Quote from: Pat on May 23, 2021, 11:36:30 AM

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on May 23, 2021, 07:48:30 AM

Quote from: Pat on May 22, 2021, 05:18:57 PM
For those who are interested, the 2e Van Richten's Guides are all pretty padded, with big margins, lots of wasted page, and lots of superfluous text. They tend to repeat all the abilities of the monster, just with many more words. But they do have some charm, with some interesting stories about hunters, and a greatly expanded list of options for further developing (and empowering) the monster. Best to worst:

My favorite is Ancient Dead. It's not perfect, but the flavor text is pretty good, and they take the basic idea of a mummy and make it an archetype that can cross cultural boundaries. Good list of powers.

Vampire is solid, but not terribly original.

Created has some good ideas, but its insistence that golems always and inevitably turn evil takes away from the moral ambiguity that makes Frankenstein great.

Liches and Fiends are pretty decent, but not as widely usable -- by their very nature, you'll typically only encounter one or maybe two in an entire campaign.

Ghosts is on the weak side, with a nice intro vignette that demonstrates powers that are never spelled out in the book, more excess verbiage than usual, a fairly predictable list of powers, and the section on mediums feels like an incomplete first draft.

Werebeasts is bad. It's the only book that doesn't really add much to the core monster. Want sires and bloodlines and nobles and corrupted spirits of nature? Nope.

I don't care that they turned Roma into monsters, but even without that the Vistani book is bad. They're boring, inconsistent, and treated far too much as a plot device.

These were some of the most useful books I ever used in a game. Lots of stuff in their to inspire adventures, lots of great optional stuff, and tons of ways to customize monsters, make them more interesting. Couldn't disagree more with this assessment

So you think they don't greatly expand the options for each monster, and don't have any interesting monster hunter stories?

No. I largely disagreed. On interesting monster hunt stories: yes, absolutely. These helped me understand how to create a functional, long term Ravenloft campaign. They were great. On option, yes, it greatly expanded options, which is part of what made Ravenloft work

There's a google doc written by a Roma discussing racism in the module. https://mobile.twitter.com/IlanaNight13/status/1277042876417888257

What are your thoughts?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 01:11:37 PM
There's a google doc written by a Roma discussing racism in the module. https://mobile.twitter.com/IlanaNight13/status/1277042876417888257

What are your thoughts?

That's more about running Curse of Strahd than the newer Van R's Guide, right? Is there an update that just hits the new points, because I'm not reading through a bunch of old shit to get to the new.

I can't believe how they destroyed this product...

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 01:11:37 PM
There's a google doc written by a Roma discussing racism in the module. https://mobile.twitter.com/IlanaNight13/status/1277042876417888257

What are your thoughts?

He's available for 'consultation' apparently... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And you can support him on Ko Fi (whatever the fuck that is).

Do you think that the portrayal of the vistani played into harmful stereotypes of romani?

Behind every SJW movement there is a grifter making threats against your character unless you pay them.

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on May 23, 2021, 12:58:22 PM

No. I largely disagreed. On interesting monster hunt stories: yes, absolutely. These helped me understand how to create a functional, long term Ravenloft campaign. They were great. On option, yes, it greatly expanded options, which is part of what made Ravenloft work

I gave a largely positive review, and the only thing you really said (even now) is that you disagreed, and that you liked the books. Since those two contradict each other, I pointed out the incongruity.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 01:50:38 PM
Do you think that the portrayal of the vistani played into harmful stereotypes of romani?

No.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on May 23, 2021, 03:00:51 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 01:50:38 PM
Do you think that the portrayal of the vistani played into harmful stereotypes of romani?

No.

Why not?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 01:11:37 PM
There's a google doc written by a Roma discussing racism in the module. https://mobile.twitter.com/IlanaNight13/status/1277042876417888257

What are your thoughts?

the extra ref material is helpful so it's not pure finger-waggins but i'll do what is fine with my group and not the people who aren't in it

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 03:14:28 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on May 23, 2021, 03:00:51 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 01:50:38 PM
Do you think that the portrayal of the vistani played into harmful stereotypes of romani?

No.

Why not?

Why would they?

Quote from: Eirikrautha on May 23, 2021, 03:43:02 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 03:14:28 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on May 23, 2021, 03:00:51 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 01:50:38 PM
Do you think that the portrayal of the vistani played into harmful stereotypes of romani?

No.

Why not?

Why would they?

Because they're copied from racist stereotypes of Romani?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 23, 2021, 01:11:37 PM
There's a google doc written by a Roma discussing racism in the module. https://mobile.twitter.com/IlanaNight13/status/1277042876417888257

What are your thoughts?

Greetings!

The chick that wrote that "Roma Correction" for changing Curse of Strahd is a fucking moron. That's what I think.

The Vistani of Ravenloft are a fictional culture of mostly corrupted, evil humans that serve Strahd and other wicked, evil powers. They don't have any real connection with Roma or Gypsy peoples in our own world. The Vistani are based on the fantasy gypsy mercenaries, thugs, and cultists of Coppola's 1992 DRACULA, and various other vampire and horror movies over the last 70 years. For example, the Hammer vampire films, Christopher Lee, Peter Cushing starring, along with all the hot Italian and Romanian actresses that accompanied them.

Such films also employed many older men and women, serving as townsmen, Gypsies, mystics, spies, village priests, and more which added immensely to the fantasy entertainment.

Who the fuck watches an old Hammer vampire movie--or 1992 Dracula, and thinks..."Hmmm...Gypsy people down the road...they must be evil, drunk thieves, casting the Evil Eye on people!"

This absolute disconnect between consuming, enjoying, and discerning fiction--in games here--and reality--reflects just how intellectually flaccid these Liberal, SJW racists truly are. These fucking slugs are themselves full of racism, hate, self-loathing, and a Marxist brainwashed desire to forcibly create a mindless, soulless, Marxist utopia.

I think the stereotypes concerning VISTANI in the game are fucking AWESOME! They create an instant pool of dark villains, mystics, and lackies to help the villains and oppose the player characters. Such a sub-culture is distinct, and very playable and useful in any campaign.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

This also got me thinking about a similar realm. Have any of you ever played Advanced Squad Leader, or Rise and Decline of the Third Reich? How about Axis & Allies? Essentially the same thing.

When you are playing the Werhmacht, and crushing your pathetic enemies under your Panzers, and raising the Swastika over their capital cities in triumph--are you actually a Nazi serving the Third Reich?

All of these Marxist Liberal activists in our gaming hobby are terrible people, nihilistic, and bent on corrupting and destroying our hobby, as well as our society. They are all deeply, mentally ill, and hopelessly brainwashed and emotionally damaged.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK