I'm curious about peoples thought on very basic introductory rule sets, quick start rules etc.

I can see the value of free rules, to let people get the basics of how the rules work. Potentially I can see how that might entice someone to buy the complete rules if they like what they see.

I've never found limited beginner's rules to be attractive to buy. I remember being very disappointed early on when I bought what I thought was Traveller's 3 LBB core books in one larger book, only to find it was a very reduced version of the game. As a result I'm not much of a fan of buying "basic" rules of a more complete rules set.


I can see the value of a limited stand alone "players" book, to offer players a less expensive option of only the rules a player will need vs the complete rules a GM will require. I'm not talking about those books here.


I'm really curious to know how useful these quick start rules are towards enticing someone to buy the complete game.




Poll attached (I hope, first time doing a poll), please feel free to comment in addition to the poll.

I voted, but now have a tangential question.
I am not familiar with the truncated edition of the Classic Traveller Books 1-3 you are Referee referring to. I have done a lot of digging into the Classic Traveller line and am not familiar with the version you reference. Can you tell me more? Point me in the direction of it?
Thanks!

I think there's a point where an experienced gamer isn't interested in an introductory set, while a new gamer might be.
I love the original Red Box D&D set, but I've since never been interested in introductory sets. I want the whole thing so I can see all the rules and content. (Higher level spells and all)

On the one hand, QuickStart rules provide a flavour of the full game. However, on the other hand, they are frustratingly incomplete.

I would not pay for QuickStart rules, preferring to wait until the full version comes out. However, am happy to download a free version.

I ran a 12 session campaign using the Pathfinder Beginner Box, that was great. And the Mentzer Red Box & Moldvay Basic are fantastic too, I have occasionally used them alone. OTOH there are a lot of garbage starter sets, WoTC put out several.

The FFG starter set for Edge of the Empire tipped me into that system. It helped that it provided good value with a set of custom dice, tokens for Force Points, characters, etc, and a full colour double sided poster-map, as well as rules, pregen characters and a starter adventure. For less than the hardcover core rules, which would need the dice anyway.


I love grabbing free pdf quoickstarts, they are a great way of deciding if I like a game enough to want to pursue it further.  Some I look at and decide they are not for me.  With the cost of a full rules book these days it helps.

After blowing over a hundred dollars on D&D 4E and finding it sucked, I won't drop a huge amount of money on anything new. WotC's 5E Introductory Set was crippleware because you couldn't make characters with it, but their free 5E Basic Game PDF is great because it lets you fully sample the game before going further (including character generation).

I love the idea of quick-starts but most of the Free RPG Day quick-starts I've read aren't very good -not because they're incomplete, but because they try to cram in too much and become unreadable and/or unwieldy. If someone like myself (35 years of RPG experience) is annoyed or confused, I'd imagine that a newbie would just be completely lost.

If it is a gimped edition version of a full game (i.e. missing vital components like character creation) it should be free.

If it is a complete game in its own right but just missing some of the options in the full game (fewer classes, for instance) I would consider paying for it, as I prefer lighter games. Although I can't say it would necessarily entice me to buy the full game if that looked too heavy.

It entirely depends on the contents of the free quick start rules.  I will say, no character creation in the quick start and I will never buy your products ever.  I'm not saying that will impact anyone else's decision but here's my reasoning.  Character creation is the heart of an rpg.  It's what sets them apart from board games and writing stories.  If you aren't going to show me character creation in your point of entry, I'm not buying your stuff.

I like free quickstart or abridged rules to get a feel for mechanics, but can also often glean this from reviews. I would not pay for such things however.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;1007361I voted, but now have a tangential question.
I am not familiar with the truncated edition of the Classic Traveller Books 1-3 you are Referee referring to. I have done a lot of digging into the Classic Traveller line and am not familiar with the version you reference. Can you tell me more? Point me in the direction of it?
Thanks!

You are asking me to dredge up probably a 38 year old memory...  All I can recall is it was an 8 1/2 x 11" Traveller book (possibly in a box?) marketed as a complete rule set. It was very bare bones and lacked much of the rules from the 3 core LBBs. I was very disappointed as I had played Traveller but didn't own the books.

Looking at Wikipedia under Traveller, I suspect it might have been the Traveller Starter edition.

Quote from: Toadmaster;1007560You are asking me to dredge up probably a 38 year old memory...  All I can recall is it was an 8 1/2 x 11" Traveller book (possibly in a box?) marketed as a complete rule set. It was very bare bones and lacked much of the rules from the 3 core LBBs. I was very disappointed as I had played Traveller but didn't own the books.

Looking at Wikipedia under Traveller, I suspect it might have been the Traveller Starter edition.

Yea, probably Starter Traveller, the differences between that and 1977, 1981, and The Traveller Book are well documented in my Traveller Section by Section Comparison:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jsH-EgKvaR0mdbtJMj_Xj7X3TcYyZTqQGf-Gwu58PX0/edit?usp=sharing

Note that as a truncated rule set, it is amazingly complete, and has a functional simplified ship combat system that is usable outside the realm of introductory gaming.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1007362I think there's a point where an experienced gamer isn't interested in an introductory set, while a new gamer might be.
I love the original Red Box D&D set, but I've since never been interested in introductory sets. I want the whole thing so I can see all the rules and content. (Higher level spells and all)

As I recall those older boxed "basic" D&D sets were level based? So you could buy the first set to cover low levels, then another for the next range of levels etc? I mostly played AD&D / 2nd ed and only had a little exposure to the "basic" D&D rule sets. That actually seems a reasonable way to offer a less expensive intro without actually making the intro a "lesser" product, it is simply the first product needed. Probably limited in the kinds of games that would work for though class / level based games making it easier to sort the needed rules.
 

Quote from: soltakss;1007372On the one hand, QuickStart rules provide a flavour of the full game. However, on the other hand, they are frustratingly incomplete.

I would not pay for QuickStart rules, preferring to wait until the full version comes out. However, am happy to download a free version.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1007385I love the idea of quick-starts but most of the Free RPG Day quick-starts I've read aren't very good -not because they're incomplete, but because they try to cram in too much and become unreadable and/or unwieldy. If someone like myself (35 years of RPG experience) is annoyed or confused, I'd imagine that a newbie would just be completely lost.

This fits my experience as well. Free not such a big deal because it is free, but if I am paying for it I expect a complete game. Obviously not one with all the options as the complete game, but a coherent stand alone rule set. It seems like many are hack jobs of editing to reach a specific smaller page count rather than re-writing a just the bare bones rule set that gives the flavor and tone of the rules.

The old Basic Role Playing handout from Chaosium was a fairly decent example of this in my opinion. It was a complete no frills low fantasy RPG in about 20 pages, much simpler than RQ but one could easily go from one to the other.

I think the Basic/Expert D&D (later expanded with Companion and Master) is a good model. When you buy the subsequent modules, you aren't getting significant duplicate material.

Starter rules that give you most of what you need to play a character generated using the full rules could work well, especially if free. The GM buys the full rules, gives out the intro rules to the players, and then chargen is done in a game session with folks who have had a chance to read the rules.

Paying for a truncated rule set that is superseded by the full rules is a waste of money.

All of this said by someone who got started in RPGs when his best friend got Holmes Basic for his birthday in the fall of 1977, but past that weekend, we never used Basic D&D.

Frank