...at least according to the author.
http://www.realmsofatlantasia.com
QuoteHere is a complete tome! Within these pages is all you will need to run a successful campaign on a brand new world! In here you will meet beings you have never met anywhere else; a new concept of magic-using (8 different Schools of Magic/8 different Temples of Worship), each of which have their own spells; and the most realistic fantasy-based R.P.G. on the market! There will be some constants you have met before (i.e.: goblins, trolls, ogres, etc.), however, even these have a new slant on them! And as stated, the most realistic fantasy-based game around (if you do not get your armor and weapons repaired, you could lose them in the middle of battle; if you do not care for your horse, you could lose it as your horse has Life Points as well). So have fun with this brand new world and the many new being you will meet during your adventures!
This was released along with the following ...uh...press relief from his home newspaper...
QuoteHolding his new book, Vulcan resident John Holland says words cannot describe the feeling.
"This is the culmination of 18 years of work," he said about the self-published 544-page The Game Master's Bible, which delves into the world he created, Atlantasia.
Holland had come up with his medieval fantasy world in anticipation of writing novels set in Atlantasia, but became frustrated after finding the popular RPG Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) was not challenging enough.
"When I got bored with D&D, it's like, OK, put novels on the backburner, let's get a real game going here," he said.
Holland says other companies' RPGs are "passé" and "too generic."
"To tell you the truth, I'm really not in this for the money," he said. "I'm in this to do a David and Goliath. I'm going after the big boys."
Holland wants to give them "a taste of what's to come," and what's to come, he says, is realism.
He's marketing the game as the most realistic fantasy based role-playing game (RPG) on the market.
In his game, called The Realms of Atlantasia, realism means bows are less useful in the rain, armour rusts and horses die if not cared for.
"Your weapons and your armour take damage in battle," he said. "You've got to get them repaired."
"As realistic as I can get in a fantasy-based world, we have added it in this," he said.
Like in real life, players won't find the same stores everywhere they go, and similar stores don't have the same prices and merchandise, he said.
And players have to make sure characters practise their skills or their characters won't develop as quickly as they could, said Holland.
"It's part of the realism," he said.
Holland has introduced exchange rates into his game, something he says no other role-playing game has done before.
"Something else that no one RPG game has done, and this is my pride and glory, is the magic using class," he said. "Every other game it's all generic, it doesn't matter kind of priest you are, what temple you worship, you get all the same spells. It doesn't matter what kind of mage you are, you get all the same spells.
"In this world, there are eight different temples, there are eight different schools of magic. Each one of them has their own spells."
There are 900 spells in the game, and there are many more to come, he said.
Out of the 52 monsters introduced in the game, 44 of them nobody has ever seen before, he said.
Holland has many supplementary books he wants to publish to give his game a more "3D like experience."
The supplementary materials include a dictionary for each of the languages he's come up with, atlases, and books on potions and poisons.
The game is certainly involved, with an eight-page character sheet. (The D&D fourth edition character sheet is two pages.)
Holland wasn't always sure he was going to complete even the first book, let alone others that delve into his world.
"I got halfway through the 900 spells and I thought I'm never going to get this done, and (his wife) Alisa just kicking me in the butt," he said.
He said he was getting disenchanted dealing with publishers, but when she found a company with which he could self-publish the book through IUniverse, it became a reality.
The Game Master's Bible is available online, both in print (for $44.95) and ebook (for $3.99). Holland is selling it on the website //www.realmsofatlantasia.com, the iUniverse website, //www.iuniverse.com, where it can be found by searching for The Realms of Atlantasia, and the websites of large bookstore chains including Chapters, Indigo, and Barnes and Noble. The soft cover book is $44.95, and the ebook sells for $3.99.
The next steps are to get the book into game stores in southern Alberta, and then onto the shelves in the large bookstores, he said.
Holland plans to auction a signed first edition, complete with documentation and a case, on eBay sometime in December.
He also wants to set up a game night at his Vulcan residence.
The last sentence kills me, because I know that means he doesn't have a regular gaming group, which may explain this Fantasy Heartbreaker. Totally getting a Legend of Zarrakan vibe from this guy.
On the website you can find the 8-page character sheet. In Word format. In 8 separate files.
The cover image (https://bookstore.iuniverse.com/Products/SKU-000500196/The-Realms-of-Atlantasia.aspx), btw, appears to be swiped from this guy (http://www.ciruelocabral.com.ar/).
I don't even know what to say, except I feel really sorry for this guy.
I'm not going to trample on someone who has obviously invested so much time and effort into this project.
The most i'm going to do is not buy it.
Quote from: TristramEvans;492801On the website you can find the 8-page character sheet. In Word format. In 8 separate files.
Well curious enough to have a look and god its ugly. Eye-numbingly plain documents and it includes (among other things) 12 primary attributes, 22 sorts of "magic resistance", magic item ring slots listed out by finger ("pinkie", "thumb", etc), 10 amulet slots, half a page for horse statistics for both a pack horse and a riding horse, durability and attribute scores for all your worn items like helms, gloves, etc, and another page for belt pouch contents (belt pouches #1 to #4 and a shoulder pack).
Surprisingly little space for character "career" abilities or racial abilities, and thankfully no FATAL page, but there's definitely some sort of insane equipment pack rat thing going on.
I dunno. I think this guy's a troll, actually. The book isn't actually up for sale anywhere, the website appears to be quite intentionally stuck in the 90's - to the point the guy must have gone a far bit out of the way to make it look that way.
And the front page of the site looks like someone made the map with a felt-tip pen. I've seen better maps made with mspaint - I could draw a better map, and I'm so lacking in any artistic talent, it's hilarious.
Which makes me think this has been made to look this bad on purpose.
I suppose, if anyone actually gets their hands on a completed book, I'll have to admit it was real. Maybe the purchase link is hidden somewhere I couldn't find it?
But I really don't think so, at this point.
So the guy decided the way to beat D&D is to add stuff from the elder scrolls games into his fantasy game and add things that will never be used by 99% of gm's or players that he claims simulate realism? yup tis heartbreaker alright...kinda wondering why he didnt just bung it on lulu though.
As anyone actually seen the game? I'm not convinced it actually exists yet.
Quote from: Kaldric;492814I dunno. I think this guy's a troll, actually. The book isn't actually up for sale anywhere, the website appears to be quite intentionally stuck in the 90's - to the point the guy must have gone a far bit out of the way to make it look that way.
And the front page of the site looks like someone made the map with a felt-tip pen. I've seen better maps made with mspaint - I could draw a better map, and I'm so lacking in any artistic talent, it's hilarious.
Which makes me think this has been made to look this bad on purpose.
I suppose, if anyone actually gets their hands on a completed book, I'll have to admit it was real. Maybe the purchase link is hidden somewhere I couldn't find it?
But I really don't think so, at this point.
http://www.amazon.com/Realms-Atlantasia-Game-Masters-Bible/dp/1462058566
$44.95 on amazon :)
Quote from: TristramEvans;492821http://www.amazon.com/Realms-Atlantasia-Game-Masters-Bible/dp/1462058566
$44.95 on amazon :)
Wow!! I thought Kaldric was in the right, until that link broke my faith in a rational world. Just, wow!
A sample NPC from the game:
QuotePar-traxx 0 E.P.s
Par-traxx is an enigma on Atlantasia. Here is what is known about him:
he is a Moon Elf who became the first Dragon Mage (combined with the Demi-god ChaosDragon)
he has been known to show up in many different looks and personas
he lives in the Crystal Tower which is located in the Nor-Scand Mountains
he is the idol of almost every Elven Mage
he is 5' 1" tall and weighs 79 lbs.
he is always seen with his familiar Terronis (a large black bird with red splotches in its wings)
he is always seen with a black/gold staff that is 6' high
That is what is known around Atlantasia by any who are able to read or have been to a bard's performance. Here are the things no one knows about Par-traxx:
his familiar is actually a 75' phoenix
the staff he has with him is actually the relic The Staff of the Cosmos (which he keeps with him so no one can wield its tremendous powers )
he was the one to teach the War Magi how to create their shield which absorbs energy and uses that energy to strengthen itself
he knows and can use ALL forms of magic
the biggest thing not known about Par-traxx (none of the Deities even know this) is that he is actually the avatar of the original creator of all the known universes and dimensions
Because of this last point, Par-traxx cannot be touched physically, mentally or magically. If confronted, Par-traxx will use the following tactics in order:
he will first try to talk the antagonist out of the confrontation using a logical approach
if that does not work, Par-traxx will unleash his familiar in its true form (he will cast a fireball in Terronis' direction)
if they continue to press, he will alter his own form into that of his ancient Chaos Dragon
if this fails (and the antagonist is angering Par-traxx), he will scatter their atoms across every known plane of existence and dimension, allow those atoms to retain all the knowledge of the plane of existence/dimension they were in. Then he pulls the atoms back together using the line "knowledge is power and all you seek is power so that is what I have given you; ultimate power". While Par-traxx cannot destroy anything or anybody (after all, he is THE creator), this has been known to kill any this happens to (there is 1 person who survived and now wanders Atlantasia babbling to himself as he attempts to organize all the information his mind holds now )
Par-traxx can be used to insert quests into a group (he is famous for this). He will either show up in your camp out of the blue (10% of the time) or be situated somewhere in any form you wish (he has probably used the form before so be creative; he is!) where the group will pass by him.
Website says the e-book's 4 dollors. I'd pick that up.
It all reminds me a great deal of Metascape.
The opening page says "187.112 people" like it on Facebook. That can't be real. :eek:
I never caught metascape, but I remember Imagine Role-Playing from the early 'oughts which was a similar "best rpg ever!" where the authors appear to have not read any RPG besides AD&D.
The sad thing is, this was apparently and 18 year effort for him.
Well, maybe sadder for his wife.
New, innovative, exciting and realistic.
Then names his world Atlantasia - that's about as lazy as it gets when naming important stuff.
This is to full of fail to even bother. I also bet that Par-Taxx is based on his very first D&D character.
Quote from: Lawbag;492832New, innovative, exciting and realistic.
Then names his world Atlantasia - that's about as lazy as it gets when naming important stuff.
I don't mind Atlantasia that much, but I weep for the Nor-Scand Mountains.
Quote from: stu2000;492825Website says the e-book's 4 dollors. I'd pick that up.
It all reminds me a great deal of Metascape.
Reading your posts, I've inferred you seem to like "realistic" games, like Hârnmaster, Rolemaster, Metal Magic & Lore, etc.
Well, I'm afraid this game is not for you, it would be if you were a fan of World of Synnibarr. :D
Quote from: Claudius;492841Reading your posts, I've inferred you seem to like "realistic" games, like Hârnmaster, Rolemaster, Metal Magic & Lore, etc.
Well, I'm afraid this game is not for you, it would be if you were a fan of World of Synnibarr. :D
I love Synnibar! :)
My favoritest game ever is Arduin. I absolutely do love the "hardcore realistic" games. But I also love the full gonzo. I tend not to like the things in the middle so much.
And although I respect production values, I respond more to enthusiasm. So even though they get sort of annoyingly self-congratulatory, I really enjoy some of these over-the-top heartbreakers. And since I tend to spackle over the minor rules problems as a matter of course, a game has to be both execrably designed and excruciatingly dull before I really start to hate it.
Quote from: stu2000;492842I love Synnibar! :)
My favoritest game ever is Arduin. I absolutely do love the "hardcore realistic" games. But I also love the full gonzo. I tend not to like the things in the middle so much.
And although I respect production values, I respond more to enthusiasm. So even though they get sort of annoyingly self-congratulatory, I really enjoy some of these over-the-top heartbreakers. And since I tend to spackle over the minor rules problems as a matter of course, a game has to be both execrably designed and excruciatingly dull before I really start to hate it.
If you love Synnibarr, this game might be the bestest thing ever!!
Over on Google+, Chris Helton called this "RPG Folk Art", which is a great way to look at it. It's not for me, but then neither is D&D, so no problem. Having written a 500+ page game book I respect greatly anyone who can push through it.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;492851Over on Google+, Chris Helton called this "RPG Folk Art", -clash
It's a good analogy. The hobby was built on this kind of stuff, so it's a bit rich to point and laugh at it.
Quote from: One Horse Town;492856It's a good analogy. The hobby was built on this kind of stuff, so it's a bit rich to point and laugh at it.
Exactly! My feelings to a "T"!
-clash
I don't mind the whole folk art thing but the attitude rubs me the wrong way. (yeah I know, folks in glass houses.....:D)
Regards,
David R
Quote from: One Horse Town;492856It's a good analogy. The hobby was built on this kind of stuff, so it's a bit rich to point and laugh at it.
I think most of the laughter is directed at the naive hype surrounding the product, and not the product itself. It's a bit rich to claim to have done things nobody has ever done before and that this little pebble of a game will topple the Goliath. There's a comedy to that - a tragic comedy, but a comedy nonetheless.
I think the 'folk art' analogy is excellent, and I feel for the artist in this case. He strikes me as a vertiable Don Quixote.
Quote from: flyingmice;492851Over on Google+, Chris Helton called this "RPG Folk Art"
-clash
Excellent description. Especially because his tone literally does break my heart as well. I want to laugh, but then there's the urge to cry. And how much of a bastard I would be to do either in the face of someone so painfully earnest.
Oh, the misguided purchases I'd make if I had millions of dollars in disposable income...
Quote from: TristramEvans;492823he knows and can use ALL forms of magic
the biggest thing not known about Par-traxx (none of the Deities even know this) is that he is actually the avatar of the original creator of all the known universes and dimensions
Because of this last point, Par-traxx cannot be touched physically, mentally or magically.
LOL!
"My character is can do anything and you can't hurt him in any way!"
Quote from: David R;492860I don't mind the whole folk art thing but the attitude rubs me the wrong way. (yeah I know, folks in glass houses.....:D)
Regards,
David R
Yes.
Pretty much how i feel in my glass domicile.
I wish him much happiness and success.
Quote from: One Horse Town;492810I'm not going to trample on someone who has obviously invested so much time and effort into this project.
I will however trample on him for the lousy Flash intro screen, and for his use of the term "RPG scene".
I didn't get far enough to look at the details of the game. Could be fun, who knows?
upcoming new darling at tBP perhaps? :rolleyes:
Quote from: beeber;492884upcoming new darling at tBP perhaps? :rolleyes:
Nah, they're being nastier than we are.
Most of them are oblivious to the fact that they support games and writers with worse ideas and mechanics than so far seen in this game.
Quote from: Melan;492826The opening page says "187.112 people" like it on Facebook. That can't be real. :eek:
Someone on RPG.net investigated that and couldn't find any verification of it. The Atlantasia FB Group page has 11 members.
Quote from: One Horse Town;492856It's a good analogy. The hobby was built on this kind of stuff, so it's a bit rich to point and laugh at it.
Well, movies were built on silent expressionist films, but I'd still make fun of someone who made an independent film and claimed "Colour! for the first time on your TV screen!" (assuming, which would be hard to do, that they were serious).
The character sheet is eight pages?
Not interested.
Well, I'm sure the reviews will be entertaining, even if the product isn't.
E-book bought. It's at iuniverse, if you couldn't make it through that unfortunate website.
I'm gonna take this down to the flgs and we're gonna have a good time. You'll see. You'll all see!!
Make sure you get a burro to carry the character sheets.
frankly, i find the comparison offensive to folk-art.
Quote from: Aos;492904Make sure you get a burro to carry the character sheets.
I'll name him Par-Traxx and he'll be invulnerable to snakebite, lightening, and hurtful comments.
Quote from: stu2000;492920I'll name him Par-Traxx and he'll be invulnerable to snakebite, lightening, and hurtful comments.
That last power is a *lot* of character points.
Garbage...
The comments section has animated bubbles floating across the screen! (+1)
'Course the comment box broke when I was trying to read the comments, so there's that. (-1)
I can't judge the RPG, but this website is like a nostalgia-cannon firing me back into the 90s.
(http://i.imgur.com/wdO7B.gif)
edit:
I lost it when I saw a picture of a garden-gnome amidst rubble under the "tour" of Atlantasia. If that was intentional, I have to at least give them kudos for having a good sense of humor.
Also, more relevant to the game itself:
QuoteVulcan resident finally finishes RPG book
By Stephen Tipper/Vulcan Advocate
Posted 2 days ago
Holding his new book, Vulcan resident John Holland says words cannot describe the feeling.
"This is the culmination of 18 years of work," he said about the self-published 544-page The Game Master's Bible, which delves into the world he created, Atlantasia.
Holland had come up with his medieval fantasy world in anticipation of writing novels set in Atlantasia, but became frustrated after finding the popular RPG Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) was not challenging enough.
"When I got bored with D&D, it's like, OK, put novels on the backburner, let's get a real game going here," he said.
Holland says other companies' RPGs are "passé" and "too generic."
"To tell you the truth, I'm really not in this for the money," he said. "I'm in this to do a David and Goliath. I'm going after the big boys."
Holland wants to give them "a taste of what's to come," and what's to come, he says, is realism.
He's marketing the game as the most realistic fantasy based role-playing game (RPG) on the market.
In his game, called The Realms of Atlantasia, realism means bows are less useful in the rain, armour rusts and horses die if not cared for.
"Your weapons and your armour take damage in battle," he said. "You've got to get them repaired."
"As realistic as I can get in a fantasy-based world, we have added it in this," he said.
Like in real life, players won't find the same stores everywhere they go, and similar stores don't have the same prices and merchandise, he said.
And players have to make sure characters practise their skills or their characters won't develop as quickly as they could, said Holland.
"It's part of the realism," he said.
Holland has introduced exchange rates into his game, something he says no other role-playing game has done before.
"Something else that no one RPG game has done, and this is my pride and glory, is the magic using class," he said. "Every other game it's all generic, it doesn't matter kind of priest you are, what temple you worship, you get all the same spells. It doesn't matter what kind of mage you are, you get all the same spells.
"In this world, there are eight different temples, there are eight different schools of magic. Each one of them has their own spells."
There are 900 spells in the game, and there are many more to come, he said.
Out of the 52 monsters introduced in the game, 44 of them nobody has ever seen before, he said.
Holland has many supplementary books he wants to publish to give his game a more "3D like experience."
The supplementary materials include a dictionary for each of the languages he's come up with, atlases, and books on potions and poisons.
The game is certainly involved, with an eight-page character sheet. (The D&D fourth edition character sheet is two pages.)
Holland wasn't always sure he was going to complete even the first book, let alone others that delve into his world.
"I got halfway through the 900 spells and I thought I'm never going to get this done, and (his wife) Alisa just kicking me in the butt," he said.
He said he was getting disenchanted dealing with publishers, but when she found a company with which he could self-publish the book through IUniverse, it became a reality.
The Game Master's Bible is available online, both in print (for $44.95) and ebook (for $3.99). Holland is selling it on the website //www.realmsofatlantasia.com, the iUniverse website, //www.iuniverse.com, where it can be found by searching for The Realms of Atlantasia, and the websites of large bookstore chains including Chapters, Indigo, and Barnes and Noble. The soft cover book is $44.95, and the ebook sells for $3.99.
The next steps are to get the book into game stores in southern Alberta, and then onto the shelves in the large bookstores, he said.
Holland plans to auction a signed first edition, complete with documentation and a case, on eBay sometime in December.
He also wants to set up a game night at his Vulcan residence.
http://www.vulcanadvocate.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3385763
Full of naivety? Sure. But the game's content isn't genuinely offensive, and he's not hurting anybody...so...yeah. I actually kind of want to
help the guy rather than pull the game apart. It seems like he could've used a lot of help (esp. with the publishing end of things) but decided to trudge on with just himself and his wife.
I don't know. I usually enjoy a good laugh at ridiculous things. But it's a little different when it's a dude who spent nearly two decades doing something as a labor of love rather than poking apart a "professional" book from a company like White-Wolf or something.
I feel bad for the guy. I am not getting the sense that he playtested his game which is so often the case with heartbreakers.
But I salute him for his effort, determination and guts to publish.
Well, you guys successfully made me feel guilty enough for my earlier reply that I went and got the pdf...
And thus, his cunning stratagem bears its luscious, pity-purchasing fruit! Mwaahahaha.
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;493024Well, you guys successfully made me feel guilty enough for my earlier reply that I went and got the pdf...
:duh:
well, now you'll have to give us a review. . . .
Who would win in a fight: Par-traxx or Elminster?
It would be an eternal conflict, spawning universes like sparks from their feet.
Quote from: stu2000;493133It would be an eternal conflict, spawning universes like sparks from their feet.
BRB writing Elminster/Par-traxx slash fic.
"Elminster gingerly lifted up his robes and said, 'Par-traxx...I've heard your Staff of the Cosmos is quite... magnificent.'"
Quote from: Peregrin;492978I don't know. I usually enjoy a good laugh at ridiculous things. But it's a little different when it's a dude who spent nearly two decades doing something as a labor of love rather than poking apart a "professional" book from a company like White-Wolf or something.
I just can't agree with this sentiment. For me, its just too close to the social-geek-fallacy attitude too many people already have about coming up with excuses for why customers in the industry should be happy to pay for poor quality products.
Over on TBP thread, people had some pretty hilarious comments. Then a bunch of self-righteous types* come in and ruin the fun by whining about hurting the guy's feelings.
RPGs are products. I don't care if it's put out by SUPERMEGACORP or poor schlubs like the guys who wrote FATAL in their parent's basements - a good product is a good product and a bad product is a bad product. Over-hyped marketing nonsense is worthy of mockery, no matter who it comes from.
Cutting people slack is why this industry is in such sad shape IMO. Way too many customers pay good money for products and fall all over themselves to explain why we should overlook bad production values and poor mechanical design time and time again - even attacking the people who dare make the criticisms. RPGs should be seen as, and evaluated like, any other product.
I'm glad the guy managed to get his dream published and all, but he wants customers to spend $45 on his most likely poorly written and unplaytested set of rules. If this was just something free he put up on his blog site or whatever, I wouldn't mock it. But once you put out a commercial product, you should be open to all criticism.
* My favorite part is the biggest whiner is walkerrp, a man who openly hates humanity and espouses our own extinction.
Quote from: jgants;493160I just can't agree with this sentiment. For me, its just too close to the social-geek-fallacy attitude too many people already have about coming up with excuses for why customers in the industry should be happy to pay for poor quality products.
Over on TBP thread, people had some pretty hilarious comments. Then a bunch of self-righteous types* come in and ruin the fun by whining about hurting the guy's feelings.
RPGs are products. I don't care if it's put out by SUPERMEGACORP or poor schlubs like the guys who wrote FATAL in their parent's basements - a good product is a good product and a bad product is a bad product. Over-hyped marketing nonsense is worthy of mockery, no matter who it comes from.
Cutting people slack is why this industry is in such sad shape IMO. Way too many customers pay good money for products and fall all over themselves to explain why we should overlook bad production values and poor mechanical design time and time again - even attacking the people who dare make the criticisms. RPGs should be seen as, and evaluated like, any other product.
I'm glad the guy managed to get his dream published and all, but he wants customers to spend $45 on his most likely poorly written and unplaytested set of rules. If this was just something free he put up on his blog site or whatever, I wouldn't mock it. But once you put out a commercial product, you should be open to all criticism.
* My favorite part is the biggest whiner is walkerrp, a man who openly hates humanity and espouses our own extinction.
I agree. If this person can spend 18 years working on a game and onviously has online access to sell a product via online retailers, then the fact that they could not be bothered to do even a cursory amount of market research really reflects entirely on them.
Especially when that person is selling their product based on claims about how new, innovative, and unlike any other product of that type it is. If it wasn't for the hyperbolic claims regarding how awesome they thought their game was, they never would have received the ire of a customer base, who, rightly feels that the seller is completely ignorant of the state of the industry and needs of the marketplace.
Quote from: misterguignol;493126Who would win in a fight: Par-traxx or Elminster?
O, the wizard's staff had a knob on the end.
It does! It does!
O, the wizard's staff has a knob on the end.
It does!
O, the wizard's staff has a knob on the end
And the wizard's staff is the wizard's friend.
It is! It is!
O, the wizard's staff is long and hard.
It is! It is!
O, the wizard's staff is long and hard.
It is!
O, the wizard's staff is long and hard;
And the wizard plays with it in his yard.
He does! He does!
O, the wizard's staff proves he's a man.
It does! it does!
O, the wizard's staff proves he's a man.
It does!
O, the wizard's staff proves he's a man.
he gripes it firmly in his hand.
he does! He does!
wizard staff magic is all hand play.
I see! I see!
Wizard staff magic is all hand play.
I see!
Wizard staff magic is all hand play.
he works it first this; and then thataway.
I see!
Quote from: jgants;493160I just can't agree with this sentiment. For me, its just too close to the social-geek-fallacy attitude too many people already have about coming up with excuses for why customers in the industry should be happy to pay for poor quality products.
I didn't say anything about
you. I was talking about me, man. Fire away, I don't give a fuck. I used to regularly post on 4chan up until a few years ago for Christ's sake. :-P
And I certainly wasn't implying anyone should buy the thing.
What I'm getting at here is that this is so bad I pity the damn dude, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't trash the product if I were to do a formal review.
Dunno. Maybe I'm so shell-shocked by the naivety of the dude that I just have lost the ability to be a dick about it, even if it's warranted. I almost didn't believe this was real until I saw the news article for his local area.
Quote from: Melan;492826The opening page says "187.112 people" like it on Facebook. That can't be real. :eek:
I'm calling it. Parody.
Quote from: jgants;493160I just can't agree with this sentiment. For me, its just too close to the social-geek-fallacy attitude too many people already have about coming up with excuses for why customers in the industry should be happy to pay for poor quality products.
I'm glad the guy managed to get his dream published and all, but he wants customers to spend $45 on his most likely poorly written and unplaytested set of rules. If this was just something free he put up on his blog site or whatever, I wouldn't mock it. But once you put out a commercial product, you should be open to all criticism.
I have a foot in each pond on this one.
I enjoy these kinds of projects generally and am pretty tolerant of their quirks. I bought the .pdf, and even though it reminds me way too much of the kind of product Compleat Arduin was way back when it came out, I'm reasonably sure I can squeeze a good session out of it. I'll post some AP when I do.
But when you ask anyone to take you seriously in any competitive marketplace, you have to be tough enough to deal with the reactions you get.
1. His product could have been much better conceived and executed.
2. His website's a fucking train wreck.
3. His marketplace is notoriously mean-spirited, hyper-critical, and cranky.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is, and if you're going to post stuff, and expect people to pay for stuff, you better have a sense of humor about it.
I'm essentially a decent person, and I don't believe in being brutal about making fun of people, even if they're asking for it. But I don't believe in passing up an opportunity for pefectly good-natured ribbing, either. Those things are not mutually exclusive. I am finding a lot in the material to make fun of, and I will continue to do so. But I won't deride the man for his effort or his enthusiasm.
If he turns out to be douchy about the criticism, I'll be disappointed, but I won't be disrespectful. None of my opinion lets him out of the fundamental requirement we talking about here. You have to know your market when you publish. You just have to.
So. It's time now to come up with more bawdy folk songs about his npcs. ;o)
Quote from: beeber;493119:duh:
well, now you'll have to give us a review. . . .
Okaaay...I'm not sure its super valuable since I'm trying to be nice, but I've at least skimmed it now. Its fairly quick to read (single column only, lots of spacing) though I was sort of fading in and out of consciousness by about page 300.
The system itself looks reasonably playable, nothing you haven't seen a billion times before - 1-10 stats (roll 2d10 take highest or 3d10 highest), and you get a balanced set of pluses and minuses by race and class. (I was actually surprised Elves got balanced adjustments, since their racial writeup is about how they're better than everyone else and consider humans to be pests). The usual races, race limits classes you can pick, gnomes get some ability to teleport nearby gems into their pockets making them universally distrusted, oddly enough.
The game uses percentage rolls for everything (with bonuses from stats) though it has levels as well, of course. Actually not too complex. Hit dice are per level with a CON bonus, wizards get magic points....there's something weird going on where you roll your weapon proficiency ratings with d100, though the score only modifies the actual 'to hit' score slightly. Initiative is based on who has the highest Dex, I think.
Monsters include trolls (which regenerate), green ooze, pteradactyls that are actually big hairy things, ice folk, ice giants, lots of dragons, some undead, things that look like women so no man will ever attack one, etc. Lots of NPC and magic item notes as well as bits on deities etc...the whole thing seems not particularly gonzo, really though there's a lot of detailing of magical items/spells. It reads like a huge set of campaign notes, written fairly protectively ("and you WILL be caught if you dare kill a Meridian lizard!"). The gods are kept pretty busy doing stuff like, for example, visiting PCs who have killed a unicorn and giving them the choice of which loved one of theirs the gods kill in retaliation. A number of spells (Shackles of Shame), city guards with uber magic powers, etc. are also there to keep PCs in order, whenever Par-Traxx himself is too busy I guess.
Quote from: Narf the Mouse;493184I'm calling it. Parody.
That's a distinct possibility. :cool:
The hype is so awful I had to go ahead and pick up a pdf as well. I also didn't see anything glaringly wrong mechanically other than it's way too crunchy for me. The fluff text is very pretentious, although that's easily ignored. I'm actually thinking I might be able to mine something from this for other games... amazing. Oh, and kudos to the feller for realizing a dream, I'm never gonna mock that.
That's no bawdy folk song, that's David Greenslade's Discworld CD
QuoteHolland says other companies' RPGs are "passé" and "too generic."
"To tell you the truth, I'm really not in this for the money," he said.
Well, thank god for that!
RPGPundit
Quote from: Lawbag;493299That's no bawdy folk song, that's David Greenslade's Discworld CD
Indeed :)
It sounds like something from The Onion.
Edit: Just looked at the website. Definitely looks like a spoof.
Could be a publicity stunt.
Quote from: jgants;493160Over-hyped marketing nonsense is worthy of mockery, no matter who it comes from.
Cutting people slack is why this industry is in such sad shape IMO. Way too many customers pay good money for products and fall all over themselves to explain why we should overlook bad production values and poor mechanical design time and time again - even attacking the people who dare make the criticisms. RPGs should be seen as, and evaluated like, any other product.
Very well said. Whenver I see something get hyped-up like this, especially an RPG, it's almost a sure thing that it's built on shoddy construction and someone is trying to obfuscate this.
Also, when *anybody* claims that they came up with the "perfect" ______, that kind of arrogance is put on full display and should be treated as such.
Quote from: Narf the Mouse;493370Could be a publicity stunt.
I've said it before, but if this is a hoax, it's literally the most elaborate of its type I could imagine. I mean 500+ pages of rules, a fake website and Facebook page, combined with a fake news site (that actually is navigable and has other news stories), and sales venues through a number of professional online markets.
Either way, someone had a lot of free time on their hands.
Over at TBP a person posted a pretty detailed review of parts of the game itself, and it's sad and misguided and funny. But not THAT funny.
Quote from: TristramEvans;493377I've said it before, but if this is a hoax, it's literally the most elaborate of its type I could imagine. I mean 500+ pages of rules, a fake website and Facebook page, combined with a fake news site (that actually is navigable and has other news stories), and sales venues through a number of professional online markets.
Either way, someone had a lot of free time on their hands.
Over at TBP a person posted a pretty detailed review of parts of the game itself, and it's sad and misguided and funny. But not THAT funny.
That's why I thought maybe publicity stunt.
Either this guy thought he could sell books by making himself look like a clueless moron, or someone is helping a clueless moron sell books.
I'm kind of leaning towards the former. It's a combination of competence - getting it finished, getting it up for sale, getting the word out - and cluelessness - the names, the crayon-scribbled maps, the ridiculous, overblown assertions and hype.
Basically, until I see video of this guy eating paint chips or stumbling around in an autistic haze, I'm going to assume he's too intelligent to actually believe what he's saying, and is just doing some silly marketing.
It's not a stunt. It's just a guy stuck 20 years in the past. He rewrote D&D with a percentile system, like a lot of folks did then. He added tons of spells and minutia, without really filling in improved rules for trade or overland travel or any of that kind of thing. It's his campaign notes with a marginally adjusted system. Which was a marginally viable project a long time ago.
If you look at the similarities in intent, if not awesomeness, it bears resemblence to Compleat Arduin, the percentile revision or the original Arduin Grimoire that came out in 92 or 93. In that way, it has something in common with the old school movement.
Quote from: stu2000;493394It's not a stunt. It's just a guy stuck 20 years in the past.
Isn't that when he claims to have started writing this thing though?
Quote from: beejazz;493396Isn't that when he claims to have started writing this thing though?
Yeah--he says he's been on it for 18 years. I think he's been focused on his project to the exclusion of researching his market. I do not think that's a cardinal sin as a creative person. But I do think it's going to earn him some ire and ridicule among more state-of-the-art gamers, who it seems like he'd like to be his customers. But if were more aware of his market--particularly the OSR segment--he might be able to move a few more units. Of the e-book version, anyway.
Quote from: Kaldric;493392Either this guy thought he could sell books by making himself look like a clueless moron, or someone is helping a clueless moron sell books.
I'm kind of leaning towards the former. It's a combination of competence - getting it finished, getting it up for sale, getting the word out - and cluelessness - the names, the crayon-scribbled maps, the ridiculous, overblown assertions and hype.
Basically, until I see video of this guy eating paint chips or stumbling around in an autistic haze, I'm going to assume he's too intelligent to actually believe what he's saying, and is just doing some silly marketing.
I've encountered people this creatively 'in-bred'. So far down the rabbit hole that they can no longer tell that they are even in a rabbit hole. There is also the possibility of mental instability of some sort.
My armchair physician diagnosis is high-functioning autistic or asperger's. Known a few in my time and it rings several of those bells. But this sort of fixation is generally harmless, even if prone to tugging on my tender bardic heart strings. I suspect in the future the author won't have the social grace to field the oncoming criticism as well, but this will mostly manifest in a shutting down or general confusion. The worst would be endless arguing over minutiae, but that's par for the course on the internet.
Could be worse though; if this is a hoax mocking shut-ins it's quite impressive, and the labor alone deserving of props, but a tad too real to be light-hearted. I like dark humor as much, if not more, than the rest, but it really helps when your target can take a joke or at least somewhat "get it." Poking fun of the weak who may not even understand why what they did is funny is a bit too easy for my tastes. Like kicking puppies or kittens, the shock value gets old too quickly.
Quote from: Opaopajr;493418My armchair physician diagnosis is high-functioning autistic or asperger's. Known a few in my time and it rings several of those bells.
As a high functioning autistic I say...no. Just a fucking idiot or someone playing a very elaborate prank.
An autistic person has trouble empathizing, discerning social clues, and understanding emotions. They also tend to be incredibly intelligent and obsessive about certain subjects.
This guy is (assuming it's not a prank), obviously not very intelligent, his work shows no signs of obsessive perfectionism (18 years? Pfft. I had written 30 Fantasy Heartbreakers twice that length before I was 17), and his utter ignorance on the subject of RPGs in general does not indicate any sort of obsessive involvement in the hobby.
The only "autistics" who act like this guy are those goddamn "self-diagnosed" morons.
I believe this completely straight. The Western Canadian RPG scene is kind of odd this way. I know of number of people from various parts of the Prairies that moved here and this guy would fit right in among them.
One of them told me that the summer is for going out and doing stuff, and the winter is for gaming, because you can't go outside and do anything and the winters are so long.
Quote from: daniel_ream;493466I believe this completely straight. The Western Canadian RPG scene is kind of odd this way. I know of number of people from various parts of the Prairies that moved here and this guy would fit right in among them.
One of them told me that the summer is for going out and doing stuff, and the winter is for gaming, because you can't go outside and do anything and the winters are so long.
Oddly enough I think Dostoyevsky said much the same thing in one of his letters. ;)
Quote from: IceBlinkLuck;493486Oddly enough I think Dostoyevsky said much the same thing in one of his letters. ;)
I always wondered why the first printing of
Notes From The Underground had an "I Survived The Tomb of Horrors" sticker on the back :)
Quote from: daniel_ream;493466I believe this completely straight. The Western Canadian RPG scene is kind of odd this way. I know of number of people from various parts of the Prairies that moved here and this guy would fit right in among them.
I'm tempted to say "there's reasons why I left there", but actually, I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe small town western canada, or maybe Calgary?
But Edmonton was pretty well your standard gaming scene, with fairly well informed people, and not retards who think its 1991 and D&D is the only game in existence.
RPGPundit
So this guy apparently did steal the art on the cover, at least one element of which (the dragon) was the work of the artist Ciruelo used without permission.
So, fuck feeling sorry for him. May he roast in hell with his pathetic little heartbreaker.
Quote from: TristramEvans;493624So this guy apparently did steal the art on the cover, at least one element of which (the dragon) was the work of the artist Ciruelo used without permission.
So, fuck feeling sorry for him. May he roast in hell with his pathetic little heartbreaker.
ha! BUSTED
Coming in second place to FATAL is not an accomplishment.
Quote from: B.T.;493664Coming in second place to FATAL is not an accomplishment.
Oh, it's no where near that level. There's still that despicable Racial Holy War RPG, the utterly unreadable Hybrid, and Wreaththu-something, with flower-penii.
Yeah--at least those guys were doing something odd. Well--ranging from odd to vile. This guy was doing something pedestrian, without the slightest slender thread of an idea about how to do it, creating almost a textbook case of how-not-to. Layout your book, create a usable website, don't steal. Pretty basic advice, and here's why . . .
Quote from: stu2000;493674Yeah--at least those guys were doing something odd. Well--ranging from odd to vile. This guy was doing something pedestrian, without the slightest slender thread of an idea about how to do it, creating almost a textbook case of how-not-to. Layout your book, create a usable website, don't steal. Pretty basic advice, and here's why . . .
Yeah, this is a lot more in the Ryan McCracken/World of Synnibar vein of projects - nothing wild or offensive, just plain stupid. Sadly, McCracken appears to be the better writer...
I heard a rumour that McKraken is actually a fairly likable guy, and has developed a Shatner-esque sense of tongue-in-cheek about how silly his game was... I don't know if that's true, though.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;493861I heard a rumour that McKraken is actually a fairly likable guy, and has developed a Shatner-esque sense of tongue-in-cheek about how silly his game was... I don't know if that's true, though.
RPGPundit
Back in the day he reportedly wrote some sort of angry letter directed at critics of his game, complaining that it was misunderstood like warp drive before its time or somesuch. The rpg.net reviewer who initially panned the game apparently did eventually meet him, and said he seemed to be a nice guy. He does seem to have developed an ability to laugh at himself, as judging from his current site http://ravencsmccracken.com/
QuoteRaven c.s. McCracken currently lives in Seattle, Washington, with his Welsh corgi Bannor. In his spare time, Raven enjoys wombat training, untying and retying his shoes, and terraforming the sun with dehydrated water.
Raven c.s. McCracken is perhaps best known for his creation: The World of Synnibarr. For which he has sincerely apologized, except for the Flying Grizzlies.
He offers these explanations: Choose one.
A: “There was no INTERNET!”
B: “I had a spare decade lying around.”
C: “It takes a lot of paperwork to play god.”
D: “I was thrown in a small cage, sent forward in time via the astral plane, and forced to create Synnibarr for a bunch of inbred hillbilly …uh…Viking chess masters, yes!… No wait!… Myopic alien Viking vampire speed readers on steam-powered robot ninja dinosaur ghosts secretly protecting Area 51 and the Holy Grail, from the wicked hovercraft riding pan-dimensional hypoglycemic mutant werewolf conservative shaman strippers in mystic leather tube-tops! They made me do it! If I failed, they said that the fate of every extension cord in Indonesia was at stake!”
E: “All of the above.”
I talked to McKraken on many an occasion at the LFGS (Wonderworlds, R.I.P) where he worked briefly. A nice guy and very passionate about his game!
Don't care to support this new guy though...
I like flying bears with laser eyes.
Even did a tribute to them in my supers campaign, with a character called Cynnebear.
Powergaming is not necessarily badwrongfun, and WoS isn't really much more malign-able than Rifts on that account.
Quote from: jgants;493798Yeah, this is a lot more in the Ryan McCracken/World of Synnibar vein of projects - nothing wild or offensive, just plain stupid. Sadly, McCracken appears to be the better writer...
Talk about damning someone with faint praise... Wow.
"The gods are kept pretty busy doing stuff like, for example, visiting PCs who have killed a unicorn and giving them the choice of which loved one of theirs the gods kill in retaliation."
Well, this is a cool idea.
Quote from: Reckall;494041"The gods are kept pretty busy doing stuff like, for example, visiting PCs who have killed a unicorn and giving them the choice of which loved one of theirs the gods kill in retaliation."
Well, this is a cool idea.
Oh yeah, there's some very creative consequences in the game for the players interfering with the beloved gameworld in any way. If you kill a dolphin, for example, Aquaman immediately appears and f-s up all your sh*t.
Quote from: TristramEvans;494042Oh yeah, there's some very creative consequences in the game for the players interfering with the beloved gameworld in any way. If you kill a dolphin, for example, Aquaman immediately appears and f-s up all your sh*t.
Maybe not Aquaman but Greenpeace. However an Unicorn should be a
very sacred creature or stuff, so I like the idea that something really dire happens - something more creative than the usual "you get 5lbs. of d6 of holy damage".
Quote from: TristramEvans;494042Oh yeah, there's some very creative consequences in the game for the players interfering with the beloved gameworld in any way.
I'm getting the impression that foraging for food in the Atlantasian wilderness must be sheer hell. "Hey guys, can you remember if any smite-happy godling cares about leeks or rabbits...
Don't go near that squirrel!"
Quote from: Reckall;494066Maybe not Aquaman but Greenpeace. However an Unicorn should be a very sacred creature or stuff, so I like the idea that something really dire happens - something more creative than the usual "you get 5lbs. of d6 of holy damage".
Meh an Unicorn is just a horse with some sort of birth defect, that or probalby more likely horses are the result of unicorn in breeding. In either case ride'm till they die, eat whatever good meat their is and grind the rest for glue.
Still, pretty effective way to get rid of a sibling who gave you noogies when you were 10.