TheRPGSite

((Well, hell - it should be "System" not "Setting in the title, sorry 'bout that.))

Well, I started watching this series via Netflix "instant watch" last night and got through the first four episodes. I can see why its popular; the characters are engaging and the story so far is interesting (I particularly like the little background nuggets that give the setting an "aged" feel - there's some history to this place).

So, being a gamer, I immediately began thinking of the Bending powers in terms of game mechanics. That led, naturally, to wondering what system would handle a world with a handful of very talented elemental-based sorcerors doing battle among a more mundane (so far) world. Exalted came to mind, of course (especially the fact that the inherent setting there is "high-powerd gods among men"), but I don't know enough about it to make a good call. Anyone ever tried, or have thoughts on, what game might do the setting some justice?

I love the show. I'd worry first about creating conflicts: What future conflict will need heroes (or past..)

Once that is done I'd work on a system. Characters seem to be simplified but with their own little quirks. Sokka, isn't quite as ineffective as he seems. He's good at planning when he's doing it for others, he can fight well, when not fighting superpowers scale people, and has a big mouth and a hard head.


I'd probably go with a superhero game--since bending really is like a small scale superpower for most, with a few like Toph (later you'll meet her..:) ) and the Avatar who have more scope or scale, or both.


I could see Over the Edge being used if you want real simple, Icons, or H&S. Alternately if you want a little more detail Truth & Justice  might work. Since their powers are flexible within their ability, but partially skill and partially inborn.

I have been considering using HeroQuest for Avatar.
Sorting out the Airbending magic would be so easy and the crucial things are the relationships of the characters.

This is the starting character of Aang at the beginning of Book One - Water.


(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o270/DarranSims/avatar-the-legend-of-aang-ps2.jpg)


Aang's Story
"Wow, I haven't cleaned my room in 100 years... Not looking forward to that..."
"I laugh at gravity all the time. Haha! Gravity."
"Walking stinks! How can anyone get around without a flying bison?"
As the last Airbender, only known survivor of the Air Nomads, Aang's great destiny is to become the Avatar, master of all four elements and bring peace to the Four Nations. Though Aang would rather search for adventure, a life full of fun experiences, not heavy responsibilities. Aang generally acts in a playful, carefree manner, he does become more serious during crisis and danger. Aang's desires are as simple as the animals he loves; his giant sky bison, Appa, and his winged-lemur, Momo.
Aang dislikes being regarded as the mythical Avatar as wherever he goes, always the focus of attention.
100 words

KeyWords
The Avatar
Last Airbender
 
Flaws
Dislikes being the Focus of Attention
Shirks Heavy Responsibilities
Only Known Surviving Air Nomad
 
Personality
Carefree manner
Playful
Serious During Crisis
Simple Desires
 
Relationships
Evades Zuko [Adversary]
Friend to Sokka
Loves Animal Followers
Only Known Surviving Air Nomad
Unrequited Love for Katara
 
Abilities
Acts Well in Danger
Great Destiny
Life Full of Fun Experiences
Must Master All Four Elements
Search For Adventure
Seeks to Bring Peace to Four Nations
 
Followers
Appa
   Giant Sky Bison
 
Momo
   Winged Lemur
 
 
Wealth
Standard of Living: Common 13
ITEMS:- Glider-stave, Sleeping gear, Monk robes.

Actually the more I think about it, the more M&M and/or trued20 would work in Avatar, the Last Airbender.

Hero System could do it, but it has a lot of complexity Avatar frankly doesn't need and wouldn't use. I'm a Hero fan, but not that much.

I'm thinking, Risus variant to Medium-Light.

Avatar: the Last Airbender is pretty much a direct ripoff of Exalted. It's almost the same setting, except the only exalts are the Dragonblooded.

The Dragonblooded of Exalted are the terrestrial exalted. They are all aspected (caste) to 5 different elements: Air, Water, Fire, Earth and Wood. They all have fighting styles and charms themed around these elements and their associations (ex. wood=growth/healing, aka plants).

You could pretty much run the book as is, only changing the setting and have Avatar. No problem.

http://sites.google.com/site/avatard20/home

This might help. I'm not real familiar with it though.

As it is my favorite show, I've tried to write rule, but they always come out as bunk.

I think the card based saga system for marvel would be the best because:

Characters with higher power levels can start knowing how to do very little

The system lets you use any power for either attack or defense

Characters can learn and invent new stunts

It's hard to die from injury

And the acquisition of equipment counts as a kind of advancement.

There are only a few powers in avatar. Forcefield, energy projection, improved movement, radius energy projection, delayed strong energy projection, increased limb length, and a fewspecialty powers like healing. The full list for any element shouldn't be more than10-12 long, though they need to scale with power.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;387436Hero System could do it, but it has a lot of complexity Avatar frankly doesn't need and wouldn't use. I'm a Hero fan, but not that much.

I'm thinking, Risus variant to Medium-Light.

Then don't use the 'complex' parts, but still use the HERO system.

 Zheesh!!

 Thats practically the same lame complaint I see about GURPS. People constantly confusing the forest for the trees and vice versa.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;387482Then don't use the 'complex' parts, but still use the HERO system.

 Zheesh!!

 Thats practically the same lame complaint I see about GURPS. People constantly confusing the forest for the trees and vice versa.


- Ed C.

...Good point. And Hero System could do all the zany vehicles they come up with. You could probably do everything you need with just the Basic Rulebook and that's only 128 pages...

...Thanks.

Quote from: Nightfall;387428Actually the more I think about it, the more M&M and/or trued20 would work in Avatar, the Last Airbender.

I'd toss my chips in with True20 also.  In fact, the basic book's sample powers were heavy on elemental-based abilities.  No splatbook required.  Another nice advantage is that you could have 'benders without making them demi-gods; the scale seems to be a good fit to me.

I once took a stab at doing AtLA in the Truth and Justice system. Here were my notes for that little exercise:



Under the T&J system, I'd say that the bending arts qualify as Meta-powers, as they can generally do a whole lot. For example, Aang used mini cyclones to surf, air blasts to improve his jumping abilities, sustained winds to keep his glider aloft, wide gales to scatter tons of faceless Fire Nation goons, shields of wind to deflect incoming projectiles and bender blasts. Phew.

So rather than give him Wind Surfing, Far Jumping, Wind Riding, Wind Blast, and Wind Shield all at Good[+2] level (5 qualities right there), we'd say he has the Airbending meta-power at Expert[+4] level (for 2 qualities), and define it as being able to generate short bursts or sustained winds for a variety of purposes. This lets him use any of the above effects at an Average[0] level at no cost or at the Good[+2] level for one hero point. In keeping with the spirit of the show, everything would be at normal scale instead of super-scale, except under certain circumstances (the Avatar state, the full moon for waterbenders, Sozin's comet for firebenders, etc)

So here's my attempt at writeups for major characters at the end of Scroll 1. Note that they're probably not compliant with the character creation rules as they stand, but I'm going more for the feel of the show than slavish devotion to mechanics.

Aang

Motivation: Restore balance to the world
Qualities: Expert[+4] Air Nomad, Good[+2] Cheerful and carefree, Good[+2] Sidekick (Appa), Good[+2] In love with Katara
Powers: Expert[+4] Airbending (Meta-power), Good[+2] Waterbending (Meta-power), Good[+2] The Avatar (Limitation: Requires a Hero Point to use)
Weakness: Poor[-2] Reluctant to embrace his destiny as the Avatar
Stunts: Aang's airbending lets him use his glider to fly for extended periods, surf a small air current quickly, blast enemies back with gale-force winds, use wind to assist his jumps. His powers as the avatar allow him to add his Avatar MOD to his Air- or Waterbending MOD and affect things on Super-scale for one action per HP spent. His waterbending functions similar to Katara's but he does not have the knack of using it to heal.

(Appa has the following qualities: Expert[+4] Flight, Expert[+4] Big and Powerful, Good[+2] Big and Friendly, Poor[-2] Huge and Unwieldy)

Katara

Motivation: Grow her skill as a waterbender
Qualities: Good[+2] Southern Water Tribe, Expert[+4] Fierce determination, Good[+2] Compassionate, Good[+2] Devotion to Aang's quest
Powers: Expert[+4] Waterbending (Meta-power)
Weakness: Poor[-2] Emotional and over-protective
Stunts: Katara's waterbending allows her to use nearby water to achieve effects. With a gallon of water, she can strike enemies, entangle them, shield herself from personal weapons, and heal injuries. All these stunts have the limitation: Requries at least 1 gallon of water. With a body of water equivalent to a small lake, she can shield herself and several allies from harm, imprison enemies in blocks of ice, hit several enemies with large crashing waves, and create ice in a slide to move quickly. All these stunts have the limitation: Requires large amounts of water

Sokka

Motivation: Protect Katara, eat meat
Qualities: Expert[+4]Southern Water Tribe warrior, Expert[+4] Creative, Good[+2] Hard-headed, Good[+2] Determined to prove himself to Yue, Good[+2] Tactician
Weakness: Poor[-2] Sarcastic sense of humor

Zuko

Motivation: Find the Avatar and redeem his honor
Qualities: Expert[+4] Disgraced Fire Nation Noble, Good[+2] Fire nation martial arts, Good[+2] Stealth & Subterfuge, Expert[+4] Determination
Powers: Expert[+4] Firebending (Meta-power)
Weakness: Poor[-2] Pride
Stunts: Zuko's firebending allows him to shoot blasts of fire at single opponents or use waves of fire to drive off multiple opponents. He can direct, enlarge, or put out existing fires and raise the temperature of his surrounding environment to create a Hazard.

Quote from: KrakaJak;387476Avatar: the Last Airbender is pretty much a direct ripoff of Exalted. It's almost the same setting, except the only exalts are the Dragonblooded.

I think this is a highly debatable statement, particularly the "direct ripoff" bit.  They certainly draw on the same sources for inspiration, though, yes.

@Darran - I've seen maybe a half-dozen ways of interpreting Avatar using HeroQuest.  I thought I was being particularly clever adapting the Mysticism rules, until someone piped up with the suggestion, "Just make all bending powers affinities."  Yeah, it's an easy kludge any number of ways.

!i!

The Avatar: The Last Airbender cartoon is probably the greatest fantasy adventure show of this century. It is loaded with backstory, has dozens of loose ends, a vibrant world, an entertaining bestiary, and in general seems like the kind of place people would like to adventure in. Also, the world itself has a clearly and not insultingly defined class system to go with distinctive and impressive power sets. And perhaps most importantly of all: the show itself presents a clearly realized heroes journey for several characters where they rise in power from children who get scolded by family members to bad asses who fight epic battles with the fates of continents in the balance. Avatar is, in short, almost exactly what we want a D&D campaign to be. So it is natural to ask "Why not make Avatar into an RPG setting?"

Playing After the Series

One of the most difficult things to accept when roleplaying in any established setting is that you won't be playing the characters, you will be playing your characters. And that means that you're going to have to find something to do that the main characters in the original source material have not already done.

Well, there are still multiple kung fu wars going on. The happy ending is that Zuko is going to spend the next twenty years fighting fire ninja assassins sent to put an end to his plan of restructuring the entire Fire Nation in a manner where feudal lords of prison colonies don't exist instead of having whole islands in their burning gauntlets of oppression. Back in the Earth Kingdom, the Dai Li controlled everything and the Dragon of the West came in and set fire to their shit and told them to fuck off. But they were actually a ninja order who used assassination, kidnapping, and mind control (and a leader voiced by Lex Luthor from the Superman Animated Series) to keep order in the Earth Kingdom - so you can fight as many rogue agents of those guys as you want too.

Also: pirates are still a major problem, as are bandits. And outside the major kingdoms of Earth and Fire there are straight up tribes hidden in the wilderness. Some of them are secret, and some of them attack outsiders. The Sun Warriors and Plentbender tribes are xenophobes, but the Sandbender tribes are straight up cutthroats and thieves. Truly, if you want to fight humans who may or may not have bending of one type or another, you can do that as much as you want.

People who leave towns do so under armed guard or stick to patrolled roads, because the wilderness is full of platypusbears (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Platypus_Bear), buzzardwasps (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Buzzard-Wasp), and sabertooth mooselions (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Sabertooth_moose-lion). The spirit world is full of crazy, but all full of danger. Koh (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Koh) steals people's faces for his giant face collection and no one thinks this is weird. The Great Divide is an actual dungeon filled with canyon crawlers (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Canyon_Crawler). Truly, if you wanted to have a campaign where you ran around in the wilderness and tunnel complexes and fought chimeric monsters, you could totally do that.

As for the technology level, as of the end of the series, people had invented war zeppelins, submarines, and the tractor. The new Air civilization they are building is powered by natural gas and steam. The new "age of peace" that the gAang is issuing in is going to be one with a lot of change in it, and there is still plenty stuff to explore, and a lot of people who are going to be having a wildly different life in a new untamed land in the very near future. It's not just grinding Catgators (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Catgator) and Pirates (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Pirate_Captain) until you get your Epic (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Shirshu) Mount (http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon). Although of course, you could do that.

Fighters Can't Have Nice Things. Or Can They?[/size]

OK, make no mistake: the high end of benders and spiritualists do things in Avatar that no mundane person is capable of equaling. By the end of Book 3, Aang, Toph, and even Katara are ridiculous. Able to crush whole boats and cities with all the fighters of any possible level in them from the horizon in the blink of an eye or the wave of a hand. Any game which extends to the point of actually playing characters at that level would necessarily leave warriors of any skill level as comic relief.

And yet... the world demonstrably has a lot of overlap in power levels between benders and non-benders. Mei and Ty Lee are on the upper end of what badass normals can achieve, but they do kick the crap out of a lot of low and middling grade benders at one point or another. A basic fire acolyte is a pretty minor challenge to Suki or a late series Sakka.

What this means is that you can make a party where one of the player characters could be Suki, or you could make a party where one of the players could be Aang. You can't really do a game where boh are player characters. That is why ultimately in the final battles they had to put Sakka, Suki, and a tremendously de-powered Toph (her "must touch ground" limitation kicks in hard on an airship battle) on a completely separate quest far from anywhere that people who had access to city leveling power would be.

The game system could cover people who were simple competent normals like Bato and go all the way to primal forces like Koh, the Lionturtle and The Avatar. But within what has been shown in the show, there is no way for a character without bending to get to those top levels, while a character with bending can progress from wherever you set first level all the way to the top.

Setting Accuracy

You won't ever be able to make a game system that perfectly generates the setting of Avatar. The Avatarverse is way too detailed for that. And that's fine. The amount of thought the designers of the show put into things is amazing. Even tiny details like how in Fire Nation the greeting of respect is the ancient sun warrior hand gesture for turning off their fire is just an anthropological marvel. Each nation's bending and martial disciplines are based on identifiable and distinct styles of Kung Fu leads to some incredibly well thought out interactions between characters, their environments, and each other. However, in an actual game, you do not have time for a Wuxia master to run through a series of test kata for the animators to go back and interpolate on every action. You do not have time to go back and check your references to make sure that the poster for a play that was on the wall 13 sessions ago is the one that a character mentions having seen in this adventure. That kind of continuity and consistency is amazing, but in an actual game you don't have a team of proofreaders running fact checking on things.

You are going to have dice and they are going to produce results that are not smooth and don't perfectly align with narrative desires. It's something you have to live with. It also means that having PCs of wildly different power levels isn't going to work out terribly well. You can't decide ahead of time that th weaker characters are going to consistently get saved ex Machina, nor is it an acceptable compromise to have them split off and fight easier battles. You're going to have to make something where the PCs are more balanced than they are in the show.

Resource Management

Most resource management systems correspond to either charges or a rage bar. And the "look" of those are both pretty distinctive. In a charges system, people do their big deal move at the beginning of battles and then fall back to spamming their basics after that. You can see that in action in the Star Wars prequels, to the point where they actually announced that is what they were doing in Episode 2 (to build up to declaring their attacks of opportunity and combat modifiers in Episode 3). Rage bar resource management systems involve people doing their standard stuff over and over again until they build up to bad ass super moves. You can see tha in action in Sailor Moon, and a lot of other monster of the week material like Ultraman. It is important to realize that characters in Avatar do not do either of those things.

Characters in Avatar use a vast array of powers over and over again with seemingly little in the way of usage limits. Earthbending is fatiguing, but only in the way that throwing punches is. Characters do not run out of firepower by using said firepower in combat. At all. Nor are there any restrictions in place to keep Sparky Sparky Boom Man from simply beginning battle with a fucking block leveling psychic explosion. What can cause characters to run out of juice is entanglement (which keeps them from using their abilities until freed) and injury (which keeps people from using abilities until healed). That's not a drain system, because seriously until someone punches back you can apparently throw fire punches all day.

What that points to really is a WoF system. You could model it with dice or cards, modified only by injuries and conditions limiting your number of options each turn until you had none at all and had to surrender. A deck of cards can generate a number of options each round that will prevent the kind of Diablo-esque power spamming that one often finds in systems that give people maneuvers with unlimited usage. This is a good fit for the kinds of varied actions that characters in Avatar use within conflicts.

-Frank

Quote from: FrankTrollman;387541Characters in Avatar use a vast array of powers over and over again with seemingly little in the way of usage limits. Earthbending is fatiguing, but only in the way that throwing punches is. Characters do not run out of firepower by using said firepower in combat. At all. Nor are there any restrictions in place to keep Sparky Sparky Boom Man from simply beginning battle with a fucking block leveling psychic explosion. What can cause characters to run out of juice is entanglement (which keeps them from using their abilities until freed) and injury (which keeps people from using abilities until healed). That's not a drain system, because seriously until someone punches back you can apparently throw fire punches all day.

That's an accurate observation and one that I didn't consider before. It reminds me somewhat of the way that Jedi could spam force powers all the live-long day back in the WEG D6 days, the only limiting factors being multi-action penalties for powers that relied on more than one force skill as well as the penalties to all skill checks involved with being banged up to one degree or another. Contrast with the d20 method of fueling force powers with vitality points and then a pseudo-vancian powers-per-fight model (the latter of which I rather like, actually)

QuoteWhat that points to really is a WoF system. You could model it with dice or cards, modified only by injuries and conditions limiting your number of options each turn until you had none at all and had to surrender. A deck of cards can generate a number of options each round that will prevent the kind of Diablo-esque power spamming that one often finds in systems that give people maneuvers with unlimited usage. This is a good fit for the kinds of varied actions that characters in Avatar use within conflicts.

-Frank

A system such as...?

(also, WoF? :confused:)

Quote from: Rubio;387548A system such as...?

(also, WoF? :confused:)

A couple pieces of terminology that get thrown around a lot on another board. RNG stands for "Random Number Generator" and represents the method you use in your game to determine random results. Mostly used in conjunction with discussions of things being "pushed off the RNG" with respect to combined bonuses or penalties rendering the act of rolling dice meaningless or the limits of the spread of available numbers rendering the accumulation of additional bonuses (or penalties) incapable of making changes to your actual chances of success. WoF stands for "Winds of Fate" and refers to resource management systems in which whether an ability is usable or not is random - whether generated by dice (as a 3rd edition D&D's Dragon Breath is), or by cards (as a Tome of Battle Crusader's is).

The best fit for Avatar power usage would probably be card based - like a Crusader from 3.5's Book of Nine Swords. Avatar differs however, in that it uses a condition based injury system rather than hit points and critical existence failure. More powerful characters can take more of a beating not because they have any more hit points, but because they have a lager hand size and can thus get shafted by more conditions without being forced to concede the field.

-Frank

Quote from: Rubio;387508Zuko

Motivation: Find the Avatar and redeem his honor
Qualities: Expert[+4] Disgraced Fire Nation Noble, Good[+2] Fire nation martial arts, Good[+2] Stealth & Subterfuge, Expert[+4] Determination
Powers: Expert[+4] Firebending (Meta-power)
Weakness: Poor[-2] Pride
Stunts: Zuko's firebending allows him to shoot blasts of fire at single opponents or use waves of fire to drive off multiple opponents. He can direct, enlarge, or put out existing fires and raise the temperature of his surrounding environment to create a Hazard.

I'd probably up his Martial Art, and or add in a trait for sword. He's shown even without bending he can do bad ass things. (I won't mention how for those watching it...)

Quote from: FrankTrollman;387554The best fit for Avatar power usage would probably be card based - like a Crusader from 3.5's Book of Nine Swords. Avatar differs however, in that it uses a condition based injury system rather than hit points and critical existence failure. More powerful characters can take more of a beating not because they have any more hit points, but because they have a lager hand size and can thus get shafted by more conditions without being forced to concede the field.

-Frank

Sounds like you have something in mind.

Still somewhat reminding me of WEG d6 somewhat. Many variants have no hit points as such but use a death-spiral-esque condition track that makes one progressively less capable due to injuries.

PDQ does something similar with abilities gradually becoming more and more debilitated until a combatant is outta gas and can't fight.

Quote from: Silverlion;387555I'd probably up his Martial Art, and or add in a trait for sword. He's shown even without bending he can do bad ass things. (I won't mention how for those watching it...)

Possibly, but I was thinking that part of a Fire Nation noble's formative training is in the Fire Nation martial arts, so the 'Disgraced Noble' and 'Fire Nation Martial Arts' Qualities would stack.

As for sword fighting, I figured that, in PDQ terms, it was simply a tool that he used with his martial arts and not worthy of a bonus in and of itself. Something like Sokka's Space Sword in scroll 3 that is shown as capable of carving off inches-thick steel from a throw is something that is worth a Quality on its own.

What do you think about a Bending system where you HAVE to start "small" and build up the power of your attacks as the fight goes on? I know it is a dramatic and stylistic tool rather than (maybe) how Bending actually works, but in the set-piece fights I've see so far, they always seem to start with lesser attacks and build up to a big boom. I guess that's really how most anime-style fights go, now that I think of it. So, what if you can't actually use the bigger attacks until you "climb the ladder" or warm up, as it were? Might make for more interesting fights instead of just whipping out the biggest clod-throwing Bend in your arsenal on turn one?

Actually, now that I think on it some more, that might be a good mechanic for ANY kind of magic fight; would avoid the problem of "useless" lower level spells...

Just a thought.

Quote from: Werekoala;387574Actually, now that I think on it some more, that might be a good mechanic for ANY kind of magic fight; would avoid the problem of "useless" lower level spells...

Just a thought.

Indeed, not a bad idea. Hrms. Where can I use it though? I think it works well in Champions Online (better than a pool of points that drains away.)

It would work ideally for magic where that seems to happen. Ages ago, I used the mod for D&D where one "absorbed" magic points from the environment--which was similar but not quite the same.

Maybe we can tie it into conflict scale somehow--bit spells for epic challenges, small ones for minor challenges?

Quote from: Werekoala;387574What do you think about a Bending system where you HAVE to start "small" and build up the power of your attacks as the fight goes on? I know it is a dramatic and stylistic tool rather than (maybe) how Bending actually works, but in the set-piece fights I've see so far, they always seem to start with lesser attacks and build up to a big boom. I guess that's really how most anime-style fights go, now that I think of it. So, what if you can't actually use the bigger attacks until you "climb the ladder" or warm up, as it were? Might make for more interesting fights instead of just whipping out the biggest clod-throwing Bend in your arsenal on turn one?

Actually, now that I think on it some more, that might be a good mechanic for ANY kind of magic fight; would avoid the problem of "useless" lower level spells...

Just a thought.

That's Rage Bar mechanics. And it works fine. But while it's perfect for Sailor Moon or Power Rangers, it doesn't work well for Avatar. In Avatar, especially in the later series, characters get good enough that they just start bringing the awesome straight from round one. Katara's opening in one memorable scene is to take out a ship full of people with a wave.

-Frank

Ah, ok, that makes sense. I'm still WAY early into it (maybe episode 6 I think) so right now its all "relatively" tame stuff like throwing boulders and ripping the prow off of iron ships. :)

Never heard of "power bar" mechanics, but I grok the reference from video games. Just never thought of it until now for some reason (guess because I've never thought of doing an anime-style magic game).

Rage Bar mechanics tends to work better in computer or card games than in table top role playing games, because players will fill sacks full of kittens or just punch the air a bunch of times before jumping into battle.

Still, there are ways to make it work.

-Frank

I would use a modified version of Qin.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;387903I would use a modified version of Qin.

RPGPundit

For those of us who don't know Qin's system, what makes you think it would work well for this purpose? And modified in what way?

I know what you mean.  It's like RPG.net without the exclamation marks.

"I'd use Qin!!1!"

!i!

I think I'd probably go with True20, especially using the handbook or new edition to create a Role for Bender, mixing Warrior and Adept, most likely.

Although, Savage Worlds seems like it could do the job, too. Since the arcane background edge can be used to apply just about any trapping (earth, water, air, etc.).

I think True20 would work a bit better, though. The idea of gaining levels and and learning new feats fits the tone of the show better, since these are adolescent/teenagers, coming of age and becoming adults and better at what they do. Obviously, Aang is learning the different bending arts, but even Sokka, largely the comic relief for most of the series, is a helluva lot more useful in a fight in the final season than he was in the first few episodes.

If you want something usable out of the box, Feng Shui all the way.

If you want to make your own system, that's entirely reasonable. But make sure that you don't use anything that is d20 related or level based. Characters who are good at various important skills who can't cut a mountain in half with their feet are an important part of the setting, and level systems do not deliver that.

Also resign yourself to the fact that your player characters are not going to be Aang or Azula in power level. Probably ever.

-Frank

Quote from: Ian Absentia;388011I know what you mean.  It's like RPG.net without the exclamation marks.

"I'd use Qin!!1!"

!i!

Is it? I don't really post there. I'm just curious as to how Qin would do it better than other options.

Quote from: KazI think I'd probably go with True20, especially using the handbook or new edition to create a Role for Bender, mixing Warrior and Adept, most likely.

I daresay you could go further and make each individual bender into its own role, considering that the power lists would be pretty dang limited. However, that breaks down when one tries to stat Aang out, considering that he's able to do all the bending arts with equal facility.

On the subject of powers, I would also expand the psychic grappling rules to an "elemental grappling" type rule as well. After all, we frequently see two benders throwing blasts at each other only to have them countered/blocked/parried by bursts of the opposing element, and rather than a series of attack rolls, I feel that it would be better emulated by opposed grapple checks with the winner being able to apply an elemental type effect to the loser.

Quote from: KazAlthough, Savage Worlds seems like it could do the job, too. Since the arcane background edge can be used to apply just about any trapping (earth, water, air, etc.).

I thought so, too, but the power system would require some modding. First, get rid of power points, as the only limit on bending seems to be an abundance of the element in question. Second, the bending arts themselves tend to be very versatile, and would require lots and lots of the powers presented in the SW core to emulate just the stuff that we see waterbenders do in the first season (blast, shield, entangle, speed boost, bolt, etc). Might just have to use the superpowers companion to model it.

Quote from: KazI think True20 would work a bit better, though. The idea of gaining levels and and learning new feats fits the tone of the show better, since these are adolescent/teenagers, coming of age and becoming adults and better at what they do. Obviously, Aang is learning the different bending arts, but even Sokka, largely the comic relief for most of the series, is a helluva lot more useful in a fight in the final season than he was in the first few episodes.

Sokka's Space Sword is the most awesomeist item in TEH ENTIRE SEREEZ!!1!one! Heh. Seriously. Sokka doesn't get enough credit.

However, to be honest, this is one place where I feel that a level-based system falls flat: by the end of the series, 12-15 year old kids are capable of taking on entire armies, and display such a dazzling array of powers that, to be compliant with True20 character rules, they'd have to have levels in the upper teens. Gets a bit silly, IMO.

Quote from: Rubio;388121Is it?

For a good couple of years there, the inevitable refrain to any question like in this thread was "I'd use Exalted!!1!" with little or no further explanation.  Bit of an in-joke at Pundy's expense considering his feelings about both RPG.net and Exalted.

Quote from: FrankTrollman;388118Also resign yourself to the fact that your player characters are not going to be Aang or Azula in power level. Probably ever.

Really?  Then, honestly, why bother?  I can name a system or two that could handle Sokka side-by-side with Aang and Azula.  Darran already has.

!i!

Quote from: FrankTrollman;388118If you want something usable out of the box, Feng Shui all the way.

If you want to make your own system, that's entirely reasonable. But make sure that you don't use anything that is d20 related or level based. Characters who are good at various important skills who can't cut a mountain in half with their feet are an important part of the setting, and level systems do not deliver that.

Also resign yourself to the fact that your player characters are not going to be Aang or Azula in power level. Probably ever.

-Frank

Please, anyone one that's seen the show through knows that Katara is more powerful than either of them.

This is one of the things I've grown to hate about role playing games and why I rarely play anymore. Why are game masters so resistant to letting players play powerful characters? It isn't munchkin if everyone knows that being powerful is the point.

Now to mention, none of the characters, Azula included, are probably any more powerful than 6th or 7th level D&D characters, Aang included, assuming your normal soldier is a first level Duskblade with magic missile or something.

In my head, its pretty easy to play Avatar with d20 as long as you restrict level advancement to the special snow flakes, keep it rare, and make it a low level world.

Quote from: Rubio;387905For those of us who don't know Qin's system, what makes you think it would work well for this purpose? And modified in what way?

Well, for starters its a Chinese-themed RPG, and Airbender is basically the same (pan-asian, but whatever).  
Second, the various combat techniques would very aptly imitate the non-bending fighter types, while the Taos could be easily redesigned along those elemental lines to simulate the Benders.

Plus its a great system.

RPGPundit

QuoteReally? Then, honestly, why bother?

Because at the end of the show, the primary characters are so powerful that there isn't much left to challenge them. There are a few spirit world things that might still be a challenge for the fully realized Avatar at the end of the show. And honestly, they might not.

To do the Avatar world any justice, you'd spend almost all of your adventuring at a much lower power level. Where you could be challenged by Canyon Crawlers or Pirates. The power level of Aang is so badass that a party full of people like that could only be challenged by maybe Koh or perhaps a rogue Lionturtle. And then you can't really do a campaign in the world of Avatar, because after a big set piece battle or two there is nothing canonical left to fight.

That's fine as an end-of-the-campaign capstone adventure, but it's worthless as anything except that. Which means very importantly, that your characters won't be that powerful. Except maybe at the very end of the campaign. But just as the vast majority of OD&D campaigns end before the characters achieve godhood and the vast majority of V:tM campaigns end before the characters fight and defeat an Antediluvian, the vast majority of Avatarverse campaigns are going to end before anyone is ready to take on the Firelord under the Comet in personal combat and win.

-Frank

I was thinking to use the 2nd Ed Exalted combat system (K.I.S.S. is my favorite motto) and then to use a similar system to the Mage: the Ascension rules for the Bending. You have a variety of techniques that you can use as you gain dots in Bending. For example, Wave, Projectile, Transportation, etc., etc., etc.
You could also substitute your Bending for a Martial Arts.
Martial Arts itself, however, could have Specialties.
Your level of Bending could determine range, damage, etc.
Any pool of points (Chi, Mana, What have you) would be to push your powers to do more damage or to extend further.

This gives balance so that someone who spends their points on Abilities is going to be more well rounded than Joe Blow who pumps all of it into their Bending.

The system I'm writing now was meant to handle magic in a way similar to shows like Avatar (the other big influence being Fullmetal Alchemist).

Avatar seems like it would use a stance/aura mechanic. Benders can move fast or deflect projectiles or what have you, but rarely do they use their full suite of powers simultaneously (exception: Avatar state).

Also wounding and entangling interfere with bending, as mentioned earlier.

So yeah... I'd probably tinker with my current homebrew, maybe take the chopping off of limbs off the wound table though.

I've just finished Season 1.  If there were an Avatar TTRPG, I'd probably buy it.

I'm not sure why exactly a resource management aspect to bending is necessary at all.

Leaving aside for the moment the power level goes 'off the rails' and your entire adventure consists of finding the one dude capable of actually challenging you at that level...

Do most games limit your number of punches or blocks in a fight? I'd say no, but maybe I'm sheltered. Benders use their bending almost exclusively once it comes on line reliably for them.  Katara whips the fuck out of everyone with water lashes, or freezes them or whatever she feels like when she feels like it.

For 'sweeps away armies and ships' level powers, put a reasonable '5 second rule' or something to call up that much power. It doesn't interfere with versimilitude, and keeps 'her' from doing it against every joe schmuck in a boring display of overkill.

I'd have to watch how some of the fights play out to scotch anything up as far as rules (its been a couple years since I watched it...).

Might I suggest running such a campaign in a period long before the one depicted in the show? After all, it was pretty clearly established that the avatar cycle has been going on for a very long time given the number of them that appear in Aang's visions, and the technology level has also been fairly stable judging from the historical flashbacks. Using a pre-canon period would give players more freedom to actually do things that matter without the awkwardness of running into "main" characters doing the important stuff (A.K.A. the Dragonlance Campaign Setting Dilemma).

Or heck, how about further into the future (post Avatar Korra)? Bending martial arts vs. automatic weapons and nuclear bombs makes for fun juxtapositions and "Once Upon a Time in China" observations.

Quote from: Vegetable Protein;561934Might I suggest running such a campaign in a period long before the one depicted in the show? After all, it was pretty clearly established that the avatar cycle has been going on for a very long time given the number of them that appear in Aang's visions, and the technology level has also been fairly stable judging from the historical flashbacks. Using a pre-cannon period would give players more freedom to actually do things that matter without the awkwardness of running into "main" characters doing the important stuff (A.K.A. the Dragonlance Campaign Setting Dilemma).

While I haven't seen the entire series yet, this seems sensible.  The presence of a large number of Air Benders during the early parts of the Fire Nation attack would make all benders better options.

Some players might object to a campaign where they're supposed to 'lose' - basically if the events of the show are to come true, the Fire Nation will be 'ascendent' - but even during the show it wasn't monolithic.  The actions of heroes (ie, the PCs) could well be why the Fire Nation didn't wipe out ALL opposition by the events of the show...  

Still, the GM will have to decide if the Fire Nation COULD be defeated without the Avatar - rendering the events of the show simply a 'what would have happened' alternate timeline...

Quote from: deadDMwalking;561937Some players might object to a campaign where they're supposed to 'lose' - basically if the events of the show are to come true, the Fire Nation will be 'ascendent' - but even during the show it wasn't monolithic.  The actions of heroes (ie, the PCs) could well be why the Fire Nation didn't wipe out ALL opposition by the events of the show...  

Still, the GM will have to decide if the Fire Nation COULD be defeated without the Avatar - rendering the events of the show simply a 'what would have happened' alternate timeline...

The Fire Nation wasn't an all-conquering menace until a hundred years prior to the first show's time frame, so a campaign set in the past could deal with completely different menaces. For instance, there was a major Earth Kingdom tyrant running around during Avatar Kyoshi's period.

As for what's allowed in a past-events campaign, the one time I tried it for a different setting I declared that the future was unwritten, and when things went too far off track for the canon events to come about I declared that it was all a parallel but equally valid dimension. The players liked the setting enough that there were no complaints, and they kind of liked the opportunity to "fix" the mistakes the protagonists of the original fiction made.

Quote from: FrankTrollman;387586That's Rage Bar mechanics. And it works fine. But while it's perfect for Sailor Moon or Power Rangers, it doesn't work well for Avatar. In Avatar, especially in the later series, characters get good enough that they just start bringing the awesome straight from round one. Katara's opening in one memorable scene is to take out a ship full of people with a wave.

-Frank

Perhaps a mechanic that allows the character to go into "rage bar debt" might model this. The big move is performed, then the building moves must be used to pay off the debt, either in the current conflict or the next one the character engages in.

Quote from: Vegetable Protein;561945The Fire Nation wasn't an all-conquering menace until a hundred years prior to the first show's time frame, so a campaign set in the past could deal with completely different menaces. For instance, there was a major Earth Kingdom tyrant running around during Avatar Kyoshi's period.

As for what's allowed in a past-events campaign, the one time I tried it for a different setting I declared that the future was unwritten, and when things went too far off track for the canon events to come about I declared that it was all a parallel but equally valid dimension. The players liked the setting enough that there were no complaints, and they kind of liked the opportunity to "fix" the mistakes the protagonists of the original fiction made.

I agree with you. I'd run it either as an alt timeline or far enough in the future that no canon history has been written. I think a post-apoc Avatarverse game would be fun as well. Maybe 100 years after the show ends some big calamity occurs and the tech is thrown back to the stone age for everyone, and only the benders prevent total extinction. Or a 20th century earth version of the Avatarverse, that would be fun too :) Technology could have been developed to level the playing field somewhat vs. the benders. Lots of possibilities. can't wait to see more ideas about this.

Quick question from a guy who has no clue about this setting - Is The Legend of Korra related to this setting? Because I was at the panel for The Legend of Korra Season 2 (or they called it Book 2) at Comic Con (by accident, while waiting for another panel) and it looked pretty neat.

Quote from: Mistwell;561967Quick question from a guy who has no clue about this setting - Is The Legend of Korra related to this setting? Because I was at the panel for The Legend of Korra Season 2 (or they called it Book 2) at Comic Con (by accident, while waiting for another panel) and it looked pretty neat.

Yes. Same universe advanced 70 or so years. Korra is the avatar incarnation after the previous show's protagonist. They didn't keep the name connection because they grew tired of fighting with James Cameron.

Quote from: Sigmund;561958Or a 20th century earth version of the Avatarverse, that would be fun too :) Technology could have been developed to level the playing field somewhat vs. the benders.

The playing field is actually pretty level as of the first season of legend of Korra (not that it was that uneven before in my opinion). Between chi-blocking techniques, electric gloves, limb-binding gadgets, unbendable mechs and other innovations one could actually argue that bending is dangerously close to becoming a mundane martial art at best and a parlor trick at worst, which is a conflict I find facinating (though I doubt the show will go too far in that direction). That's why I mentioned "Once Upon a Time in China," which I recall explored the idea of guns obsoleting even the most spectacular martial art tricks.

Quote from: Mistwell;561967Quick question from a guy who has no clue about this setting - Is The Legend of Korra related to this setting? Because I was at the panel for The Legend of Korra Season 2 (or they called it Book 2) at Comic Con (by accident, while waiting for another panel) and it looked pretty neat.

Go get the DVDs for Avatar: The Last Airbender.  Seriously, you won't regret it.  Then watch The Legend of Korra.  You won't regret that, either.  Both are better than most of the stuff made for adults and rise way above being children's television.

Quote from: Spike;561896I'm not sure why exactly a resource management aspect to bending is necessary at all.

The limiting factor I've seen in the show, which comes up in the bending arenas more than anyplace else, is physical fatigue from the motions and taking hits, and the more powerful characters eventually wind up being able to do quite a bit with very little motion.  So if you wanted to model that, I would have some sort of fatigue mechanism where fatigue is gained by the motion of bending or physically fighting, fairly quickly regained from resting, and the more skilled a bender gets, the more power they get out of less motion such that they not only get more powerful affects (attacks, blocks, entangles, and environmental changes) from a move but less fatigue from doing it.

To be honest, I'm not all that interested in seeing these shows turned into a role-playing game because I feel pretty certain than any effort to do so is going to miss out on what makes the show so wonderful.

The best fatigue mechanic I can think of is Champions/Hero, and from what I can tell it's also one of those bits that cause people to complain about how... complex that game is.

And also one of those ignored things... which just seems foolish given how many options turn on not ignoring mundane rules like, oh, endurance.

But I agree in principle.

I haven't watched much of the show, though I'm confident I would like it plenty.  Loads of people seem to be interested in how to game it.

As many have said explicitly or implicitly, I think it depends on what aspects of the show you most want to emulate accurately.  Especially bending: do you want detailed narrative descriptions with simple mechanics, or do you want specific rules outlining what you can and can't do?

Do you want the emphasis on combat or not-combat? (Given how much rules space is given to this in most games, I think the question can be as simple as that.)

I think a lot of the answers here are pretty rules-light, which is a safe way to make sure you're getting the right feel when playing with other fans.  

I'm not a huge fan of it, but I think Marvel Heroic Roleplaying could be a good fit.

Personally, unless you love Exalted, I think it's way too cumbersome to generate something that doesn't seem much like the series except in tone.

I probably would agree with those that would use M&M, because at least the effects there could be created by the players and new effects could be stunted with Hero Points.  The game plays pretty fast.

For a combat intensive game, I'll shill my own Fight!, specifically using the Dramatic Combat Rules.  The normal rules are very focused on video game combat, but the Dramatic rules are intended for a more shonen anime feel.  Non-combat effects are wide open and handled much more simply in the rules.

Quick Edit to add: if you think the "Rage Bar Mechanic" is a good thing, Fight! has several specific rules options for them.

Quote from: Werekoala;387379Anyone ever tried, or have thoughts on, what game might do the setting some justice?

TSR's Marvel Super Heroes.  Especially by taking advantage of the Stunt system.

Spoiler

The Karma rules would work too.  Nobody is actually killed on screen.