Flight, invisibility, line of sight ranges, areas of effect, teleportation, divination, mind reading, other mind-affecting effects.

Certain spells or abilities are game changers. But they aren't without their weaknesses. This is sort of inspired by the weird items discussion (the bag of flour) and the "problem spells" concept. But what are your mundane, dirt cheap, or stupidly easy answers to the bigger badder spells of D&D or other games?

I'll probably update this list as people come up with new spells and new solutions, but let's start with what we've got:

Invisibility: flour, dogs
Flight: ceilings, grappling hooks, arrows
Superior Range: break line of sight
Area Effects: spread out, cover
Teleportation: hazards on arrival
Divination:
Mind-Affecting:
Magic Minions:
Death Effects:

An addendum: Let's leave interruption, spell failure mechanisms, built-in costs for spells, etc. out of the discussion because those things are kind of system-specific and beyond the scope of the discussion.

Quote from: beejazz;567970But what are your mundane, dirt cheap, or stupidly easy answers to the bigger badder spells of D&D or other games?

I'm not interesting in countering spells that break the genre I'm going for in the first place. So I don't include them in the game (or remove them from play if they are already in the book).

Quote from: gleichman;567973I'm not interesting in countering spells that break the genre I'm going for in the first place. So I don't include them in the game (or remove them from play if they are already in the book).

I'm more talking about how you deal with (say) a flying opponent in game. As a player or when running an NPC.

If you want to remove spells that break genre as the GM, that's typically a good idea. I do it myself with most alignment based magic, for example. It just doesn't have much to do with what I'm asking.

Quote from: beejazz;567977I'm more talking about how you deal with (say) a flying opponent in game. As a player or when running an NPC.

Same way as flying opponents have been dealt with in reality. I shoot them down.

Quote from: gleichman;567983Same way as flying opponents have been dealt with in reality. I shoot them down.

Flight gets cited as a gamebreaker in so many threads, but yeah... pretty damn easy to counter with arrows, grappling hooks, fighting in a place with a low ceiling, etc.

Flight only gets dangerous in instances where the flier has superior range. He can hang out of range and fire until you flee. It's why in the game I'm writing I'm giving most magic a range shorter than that of an arrow.

Quote from: beejazz;567989Flight gets cited as a gamebreaker in so many threads, but yeah... pretty damn easy to counter with arrows, grappling hooks, fighting in a place with a low ceiling, etc.

Flight only gets dangerous in instances where the flier has superior range. He can hang out of range and fire until you flee. It's why in the game I'm writing I'm giving most magic a range shorter than that of an arrow.

The problem isn't flying, the problem is they're assuming:

1. One side has superior speed and/or mobility.
2. The same side has superior range.

Horsebowman vs. Pikeman sucks, but doesn't mean Horses or Bows are overpowered.

Quote from: CRKrueger;567992The problem isn't flying, the problem is you're assuming:

1. One side has superior speed and/or mobility.
2. The same side has superior range.

Horsebowman vs. Pikeman sucks, but doesn't mean Horses or Bows are overpowered.

Terrain can affect land movement. Usually this doesn't apply to the flying/not flying thing, unless the landbound can force the fight into a tighter space. Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't.

Additionally, the D&D version of this hovering caster will run out of those long range spells after a while. All the landbound have to do is take cover and wait out the duration of a bunch of fly spells. My game is built on at-will everything and has to follow a different sort of logic in some places.

Flight: Use raptorans from the Races of the Wild book as a primary race in your world.

Teleportation/divination: Some readily available material blocks them (lead perhaps)

Quote from: beejazz;567970Invisibility: flour, dogs
Flight: ceilings, grappling hooks, arrows
Superior Range: break line of sight
Area Effects: spread out
Teleportation:
Divination:
Mind-Affecting:
Magic Minions:
Death Effects:

When we played D&D, I always required a player to concentrate to fly. If the character was hit, they would have to make a saving throw or fall from the sky.

Take these suggestions as you will. I don't necessarily advocate any of these positions, because I feel D&D magic "cheats" challenges.

Invisibility is an easy one as well - scent and flour. You've already mentioned those, so I'd also recommend kicking up dirt around yourself.

Superior range - get behind a rock and wait for them to come to you. When outranged, take cover and let them sit until their spell wears off or until they get fed up enough to pursue you. With enough cover or dense foliage, you can hide and get a surprise attack.

Area effects are tricky. Hard objects block their spread, and so do corners.

Teleportation is a tricky one. There's not much you can really do if you're using traditional D&D.

Divination is easy - lead-lined walls. The AD&D DMG covers this extensively.

Mind-affecting - lead lined helmet. Once again, see above.

Magic minions - hire yourself a wizard to cast Dispel Magic. This could also be applied to fliers.

Death effects...do you mean power words? Wax plugs in your ears. Intonation isn't enough, one has to hear the words. The same goes for the age-old mirror and medusa petrification trick - cheat the system.

Man, I'm exasperated just thinking about all of these things. D&D magic only caused an extremely adversarial relationship between players and myself because we were always trying to one-up another by cheating challenges or employing the same tactics as one another (teleport, delayed blast fireball x3, teleport combo). I really don't miss D&D magic whatsoever.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;568031Death effects...do you mean power words? Wax plugs in your ears. Intonation isn't enough, one has to hear the words. The same goes for the age-old mirror and medusa petrification trick - cheat the system.

That'll do. I was taking them as a general class of abilities, but being able to mess with targeting parameters like sight and sound is fun. It would be funny if sufficiently loud noise could just drown out the language dependent stuff.
"He's trying to cast charm person!"
"Everybody scream at him!"

QuoteMan, I'm exasperated just thinking about all of these things. D&D magic only caused an extremely adversarial relationship between players and myself because we were always trying to one-up another by cheating challenges or employing the same tactics as one another (teleport, delayed blast fireball x3, teleport combo). I really don't miss D&D magic whatsoever.

It does have its.. quirks.

That said, good stuff above. I've got something similar to your flight rule except that it applies to everything with a duration. You can end mind-controllish stuff by smacking the mage in the head for example.

Teleportation: Pit Traps, Caltrops

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;568031Teleportation is a tricky one. There's not much you can really do if you're using traditional D&D.

Use a version of the rules where you actually have to roll to succeed at Teleporting and failure means you could end up inside another solid object irrevocably dead, with no corpse to resurrect.

You can require flight magic to take the caster along a path he chooses upon casting, so you could fly across a chasm, but you'd have no maneuverability.

You could also make flight magic dispel upon being hit (perhaps by silver, etc.)