Quote from: kythri;1083222The Fantasy Trip + The Lost Lands

What did Frog God have to do with those?  I was in the TFT kickstarter (...and am currently awaiting word that "I Want It All!" boxes have been shipped to international addresses...) and I don't recall having seen them mentioned in any of the project updates.

Quote from: Mistwell;1083228Details

Reading that, I really start feeling like I missed my calling as a professional Editor....

And since people are complaining about getting information line by line in this very thread, I'll indulge my inner loggorhea (I didn't say I could spell...) and explain what I mean with quote:

Quote from: Frog God GamesAn incident took place at PaizoCon 2017, and we address that here. Matt Finch is the partner at Frog God Games who conducted our internal investigation.

I am Matt Finch, the partner of Frog God Games appointed by the partners to investigate a sexual harassment complaint filed against Mr. Webb at Paizo Con 2017.

Aside from the constant shifting between first and third person, and singular and plural self reference throughout the text, here we have Mr Finch explaining in back to back sentances (with those same issues) who he is.  

Also the Imgur link is broken, so I can't read the actual complaint referenced, thus the somewhat elliptical talking around the content of the complaint makes the entire read almost (but not quite) a pointless waste of time, and inadvertantly makes the entire thing about three times longer than it needs to be.  Mr Finch seems to suggest he is a lawyer, but he does it 'late' and, as I said, he suggests, or rather implies, he is a lawyer rather than simply stating it.   The shifting voices and pronouns, the use of the passive voice and the roundabout makes the entire post read like he's being shifty and hiding something (the actual meaning of his text does not appear to do this, to be clear.  Its merely that he is being plain-spoken in a way that seems deceptive, which obviously is counter-productive).

What he should have done is written his introduction like so:

Quote from: Me as Mr FinchI am Matt Finch, the Partner of Frog God Games, who conducted the Internal Investigation of the incident that occurred at Piazocon 2017 involving Bill Webb.  I became involved the day of the incident when I received a call from Piazo regarding the incident, and have spoken to Piazo, Mr. Webb and the person making the Complaint...

He should then cover his exact role regarding lawyering, as I am unsure if he is FFG's lawyer, or happens to be a lawyer but does not represent FFG in that capacity (Fool for a client and all that), or just was worried that he'd come across like a lawyer if he made official sounding phone calls.  Also, he should quote the complaint directly, rather than rely on a third party hosted image with 'redactions', especially if he is in fact worried about confidentiality... as pulled quotes by definition only contain the infomation you choose to include, while the image file may contain any number of clues (metadate included) that might reveal to determined investigators something, if only because you might fail to redact an important detail!  Also, you don't have to worry about context being stripped from the post by the link breaking.

There. Now no one can complain that they had to pull the details from me, line by line.  

Quote from: nDervish;1083244What did Frog God have to do with those?  I was in the TFT kickstarter (...and am currently awaiting word that "I Want It All!" boxes have been shipped to international addresses...) and I don't recall having seen them mentioned in any of the project updates.

There was an announcement on FGG Facebook page that they are doing a partnership with SJG, where there will be TFT adventures in The Lost Lands, the campaign setting where FGG adventures and sourcebooks take place.  It's on their Facebook page, and Tenkar's Tavern had a blurb about it.

I too see no evidence of anybody complaining about this either on ENWorld or RPG.NET.  There are a few notes on the Kickstarter Update for one of the SJW projects.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warehouse23/the-fantasy-trip-adventures/posts/2466736

Based on SJ's response, it doesn't look like he is going to give in.

The thing is, Frog God has had successful Kickstarters since the quoted incident, so it doesn't appear to be affecting their bottom line at all--while some may be concerned about this, I don't believe that the folks threatening to boycott the company are affecting the bottom line.  

And it also looks like conventions are asking Bill Webb not to attend or be a special guest, so this should be what people want.  Bill is focusing on writing and running his company, and appears to be staying away from situations which could cause anybody to feel uncomfortable.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1083232So has something new happened in the 18 months since that came out? IOW, why are we having this thread now?

Because it's blowing up on the Fantasy Trip KS page by Christopher Helton and Ettin.

SJW - Social Justice Warrior or Steve Jackson World?

Everything just got a little more confusing.

Quote from: Lurtch;1083250Because it's blowing up on the Fantasy Trip KS page by Christopher Helton and Ettin.

So provide a fucking link, already.

The most I've seen is Christopher Helton and Stacy Dellorfano screaming into the wind on their twitter accounts.
https://mobile.twitter.com/dorkland
https://mobile.twitter.com/StacyRex

I'd guess that after not gaining backing to Contessa from GaryCon they've moved their aim on to Steve Jackson. They don't seem to go after anyone too big, like Paizo (who had responsibility for the con where the original Bill Webb incident occurred), probably because they figure the smaller players in the hobby are more likely to roll over and provide some tribute to Contessa as penance.

I've not seen any real pushback on Steve Jackson and Frog God in this latest matter aside from those two. They're probably just begging for somebody to attack them in such a manner that crosses some politically correct lines so that they can use their victimhood to amplify their message.

The real lesson from this is to recognize the scorpions and never give them a ride on your back across the stream. The scorpion will sting you every time.

As far as I remember SJG were really early in voicing their support for gay rights.  I recall the Pyramid article.  Back when Pyramid was a really good general purpose printed magazine.  But yeah, I wouldn't expect them to knuckle under or get bullied and scared by this.

Quote from: David Johansen;1083262As far as I remember SJG were really early in voicing their support for gay rights.  I recall the Pyramid article.  Back when Pyramid was a really good general purpose printed magazine.  But yeah, I wouldn't expect them to knuckle under or get bullied and scared by this.

Hard to say. This isn't like the CIA digging through their hard drives or In Nomine being scancalous-lite towards Christians. This is intersectional social justice wielding victimhood as a lever to gain power.
I can see them folding in the face of being called alt-right Nazi shitlords.

SJ Games is not backing down.

Quote from: Steve Jackson GamesI have read in its entirety the 2017 EN thread that Chris pointed to, and I do understand that a number of posters there are incensed at Bill Webb. To me, that does not justify SJ Games boycotting a whole company. Some very good things are coming out of our work with Frog God – three different projects are underway, and I don't expect them to be the last. If that makes you wish you had not supported our Adventures campaign, we'll work with you to refund your pledge, minus the fees already charged by Kickstarter, Stripe, and BackerKit.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warehouse23/the-fantasy-trip-adventures/posts/2466736

Quote from: wmarshal;1083258The most I've seen is Christopher Helton and Stacy Dellorfano screaming into the wind on their twitter accounts.

If I had to choose between having Frog God games as an RPG partner or having Christopher Helton and Stacy Dellorfano as an RPG partner then I would pick Frog God and just make sure I kept Bill away from the drink at the launch celebration.

Quote from: Lurtch;1083203Enworld, the Big Purple, and the rest of the mentally ill adolescents are trying to scalp SJ Games for their evil partnership with the wrong thinkers at Frog God Games.

Remember: never try to find common ground with the left. It's not possible. Ignore them. Don't engage. They are like children that will scream and kick on their beds but after 45 minutes or so they tire themselves out. Leftists hate markets because their nonsense fails at the market.

If SJ Games backs down because Phil Reed would rather be liked by the woke social media people he desperately wants to be friends with over his actual customers I'm done with that company.

And Phil, as a Gamer of Color, I don't want to see you bend the knee to these people that are not your customers!

I can easily imagine Steve Jackson in his tuxedo glory laughing at them saying, "You fools! I have faced down the Secret Service! You think that you can threaten ME!?!"

Quote from: Shasarak;1083272If I had to choose between having Frog God games as an RPG partner or having Christopher Helton and Stacy Dellorfano as an RPG partner then I would pick Frog God and just make sure I kept Bill away from the drink at the launch celebration.

In a relatively short period of time Stacy has launched diatribes against:

• Evil Hat Games
• Frog God Games
• Tenkar’s Tavern
• Lamentations of the Flame Princess
• The Diana Jones Award
• Gary Con
• Bundle of Holding
• Steve Jackson Games
• Total Con

Have I missed any? I suspect the larger gaming community is concluding it's better to stay away from the zealotry she leads at Contessa. The zealots will always find fault with anyone they cast their eye upon, because the zealot can never find anyone perfect. Sooner or later she'll find a fault, and due to any past association with with the fallen she'll try to launch a crusade to make up for the past association with the now "unclean" offender. Better to keep Contessa at a distance.

Quote from: Aglondir;1083270SJ Games is not backing down.



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warehouse23/the-fantasy-trip-adventures/posts/2466736

Good for them!

Christopher Helton's tweets seem to go after any company that has males.