So, for my gaming blog (http://daddywarpig.wordpress.com), I decided to do a writeup describing the Torg RPG setting. For all those who have no idea what this baroque and out-of-print game is all about, here is an introduction.
This is Torg:
A dozen separate universes, each called a cosm, each different from all the others in fundamental ways.
One is a cosm of High Fantasy, where magic is real — including dragons, magicians, and enchanted blades — and the Honorable fight the Corrupt. One is a Technohorror cosm, where cruel technodemons rule an enslaved humanity. One is a Pulp Supers cosm, where costumed heroes fight costumed villains, gangsters drive Duesenbergs and carry tommy guns, and an insane master villain plots to conquer yet another world. There are many more cosms, one of which — called Core Earth — is just like our world.
Each cosm has different axioms: Magic, Social, Spirit, and Tech. Each also has different World Laws, which describe ways in which each is unique, mechanically and mentally. Together, these comprise the cosm’s reality.
These cosms have each invaded the real world, conquering parts of it and enforcing their reality over our own. The rulers of these invading cosms are High Lords, powerful and immortal beings here to drain Earth’s Possibility Energy, the energy of existence. Without our Possibilities, our world, our cosm, will die.
Players are heroic Storm Knights, rare individuals who can cross the roiling reality storms at the edge of the invader’s realms. They come from all the cosms, and are as different from each other as their cosms are. Yet they are all united by one goal: to defeat the High Lords and free Core Earth.
In Torg, a noble knight, wielding the power of his gods, and a cyber-enhanced sneak thief can team up with Captain Heroic to fight bloodthirsty dinosaur-men in a primitive jungle. They can fight dragons in the magical reality of Aysle, scavenge for lost technomagical relics in one of Tharkold’s devastated and decayed cities, stop the insane Doctor Dimension from vaporizing Cairo with his dastardly Omni-destructor.
They can be from a dozen different realities, and can adventure in each of those realities. They can chase a villain across the globe, crossing from fantasy to cyberpunk to technohorror, all in the same game session.
This is Torg: trans-genre roleplaying across many different realities, fighting to save the world.
Yup, I remember playing that in the early 90s...was an ok system, but didn't much care for combat, not that I can remember exactly the issue.
Quote from: Doom;585072Yup, I remember playing that in the early 90s...was an ok system, but didn't much care for combat, not that I can remember exactly the issue.
Yup, by modern standards the system is baroque and chart-heavy. At the time (early '90's) the system didn't bother me, but I loved the hell out of the setting.
Still do. Which is why the post above concentrates solely on the setting, and never mentions the system.
Because the system bugs me. For many reasons.
Which is why I'm (oh, so slowly) writing a new rules system, one that (hopefully) does the setting and play style justice.
(Dirty, Dirty Blog Pimping: My
House of Gaming blog, link above and in my signature is where I'll be building the system I intend to use. If interested, feel free to check out the Destiny (http://daddywarpig.wordpress.com) category. Or anything else, really.)
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;585092Yup, by modern standards the system is baroque and chart-heavy. At the time (early '90's) the system didn't bother me, but I loved the hell out of the setting.
Still do. Which is why the post above concentrates solely on the setting, and never mentions the system.
Because the system bugs me. For many reasons.
Which is why I'm (oh, so slowly) writing a new rules system, one that (hopefully) does the setting and play style justice.
What bugs you about the system? I haven't played it in years (because its so tied to the setting) so my memory may be misleading me, but I think it's one of the best systems I've played.
I dislike the system. But I do like the setting. But I think now looking back. I would dump some of the cosms. Cyberpapacy, Nippon Tech, and Space Gods/Star Sphere/Akasha can all go bye, bye. Wouldn't hurt/effect me. Except improve my enjoyment of the game.
Quote from: Ronin;585227Cyberpapacy, Nippon Tech, and Space Gods/Star Sphere/Akasha can all go bye, bye.
Reworked, the Cyberpapacy could be very cool. The though of a cyber-dystopia, where miracles are real and can be used as tools of oppression, as well as a VX Net where real angels and demons exist, with gates to heaven or hell...
That's too cool and unique to toss. Needs to be reworked, but the idea thrums with promise.
Nippon Tech I'm reworking into
Sino Tech, the Wuxia Technothriller reality. You can (loosely) think of it as the
Feng Sui RPG cosm. Near future one world state dystopia, coupled with Jianghu, the parallell world of martial arts clans ruled by a despotic emperor. Portals link the two worlds, and in both, wandering martial arts heroes (the Xia) fight for the oppressed peasants against the powerful and wealthy.
The Star Sphere I've tossed entirely, except that I raided it for elements for my retro-futuristic Cyber Pulp cosm, Kadandra. This is the reality of Golden Age science-fiction, where people can travel to the stars, but lack personal computers (instead, Big Iron rules). Their Earth is part of the Aka Alliance, along with several alien races, fighting a memetic war against the Coar and their client races.
The bridges of Earth Force starcruisers resemble those of a 1946 terrestrial, oceanic battleship. Instead of touchscreens, dials and switches and buttons. Instead of hologram projectors, what appear to be cathode ray tube screens. Instead of advanced polymers or plastics, metal doors and decks.
Gyroc (.75 gyro-stabilized rocket) sidearms and fast-fire energy weapons are neither plastic nor exotic materials. They are steel, with wooden grips. They look like weapons straight out of WW II. Battery cells shaped like bullet clips. Iron sights, instead of lasers. (The target lock-on capabilities of the gyroc rounds makes sights obsolete anyway.)
That is the retro-future: the future of the past, done up with a cool mythos.
So, instead of just ejecting those cosms, I'm reworking them. It's all part of my
Storm Knights campaign.
(Eventually, all the material about Sino Tech, the Cyberpapacy, and Kadandra will be reposted to my already-pimped blog.)
Wasn't Torg supposed to be republished and reworked? Did that fall through?
Quote from: Grymbok;585147What bugs you about the system?
This could be a long post, but...
It's clunky, baroque, and not at all straightforward.
Each roll (1d20, possibly re-rolling on 10's and 20's, or just 10's, or on any result, depending on circumstances) has to be read against a chart to get a Bonus Number. A 9 or 10 is a Bonus Number of -1, 11 or 12 is +0, 13 +1 and so forth.
The resulting Bonus Number gets added to one or two other numbers, depending.
Take an attack. Attack skill and Damage Value of weapon. Roll the dice, get Bonus Number, add to Attack skill and DV. Compare Attack skill to Defense skill (straight Defense skill, or Defense skill plus a Bonus Number if the target actively defended). If it's equal to or higher, you hit.
Then take the DV of the weapon (+ Bonus Number) and subtract the Toughness (+ armor, if applicable) of the target. The result is read on one of two Damage Tables depending on if they're an ord or a stormer. (Stormers take roughly half the damage.)
Here's the Stormer chart:
= 1
1 1
2 O1
3 K1
4 2
5 O2
6 Knockdown O2
7 Knockdown K2
8 Knockdown K2
9 Wnd K3
10 Wnd K4
11 Wnd O4
12 Wnd K5
13 2Wnd O4
14 2Wnd KO 5
15 3Wnd KO 5
+2 +1 Wnd
(Again, there's an entirely different one for Ords.)
Here's how to interpret the results:
"Knockdown" means you get knocked down. -2 to all actions until you stand up, but you get a bonus to defense from missile weapons and gunfire.
The numbers are Shock. You accumulate them until they equal your Toughness, when you go unconscious.
K's are solid hits. They linger around for half an hour. If you already have a K and take another one, you take 3 Shock.
O's are lighter hits. They linger for one round. If you have an O and take a K, nothing happens. If you have a K and take an O, you are KO'd, knocked unconscious for 30 minutes.
KO's are just that... you're KO'd, knocked unconscious for 30 minutes. If you have a K and take a KO, you take 3 Shock.
Wounds are severe damage. Take 3, and you're down and bleeding to death: 1 Shock per round, until it equals your Tou and you die.
If you're a Stormer (which damage chart this is), you can spend a Possibility to reduce the damage from one hit. Each PE buys off 3 "packets" of damage:
1. A single wound.
2. 3 shock points.
3. A K, O, or KO.
3 types of damage, two of which do similar things (induce unconsciousness), complex rules on how they interact, and complex rules for buying off damage.
And that's just the damage system.
It's clunky. That's my complaint. Most of the system is clunky.
It can be played, I and thousands of others did and do, but it's far from elegant or straightforward. (Though there are elegant mechanics in it.)
Quote from: danbuter;585240Wasn't Torg supposed to be republished and reworked? Did that fall through?
Thrice, at least. Once under WEG, as
Storm Lords, then again as
Torg 1.5.
WEG got bought out and that publisher was going to publish
Torg 2.0, but only succeeding in publishing the finished 1.5 manuscript (
Torg Revised and Expanded) before going bankrupt.
He sold
Torg to a German publisher (who also publishes
Das Schwarze Auge) in 2011. So far, there is no German edition, much less an English licensor to translate said edition and publish it stateside.
So did the deal fall through?
Yes, yes, yes, and maybe.
I remember Torg fondly. I still have all the sourcebooks somewhere...
As I recall, the mechanic was a little "clunky" (as mentioned) and also had some holes or loopholes in it. It was a fun setting. Innovative for its time. Great "genre clash" if you enjoy that sort of thing (and I do!). :)
I'd love to find out someone was kickstarting Torg 2.0... :)
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;585236Reworked, the Cyberpapacy could be very cool. The though of a cyber-dystopia, where miracles are real and can be used as tools of oppression, as well as a VX Net where real angels and demons exist, with gates to heaven or hell...
That's too cool and unique to toss. Needs to be reworked, but the idea thrums with promise.
You could mix up transhumanism with the Imperials from the ABC warriors ("You must labour for the profits of the prophet!") whose preachers went around the place bathing communities in a rejuvenating radiation as long as the taxes were paid and the rules were obeyed. That whole series was very much the antidote to WH40k to be honest.
Quote from: Daddy Warpig;585242It's clunky. That's my complaint. Most of the system is clunky.
It can be played, I and thousands of others did and do, but it's far from elegant or straightforward. (Though there are elegant mechanics in it.)
Thanks for the refresher on Torg mechanics. Now I remember where the "glass ninja" problem comes from (the use of the same bonus for AV and DV).
I know that chart-based systems are utterly out of vogue in RPG design, but personally I find them very useable and quite elegant in their own way. Hell I could probably run Torg again now given just the GM's screen and a drama deck.
For me the problem with Torg was always the setting. I'm just not interested enough in the genre mash - there was a very limited number of cosms I actually felt like gaming in. If Torg had come out with all the rules it had but had been just a pulp game I'd probably have played it a hell of a lot more.
I used to play TORG in highschool and really liked the setting. The mechanics didn't bother me at the time but that kind of system wasn't all that unusual back then I suppose (though we did have a GM who switched over to running the game with GURPS.
Picked up the boxed set and Ororsh Guide off Amazon a couple of months ago and hoping to run a small campaign when I get a chance (luckily I have a player who is excited to play TORG again and the rest of the group is willing to give it a try).
Reading through the books the mechanics are definitely more clunky than I remember (but there is also some nostalgic charm to them for me). The Ororsh book is excellent, really enjoye reading it. The boxed set is a fun read too. My only complaint is i bought it used and the drama deck was missing.
I still have my box set (and drama dice), but the world books were all casualties of one house move or other.
Quote from: Grymbok;585287Thanks for the refresher on Torg mechanics. Now I remember where the "glass ninja" problem comes from (the use of the same bonus for AV and DV).
Re: Glass-Jaw Ninja, let me introduce you to the current reigning alternative: Skill-Based Combat (http://stormknights.arcanearcade.com/gameplay/skillcombat.html).
It's a neat solution, if I do say so myself. And I do.
Quote from: Grymbok;585287but personally I find them very useable and quite elegant in their own way.
That's cool. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just describe why the system doesn't suit my needs anymore.
if you like Classic Torg, the original boxed set or the hardbacked Revised and Expanded will do you fine. (I especially recommend the R&E. Excellent revision of the material.)
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;585310Picked up the boxed set and Ororsh Guide off Amazon a couple of months ago
As long as I'm pushing my Torg website, take a look at Universal Orrorsh (http://stormknights.arcanearcade.com/realities/orrorsh.html). It's a very different twist on Horror in Torg.
I loved TORG; there's something I'd love to see done again, hopefully with a better system.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;585536I loved TORG; there's something I'd love to see done again, hopefully with a better system.
I'd love to do it with Sixcess Core, but I definitely don't have the fundage for the rights.
Quote from: RPGPundit;585536I loved TORG; there's something I'd love to see done again, hopefully with a better system.
I'm working on one, that's the main subject of the aforementioned blog.
You might get a kick out of one of my most recent posts, regarding the system: "Destiny is Not a Storygame (http://daddywarpig.wordpress.com/2012/09/23/destiny-is-not-a-story-game/)".
I will confess, it's a result of much of what I've read here. (Not that I would ever have made a storygame.) As such, take it as another symbol of your triumphant victory. :p
When I get something more finalized, I'll be posting in the game design forum. Feel free to comment, if you've the time and the mind to do so.
Quote from: Grymbok;585287I know that chart-based systems are utterly out of vogue in RPG design, but personally I find them very useable and quite elegant in their own way. Hell I could probably run Torg again now given just the GM's screen and a drama deck.
I don't think I ever heard anyone refer to TORG as "elegant" before you.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;586456I don't think I ever heard anyone refer to TORG as "elegant" before you.
RPGPundit
I was thinking more of things like FASERIP when I referred to chart-based systems as elegant. TORG is a bit more like a tricked-out hot rod.
Quote from: Grymbok;586499I was thinking more of things like FASERIP when I referred to chart-based systems as elegant. TORG is a bit more like a tricked-out hot rod.
I would say more of a very charming clunker.
RPGPundit