Which RPG book (rule, sourcebook, adventure, whatever) do you think has the most iconic cover in the history of the hobby?
If I was a betting man, I'd say Elmore Red box D&D.
My personal favs are Holmes D&D/DCS III box cover (You never forget your first), Avalon Hill Runequest (RQ 2nd ed/Luise Perrin is not bad, either), and Star Frontiers/Elmore.
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AD&D 1E, big, red demon statue being pilfered, dead creatures nearby, party consulting map.
For me, a tie between AD&D 1e PHB, DMG, and Traveller Book 1. The DMG cover may be more equal than the others, but, like cranebump said, the PHB cover encapsulated the concept and the myth of the game.
D&D went through too many covers and too many volumes for just one to stand out as most iconic for me, so the winner is Traveller.
I'm afraid it's the Elmore dragon and fighter on the basic set box. However, the DMG and Player's Handbook are also very close behind it. I'd say the Player's Handbook is the best piece of the three but the Elmore dragon is just so recognizable. The Traveller box has a great cover but it's much more obscure and the actual booklets are better in that they're stark and minimalist. Vampire the Masquerade, with the rose on the green background is probably in fourth place.
Favorite Cover, well, that's a hard one, the first edition Warhammer box with the chaos warrior smashing the skeleton is great, it really drew me in, fantastic piece. Star Frontiers has a burning wreck, big hair and boobs, hard to argue with that. Battle Tech is a wargame but the Warhammer on the box is an incredible image. Sword Bearer should get a mention, that screaming, bleeding sword on the black background is fantastic, the game is good but I've always been disappointed that sword doesn't actually exist in the game.
It's sad but I can't think of anything more recently that has really grabbed or inspired me. Really disappointed with the art direction in D&D 3 and 4e and 5e, while nice enough doesn't evoke anything on the level of that Effrit or the guys prying the eyes out of the idol. There's a rawness and grittiness to the images. They aren't technical masterpieces but they say so much about the game.
Are you confusing iconic with "favorite" or "best artwork in my opinion"?
Quote from: cranebump;1020905AD&D 1E, big, red demon statue being pilfered, dead creatures nearby, party consulting map.
Yep.
Quote from: Dumarest;1020911Are you confusing iconic with "favorite" or "best artwork in my opinion"?
No, the most iconic is the Elmore dragon on the red box. It's meh at best as far as favorite goes. I just threw favorite into the mix because I think there are far, far better covers. They just aren't as recognizable or well know.
Quote from: David Johansen;1020918No, the most iconic is the Elmore dragon on the red box. It's meh at best as far as favorite goes. I just threw favorite into the mix because I think there are far, far better covers.
How are you measuring Iconic?
The reason I ask is while more people may have seen the red box, when it comes to things like cultural awareness, I truly think it is the PHB. You don't see Homages like this for the red box. Meantime I know of several modules that invoked the art from the 1e PHB as a homage or parody.
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Unless there's been a similar treatment of the 3rd D&D Basic Set image, I think this one wins.
Quote from: JRT;1020919How are you measuring Iconic?
The reason I ask is while more people may have seen the red box, when it comes to things like cultural awareness, I truly think it is the PHB. You don't see Homages like this for the red box. Meantime I know of several modules that invoked the art from the 1e PHB as a homage or parody.
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Unless there's been a similar treatment of the 3rd D&D Basic Set image, I think this one wins.
Ha, that is awesome.
Quote from: David Johansen;1020918No, the most iconic is the Elmore dragon on the red box. It's meh at best as far as favorite goes. I just threw favorite into the mix because I think there are far, far better covers. They just aren't as recognizable or well know.
That makes sense, especially prefaced by "I'm afraid..."
Elmore Red Box for the general public, 1E PHB (Trampier version) for the hardcore/OSR/Followers of EHP Pundit crowd. :)
One of the D&D covers no doubt. I'm not a D&D guy really, but the first that comes to mind is the red cover with a guy fighting a dragon.
However, for Scandinavians here it is probably this one:
(https://rollspelarenblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/drakar-och-demoner-box-2-0.jpg?w=948)
Quote from: Trond;1020932One of the D&D covers no doubt. I'm not a D&D guy really, but the first that comes to mind is the red cover with a guy fighting a dragon.
However, for Scandinavians here it is probably this one:
(https://rollspelarenblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/drakar-och-demoner-box-2-0.jpg?w=948)
Translated that for the English speakers: "Edgar Winter: They Only Come Out at Night: The Roleplaying Game"
Quote from: Trond;1020932One of the D&D covers no doubt. I'm not a D&D guy really, but the first that comes to mind is the red cover with a guy fighting a dragon.
However, for Scandinavians here it is probably this one:
(https://rollspelarenblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/drakar-och-demoner-box-2-0.jpg?w=948)
Probably, but to me it´s:
http://media.spelpappan.se/2017/03/drakar_och_demoner_1982.png (http://media.spelpappan.se/2017/03/drakar_och_demoner_1982.png)
I don't think there's such a thing as "most iconic" for all RPGs, but there would be at least one per RPG you're familiar with. (I don't think iconic-ness works as a one-dimensional measure; there's a cover that comes to mind for each game I think of, but it doesn't make me think of other RPGs.)
For 0D&D, I think of the cover of the first book, Men & Magic, with the guy in short-sleeve plate with a dagger in his shield hand.
For Basic D&D, I think of the blue box cover with the generic mixed-party adventurers and red dragon and the huge piles of gold coins.
I don't know for AD&D - I generically interchange the AD&D PHB (https://pocgamer.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/1eadd.jpg) and DMG (https://armchairadventurerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/dmg1st1.jpg?w=656) covers.
For Traveller, yeah, the mayday text cover pictured above.
For TFT, the cover of In The Labyrinth which used the same art as the other advanced books:
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Though I also think of the cover art from Microgame versions I started with:[ATTACH=CONFIG]2155[/ATTACH]
For GURPS, I tend to think of the 3e cover, though it's not as strong an association for me as it represents different types of characters in bubbles, and for me, GURPS isn't about using it for all sorts of settings (it's about ancient/medieval tactical combat and RP).
For Gamma World, I think of the original Gamma World box cover and the blank hex map inside.
For DragonQuest, I think of the white-background second-edition cover, which was what our local store had on the shelf forever:
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Quote from: Skarg;1020938I don't think there's such a thing as "most iconic" for all RPGs, but there would be at least one per RPG you're familiar with. (I don't think iconic-ness works as a one-dimensional measure; there's a cover that comes to mind for each game I think of, but it doesn't make me think of other RPGs.)
For 0D&D, I think of the cover of the first book, Men & Magic, with the guy in short-sleeve plate with a dagger in his shield hand.
For Basic D&D, I think of the blue box cover with the generic mixed-party adventurers and red dragon and the huge piles of gold coins.
I don't know for AD&D - I generically interchange the AD&D PHB (https://pocgamer.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/1eadd.jpg) and DMG (https://armchairadventurerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/dmg1st1.jpg?w=656) covers.
For Traveller, yeah, the mayday text cover pictured above.
For TFT, the cover of In The Labyrinth which used the same art as the other advanced books:
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Though I also think of the cover art from Microgame versions I started with:[ATTACH=CONFIG]2155[/ATTACH]
For GURPS, I tend to think of the 3e cover, though it's not as strong an association for me as it represents different types of characters in bubbles, and for me, GURPS isn't about using it for all sorts of settings (it's about ancient/medieval tactical combat and RP).
For Gamma World, I think of the original Gamma World box cover and the blank hex map inside.
For DragonQuest, I think of the white-background second-edition cover, which was what our local store had on the shelf forever:
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Those are almost all the same first ones I got.
And a guy made that D&D cover out of Legos!
AD&D PHB. It's the only cover I've seen homages to in other media, most particularly comics
Quote from: cranebump;1020905AD&D 1E, big, red demon statue being pilfered, dead creatures nearby, party consulting map.
This cover is D&D for me. The low light emitted by torches, rascals and rogues stealing everything that isn't nailed down and even the stuff that is. Classic.
Quote from: cranebump;1020905AD&D 1E, big, red demon statue being pilfered, dead creatures nearby, party consulting map.
Quote from: Baron Opal;1020906For me, a tie between AD&D 1e PHB, DMG
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1020912Yep.
Quote from: saskganesh;1020947AD&D PHB. It's the only cover I've seen homages to in other media, most particularly comics
Yeah, this.
The AD&D PHB and DMG covers. I've seen more than a few homages to those.
The B and BX D&D Covers. I've seen more than a few homages to that.
The Star Frontiers cover. I've seen more than a few homages to that.
The black Traveller covers.
Either Elmore's Basic Cover (mentzer edition) or the 1st edition PHB with the Demon idol.
You could argue that either the 1E PHB or the first basic boxed set (Holmes) basically created the hobby, in no small part because of what they looked like on a hobby shop or book store shelf. None of the others (including later BD+D boxed sets) come close.
For me it's the red box cover. No contest.
See my avatar.
Red Box, iconic enough that they tried to re-vamp it for 4e. Occasionally I see eBay listings trying to pass off the 4e for the BECMI box. That's sad. The 4e version is a travisty.
I have a three-way tie.
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This thing is all over the place....
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Quote from: saskganesh;1020947AD&D PHB. It's the only cover I've seen homages to in other media, most particularly comics
This has got to be it. It's the only one I've seen homages to outside of RPGs. It's also by far the most common one to see homages to in other RPGs. It is the RPG of the fad-era mega-popularity of RPGs too.
Several of the others mentioned here are more relevant to my own personal experience, but can't be considered as the most iconic in RPGs.
Within the hobby, the 1e cover. Outside the hobby, the Mentzer red box cover. It's the only one I recognized when I started playing, as it was in a lot of comic books in the back half of the 1980s.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;1021047This thing is all over the place....
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Agree with this one.
Another vote for AD&D 1e PHB.
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Quote from: David Johansen;1020918No, the most iconic is the Elmore dragon on the red box. It's meh at best as far as favorite goes. I just threw favorite into the mix because I think there are far, far better covers. They just aren't as recognizable or well know.
Pretty much this. Whatever is your favourite, sadly, it ain't half as iconic as this one:
(http://www.dmsguild.com/images/44/116619.jpg)
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1021233Pretty much this. Whatever is your favourite, sadly, it ain't half as iconic as this one:
(http://www.dmsguild.com/images/44/116619.jpg)
The Moldvay cover would be more iconic as it was the entry D&D during the massive fad era when the largest group was familiar with the game. Neither is really up with the 1e PHB though.....not really close for recognizable outside the hobby or referenced other places.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1021233Pretty much this. Whatever is your favourite, sadly, it ain't half as iconic as this one:
:unless of course, you mean iconic as being an icon. ;)
Then it's the AD&D 1e PHB, the only RPG cover to be recognized, copied and parodied both within the RPG hobby and without.
Over and done.
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;1021047[ATTACH=CONFIG]2160[/ATTACH]
Yeah this image is what comes to mind as the Iconic RPG image.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1021277:unless of course, you mean iconic as being an icon. ;)
Then it's the AD&D 1e PHB, the only RPG cover to be recognized, copied and parodied both within the RPG hobby and without.
Over and done.
Honestly, I've actually never seen that cover in my 30 or so years of gaming. Most of the gamers I know or met haven't either (There IS a signifigant number who have, it's like something close to 55/45.) But you could be right, I honestly don't know.
It might even be a neck and neck race between both covers.
For me it is the Elmore red box.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1021277:unless of course, you mean iconic as being an icon. ;)
Then it's the AD&D 1e PHB, the only RPG cover to be recognized, copied and parodied both within the RPG hobby and without.
Over and done.
The only other cover I've seen homage to is the Moldvay Basic cover. Since it was the game readily available during the massive explosion of popularity of D&D in the early 80s I assume it's more recognizable by the population at large than the later Menzter cover, despite Mentzer being available longer.......and possibly/probably outselling Moldvay? I've only seen a couple of those.
Christopher Brady, I think you're confusing "this was my first game that I have nostalgic association with" with "this is an icon of the game at it's peak that's the most universally recognized cover by the population at large". They aren't the same thing, not remotely. I started with OD&D, but readily accept that it's "art" is unfamiliar to most people. I played a hell of a lot of RQ in the day and consider its cover to be an icon - it'd be like the cover you refer to - well known by anyone into RPGs, but not so much outside. Same with Traveller......which is massively cool.
From a bit different perspective on art and what iconic could mean (a bit twisted, but not too far), the 1e PHB also wins on being the absolute best representation of what the game was about. That scene of a massive party of PC's and retainers cleaning a room, ready the map, stealing everything not nailed down, moving corpses, etc. really told you what the game inside did. It and the 1 DMG (mostly the back on it unfortunately with the City of Brass) have such wonderful art on the covers telling you what D&D was all about. They're extremely evocative. The less said about the 1e MM cover the better tough - seen lots of homage, or is that mockery, for it too actually! :)
Quote from: RMS;1021345... Christopher Brady, I think you're confusing "this was my first game that I have nostalgic association with" with "this is an icon of the game at it's peak that's the most universally recognized cover by the population at large". They aren't the same thing, not remotely. I started with OD&D, but readily accept that it's "art" is unfamiliar to most people. I played a hell of a lot of RQ in the day and consider its cover to be an icon - it'd be like the cover you refer to - well known by anyone into RPGs, but not so much outside. Same with Traveller......which is massively cool.
It seems to me there's no one "right" way to slice up the population to be able to clearly make "most people" statements.
Also, "iconic" could be about head counts or it could be about style, or some mix of both, and is also subjective and sliceable in different ways. There are certainly roleplayers who aren't familiar with the art from earlier editions of D&D. I regularly saw the old covers when that's what there were, and had to double-check which AD&D art was from which book - I get the DMG and PHB art mixed up, and never paid them much attention when browsing other people's copies of those books, as they both looked like demons and things which were really unlikely to appear in my games. To me they symbolize other people playing AD&D, and me giving it a look and just being repeatedly put off by everything I saw. They're icons of the advanced version of that game that seemed weird to me.
QuoteFrom a bit different perspective on art and what iconic could mean (a bit twisted, but not too far), the 1e PHB also wins on being the absolute best representation of what the game was about. That scene of a massive party of PC's and retainers cleaning a room, ready the map, stealing everything not nailed down, moving corpses, etc. really told you what the game inside did. It and the 1 DMG (mostly the back on it unfortunately with the City of Brass) have such wonderful art on the covers telling you what D&D was all about. They're extremely evocative. The less said about the 1e MM cover the better tough - seen lots of homage, or is that mockery, for it too actually! :)
The art angle for the meaning of "iconic" seems much more sensible to me than how much of "the population" recognizes it. Why would that be "twisted".
I see your point that the AD&D PHB seems like a great representation of the stereotypical D&D party doing various things to a dungeon room, which is nice and also why I too thought it's a great icon for AD&D.
To me the TFT covers I picked above for icons of TFT similarly show what the main gameplay of those games are about. Melee is about combat, and the risk of death at any time from tactical situations, as the woman behind the victor with a spear shows (if she's a foe, she may be about to kill him with a charge from the rear). Wizard is about balanced combat between wizards and fighters, nicely illustrated even if there is no "rips your face off into a bubble" spell, unless that's the Death spell. The other covers also nicely illustrate one of the main campaign experiences, again combat with tactical aspects of arranging fighters to screen against encircling more numerous foes, protecting the wizard from getting engaged, and using terrain to gain a defensive advantage. The TFT orcs seem to be given pause by the party's deployment. That's a great visual of what a typical TFT combat might be like.
For a variety of reasons... not all of them good ones, not the least of which was the era.
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Quote from: RMS;1021345The only other cover I've seen homage to is the Moldvay Basic cover. Since it was the game readily available during the massive explosion of popularity of D&D in the early 80s I assume it's more recognizable by the population at large than the later Menzter cover, despite Mentzer being available longer.......and possibly/probably outselling Moldvay? I've only seen a couple of those.
Christopher Brady, I think you're confusing "this was my first game that I have nostalgic association with" with "this is an icon of the game at it's peak that's the most universally recognized cover by the population at large". They aren't the same thing, not remotely. I started with OD&D, but readily accept that it's "art" is unfamiliar to most people. I played a hell of a lot of RQ in the day and consider its cover to be an icon - it'd be like the cover you refer to - well known by anyone into RPGs, but not so much outside. Same with Traveller......which is massively cool.
From a bit different perspective on art and what iconic could mean (a bit twisted, but not too far), the 1e PHB also wins on being the absolute best representation of what the game was about. That scene of a massive party of PC's and retainers cleaning a room, ready the map, stealing everything not nailed down, moving corpses, etc. really told you what the game inside did. It and the 1 DMG (mostly the back on it unfortunately with the City of Brass) have such wonderful art on the covers telling you what D&D was all about. They're extremely evocative. The less said about the 1e MM cover the better tough - seen lots of homage, or is that mockery, for it too actually! :)
Here's the thing, though. Which cover 'style' has TSR/WoTC reused multiple times? I've seen more variations on the red box design than anything resembling the 1e PHB.
Also, I take exception to either cover showing what D&D is about. The Fighter vs. Dragon is awesome, but completely misleading, D&D has always been a team game, and it doesn't matter how high a level a single character, even a fighter with max results on Con and Hit Die rolls is lunch meat against a dragon. And the PHB image is accurately realistic as to what happens in the game, you have the Thief/Rogue player off doing his own thing, the casters focusing on something else and the Fighter kibbitzing about, bored usually, but it's not very representative about what D&D should BE. A game in which a party of adventurers cooperate against challenges and foes.
I personally think (despite the fact that I actually kinda really like both covers myself) that they're terrible.
and yet, point to a single other RPG cover that has been used, referenced, parodied, etc in a non-RPG context.
The AD&D1 PHB is the only cover that has that distinction, which is why it is Iconic.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1021389and yet, point to a single other RPG cover that has been used, referenced, parodied, etc in a non-RPG context.
The AD&D1 PHB is the only cover that has that distinction, which is why it is Iconic.
As does the red box design. I dunno, I'll agree both are iconic, but I'm not sure as there doesn't seem to be any data claiming either is more popular.
Quote from: Skarg;1021349I see your point that the AD&D PHB seems like a great representation of the stereotypical D&D party doing various things to a dungeon room, which is nice and also why I too thought it's a great icon for AD&D.
It is D&D as presented of that era. It's brilliant in that regard. I can't think of another RPG cover that's managed to so clearly encapsulate exactly what the game inside is about as that cover. In fact, I've been a little surprise reading through various OSR stuff when that came about just how many people never "got it" the first time around and it was only 30 years later that they figured it out. The presentation inside didn't help, admittedly. ...OTH, Moldvay is iconic in presentation and lots of people never got it there either, so I dunno.... ;)
QuoteTo me the TFT covers I picked above for icons of TFT similarly ....
Sure. That's why I mentioned RuneQuest in there too. The front cover clearly illustrates a warrior bedecked with runes of her god and leads to some clear connections with the game world. If a gamesystem re-using it's front cover concept repeatedly over the years makes it iconic, then nobody has anything on that RQ cover. It's been the core concept of the cover of every subsequent version of the game.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1021392As does the red box design. I dunno, I'll agree both are iconic, but I'm not sure as there doesn't seem to be any data claiming either is more popular.
Has anyone ever made a parody or homage to that red box cover? Honestly, until this thread, I don't remember even seeing that cover. I remember the Otus covers, but ask me to remember the Menzter cover image and I couldn't tell you. Any of the BECMI covers, actaully.
I don't know what people are talking about, pointing at the Red Box cover. Sure, it's cool. Sure, that was maybe the personal gateway game for a a certain generation of gamers who roam these sorts of boards. But give me a break: there is no way it had anything like the visibility and cultural impact of the late 70's PHB and Holmes boxed set. Those things were everywhere, and drove an explosion of interest in the hobby.
The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.
I am deleting my content.
I recommend you do the same.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;1021470That property is not quite as unique to the 1st Edition PHB as you think. (http://www.rpgnow.com/images/3020/129839.jpg)
That looks more like a homage to the red box, Dragon vs. one Fighter.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;1021470That property is not quite as unique to the 1st Edition PHB as you think. (http://www.rpgnow.com/images/3020/129839.jpg)
Are you suggesting that the homage you linked is outside the hobby? That's what CRKrueger was talking about, so I assume so. If so, then you should look again as what you linked appears to be another RPG. Lots of RPGs pay homage to all kinds of previous RPGs. That's pretty meaningless.
I think the ad&d phb, and a close behind the DMG. I like the red box cover, but it is not iconic to D&D in its most recognized form (a party working together to meet a goal) and the phb cover could not be more gygax IMO.
Red box cover makes me think a bit more howard and less gygax.
Quote from: oggsmash;1021513I think the ad&d phb, and a close behind the DMG. I like the red box cover, but it is not iconic to D&D in its most recognized form (a party working together to meet a goal) and the phb cover could not be more gygax IMO.
Red box cover makes me think a bit more howard and less gygax.
Are folks confusing what what iconic means?
Quote from: Ras Algethi;1021528Are folks confusing what what iconic means?
Nope. I think maybe how broad an Icon we are looking for is a better question.
I don't think D&D should be included in this conversation simply because it's so ridiculously obvious. Most people play D&D... so you know.
Quote from: Trond;1020932One of the D&D covers no doubt. I'm not a D&D guy really, but the first that comes to mind is the red cover with a guy fighting a dragon.
However, for Scandinavians here it is probably this one:
(https://rollspelarenblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/drakar-och-demoner-box-2-0.jpg?w=948)
I was going to suggest the cover of 4th edition Stormbringer, but the above has the same art!
Quote from: oggsmash;1021530Nope. I think maybe how broad an Icon we are looking for is a better question.
Seems there are two main arguments, one is what best represents what D&D is and the other is what is most recognizable (outside of gaming circles) as D&D.
Quote from: tenbones;1021533I don't think D&D should be included in this conversation simply because it's so ridiculously obvious. Most people play D&D... so you know.
Agreed.
I was going to say CP2020, but it's just obvious that it's going to be D&D in some form. Probably 2nd Ed.
Quote from: Ras Algethi;1021537Seems there are two main arguments, one is what best represents what D&D is and the other is what is most recognizable (outside of gaming circles) as D&D.
heh, in that case,whatever has been most prominently shown on Stranger Things is going to be the most iconic to non gamers.
For most people, I'd say it's the 1e AD&D PHB cover. For me, it was the Erol Otus Basic cover.
Quote from: oggsmash;1021546heh, in that case,whatever has been most prominently shown on Stranger Things is going to be the most iconic to non gamers.
Yeah, I just think we're seeing folks talk past each other at this point.
Quote from: Ras Algethi;1021554Yeah, I just think we're seeing folks talk past each other at this point.
I still think fearsomepirate and I had it right, although I'd broaden the 1E PHB Trampier cover to "within the hobby and adjacent 'geek' circles."
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1021556I still think fearsomepirate and I had it right...
I am sure everyone thinks their answer was right....
Quote from: CanBeOnlyOne;1021535I was going to suggest the cover of 4th edition Stormbringer, but the above has the same art!
As a swede that was the cover my heart really wanted to pick.
Quote from: Ras Algethi;1021528Are folks confusing what what iconic means?
Yes. There's the art/symbolic meaning, and then the pop/industry use.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1021542Agreed.
I was going to say CP2020, but it's just obvious that it's going to be D&D in some form. Probably 2nd Ed.
Good call on CP2020. Pretty iconic for me too. Palladium Fantasy 1e too.
Yeah, I think it would have to be a runoff between the AD&D PHB and the Red-box basic Elmore cover.
Quote from: cranebump;1020905AD&D 1E, big, red demon statue being pilfered, dead creatures nearby, party consulting map.
This gets my vote.
The demon statue is recognizable to gamers and non gamers alike as D&D. The red dragon image doesn't have nearly as much traction.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1021995Yeah, I think it would have to be a runoff between the AD&D PHB and the Red-box basic Elmore cover.
I would say the Easley PHB/DMG covers got a lot of traction around my parts that was equal to these. But that Red-box cover is damn hard to beat. I have a lot of personal love for that one.
I used to study the AD&D PHB cover. Loving all the details.
Edit: this is why we should rename the thread to the Most Iconic D&D cover.
Quote from: tenbones;1022143Edit: this is why we should rename the thread to the Most Iconic D&D cover.
Love it or hate it, D&D is the 80,000-lb. dragon in the hobby. After the early years, only the World of Darkness ever came close to challenging it in the US, at least. (Pathfinder doesn't count--that's D&D in everything but name-brand, and got most of its start by being able to leave distribution channels, name recognition, etc. built up over years of supporting 'official' D&D.)
Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;1021047This thing is all over the place....
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ok, A) what the hell is this book here?
and b) I just need to share this...
https://i.imgur.com/PDlkxPQ.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/PDlkxPQ.jpg)
Quote from: remial;1022197ok, A) what the hell is this book here?
and b) I just need to share this...
https://i.imgur.com/PDlkxPQ.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/PDlkxPQ.jpg)
A) No idea, I found that when I did an image search for the old AD&D 1E PHB cover. Looks like it might involve...
... furries???
B) You ninja'd me on that one cuz I found it about 20 minutes after you posted. I would totally play that!
Quote from: Manic Modron;1022128The demon statue is recognizable to gamers and non gamers alike as D&D. The red dragon image doesn't have nearly as much traction.
I suspect that would be true, but I'd be curious to test just how many normies recognize and correctly identify one image vs the other.
I don't think the normies would correctly identity either one specifically as much as the red demon statue would get "that's some d&d thing" and the red dragon cover wouldn't be recognized as a professional cover at all. It might be viewed as "somebody's d&d art," but not as anything official.
Might be worth quizzing my group with Saturday, though.
Quote from: Skarg;1020938I don't think there's such a thing as "most iconic" for all RPGs, but there would be at least one per RPG you're familiar with. (I don't think iconic-ness works as a one-dimensional measure; there's a cover that comes to mind for each game I think of, but it doesn't make me think of other RPGs.
Though I also think of the cover art from Microgame versions I started with:
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I find the covers of the versions I started with more iconic for The Fantasy Trip:
Spoiler
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Not popular enough a game to be generally iconic for RPGs, but still a favorite.
For D&D, I'm partial to the Greyhawk supplement cover with the beholder.
Quote from: Skarg;1021349To me the TFT covers I picked above for icons of TFT similarly show what the main gameplay of those games are about. Melee is about combat, and the risk of death at any time from tactical situations, as the woman behind the victor with a spear shows (if she's a foe, she may be about to kill him with a charge from the rear). Wizard is about balanced combat between wizards and fighters, nicely illustrated even if there is no "rips your face off into a bubble" spell, unless that's the Death spell. The other covers also nicely illustrate one of the main campaign experiences, again combat with tactical aspects of arranging fighters to screen against encircling more numerous foes, protecting the wizard from getting engaged, and using terrain to gain a defensive advantage. The TFT orcs seem to be given pause by the party's deployment. That's a great visual of what a typical TFT combat might be like.
The original covers captured the essence of those two Microgames well. (I think better, but likely because they were the ones I started with.) That's a decent standard for iconic for a less known game.
Quote from: rawma;1022642I find the covers of the versions I started with more iconic for The Fantasy Trip:
Spoiler
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The original covers captured the essence of those two Microgames well. (I think better, but likely because they were the ones I started with.) That's a decent standard for iconic for a less known game.
Yeah, I started with the other covers, and never owned those earlier ones, but I'd probably associate the game with whatever covers I had first.
There are loads that I love, but the ones that really stand out for various reasons are these two guys
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Quote from: Mike the Mage;1022841There are loads that I love, but the ones that really stand out for various reasons are these two guys
I wonder what the third cover would have been, if the D&D
Companion continued the sequence.
Original 1E AD&D Players Handbook cover (demon idol)
BECMI red box, no doubt. That or the 1E PHB.
(Personal) Honorable mention: the first D&D I ever owned, of course! Below, the Brazillian version of the Dennings black box released here by Grow back in 1994. :)
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Quote from: RF Victor;1022931BECMI red box, no doubt. That or the 1E PHB.
(Personal) Honorable mention: the first D&D I ever owned, of course! Below, the Brazillian version of the Dennings black box released here by Grow back in 1994. :)
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It's honestly (to me) amazing how often variations of single fighting hero versus a dragon game covers there are.
This is why I personally think that the red box Elmore cover is more iconic, because it has been aped and copied for as long as RPG's has existed.
Am I right? Flarked if I know, but that's why I believe it is.
Quote from: RF Victor;1022931BECMI red box, no doubt. That or the 1E PHB.
(Personal) Honorable mention: the first D&D I ever owned, of course! Below, the Brazillian version of the Dennings black box released here by Grow back in 1994. :)
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The Brazilian market always blows my mind. It always makes me question why there was such an effort to translate and bring in product to the Brazilian market compared to that of the rest of Latin America. You'd think Spanish would have been a pick over Portuguese, but nope.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1023186The Brazilian market always blows my mind. It always makes me question why there was such an effort to translate and bring in product to the Brazilian market compared to that of the rest of Latin America. You'd think Spanish would have been a pick over Portuguese, but nope.
The effort to translate and bring in product was not made by TSR itself or any of the other companies; There was no latin american "localization plan." Brazilian publishers themselves went after the rights.
Peripheral to the core hobby of course, but in the UK at least, this was pretty huge.
(https://gamebooks.org/gallery/figfan01.jpg)
AD&D PHB , IMO.
But Fighter x Red dragon seems to be really, really popular.
Not that is MY favorite.
I'm not even that much into AD&D...
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Also:
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Quote from: RF Victor;1023196The effort to translate and bring in product was not made by TSR itself or any of the other companies; There was no latin american "localization plan." Brazilian publishers themselves went after the rights.
On a tangential note, can you explain why Ravenloft was such a hit in Brazil?
Quote from: Pat;1022863I wonder what the third cover would have been, if the D&D Companion continued the sequence.
I´ve never tought about it, but I´d love to see that!
Is Otus still alive, maybe we could ask him?
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1023289On a tangential note, can you explain why Ravenloft was such a hit in Brazil?
I don't think it was a hit, actually. We've had only 3 Ravenloft releases: the Domains of Dread hardcover back in the 90's (as "Domínios do Medo") and years later just the 3.0 version of the S&S setting and mosnter book, Ravenloft and Denizens of Darkness (as "Nativos das Trevas").
Quote from: RF Victor;1023301I don't think it was a hit, actually. We've had only 3 Ravenloft releases: the Domains of Dread hardcover back in the 90's (as "Domínios do Medo") and years later just the 3.0 version of the S&S setting and mosnter book, Ravenloft and Denizens of Darkness (as "Nativos das Trevas").
Curious. Back in the 90s, there was a notable Brazilian presence in the online fanbase and contributors to the Kargatane Netbooks.
I don't think any other cover has had as many homages to it as the First Edition Player's Handbook. Stuff like this (https://imgur.com/gallery/tOzqY). You don't see that with other covers.
Quote from: Motorskills;1023201Peripheral to the core hobby of course, but in the UK at least, this was pretty huge.
(https://gamebooks.org/gallery/figfan01.jpg)
Fighting Fantasy was HUGE in Brazil too! Here the series was called "Aventuras Fantásticas" ("Fantastic Adventures") and the Introductory RPG was the first RPG for many of us: it was cheap and you could find it everywhere, in regular bookstores (so: pretty much the same model that made it a winner in the UK!) For a long time you could only buy RPG books from specialty RPG shops and a few comic stores, and we had very few of them.
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For a long time nobody had any idea that this Steve Jackson wasn't the same as the guy from GURPS -- the undisputed KING of RPGs until Vampire and AD&D arrived years later. And our GURPS at that point looked like some sort of psychology book! :D
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I think another iconic cover was not a book per se, but the cover to the original Ravenloft module which was borrowed (https://nerdvanamedia.com/gaming/castlevania-ravenloft-dungeons-dragons/121013/) for Castlevania.
Quote from: RF Victor;1023307Fighting Fantasy was HUGE in Brazil too! Here the series was called "Aventuras Fantásticas" ("Fantastic Adventures") and the Introductory RPG was the first RPG for many of us: it was cheap and you could find it everywhere, in regular bookstores (so: pretty much the same model that made it a winner in the UK!) For a long time you could only buy RPG books from specialty RPG shops and a few comic stores, and we had very few of them.
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And yet another cover of a fighting man vs. a dragon...
Quote from: remial;1022197ok, A) what the hell is this book here?
I'm pretty sure that was in a joke section in an April (Fools) issue of Dragon... Yep, did some digging and it's issue 120.
How in the fuck has this not been posted yet:
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/whitewolf/images/f/f3/Vtmrevised.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170307231039)
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1023754How in the fuck has this not been posted yet:
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/whitewolf/images/f/f3/Vtmrevised.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170307231039)
More like "Why the fuck has this been posted!"
:D Just kidding.
Out of all of them, first edition AD&D player's handbook comes across as the most iconic. It's not my favorite by a long shot, but probably most iconic.
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1023754How in the fuck has this not been posted yet:
That was an iconic cover, but dear god the interior was atrociously illegible.
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Move aside....
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1023289On a tangential note, can you explain why Ravenloft was such a hit in Brazil?
Was it? It sure wasn't anywhere else in Latin America that I know of.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1024527Was it? It sure wasn't anywhere else in Latin America that I know of.
I think I was drawing unwarranted conclusions from some active Brazilian members of the online fanbase in the late 90s/early 00s.
Fair enough. I know that in Argentina and Uruguay the big games were D&D (starting mainly with 2e) and Vampire/WoD for quite a long while. I know GURPS was hugely popular in Brazil but not so much anywhere else. CoC became quite popular in the early 2000s.
A few other games became popular here just by virtue of having become available. Falkenstein and L5R, for example, just because books arrived.
Of course, in the last 10 years or so, with PDFs and PoD and easier shipping, all kinds of games have become popular.
Single fighter facing off against a dragon is a pretty old set up. It doesn't seem iconic to roleplaying as much as it is iconic to European myth and fantasy in general.
Quote from: Manic Modron;1025239Single fighter facing off against a dragon is a pretty old set up. It doesn't seem iconic to roleplaying as much as it is iconic to European myth and fantasy in general.
Yeah. It's true. That cover is a parallel to the icon of St. George and the Dragon.