Quote from: Snowman0147;1131433Which could mean anything.  Like welfare people, neo liberal people, or even neo conservative people.

Yeah, that's the point. The entire argument basically begins with someone wanting to shit on a group and bait people into arguing.

I have strong opinions on hating the hate groups, Neo-Confederates, and white supremacist gangs in my area. However, if I walk into an RPG site to start talking shit about them just to get a rise out of people them I'm not benefiting anyone.

Which plays into the irony of "free speech" that is the basis of my point. A lot of the time it's not actually about free speech but wanting a platform for your views and private pages [like the RPGsite] don't have to serve as a venue for it.

Shut it the fuck down.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131434Yeah, that's the point. The entire argument basically begins with someone wanting to shit on a group and bait people into arguing.

I have strong opinions on hating the hate groups, Neo-Confederates, and white supremacist gangs in my area. However, if I walk into an RPG site to start talking shit about them just to get a rise out of people them I'm not benefiting anyone.

Which plays into the irony of "free speech" that is the basis of my point. A lot of the time it's not actually about free speech but wanting a platform for your views and private pages [like the RPGsite] don't have to serve as a venue for it.

Shut it the fuck down.

If you genuinely believe this, please give this talk a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2uzEM0ugY

The crux of the point that I hope you'll consider is "who decides" and "to whom do you want to cede the right to deny you the right to listen".

Actual bigotry is easy to answer to its face. As you say, it's stupid, and poorly informed. Dealing with others denying you information is harder to cope with, since you can't know what you're being denied.

For the purpose of the topic, I'm glad that TheRPGSite is a place where we can openly argue over whether forces in the industry pushing for this goal or that goal are actually productively working towards their goal or not, whether the side-effects/collateral damage are worth it, and whether the goal even makes sense.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131432Already you've failed basic argument because I never said welfare, I said [X] people.

Which already says you mentally filled in X box.

I filled in the X box with a value that makes your example fall flat. Your inherent biases are shining through.

"X" = "Welfare recipient"

Quote from: Spinachcat;1131401I fully agree with you.

BUT...that's the double edge of freedom of speech. We who love free speech must defend the right to free speech for ALL...including those who would seek to destroy our rights. We must defend the speech we hate.

And yeah, that sucks.

I agree that people like deadDMwalking should get their say.  In fact, I see it as a positive, because the more he talks the more idiotic he appears. However, we should draw the line at people like him being in charge of who gets to speak.  By extension, that includes "who gets hired".  Because that is how the far left takes over the institutions from "liberals"--one idiot at a time being put in a position of power.  Pretty soon, your speech is "violence" and their violence is "speech".  That's a recipe for ending civilization.

Barbarians can visit.  They don't get to set the rules until they show they can be civilized.  Otherwise, we don't have civilization.

Quote from: Brad;1131439I filled in the X box with a value that makes your example fall flat. Your inherent biases are shining through.

"X" = "Welfare recipient"

You don't understand the argument [Given that I flat out said NAZIS would not be a great example] and it's kind of fucked up the example you chose. So, yeah, I'll just drop this conversation point. Yay you.

Peace out folks, good to talk with ya.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131444You don't understand the argument [Given that I flat out said NAZIS would not be a great example] and it's kind of fucked up the example you chose. So, yeah, I'll just drop this conversation point. Yay you.

Peace out folks, good to talk with ya.

I understand the argument very well. You want to discriminate against people who say things you don't like.

Quote from: Brad;1131446I understand the argument very well. You want to discriminate against people who say things you don't like.

He doesn't understand how tact works.  I can self-censor in a particular environment, at a particular time (e.g. avoid certain political topics at Thanksgiving dinner) to be tactful.  I can even advocate, on the basis of tact, that similar considerations maybe should enter into when and how other people self-censor.  If enough people agree with me on a particular point, thus are born "manners".  The penalty for breaking manners is to be thought unmannerly--which in wide array of circumstances is not that big a deal.

It is a huge leap from "manners" to "rules".  Manners are guidelines for how to be tactful that people can try to follow when they aren't naturally tactful.  Given the environment here, I think most of can relate to that.  When rules get imposed under the guise of "manners" (or worse, legally), then you have class distinctions and busybodies deciding for you when and how you can self-censor (all the time on anything that they think is a problem).  If you can't say it, it is only a tiny leap from there to "aren't allowed to even think it."  Ergo, thought police.  You are excommunicated from society.  History shows that people that are excommunicated do not have a "polite" answer to that.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131424I am fully okay with being a bigot against bigots. As said earlier, "I only discriminate against assholes."

The problem is terms like bigot and Nazi have become pejoratives like SJW, and have lost their meaning.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1131453The problem is terms like bigot and Nazi have become pejoratives like SJW, and have lost their meaning.

I admit it's frustrating as fuck to discuss the Nazis in my area and idiots think I mean it figuratively or, "people I don't like." No, I mean the people who wave the red and black flag while shooting black people at my local Kroger (which happened two years ago).

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/opinion/2018/11/09/kroger-shooting-white-people-must-stand-against-racism/1943985002/

Only idiots think there aren't people who self-identify as Nazis and want a race war.

ACTUAL Nazis.

Its fucking frustrating with my "own" side as they don't seem to realize calling the other side that misses devaluing the term and danger. When shit like this happens in your backyard and you know the white supremacist gangs, you wonder what kind of coddled entitled bullshit world these people live in.

Edit:

I mean, save it for the actual crazies like the guy who lynched a mannequin in front of Andy Beshear (our governor) while saying he was next.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/opinion/2020/05/26/andy-beshear-fine-after-symbolic-lynching-white-supremacists/5260492002/

The words Nazi and Bigot are just buzzwords that get thrown around invariably to shut people up. Nazi in particular is the name of a group that hasn't been around in three quarters of a century and almost no one alive today has ever confronted actual real Nazis--and those that did are so old, half of them may kick the bucket by the time I'm done writing this post--yet the specter of them still gets used to justify silencing people that often haven't even been proven to be actual bigots. They're just declared to be so by idiots who can't argue points, and often only heard what these "Nazis" supposedly said from third hand sources peddling rumors.

And if you press them for details they can NEVER provide a single actual example of what these supposed Nazis said that was "bigoted", yet they feel perfectly content in having them thrown out of online platforms that have become the public square of the Information Age, where all the real political discussions are made.

Every time I hear the words "Nazi" and "Bigot" my eyes just glaze over and I assume that the person using them has absolutely NO interest in discussing actual points--just declaring who gets to speak in civil society and who should rightfully get summarily shut down, the way actual bigots used to do around a century ago.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1131464The words Nazi and Bigot are just buzzwords that get thrown around invariably to shut people up.

Yeah, this is the stuff that pisses me off.

Too often it's from people who don't apparently live in the real world where people have to deal with real people who will kill you if you piss them off or are the wrong skin color/gay. Not saying you in particular but I've dealt with plenty of people who seriously think modern Nazism is an ideology that exists only in the fever dreams of Leftists. Like communist apologists in the 70s academia, it's born from people who don't want to acknowledge real killers and oppressors or extremists in their midst.

Visit Appalachia and see what our criminals and militias look like.

Or hell, just look at the links I posted.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/29/neo-nazi-rally-pikeville-kentucky-anti-fascist

Pikeville is about 20 minutes drive from my house, FYI.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131420Dave: Listen, [X] people are a drain on America's economy.

I agree with Dave.  BTW, He was referring to lawyers. ;-)

Quote from: DocJones;1131472I agree with Dave.  BTW, He was referring to lawyers. ;-)

I thought it was x = public sector employees...

Quote from: DocJones;1131472I agree with Dave.  BTW, He was referring to lawyers. ;-)

Dave was in fact referring to the Corpse-Aliens of They Live.



And that's just wrong. They are the job creators.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131465Or hell, just look at the links I posted.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/29/neo-nazi-rally-pikeville-kentucky-anti-fascist

Pikeville is about 20 minutes drive from my house, FYI.

Actually what is amusing about this is that "10 hate groups" from all over the country fit in a "20 car caravan" and had a meet in a tent I would estimate held around 60 chairs.  It's a truly pathetic turnout for any groups event.  They are pathetic and just as pathetic is the hand-wringing over it.  It's nearly as pathetic as the concern over the activities of the Westboro Baptist church with only 17 active members.
There will always be a tiny amount of idiots and to inflate a tiny amount of idiots into some huge movement is just as retarded as the few retards at this gathering.