Quote from: DocJones;1131479Actually what is amusing about this is that "10 hate groups" from all over the country fit in a "20 car caravan" and had a meet in a tent I would estimate held around 60 chairs.  It's a truly pathetic turnout for any groups event.  They are pathetic and just as pathetic is the hand-wringing over it.  It's nearly as pathetic as the concern over the activities of the Westboro Baptist church with only 17 active members.
There will always be a tiny amount of idiots and to inflate a tiny amount of idiots into some huge movement is just as retarded as the few retards at this gathering.

The Westboro Baptist Church is a joke until it's your kid that they're crashing the funeral of. The guys who openly identify themselves as Nazis, Neo-Confederates, Neo-Klan, and Christian Identity Movement are not the majority. I believe in Democracy and that fails if I ever believed the majority of people aren't fundamentally good. However, there's enough of them collectively that they can intimidate and terrorize regular people.

Honestly, the majority of the actual white power movements in my area are less concerned with political activism than running the meth and opioid trades but that doesn't mean they don't follow the ideology. It's not dress up and it just takes one asshole with a gun to go on a killing spree. The guy who shot those two people in my Kroger was going to kill a church's worth of people but fucked up and decided to settle for the next black people he saw.

Quote from: Brad;1131302So now it's being "hostile" if you just play with your friends and don't actively seek out gay black female Muslim quadriplegics with Downs Syndrome to join in.

Shit, that's just classic!!!

The Westboro Baptist Church is run by committed leftists.  Though admittedly they are grifters first, leftists only a close second.  

Which you'd know if you bothered to do any research beyond reading your talking points.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1131486The Westboro Baptist Church is run by committed leftists.  Though admittedly they are grifters first, leftists only a close second.  

Which you'd know if you bothered to do any research beyond reading your talking points.

I'm sorry, how far up your own DM screen do you have to be to actually care about Right vs. Left when discussing The WBBC and Nazis?

If you defend either, you're a piece of shit.

Doesn't matter if you're right or left.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131487I'm sorry, how far up your own DM screen do you have to be to actually care about Right vs. Left when discussing The WBBC and Nazis?

If you defend either, you're a piece of shit.

Doesn't matter if you're right or left.

Listen, moron.  I'm not going to keep playing the divert game with you.  I've got better things to do with my time. So I'll say this and you can go back to your diversions all you want without any interference from me for awhile:  No one was defending either Westboro or Nazi.  You were trying to stick some non-Nazi's with the Nazi label with a little tap dancing and the isolated few real Nazis, and slip in a stick of "Westboro" as being part of the "the right" by way of a free pass in logic and truth. I'm calling you out for being a lying piece of shit.  That's all.

Don't mistake me talking to others about how big a piece of shit you are as talking to you.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1131494Listen, moron.  I'm not going to keep playing the divert game with you.  I've got better things to do with my time. So I'll say this and you can go back to your diversions all you want without any interference from me for awhile:  No one was defending either Westboro or Nazi.  You were trying to stick some non-Nazi's with the Nazi label with a little tap dancing and the isolated few real Nazis, and slip in a stick of "Westboro" as being part of the "the right" by way of a free pass in logic and truth. I'm calling you out for being a lying piece of shit.  That's all.

Don't mistake me talking to others about how big a piece of shit you are as talking to you.

Are you reading what I'm saying?

You keep saying diverting when the ****ing point is WHEN I REFER TO NAZIS, I MEAN NAZIS. I don't mean people I disagree with on the internet, I don't mean "bad people", I don't mean Right Wingers [which is fucking stupid--my great uncle was a lifelong republican who fought in the Battle of the Bulge, both my grandfathers also fought in WW2], and I don't mean Martians. I mean Nazis. People who identify as National Socialist white supremacists and wear their iconography or sell it and practice their beliefs.

They're everywhere in Kentucky. They only just banned their booths at the Kentucky state fair the year before last.

https://www.wlky.com/article/kentucky-state-fair-board-unanimously-bans-sale-of-nazi-swastika-items/25134152

I'm also going to call BS on your argument because I wasn't the one who brought up the WBC. Which I'm going to assume you knew since it was the post above mine that mentioned them.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131496They're everywhere in Kentucky. They only just banned their booths at the Kentucky state fair the year before last.

https://www.wlky.com/article/kentucky-state-fair-board-unanimously-bans-sale-of-nazi-swastika-items/25134152

This is stupid.  And to bring it back on topic...
It's like banning discussion of MyFarog here.  Sure there might well be 1 or 2 fans, but it ain't going to cause anyone to start running neo-nazi games or to become neo-nazis.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131496I'm also going to call BS on your argument because I wasn't the one who brought up the WBC. Which I'm going to assume you knew since it was the post above mine that mentioned them.

I surely did, but in the context of it's a tiny group of annoying people whose infamy is far far beyond their influence, which is negligible (not whether they were left, right, up or down).  
And of course the courts here have defended their free speech rights.  
They might also make for a pretty cool Hunter organization with their "God hates Vampyres" signs.

Quote from: DocJones;1131499This is stupid.  And to bring it back on topic...
It's like banning discussion of MyFarog here.  Sure there might well be 1 or 2 fans, but it ain't going to cause anyone to start running neo-nazi games or to become neo-nazis.




I surely did, but in the context of it's a tiny group of annoying people whose infamy is far far beyond their influence, which is negligible (not whether they were left, right, up or down).  
And of course the courts here have defended their free speech rights.  
They might also make for a pretty cool Hunter organization with their "God hates Vampyres" signs.

Yeah, the point of what I was saying is, "The WBC *IS* small. However, it can still fuck up your day." In the context of, "Nazis aren't the majority. They're an extremist minority. They're just a real big problem in my area."

And THAT was brought up from me agreeing with the fact no one should ever call someone a Nazi unless they're actually Nazis. When I bring them up, I mean actual Nazis.

Which seems confusing to some people. They seem to think I'm trying to do a hand trick or mind-fuck here versus me saying, "No, when you mention Nazis. You better mean real Nazis."

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131465Yeah, this is the stuff that pisses me off.

Too often it's from people who don't apparently live in the real world where people have to deal with real people who will kill you if you piss them off or are the wrong skin color/gay. Not saying you in particular but I've dealt with plenty of people who seriously think modern Nazism is an ideology that exists only in the fever dreams of Leftists. Like communist apologists in the 70s academia, it's born from people who don't want to acknowledge real killers and oppressors or extremists in their midst.

The problem that I see is that the people who you "think" want to kill you because you are [X] are statistically not the people most likely to kill you for being [X].

Its like being killed by the Police, for example.  Everyone "knows" that the Police like to kill people (second most liked activity behind eating donuts) but statistically which [X] are they most likely to kill given a choice?

Quote from: Shasarak;1131511The problem that I see is that the people who you "think" want to kill you because you are [X] are statistically not the people most likely to kill you for being [X].

Its like being killed by the Police, for example.  Everyone "knows" that the Police like to kill people (second most liked activity behind eating donuts) but statistically which [X] are they most likely to kill given a choice?

Not to cut this conversation point off at the source but you realize the point was, "leave your politics at the door and just enjoy gaming", right?

A private forum about gaming should be about mutual respect and enjoyment of the hobby.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131496WHEN I REFER TO NAZIS, I MEAN NAZIS. I don't mean people I disagree with on the internet, I don't mean "bad people", I don't mean Right Wingers [which is fucking stupid--my great uncle was a lifelong republican who fought in the Battle of the Bulge, both my grandfathers also fought in WW2], and I don't mean Martians. I mean Nazis. People who identify as National Socialist white supremacists and wear their iconography or sell it and practice their beliefs.

They're everywhere in Kentucky. They only just banned their booths at the Kentucky state fair the year before last.

https://www.wlky.com/article/kentucky-state-fair-board-unanimously-bans-sale-of-nazi-swastika-items/25134152

Quote from: DocJones;1131499This is stupid.  And to bring it back on topic...
It's like banning discussion of MyFarog here.  Sure there might well be 1 or 2 fans, but it ain't going to cause anyone to start running neo-nazi games or to become neo-nazis.

CTPhipps - I disagree with you on the free speech point, but I think you've been arguing in good faith and haven't been misusing the term nazi. Personally, I only use nazi to describe someone who openly identifies as a nazi. I think name-calling is a weak, and nazi has been misused for ages. Godwin's Law was expressed as such in 1990, and the principle had already been true for a while.

The issue with free speech is: Does banning nazi iconography and speech actually work to reduce the number of nazis and neonazis? I don't see any evidence that it does. I think driving neo-nazis underground just let's them flourish and reinforces their narrative of being oppressed. They should be opposed, but not banned, IMO. From what I read of white supremacy, it flourishes in the shadows.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11148558-my-life-after-hate

Quote from: jhkim;1131514CTPhipps - I disagree with you on the free speech point, but I think you've been arguing in good faith and haven't been misusing the term nazi. Personally, I only use nazi to describe someone who openly identifies as a nazi. I think name-calling is a weak, and nazi has been misused for ages. Godwin's Law was expressed as such in 1990, and the principle had already been true for a while.

The issue with free speech is: Does banning nazi iconography and speech actually work to reduce the number of nazis and neonazis? I don't see any evidence that it does. I think driving neo-nazis underground just let's them flourish and reinforces their narrative of being oppressed. They should be opposed, but not banned, IMO. From what I read of white supremacy, it flourishes in the shadows.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11148558-my-life-after-hate

Thanks,

I think the most effective take against white supremacy that I ever heard of was when the Superman Radio Show (at the time one of the most popular radio programs in the world--when television didnd't exist) had Superman take on the Ku Klux Klan.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/23157/how-superman-defeated-ku-klux-klan

As the storyline progressed, the shows exposed many of the KKK's most guarded secrets. By revealing everything from code words to rituals, the program completely stripped the Klan of its mystique. Within two weeks of the broadcast, KKK recruitment was down to zero. And by 1948, people were showing up to Klan rallies just to mock them.

So I believe in the power of art to take an actual blow against terrible ideas and beliefs. Art can be a powerful force in this world. I don't know if banning Nazi paraphenalia from a State Fair will actually do much to kill the idea but I think it can do a job of establishing that the Fair doesn't ENDORSE THEM. The Neo-Nazis in Kentucky love claiming they're the secret majority and people would side with them if they were honest.

By showing up against them and refusing to serve them/help them, you make it clear polite society doesn't tolerate their shit.

YMMV.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131512Not to cut this conversation point off at the source but you realize the point was, "leave your politics at the door and just enjoy gaming", right?

A private forum about gaming should be about mutual respect and enjoyment of the hobby.

Have any of these [X]s that you are worried about actually killed anyone?  We all know that deep down they want to, but I mean have they actually done it?

Look at the murder statistics, you are much more likely to be killed by someone you know then by a random member of [X]

Quote from: Shasarak;1131520Have any of these [X]s that you are worried about actually killed anyone?  We all know that deep down they want to, but I mean have they actually done it?

Look at the murder statistics, you are much more likely to be killed by someone you know then by a random member of [X]

Listen man, you can't trust one-legged Siberian accountants.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131521Listen man, you can't trust one-legged Siberian accountants.

Right, which is why when they come on line talking about how great MMT is the answer is not to be a dork and say "I am not talking to bigots, you bigot" it is to use your free speech to explain that free money never works.