A One Page summary of the Midlands - a Low Magic Sandbox Setting I'm in the process of writing. Appreciate any feedback!
https://lowfantasygaming.com/2016/12/02/the-midlands-in-one-page/
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What's your aspiration? I can't really give feedback if I don't know what your aspiration is.
Looks good to me:).
The Midlands of Low Fantasy? :D
Quote from: CRKrueger;933526The Midlands of Low Fantasy? :D
Next door to the Lowlands of High Fantasy, I assume. Either way, my character is coming from the gutter.:-)
Looks pretty good. The main thing that seemed a little odd was the religion section's way of saying the gods were silent. Is that in contrast to them being flashy interventionists in the first or second ages, or is at meant as a more-OOC contrast to some other game settings?
Quote from: Ashakyre;933506What's your aspiration? I can't really give feedback if I don't know what your aspiration is.
Hmm, well, mainly I wanted something the opposite of the Forgotten Realms - dangerous cities, dangerous wilderness, low magic, and not "everything and the kitchen sink". I played Dark Sun recently (and many years ago) and really liked the harsh wilderness aspect of that, but I didnt want to go with deserts etc. I do want travel between the cities to be genuinely perilous, something that is not lightly undertaken, similar to Dark Sun. I guess I'm going for a point of light style medieval cities, surrounded by savage wilderness, with dark/rare magic.
Edit - oh yeah and I want to make something that really helps the GM to improvise in a sandbox type setup. Lots of tables/tools/mini adventures to help the GM when the players say for example "we go west, what do we find?"
Quote from: Skarg;933544Looks pretty good. The main thing that seemed a little odd was the religion section's way of saying the gods were silent. Is that in contrast to them being flashy interventionists in the first or second ages, or is at meant as a more-OOC contrast to some other game settings?
Ah yeah I am trying to indicate an OOC contrast to other settings. I am writing this setting for Low Fantasy Gaming RPG, which has no cleric class. The cure spells are mixed into the magic user list instead. If you were to adapt it for something like 5e, you could still play a cleric, but you'd either tweak the lore, or say that particular character is getting divine magic somehow (similar to Dragonlance), and so on.
Instead of the gods being silent, maybe the gods must be appeased to stay silent...
I like the idea of an Inverse FR setting.
Would you cut and paste the text into the thread? There's some suggestions I might make but I can't grab the text from the image.
Looks very cool. Do you have a rough idea of how the overall page count is going to be?
You know, we have one page dungeon contests- a real test would be one page sandbox or hexcrawl:)
Quote from: Spinachcat;933563Instead of the gods being silent, maybe the gods must be appeased to stay silent...
Cabin In The Woods vibe. I can dig it.
This setting reminded me of something that's really common in fantasy that I struggled with in my own setting: you've got big cities and then tiny villages in the middle of nowhere and howling wilderness and none of the intensive agriculture needed to support the cities. In a lot of fantasy movies you've got forest or empty fields right up to the city gates.
For this setting I'm thinking large semi-fortified plantations ringing the large cities with scowling whip-bearing overseers.
Also for a setting with no inns away from the cities what people would do is stay at people's homes, which is a lot more interesting than staying at a glorified motel. So many interesting plots start in Viking sagas with a traveler staying at someone's home and then getting involved in drama because of that. If you haven't read the Icelandic Sagas here's an excellent translation of some of the more famous ones: https://www.amazon.com/Sagas-Icelanders-Penguin-Classics-Deluxe/dp/0141000031 with the saga of Egil Skalagrimson being especially good, but it doesn't include the more fantastical ones that are looked down on by lit profs but which make great D&D idea mines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legendary_saga)
Quote from: Ashakyre;933588Would you cut and paste the text into the thread? There's some suggestions I might make but I can't grab the text from the image.
Sure thing here it is:
Human Dark Ages
The Midlands most closely resemble the western dark ages, mixed with parts of the ancient world and last ice age. Humans of five cultures contest the region; Midlanders, Nydissians, Varnori, Karoks and barbarians. There are no elves, dwarves or similar in the default setting.
Deadly Wilderness
Travel across the Midlands is genuinely dangerous. Outside fortified civilization, the wilderness is claimed by man eating beastmen, ferocious barbarians and savage beasts. The vast majority of the region is uncharted; there are few roads to guide explorers and no remote inns to provide respite.
Grim Cities
Cities might be safer than the bestial wilds, but these dens of iniquity harbour their own perils. Life is cheap, and corruption, brutality and exploitation rule the streets. Nobles, caught up in their machinations for power, care nothing for the struggles of the common man. So called justice is harsh and unforgiving, for sale to the highest bidder or exacted through vengeful blades in back alleys. Despite it all, new rivals for wealth and power rise each day, grasping for opportunity.
Ancient Secrets
In the Third Age, five human nations oversee the Midlands, but these are merely the most recent caretakers. In the Second Age, earlier societies ruled, as did beastmen, cyclops and other races whose ruins still linger in the wilds. Of the First Age, precious little is known, but in the darkest corners some whisper of strange and inscrutable beings, their names long lost to the annals of time.
Silent Gods
Whether the gods exist is a matter of endless debate between the wise and unwise alike, but if the pantheon hear their faithful, they deign no response. The Midland deities are utterly silent; granting no miracles nor intervening in the physical world. Nonetheless, religious rites and beliefs are integral to Midlands society and day to day life.
Low Magic
Magic is rare, dark and dangerous. Most commoners will never witness a spell being cast, yet many experience glimpses of the fantastic throughout their lives. True sorcerers are exceptional; most towns have none, and even the largest cities conceal but a few. Unnatural creatures are known, but tend to be unique individuals or isolated tribes. Permanent magic items are custom pieces and likely herald from a past age; once forged they are remarkably difficult to destroy.
Sandbox Support
The Midlands are incomplete. Some cities, nations and terrain features are noted (the map is approx. 400 x 300 miles), but there is ample room for GMs to add details and make the setting their own. The primary purpose of this book is to provide a campaign starting point, and equip the GM with the tools necessary to improvise and expand as desired.
Quote from: RunningLaser;933597Looks very cool. Do you have a rough idea of how the overall page count is going to be?
You know, we have one page dungeon contests- a real test would be one page sandbox or hexcrawl:)
I'm not sure on page count as yet but I dont think it will be possible to turn into one page!
Quote from: Daztur;933641This setting reminded me of something that's really common in fantasy that I struggled with in my own setting: you've got big cities and then tiny villages in the middle of nowhere and howling wilderness and none of the intensive agriculture needed to support the cities. In a lot of fantasy movies you've got forest or empty fields right up to the city gates.
For this setting I'm thinking large semi-fortified plantations ringing the large cities with scowling whip-bearing overseers.
Also for a setting with no inns away from the cities what people would do is stay at people's homes, which is a lot more interesting than staying at a glorified motel. So many interesting plots start in Viking sagas with a traveler staying at someone's home and then getting involved in drama because of that. If you haven't read the Icelandic Sagas here's an excellent translation of some of the more famous ones: https://www.amazon.com/Sagas-Icelanders-Penguin-Classics-Deluxe/dp/0141000031 with the saga of Egil Skalagrimson being especially good, but it doesn't include the more fantastical ones that are looked down on by lit profs but which make great D&D idea mines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legendary_saga)
I'll check out those Sagas, thanks Daztur. I am kind of imagining the fortified cities/towns as being surrounded by fields the frontiers of which are patrolled/kept clear of beastmen and so on. My gut feeling is permanent villages wont exist - they crop up to take advantage on some resource temporarily, or develop into a defensible town or otherwise are eventually overrun.
I love the whip masters idea, I have one of the cultures picked out for that already ;)
Quote from: Thornhammer;933635Cabin In The Woods vibe. I can dig it.
Freaking love that movie so much. Especially the ending.
Quote from: Psikerlord;933655I'll check out those Sagas, thanks Daztur. I am kind of imagining the fortified cities/towns as being surrounded by fields the frontiers of which are patrolled/kept clear of beastmen and so on. My gut feeling is permanent villages wont exist - they crop up to take advantage on some resource temporarily, or develop into a defensible town or otherwise are eventually overrun.
I love the whip masters idea, I have one of the cultures picked out for that already ;)
Really like the idea of D&D people actually acting like they're under constant threat. Some things people have done historically:
-Turn their homes into mini-castles like so: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/black-middens-bastle-house
-Bribe the raiders to raid somewhere else instead.
-Farm potatoes: even if everything is burned the spuds are still safe in the dirt.
-It's really hard to fortify enough farmland to feed a city but often it's easier to keep the raiders from getting OUT than it is to keep the raiders from getting in. Have signal fires, border outposts, etc. and focus on intercepting raiders trying to get home.
-Not how they were used historically but I like the idea of something like Korean gargoryles being used to magically demarkate the borders between the wilds and the lands of men: http://www.antiquealive.com/Blogs/Jangseung_Korean_village_guardian.html
-Maybe even Aztec-style lake farming on artificial islands: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinampa
Quote from: Daztur;933704Really like the idea of D&D people actually acting like they're under constant threat. Some things people have done historically:
-Turn their homes into mini-castles like so: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/black-middens-bastle-house
-Bribe the raiders to raid somewhere else instead.
-Farm potatoes: even if everything is burned the spuds are still safe in the dirt.
-It's really hard to fortify enough farmland to feed a city but often it's easier to keep the raiders from getting OUT than it is to keep the raiders from getting in. Have signal fires, border outposts, etc. and focus on intercepting raiders trying to get home.
-Not how they were used historically but I like the idea of something like Korean gargoryles being used to magically demarkate the borders between the wilds and the lands of men: http://www.antiquealive.com/Blogs/Jangseung_Korean_village_guardian.html
-Maybe even Aztec-style lake farming on artificial islands: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinampa
Haha that potatoes plan is excellent, I shall be using that!!
Quote from: Psikerlord;933810Haha that potatoes plan is excellent, I shall be using that!!
It's amazing how much of a difference potatoes can make. Helped keep a lot of central European peasants alive through a lot of wars since it's MUUUUUUUCH easier to starve peasants by trashing their wheat field than their potato field. Also pretty much the best crop there is in terms of getting a lot of calories without much labor or land. And potato vodka for all...
And then you get fantasy potato famines...
Quote from: Psikerlord;933560Ah yeah I am trying to indicate an OOC contrast to other settings. I am writing this setting for Low Fantasy Gaming RPG, which has no cleric class. The cure spells are mixed into the magic user list instead. If you were to adapt it for something like 5e, you could still play a cleric, but you'd either tweak the lore, or say that particular character is getting divine magic somehow (similar to Dragonlance), and so on.
I see, thanks. So I would just be careful about the difference between how you describe that OOC for players trying to understand that, and an IC introduction where presumably most people do follow their religion and aren't miffed they don't get super powers, or going on quests to find out who locked up their super hero gods or where they can get their clerical magic. Just a thought. :)
Quote from: Skarg;933853I see, thanks. So I would just be careful about the difference between how you describe that OOC for players trying to understand that, and an IC introduction where presumably most people do follow their religion and aren't miffed they don't get super powers, or going on quests to find out who locked up their super hero gods or where they can get their clerical magic. Just a thought. :)
Thanks Skarg, yeah I think I might end up with one flavourful intro, and one OC/mechanics intro elsewhere.
Don't use the phrase "den of iniquity". Everyone knows where it comes from. It's a cliche now.
Quote from: Arminius;933862Don't use the phrase "den of iniquity". Everyone knows where it comes from. It's a cliche now.
Where does it come from!?
Quote from: RunningLaser;933597Looks very cool. Do you have a rough idea of how the overall page count is going to be?
You know, we have one page dungeon contests- a real test would be one page sandbox or hexcrawl:)
There was actually a bit of a fad for four-page sandboxes a few years back, and I find it's a really fun way to get setting ideas out of my head and onto paper.
e.g. http://aeonsnaugauries.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/how-much-campaign-do-you-need.html; there was a good forum thread somewhere but I have far too many RPG bookmarks to find it.
Obviously, take all of this with a grain of salt because I am, after all, just a person on the internet.
Quote from: Psikerlord;933652Human Dark Ages The Midlands most closely resemble the western dark ages, mixed with parts of the ancient world and last ice age. Humans of five cultures contest the region; Midlanders, Nydissians, Varnori, Karoks and barbarians. There are no elves, dwarves or similar in the default setting.
I almost feel like you'd want to say something like "various barbarian tribes" - we get all these capitalized names and when we get to barbarians its sounds as though that's their proper name.
Quote from: Psikerlord;933652Deadly Wilderness Travel across the Midlands is genuinely dangerous. Outside fortified civilization, the wilderness is claimed by man eating beastmen, ferocious barbarians and savage beasts. The vast majority of the region is uncharted; there are few roads to guide explorers and no remote inns to provide respite.
If you wrote "savage animals" you wouldn't be using the "beast" word twice in one sentence and it would roll off the tongue easier. Or "monsters" - whatever communicates your vision.
Quote from: Psikerlord;933652Grim Cities Cities might be safer than the bestial wilds, but these dens of iniquity harbour their own perils. Life is cheap, and corruption, brutality and exploitation rule the streets. Nobles, caught up in their machinations for power, care nothing for the struggles of the common man. So called justice is harsh and unforgiving, for sale to the highest bidder or exacted through vengeful blades in back alleys. Despite it all, new rivals for wealth and power rise each day, grasping for opportunity.
"Dens of iniquity" is a bit of an awkward phrase. What is that supposed to evoke? "Dens of villainy" or "Dens of corruptions" we can imagine something... but the word "inequity" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Nitpicking, but "Nobles, caught up in their machinations for power, care nothing for the struggles of the common man" irks me... makes me feel like some Aaron Copeland is going to break out any second. Maybe be more visual? "Nobles, caught up in their machinations for power, ignore a city's crumbling architecture." Is this an industrial age working class hero kind of thing? Has a working class consciousness actually materialized? Perhaps its something like this: ""Nobles, caught up in their machinations for power, and the man of the street, struggling to survive, hardly notice the other." Just a thought.
Justice would sound a lot more harsh and unforgiving if you removed the words "so-called." "Justice is harsh and unforgiving, for sale to the highest bidder or exacted through vengeful blades in back alleys."
Quote from: Psikerlord;933652Ancient Secrets In the Third Age, five human nations oversee the Midlands, but these are merely the most recent caretakers. In the Second Age, earlier societies ruled, as did beastmen, cyclops and other races whose ruins still linger in the wilds. Of the First Age, precious little is known, but in the darkest corners some whisper of strange and inscrutable beings, their names long lost to the annals of time.
Are they really caretakers? Doesn't sound like anybody takes care of anything but themselves. Also, ruins do not linger. How about "whose former dwellings, now ruins, are scattered in the wilds."
Quote from: Psikerlord;933652Silent Gods Whether the gods exist is a matter of endless debate between the wise and unwise alike, but if the pantheon hear their faithful, they deign no response. The Midland deities are utterly silent; granting no miracles nor intervening in the physical world. Nonetheless, religious rites and beliefs are integral to Midlands society and day to day life.
Slightly awkward phrasing. How about "The wise and unwise alike debate the existence of silent gods. If the pantheon hear the faithful, they deign no response, grant no miracles, and do not intervene in the affairs of men. Desperate, Midlanders cling to rite and ritual, their only source of hope."
Quote from: Psikerlord;933652Low Magic Magic is rare, dark and dangerous. Most commoners will never witness a spell being cast, yet many experience glimpses of the fantastic throughout their lives. True sorcerers are exceptional; most towns have none, and even the largest cities conceal but a few. Unnatural creatures are known, but tend to be unique individuals or isolated tribes. Permanent magic items are custom pieces and likely herald from a past age; once forged they are remarkably difficult to destroy.
"...and even the largest cities conceal but a few." Looks like you're trying to express two ideas at once. How about "...and even the largest cities are home to but a few, keeping their status as sorcerers a closely guarded secret."
Quote from: Psikerlord;933652Sandbox Support The Midlands are incomplete. Some cities, nations and terrain features are noted (the map is approx. 400 x 300 miles), but there is ample room for GMs to add details and make the setting their own. The primary purpose of this book is to provide a campaign starting point, and equip the GM with the tools necessary to improvise and expand as desired.
I would reorder this paragraph and frame it all positively. Start off that bat with something like "This book provides a campaign starting point, and equips the GM with the tools necessary to improvise and expand as desired. Many details are left open, encouraging the GM to customize the setting as suits his or her needs."
Quote from: Arminius;933862Don't use the phrase "den of iniquity". Everyone knows where it comes from. It's a cliche now.
What were you referring to: the New Testament (indirectly), or various 1800s texts and songs?
Either way, cliche or not, I don't that's something everybody (or even most) knows.
Quote from: Ashakyre;933889Obviously, take all of this with a grain of salt because I am, after all, just a person on the internet.
I almost feel like you'd want to say something like "various barbarian tribes" - we get all these capitalized names and when we get to barbarians its sounds as though that's their proper name.
If you wrote "savage animals" you wouldn't be using the "beast" word twice in one sentence and it would roll off the tongue easier. Or "monsters" - whatever communicates your vision.
"Dens of iniquity" is a bit of an awkward phrase. What is that supposed to evoke? "Dens of villainy" or "Dens of corruptions" we can imagine something... but the word "inequity" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Nitpicking, but "Nobles, caught up in their machinations for power, care nothing for the struggles of the common man" irks me... makes me feel like some Aaron Copeland is going to break out any second. Maybe be more visual? "Nobles, caught up in their machinations for power, ignore a city's crumbling architecture." Is this an industrial age working class hero kind of thing? Has a working class consciousness actually materialized? Perhaps its something like this: ""Nobles, caught up in their machinations for power, and the man of the street, struggling to survive, hardly notice the other." Just a thought.
Justice would sound a lot more harsh and unforgiving if you removed the words "so-called." "Justice is harsh and unforgiving, for sale to the highest bidder or exacted through vengeful blades in back alleys."
Are they really caretakers? Doesn't sound like anybody takes care of anything but themselves. Also, ruins do not linger. How about "whose former dwellings, now ruins, are scattered in the wilds."
Slightly awkward phrasing. How about "The wise and unwise alike debate the existence of silent gods. If the pantheon hear the faithful, they deign no response, grant no miracles, and do not intervene in the affairs of men. Desperate, Midlanders cling to rite and ritual, their only source of hope."
"...and even the largest cities conceal but a few." Looks like you're trying to express two ideas at once. How about "...and even the largest cities are home to but a few, keeping their status as sorcerers a closely guarded secret."
I would reorder this paragraph and frame it all positively. Start off that bat with something like "This book provides a campaign starting point, and equips the GM with the tools necessary to improvise and expand as desired. Many details are left open, encouraging the GM to customize the setting as suits his or her needs."
Thanks Ashakyre, some great suggestions, I especially like the reframing of the last paragraph. I'm think this one page summary will go through quite a few iterations before seeing the light of day again ;) I think in particular I need to be clearer about "Silent Gods" (no clerics! but folks still believe) and "Dark Ages", as much as that can be done in a couple of sentences.
You know, you can always go the Talislanta route and have the tagline- "And best of all, no clerics..."
Quote from: RunningLaser;933951You know, you can always go the Talislanta route and have the tagline- "And best of all, no clerics..."
I'm going to have to check out this Talislanta!
edit: just skimmed the 50 page primer of 4th edition, which seemed to be the author's favourite - holy shit, lots to like, especially the set hit points, injuries etc at zero hp, attack rolls remind me of Dragon Warriors and critical successes are a terrific idea, combat would always be quite dangerous I imagine. Excellent. The magic looks like a flexible system on a quick glance. I get the impression the setting is high fantasy.
Talislanta might be high fantasy, but there's no ELVES:D!
Quote from: AsenRG;934683Talislanta might be high fantasy, but there's no ELVES:D!
Lol!