For the last few years, I've found that increasingly I prefer my games with no magic or other paranormal or superhuman stuff in them.
It's not a religion, I love the D&D game I play in which has all that stuff in spades, but when I run my settings normally have neither magic nor psionics, no big stompy robots, no weird powers or curses or eldritch threats.
Increasingly I enjoy human issues. Human motivations.
The PCs may be fighting the baron's men, but the baron isn't a sorceror, he's in debt to the king and raising taxes to try and buy his way out from under it, becoming increasingly brutal as it fails to work.
A group of shadowy individuals may be meeting in secret and have murdered a woman who found out too much, but they're a cartel dividing up rights to work on building sites in the city and muscling out anyone who doesn't go along with their plans. The woman was killed because she discovered their links to a local planning commissioner, and planned to go to the press.
The PCs may be fighting their way through Central Asia to stop a vicious warlord, but he isn't planning to raise an ancient evil, he's planning to take control of a Khanate and ally it with Russia and then take his troops to the Khyber Pass in the hope of conquering British India.
The mundane contains passion, hate, lust, greed, envy, bigotry, zealotry, pride, love, fear, all that rich human stuff. With all that, I find it slightly dispiriting that most rpgs rely on ancient curses, magical evils, dark sorceries and ultimately a great many rather lazy plot devices.
The indie crowd if anything are worse for this, so many of their games claim to be about deep human themes, but actually involve characters with amazing abilities. If the game's about pride and what you'll do for power say, why are the characters in giant fighting robots?
The thing is, magic et al is a crutch in a way. You don't need to think out motivations so much because a wizard did it, or someone "evil". Embrace the mundane, and instead of that you need a reason for people to act as they do, and that immediately gives them depth and gives potentials for left-field solutions. Maybe if you intercede with the King the Baron will calm down. If you expose the cartel to the press yourself, there's no need to go in guns blazing. If you cut a side deal with the Russians, they make take out the would-be-Khan themselves. Once you have real world desires and goals, all kinds of possibilities open up that just aren't there if your bad guy is a necromancer.
So, the mundane, the magic-free, the throwing away of the comfort of the paranormal. That increasingly is what I look for in a game.
What about you? Have you tried no paranormal-element games? Would you like to, but you're not sure how? Does the very idea fill you with fear and loathing? Over to you...
The supernatural is often a part of the games I run, but I've always used human feelings and problems for the basis of what's going on.
That's not to say that people don't do it, but like you said it comes off as phony after a while to say "a wizard did it", so its something I actively avoid.
I think Pendragon does a fine job of keeping the mundane squarely in the center stage, while not doing away with the magic.
I think that depends what period of Pendragon you're talking about, Jong. :D
RPGPundit
Quote from: Balbinus;281160What about you? Have you tried no paranormal-element games? Would you like to, but you're not sure how? Does the very idea fill you with fear and loathing? Over to you...
Many times. My favorite it Respublica set in the Roman Republic at the time of Sulla's rise. The system was cool in that it had magic but it was not "magic". Basically, it was the superstition in action. No energy was transfered or manifested. No fireballs. Just curses and mind over matter stuff. It functioned off your "belief" and the "caster's" ability to act. That said, it was much more about baing agents of Sulla acting against Marius and the populare then killing people and taking their stuff.
Generally, I like playing low magic adventures. I have had campaigns in 1938, modern, near and far future as well as a renaissance adventure that rocked. Really, it is a lot more about what your character can DO. I am not going to go around as a hardened gumshoe...but I live playing one. ;)
Quote from: RPGPundit;281184I think that depends what period of Pendragon you're talking about, Jong. :D
RPGPundit
I guess we'll find out soon? :p
Well, let's look at my most recent campaigns...
Chronogate (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Chronogate&back=O.R.C.+2007) - travel to parallel worlds. 3 sessions, Dec05.
Tiwesdæg Clíewen (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Tiwesd%C3%A6g+Cl%C3%ADewen&back=O.R.C.+2007) - 14 sessions, Jan06-May06
Tiwesdæg Clíewen 2 (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Tiwesd%C3%A6g+Cl%C3%ADewen+2&back=O.R.C.+2007) - 14 sessions, Aug-Dec06
underground (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=underground&back=O.R.C.+2007),
"there is some shit you don't want to know." An
Unknown Armies game. Think X-Files and Twilight Zone, with a dose of Sopranos. 3 sessions, 16Jan07-30Jan07
lofgeornost (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=lofgeornost&back=O.R.C.+2007),
"most eager for honour - adventuring in a world where magic is magical, and monsters are monstrous." Tiwesdæg Clíewen 3 - A RuneQuest game of
high adventure! 4 sessions, Feb-Mar07
Wasteland (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Wasteland&back=O.R.C.+2007),
"One world dead, another unable to be born," a GURPS Adventure game, where survivors ventured forth from a valley to explore. 10 sessions, 05Mar07-04Jun07
CIVIS ROMANVS SVM (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=CIVIS+ROMANVS+SVM&back=O.R.C.+2007) - a GURPS 4e game set in late Republican era Rome. 8 sessions, 02Jul07-05Sep07
Osere (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Osere&back=O.R.C.+2007) - modern espionage 10 sessions, 26Sep2007-19Dec2007.
Fourth Tiwesdæg (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Tiwesd%C3%A6g+Cl%C3%ADewen+4&back=O.R.C.+2007) - Dark Ages low fantasy using HarnMaster, a continuation of the adventures of the series. Played from 09Jan08-21Apr08.
Just Speculatin' (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Just+Speculatin%27&back=O.R.C.+2007) - scifi trade and adventure. scifi trade and adventure. Played 21Apr08-30Jun08 (incomplete)
Osere 2 (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Osere+2&back=O.R.C.+2007) - modern espionage, played 14Jul08-Oct08, 12 sessions
So of 11 campaigns,
- 2 scifi, 1 high and 1 low
- 4 fantasy, only 1 high fantasy, the others quite mundane
- 1 horror with magical elements
- 1 historical
- 3 modern
Overall pretty mundane, especially when you remember that the highest-magic one was the horror which had the game group implosion (I learned my lesson! Stick to your strengths!) Two of the fantasy ones actually ended up having no magic at all...
My proposed campaigns are all zero magic though perhaps you could call aliens supernatural...?
Forgotten (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Forgotten&back=O.R.C.+2007) - modern mercenary
the island (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=the+island&back=O.R.C.+2007) - realistic-themed postapocalyptic
Tramp Trading (http://www.gamecircle.org/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=Tramp+Trading&back=O.R.C.+2007) - modern trade and adventure
Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Dice - crime pays, if you can make it
Something Wicked This Way Comes - the aliens are coming, and not in peace. Can you defeat the alien menace?
I was never keen on k3w1 pw0rz. It's all a bit munchkiny.
Couldn't disagree more. I want the fantastique in my games. I couldn't think of nothing worse than a 'mundane' game :D
I feel that way about most entertainment, though it isn't an excuse for shit 'fantasy' either.
Nicotine Girls is one of the most enjoyable games I've played in years. It's all about the group and its expectations. There has traditionally been a large overlap between 'roleplaying' and 'geek interests', but there's no reason why this should always be the case.
Quote from: Balbinus;281160The mundane contains passion, hate, lust, greed, envy, bigotry, zealotry, pride, love, fear, all that rich human stuff. With all that, I find it slightly dispiriting that most rpgs rely on ancient curses, magical evils, dark sorceries and ultimately a great many rather lazy plot devices.
What about you? Have you tried no paranormal-element games? Would you like to, but you're not sure how? Does the very idea fill you with fear and loathing? Over to you...
Yes and no.
Most of my games, regardless of type, rely upon mundane motivations. Fantasy settings allow those mundane motivations to be actualized by extraordinary means (a spurned lover may resort to using a
charm person spell in order to win his lady back, or at least get her to do his laundry). Science fiction settings can have a similar actualization (a man loses his lover, so he has a companion robot built that resembles her as closely as possible). Both have mundane motivations even though how they are achieved are extraordinary.
As for mundane themes, those mostly occur in science fiction games for me. Mainly because fantasy, well, includes the fantastic as part of its basic structure.
Quote from: Balbinus;281160The PCs may be fighting the baron's men, but the baron isn't a sorceror, he's in debt to the king and raising taxes to try and buy his way out from under it, becoming increasingly brutal as it fails to work.
A group of shadowy individuals may be meeting in secret and have murdered a woman who found out too much, but they're a cartel dividing up rights to work on building sites in the city and muscling out anyone who doesn't go along with their plans. The woman was killed because she discovered their links to a local planning commissioner, and planned to go to the press.
The PCs may be fighting their way through Central Asia to stop a vicious warlord, but he isn't planning to raise an ancient evil, he's planning to take control of a Khanate and ally it with Russia and then take his troops to the Khyber Pass in the hope of conquering British India.
The mundane contains passion, hate, lust, greed, envy, bigotry, zealotry, pride, love, fear, all that rich human stuff. With all that, I find it slightly dispiriting that most rpgs rely on ancient curses, magical evils, dark sorceries and ultimately a great many rather lazy plot devices.
The indie crowd if anything are worse for this, so many of their games claim to be about deep human themes, but actually involve characters with amazing abilities. If the game's about pride and what you'll do for power say, why are the characters in giant fighting robots?
Well, the two positions you make up, do not seem to be that different. The method you are referring to has been known since antiquity: For tragedy the characters involved are nobles.
Because a normal person's pride my destroy him or her, but a king's pride destroys nations. Or as Spiderman would say: With great power comes great responsiblity. Superheroes are modern kings and queens.
That's why only bland superhero stories are actually about fighting giant robots. Fine superhero stories are about exerting noble power, just as your baron, your warlord, and even your city magistrate does.
Quote from: Balbinus;281160What about you? Have you tried no paranormal-element games? Would you like to, but you're not sure how? Does the very idea fill you with fear and loathing? Over to you...
Yep, many times. Many spies, historical and sci-fi games with no paranormal elements.
As my games are based always in human motivations and drama, anyway, I haven't found them better or worse that the games that included the paranormal stuff. :)
I absolutely love running mundane games.
I've run my Medieval Mysteries rpg many times and although I've occassionally been tempted to throw in a supernatural element, I never have and its probably been far better for it.
I frequently run westerns using Go Fer Yer Gun! (and a couple of other systems) rarely giving in to the urge to add a twist. I've also run other historical games set in the Napoloeonic wars, as well as in India in the days of the British Empire. Flashing Blades (FGU) is a great game for "mundane" adventure.
Lashings of Ginger Beer (my nosey kids rpg) has nothing "weird" about it - (although I'm definiely adding Cthulhu in next time I run it!)
One of my groups most often reminsced-about games that ran for about 6/7 sessions was my game set in a remote Scottish coastal island, based loosely on Hamish Macbeth. The scenarios revolved around an off-shore oilrig and the oil companies plans to buy the island and move everyone off. Although it turned into a Wicker-man-esque kind of thing, there was nothing really supernatural in it.
Several sessions also revolved around an annual inter-island football (soccer) competition and shenanigans involving match-fixing and there was one involving one of the PCs who was a retired rock star (and a rock magazine trying to track him down to persuade him into a band reunion).
Give me mundane anytime! (Well, sometimes anyway, depending on my mood!)
Simon W
I'm with the OP. I often used to run magic-less D&D, MERP and Shadowrun games (there was usually magic in the setting, but it was unavailable to the PCs and rare) and I think I prefer it that way.
Actually 'mundane' is the very point at issue; magic-heavy games often become more mundane than those without magic, in my experience. If your character can make a mountain disappear or kill a dragon with a word, what's left to do?
That's one thing about Magic Heavy games that bothers me... Magic used to do the simplest tasks such as do the laundry or the dishes bothers me to no end.
Personally I like to find a happy middle ground, which is why I prefer modern or historical settings with some 'beliefs as truths' thrown in. In a setting like Kult for example, I downplay the monstrous element a lot and make almost all of the NPCs human, as much as possible. It seems to give more meaning to the times when something supernatural does occur. But then again, my Kult games play out a lot like David Lynch films (at least I like to think so), where you sandwich two normal, mundane things with one, tiny, supernatural element. It works well.
For Call of Cthulhu (I don't run it, but I know how I would run it if I had the chance) I would use small groups of cultists and no huge conspiracies to conquer the world with masses of monsters. The monstrous things of the Cthulhu Mythos would be mostly hinted at until revealed... It fits the original material closer, IMO.
Would I play or run a completely 'mundane' setting. Yes, and yes! Would the rest of my group go for it... Maybe... But probably not for long campaigns.
Not sure if it qulifies as "mundane" but some of my favorite games were T2000, 2300AD and Heavy Gear.
I prefer modern and historical roleplaying games, without magic, to anything else. The two games I'd like to be running right now are Top Secret and Flashing Blades - modern (well, Eighties) spies and historical (Early Modern, to be specific) swashbucklers.