Would the iconic settings of Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms have any legs as the default setting for 5E? My feeling is no. I loved GH in 1E and 2E and even liked the 3E treatment but its day is done. FR has been more heavily supported and popular for ages but again, I think it might struggle to recover from the spell plague. So should 5E be completely setting neutral (sounds pretty bland) or would it be best served by coming with a totally kick arse new setting that isn't too heavily mired in the rules?
I thought they already said FR was going to be the default setting... could be wrong though.
They said that Forgotten Realms would be the default setting, with the implication that you could pick any era.
Quote from: Abyssal Maw;503359They said that Forgotten Realms would be the default setting, with the implication that you could pick any era.
Damn, wouldn't be my choice but picking the era would help a little. Interesting. It was their most popular setting ever but still, it smacks a little of conservatism.
Quote from: Fiasco;503363Damn, wouldn't be my choice but picking the era would help a little. Interesting. It was their most popular setting ever but still, it smacks a little of conservatism.
It's clear they're off the "let's break this in NEW AND EXCITING WAYS" treadmill and they're looking at what sold, and sold
really really well plus what's capturing the gamers who have left them or who didn't move up to 3e, and aiming at that.
I prefer Greyhawk and find FR to be anathema but it's just simple dollars here.
Besides, if I like 5e enough to play its not as though I can't "make it Greyhawk".
Quote from: thedungeondelver;503376I prefer Greyhawk and find FR to be anathema but it's just simple dollars here.
Really? I mean, I understand the feeling for most of the setting's run, but you feel that way about the original Grey Box too?
I like it a lot, personally.
Quote from: Benoist;503379Really? I mean, I understand the feeling for most of the setting's run, but you feel that way about the original Grey Box too?
I like it a lot, personally.
FR was a big step towards Story Railroad (a trip that Dragonlance began at the same time), and the host of Mary Sue characters Greenwood put in it left me absolutely flat. I mean, weren't there modules where Elminster would literally just show up and save the characters' asses? And it was recommended?
Quote from: thedungeondelver;503376It's clear they're off the "let's break this in NEW AND EXCITING WAYS" treadmill and they're looking at what sold, and sold really really well plus what's capturing the gamers who have left them or who didn't move up to 3e, and aiming at that.
I prefer Greyhawk and find FR to be anathema but it's just simple dollars here.
Besides, if I like 5e enough to play its not as though I can't "make it Greyhawk".
Oh I agree that FR makes complete sense. I just hope they don't end up completely second guessing themselves and refusing to introduce any innovation.
I could do without that prick Elminster, however.
"pick your own era" FR sourcebook should be interesting. then again, it'll mean multiple stat blocks for drizzt and elminster :rolleyes: :banghead:
a 5e mystara book would be neat, tho
Quote from: beeber;503385"pick your own era" FR sourcebook should be interesting. then again, it'll mean multiple stat blocks for drizzt and elminster :rolleyes: :banghead:
a 5e mystara book would be neat, tho
I loved Karameikos.
I'm happy with FR being the basic setting, as let's face it - it was the "face" of DnD for quite a while now, especially in CRPGs.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;503382FR was a big step towards Story Railroad (a trip that Dragonlance began at the same time), and the host of Mary Sue characters Greenwood put in it left me absolutely flat. I mean, weren't there modules where Elminster would literally just show up and save the characters' asses? And it was recommended?
Absolutely, hence my understanding your feeling on the question. But the original Grey Box is more of a blank slate. It's a good setting, really. It's afterwards with the modules and add-ons that it became completely stupid. And don't get me started on the Times of Troubles, Spellplague and reboots.
Quote from: Benoist;503392Absolutely, hence my understanding your feeling on the question. But the original Grey Box is more of a blank slate. It's a good setting, really. It's afterwards with the modules and add-ons that it became completely stupid. And don't get me started on the Times of Troubles, Spellplague and reboots.
Spellplague I'd agree, ToT not that much. Still though, the original fluff on the Dead Three was not too great to begin with.
I mean come on, a BOWLING GAME?
Quote from: Benoist;503392Absolutely, hence my understanding your feeling on the question. But the original Grey Box is more of a blank slate. It's a good setting, really. It's afterwards with the modules and add-ons that it became completely stupid. And don't get me started on the Times of Troubles, Spellplague and reboots.
The grey box was great. I followed FR up to the time of troubles and that was it. Haven't looked at or purchased anything since.
my take as noted before woudl be a default setting of FR that was the basic vanilla setting.
Tie the rule expansions to other setting so Grey hawk might be an advanced magic setting for example.
I woudl go on to leveage the suces sof the MTG block rotation model to have a new settign each year that had mechanical changes (but was compatible with the whole) so new races or classes for example woudl be tied to new settings.
The living FR equivalent woudl carry on down teh basic content only path with new living settigns on a rolling annual model with new rules tied to that setting.
Standard play groups coudl just grab stuff from anywhere and mix and max as you like.
I might well leverage the art and work done for Mtg blocks which also have their own settings as a context for an inspiration of the annual D&D setting. So looking at MtG specifically you just finished a Mirrodin block where the settign was theMirrodin and the game play was about an invasion of the pheryxians. So you have cat warriors, elephant men, living machines, fallen elves the idea of a massive forest called the tangle full of poisonous beasts etc.
You can tie that to a D&D setting that uses a bunch of new mechanisms etc. and delivers the 'treadmill' of stuff. But this time you can totlaly miss out a whole setting or just ignore the lot.
Back in the DDI skills, feats, classes, spells, monsters etc are tied to a setting so if a DM says I am playign a Mirrodin game everyone knows what is in and what is out.
The fact that these settings are already designed for MtG means that a lot of the up front design work is done for you and you have a feel and a some economies of scale and cross referencing of the player base.
For those that don't want to use the settings you can issue occassional summary books gathering rules across settings by theme but also they are already in the DDI. Also of course you can play in the generic FR setting with just he base game.
Quote from: Benoist;503392Absolutely, hence my understanding your feeling on the question. But the original Grey Box is more of a blank slate. It's a good setting, really. It's afterwards with the modules and add-ons that it became completely stupid. And don't get me started on the Times of Troubles, Spellplague and reboots.
OK; I mean, I never had the Grey Box so I'm out of the loop on exactly when the FR turned to crap.
I will say I enjoyed the first Baldur's Gate game, though!
Quote from: jibbajibba;503409my take as noted before woudl be a default setting of FR that was the basic vanilla setting.
Tie the rule expansions to other setting so Grey hawk might be an advanced magic setting for example.
I woudl go on to leveage the suces sof the MTG block rotation model to have a new settign each year that had mechanical changes (but was compatible with the whole) so new races or classes for example woudl be tied to new settings.
The living FR equivalent woudl carry on down teh basic content only path with new living settigns on a rolling annual model with new rules tied to that setting.
Standard play groups coudl just grab stuff from anywhere and mix and max as you like.
I might well leverage the art and work done for Mtg blocks which also have their own settings as a context for an inspiration of the annual D&D setting. So looking at MtG specifically you just finished a Mirrodin block where the settign was theMirrodin and the game play was about an invasion of the pheryxians. So you have cat warriors, elephant men, living machines, fallen elves the idea of a massive forest called the tangle full of poisonous beasts etc.
You can tie that to a D&D setting that uses a bunch of new mechanisms etc. and delivers the 'treadmill' of stuff. But this time you can totlaly miss out a whole setting or just ignore the lot.
Back in the DDI skills, feats, classes, spells, monsters etc are tied to a setting so if a DM says I am playign a Mirrodin game everyone knows what is in and what is out.
The fact that these settings are already designed for MtG means that a lot of the up front design work is done for you and you have a feel and a some economies of scale and cross referencing of the player base.
For those that don't want to use the settings you can issue occassional summary books gathering rules across settings by theme but also they are already in the DDI. Also of course you can play in the generic FR setting with just he base game.
i never understood why WotC didn't do just that--all they'd have to do is stat that stuff up and bingo, instant supplement treadmill as you've said. have your company's divisions work together for the greater profit, etc.
I dont mind FR being the default setting myself as it just means i get to find new and imaginative ways to kill drizzt and elminster all over again :)
I would have gone with mystara or eberron myself though as niether has a ton of baggage connected to them and mystara could use a new edition or heck just the old stuff reprinted again.
FR is the default setting for D&D, whether anyone likes it or not. Its not my personal favorite D&D setting (that'd be Mystara) but its by far the best known.
The real question is indeed, can they REALLY set it up so "you can play any era" or is it more practically going to be "we'll be supporting a particular era, and you can theoretically play in any other but you'll get no real help from us"?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;503777The real question is indeed, can they REALLY set it up so "you can play any era" or is it more practically going to be "we'll be supporting a particular era, and you can theoretically play in any other but you'll get no real help from us"?
Correct.
Let's say they create a campaign setting or box with multiple maps. Big sections for each big era of the realms, and Grey Box like gazetteers within each section. At the end, the entirety of the content of the sourcebook "the Grand History of the Realms". That might be something to behold right there.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;503421OK; I mean, I never had the Grey Box so I'm out of the loop on exactly when the FR turned to crap.
I will say I enjoyed the first Baldur's Gate game, though!
I loved the Baldur's Gate games. They've been inspirations for my games from time to time, actually. This is great stuff.
I wish I could show you the Grey Box. It's really a nice boxed set without strings attached. You can do a lot with it without feeling Ed Greenwood rubbing Elminster's dick in your face.
Quote from: Benoist;503785I wish I could show you the Grey Box. It's really a nice boxed set without strings attached. You can do a lot with it without feeling Ed Greenwood rubbing Elminster's dick in your face.
That's only because the pages are coated with Rohypnol. The truth will come to you later, in your dreams.
All four eras means four times the supplements to sell, most of which can just be recycled flavour text with new stats.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;503382FR was a big step towards Story Railroad (a trip that Dragonlance began at the same time), and the host of Mary Sue characters Greenwood put in it left me absolutely flat. I mean, weren't there modules where Elminster would literally just show up and save the characters' asses? And it was recommended?
No man, 1st Edition Forgotten Realms was gold. FR1-6 supplements were good (a couple of the second edition ones were good two, like the Mulhorand and Dwarf one). Of course Time of Troubles, no Demons and Devils and all the other 2E bullshit was crap, but the original stuff was awesome.
Quote from: CRKrueger;503832No man, 1st Edition Forgotten Realms was gold. FR1-6 supplements were good (a couple of the second edition ones were good two, like the Mulhorand and Dwarf one). Of course Time of Troubles, no Demons and Devils and all the other 2E bullshit was crap, but the original stuff was awesome.
Ever use the 1E Waterdeep box set?
Quote from: Aos;503789That's only because the pages are coated with Rohypnol. The truth will come to you later, in your dreams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbxsmcT7GOk
I was kind of torn as to whether to go with this one or the version by Coil. I think the original suits nicely.
All kidding aside, I'll take y'alls word on the FR matter. I don't know what's in the early FR material because I can't know. I open the grey boxed set...then...its like missing time.
(oh god aos was right)
I love the idea of Forgotten Realms as the main setting. Honestly, it should be the ONLY setting. Publishing multiple settings does not work, as seen by TSR. Different eras is a really cool idea. If they are smart, the first book will be around the time right after 3e, before the spellplague. That would bring back a lot of people.
Quote from: danbuter;503890I love the idea of Forgotten Realms as the main setting. Honestly, it should be the ONLY setting. Publishing multiple settings does not work, as seen by TSR.
I think that's an "old economy" way of thinking. Also, the very nature of how many different versions and editions and settings are being bought regularly prove that this is not strictly true. The only way its true is when someone says "hmm, I could either buy greyhawk or FR, I'll pick one". But if they were never ever going to buy your setting A in the first place, selling them Setting B is NOT competing with yourself, it is getting a new customer you'd never have had otherwise.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Benoist;503785I loved the Baldur's Gate games. They've been inspirations for my games from time to time, actually. This is great stuff.
I wish I could show you the Grey Box. It's really a nice boxed set without strings attached. You can do a lot with it without feeling Ed Greenwood rubbing Elminster's dick in your face.
The Greybox is awesome material.
Greyhawk was total horsecrap.
Back in the 90's, I played Palladium, but many of my friends played DnD. For the longest time I thought Forgotten Realms was the default setting.
Quote from: everloss;504145Back in the 90's, I played Palladium, but many of my friends played DnD. For the longest time I thought Forgotten Realms was the default setting.
For all intents and purposes it was the default setting...
Quote from: Ancientgamer1970;504142The Greybox is awesome material.
Greyhawk was total horsecrap.
The Greyhawk 1e hardback has the best set of spells in D&D.
Quote from: jibbajibba;504221The Greyhawk 1e hardback has the best set of spells in D&D.
Honeydew tastes better than cantaloupe. :rolleyes:
Quote from: danbuter;503890I love the idea of Forgotten Realms as the main setting. Honestly, it should be the ONLY setting. Publishing multiple settings does not work, as seen by TSR. Different eras is a really cool idea. If they are smart, the first book will be around the time right after 3e, before the spellplague. That would bring back a lot of people.
I can't agree with that TSR sold a lot of product round Dark Sun, SpellJammer, GreyHawk, FR, Mystera, then if you add 3rd party settings ...
As I have been posting about the place on the 5e threads multiple settings has been an excellent model for MtG. it also means you can create creatures classes and powers that use different mechanics and they stay consistent.
One of the real strengths of MtG (and I have to say one of the reasons why a lot of people hate it as well...) is that the current set is always in motion. They release a new setting every year, or they revisit a setting. Each setting has a different feel with different mechanical elements creatures spells etc.
Personally I would use the MtG settings and release D&D settings for them. That might be a step too far for some D&D players but its all optional and the DDI has all the content in it anyway and the MtG settings do something unique they shake up the game. From a business perspective it's just too tempting. You already have the background concepts, you already have races, classes, spells, creatures, geography and artwork, really good artwork. In addition there are fanatical MtG players who will buy the setting books just for the fluff and for the collection. You might also find D&D players buying Mtg cards but that is less critical as that business is already making $$$. Those Mtg players well some of them used to be RPGers and some of them never were but they are gamers so they have to be a fertile demographic right ?