, 01:17:54 PM
Perhaps not what you're looking for, however I always start here:

Goals as GM:

One Shining Moment For Every Player And PC

One Cool Reward For Each PC

One Plot Thread Measurably Advanced

One Surprise

One Seed Planted

One Background Event

One Way The PCs Have Changed The World


Good gaming!

These seem like good things to bear in mind. Running a sandbox I can't ensure all that every session  ;D and I very much see shining moments as things the player creates, at most I give the opportunity.

It's still online: https://orbitalflower.github.io/rpg/wizards-3e-archive.html#villain-builder
Not cyberpunk, however this Villian Builder series improved my games micro and macro.  Just replace Dragons with Militech hover platforms.   ;)

Last tip, The Edge Runners show on Netflix does a good job of setting the theme.  A bit over the top with the super cyber spine, however some run hot like that.  They show how scary cyber psychosis is. 

https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/edgerunners

Good luck!

Erik

@Simple cheers!

@Tenbones - I think in my setting Kessler Syndrome following the Last War will pretty much prevent manned space flight currently, but I do want to bring in exotic locations over time.

Quote from: S'mon on March 01, 2024, 05:53:57 AM
@Simple cheers!

@Tenbones - I think in my setting Kessler Syndrome following the Last War will pretty much prevent manned space flight currently, but I do want to bring in exotic locations over time.

I came up with the following this morning:

Space in 2064

War debris Kessler Syndrome has closed LEO to humanity, probably for at least the next two decades, and the Starlink global satellite network did not survive the War, but further out in Geostationary Orbit 35,785 km (22,236 miles) over Nairobi Kenya, the vast ESA-owned, publically accessible Crystal Palace station is battered but still largely intact, and still inhabited - sort of. As well as the teams of hundreds of ESA and Corporate reconstruction workers, technicians, security and scientists, there are rumours of radiation-crazed cannibal cults, rogue killer drones, bioenginered space monsters, diehard Russian Cosmo-Spetsnaz still fighting the Last War ... in Space, everyone will hear you scream.    ;D

Officially Crystal Palace is at the Earth-Moon L1 point but that seems very far out (326,869 km), and only useful as a staging point for large scale lunar colonisation. The way it's described as functioning it feels much closer. (I think the authors confuse the Earth-Sun L1 with the Earth-Moon L1).

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.d20.io/images/386302519/ujm-0TWt-Stny7rsWAxccg/med.jpg?1711539325)