Quote from: zircher on February 06, 2023, 10:40:21 PM
Heh, I literally hit all of the OP's check boxes, except that I have totally given up on playing with groups because I also have one more check box...

[X] Jealous spouse that will actively sabotage any face-to-face or online group that I'm in.

Remember boys and girls, don't be like Uncle Todd, marry a gamer or at least someone that has a freaking hobby.   

Or marry a good Christian, conservative woman that knows you need one and respects it. Furthermore she knows your hobby is dirt cheap, doesn't involve getting drunk on some joint and snorting blow from a hooker's ass so she knows she hit the jackpot.

Although I do envy those who have a gamer wife/GF.

Well, my present approach to this is a little different, firstly (D6 System as core engine only) I'm not one to play online so meatspace only; I (even in the backwoods) can always grab players of varying demographics and levels of prior play experience if I so chose, just physically go to schools colleges churches courthouses any public high traffic place really and recruit like you are john the baptist, easy peasy really.

"Hello there! My name is slip I'm gonna try to run a tabletop game, think risk or monopoly or D&D, every two weeks or so and I'm looking for interested peoples or people like critters, it's a long running affair you can drop in and out of as you have free time and is sort of the pre-internet pre-cursor to the modern mmo computer games that are so popular now, actual play is face to face in any location with a table some chairs at least coal-mine level lighting and protection from wind and rain, although a nearby toilet and supply of snacks is always good too. If you are interested please exchange contact info with my secretary there and i will pester you when things begin to align".

This works exceedingly well, as far as I rarely have trouble filling a seat. BUT...My big fat BUT....

I try too hard to please everyone. I was that idiot that took the golden rule to heart. I'm terribly bad about trying to triangulate what everyone claims to want from the game into the best that can be collectively delivered in terms of pleasing them all. I find this has gotten harder over time as cultural tastes change; I rant about anime and how its always a jolly roger flying above negative experiences but at the same time 2/3rds of what constitutes anime is not to my eye anime, when i'm going on about it airbender or speedracer for example are not included in my mind in that list of "anime" so this confounds communicating with players below the age of say 25. There are very specific japanese words for the types of anime that trigger my shit, chibi or hentai or whatever, but not wanting to give the notion credibility i am reluctant to sharpen my lexicon in this regard and so just say anime.

So the first hurdle after seating is screening and as I said above I often find myself and the subject talking past each other on the no or minimal anime trope/influence part. The tropes are probably the most damaging but the art is what fouls my mood, you show up with a binder covered in stickers of arguably sexualized precious moments looking anime girls my brain fills with thunder clouds my mood sours and no sucker is getting an even break, my enthusiasm is kill son. I will be completely unable to relax and enjoy running the game while wondering if you are a psychopath that secretly has  some strange "put the lotion in the basket" ritual you perform before arriving. (on the other hand if you showed up with a binder covered in misfits stickers i'd probably let you get away with sleeping drunk at the table only saying "i swing!" and rolling some dice every now and then)



But typically play begins before screening is complete, in fact, a session or two of play is the field test and finalizing of screening I would say. Now, when exactly does the campaign as such begin? heh! Good question, the last few years my experience has been thus:

When you've got a group together, enough to play but perhaps not everyone who wanted or intends to play, you can begin feeling them out about what they want out of the game and trying to find that triangulated spot. First each of them likely comes with baggage, this one wants to play 5e or wants elements therefrom, that one wants stuff from vtm, that one rifts...so i cram their shit through the D6 system filter and we give it a test run, then more discuss, then perhaps more revise then more test, with additional people dropping in and out across sessions and sometimes with multiple or different characters, and as it goes I find that they gradually ask you to shed the limitations they first asked for and move back toward core D6 the more they play.

They first suffer analysis paralysis with just D6, ask for the addition of things (restrictions really in terms of mechanics) such as class or level or whatever so they have some familiar rails, and then, just as they did back in 2e with skills & powers begin questioning "why can't my wizard wear armor" or similar. And thats just like, the mechanics aspect, DON'T get me started on how they are with setting, especially Dragonlance. Jesus hold my whiskey.

As of our last session, which was mostly my mass combat rules which everyone seems to like well enough (using 6 siders with pips as minis/troop total counters), and my telling them "hey assholes you know we could borrow more from pendragon/ars magicka and do multiple characters per player, each player with an estate or organization his characters are officers/leaders in and break the game session up into 4 seasonal phases and such and go heavier on these big dragon-army battles" they wanted to take time to read all the D6 pdfs and then re-convene. At first they had me get osric and devise a simple conversion process so as to essentially play ad&d with D6 as core engine, now they are starting to realize that such is largely just limiting of character options that are otherwise normally available by default in D6 for the purpose of thematic reinforcment, ie, wizards wear robes because...well because they do dammit!

Not exactly the online mess OP has encountered, but certainly its own ball of headache, tears, triumph, and spilled mountaindew.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 21, 2023, 11:54:30 PM
Or marry a good Christian, conservative woman that knows you need one and respects it. Furthermore she knows your hobby is dirt cheap, doesn't involve getting drunk on some joint and snorting blow from a hooker's ass so she knows she hit the jackpot.

Although I do envy those who have a gamer wife/GF.

What if I told you I had a good Christian, conservative wife that is also a gamer?  A casual gamer, granted, but she's playing in the games.

Quote from: I on February 21, 2023, 11:06:07 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 05, 2023, 06:09:26 PM

Quote from: I on February 05, 2023, 05:45:51 PM

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 04, 2023, 12:21:04 AM

Working on my own system has cut this down even more, because now I've only got time for the top 2 things instead of top 3, and I honestly would rather work on that system than make priority 3 happen.  Out of the 20 odd players that I get to sometimes come to my 2 groups right now, they feel even more strongly about it.  They are fine playing a different system for a moderately long campaign (e.g. 18-24 months), but they do not want to change systems very often.  I'm the only one of all those people that even care about learning new systems.

You get twenty-odd players to come to your groups?  Online or in person?  If the answer is "in person," let us know the name of this gaming Mecca so that I may sell all of my worldly possessions (save my dice) and move thereto.

If he's running 5E or PF, he could be in any medium to large U.S. city.

You're undoubtedly right.  But I'd rather spend an entire evening with my face buried in Claude Akins' asscrack than play either one of those games.

As a technical statement of fact, he is correct.  The implication, however, is completely wrong, as explained in the quote that started it and my later clarification.  I am not running 5E now, and I've never even considered running PF.  If I had skipped 5E entirely, I'd still have similar groups.  When I did run 5E, I ran it more like BECMI/RC than 5E, which is part of the reason I developed that second group.

Point being, a GM that is willing to recruit and find players for a good game that they enjoy running can do that.  You may not get exactly everything you want in a player, because at least half of them will be casual players.  However, what you will get if you go this route is some people that you enjoy spending time around, with whom you have no reservations about coming into your home, minimal "drama", and sustainable gaming.

Look, the people in my groups won't play just anything.  There's a lot of things that I'd like to try that they'll never do.  I get it.  On the other hand, there are things they'd like to play that I'm never going to run.  So it cuts both ways.  There's an area where I'll run it and they'll play it, and we are all happy to do that.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 22, 2023, 08:27:08 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 21, 2023, 11:54:30 PM
Or marry a good Christian, conservative woman that knows you need one and respects it. Furthermore she knows your hobby is dirt cheap, doesn't involve getting drunk on some joint and snorting blow from a hooker's ass so she knows she hit the jackpot.

Although I do envy those who have a gamer wife/GF.

What if I told you I had a good Christian, conservative wife that is also a gamer?  A casual gamer, granted, but she's playing in the games.

Now you're just being a cruel show off. (Seriously tho, congratulations man you won the lottery)

Quote from: Slipshot762 on February 22, 2023, 12:08:16 AM
Well, my present approach to this is a little different, firstly (D6 System as core engine only) I'm not one to play online so meatspace only; I (even in the backwoods) can always grab players of varying demographics and levels of prior play experience if I so chose, just physically go to schools colleges churches courthouses any public high traffic place really and recruit like you are john the baptist, easy peasy really.

...

Not exactly the online mess OP has encountered, but certainly its own ball of headache, tears, triumph, and spilled mountaindew.

Wow that was a wild ride.

I too have wrangled groups of randos and so far it's worked. I have been very accommodating in the past, but now, more often than not, I just say here's what I'm running, join if you want. Or sometimes, here are two games I want to run, which do you like best?

A topic that has come up lately, that sounds like it applies here, "Lonely Fun". There is a huge market for gaming related things that can be done alone even if they are implied to be a group activity. Way more people like the idea of gaming than like actual interaction with people.
You can see this with the types of material that are popular. Why go you need glossy pictures unless it is intended to actually be a "Coffee Table" book?
There is more of a market for bare miniatures than pre-colored ones because the actual activity is paint them.
Many other activities are done with only lip service to Actual Play.

Quote from: Greentongue on February 22, 2023, 01:26:25 PMThere is more of a market for bare miniatures than pre-colored ones because the actual activity is paint them.

Eh, there have always been plenty of players that have wanted good quality pre-painted minis, even Warhammer players way back in the 90's. But it's only now that the technology is getting to the point where reasonably priced, good quality pre-paints is within reach.

I dislike the way some mini painters are elitist about this stuff. Having a pre-painted line alongside un-painted doesn't take anything away, and the people who enjoy painting can still be smug about their army quality. Some people just want to be able to play in the game.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 22, 2023, 03:25:06 PM

Quote from: Greentongue on February 22, 2023, 01:26:25 PMThere is more of a market for bare miniatures than pre-colored ones because the actual activity is paint them.

Eh, there have always been plenty of players that have wanted good quality pre-painted minis, even Warhammer players way back in the 90's. But it's only now that the technology is getting to the point where reasonably priced, good quality pre-paints is within reach.

I dislike the way some mini painters are elitist about this stuff. Having a pre-painted line alongside un-painted doesn't take anything away, and the people who enjoy painting can still be smug about their army quality. Some people just want to be able to play in the game.

Which is why I use paper miniatures from https://www.printableheroes.com/ In a few 3 ring binders I can fit hundreds of miniatures.

I only wish there was a similar place to get miniatures for other genres besides Fantasy.

So occasionally I scroll through Looking For Group/Game threads, because as a masochist I love seeing 5E/PF until I go snow blind. Here's a winner I saw today:


--- Game System Preferred: D&D 5e, All 100% Homebrew Allowed, I Preferred To Be In A Solo OR One-on-One Campaign Rather Than A Group Which I Discovered.

About Me: I'm looking for a 100% Homebrew, I haven't played a game because I was kicked out for not fitting into their game style because I want to play as a Solo Player. I'm searching for a game I can fit in that was medium combat, high roleplay, and more puzzles. I want a DM that approves all homebrew, including Homebrew Class, Homebrew Spells, Homebrew Items, Homebrew Adventures, and Homebrew Subclass. I have been playing DND 5e for four years since corvid. I want to play in a solo campaign because that is what I found out when I leave games that have a group I want to be the charge of my own game and roleplay.---

Quote from: ForgottenF on February 04, 2023, 01:54:06 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 04, 2023, 01:06:28 AM

Quote from: Jam The MF on February 04, 2023, 12:55:44 AM
Why not just advertise what it is that you are looking to run?  Just filter people out, with your pitch.  "I am looking to run game "X", via ruleset "Y",  with true old school sensibilities.  If you can handle that, and that sounds like fun to you; let's try to set something up.

Then any further filtering, can take place in private.

Look at my sig. I lay everything out, extensively list what I want to run, what I'd prefer to play. I went out of my way for clarity.

People simply don't read.

If I can presume to try and read Jam's mind, the usual procedure in the VTT world is to do your posts with a specific campaign pitch. i.e., "I'm running X kind of Campaign with Y system, at Z time, and I need XX number of players." I think he just meant you might get more frequent/reliable applicants that way, rather than with a general game-group listing. You might have better luck advertising specific campaigns first, and then using that to build a player group.

I see what you're saying but I've had the same issue Grognard has had. Even when I expressly say what kind of game I'm running, what system it uses, tone and so on. I get people who sign up and then demand I use 5e and let them Murderhobo because something something Matt Mercer. And it is very fustrating. They don't want to read, they don't want to pick a GM who would actually fit them. They just think all GMs are there to enable their specific fantasies as opposed to PLAY A GAME. I'm not trying to force people to play my games. If they don't like it they don't have to. But so many of these Critical Role people have got it into their heads that they can just dictate to the GM without any kind of discussion. I'm happy to discuss things to a certain extent. But I've always held that the GMs word is final. And after a while there's no one left who's decent to game with.

I'll jump on the bandwagon here. I think the best gaming buddies I've had were friends first (or family). I just happened to begin gaming with them at some point.

The alternative is to try and seek out gamers who you don't really know. That's a minefield, and overall I don't enjoy it as much.

As for me? I'm a grognard, but even when I was first starting out there were only a few games or genres I was interested in playing. Over the decades I have been talked into "just trying" things I wasn't interested in. Never works out, so I'm much less likely to go that route any more. Especially since I certainly know what types of games I like by now, and I really, really don't enjoy learning new rules sets.

Quote from: zircher on February 06, 2023, 10:40:21 PM
Heh, I literally hit all of the OP's check boxes, except that I have totally given up on playing with groups because I also have one more check box...

[X] Jealous spouse that will actively sabotage any face-to-face or online group that I'm in.

Remember boys and girls, don't be like Uncle Todd, marry a gamer or at least someone that has a freaking hobby.   

See, that just fuking blows. Is she allowed to go out with her BFFs? If she is, lay down the fuking law. Marriage is an EQUAL relationship. If she can hang with her friends, you can hang with yours too.

your situation might be a little more nuanced than that, so I don't know. Regardless, you should have an opportunity to do the things you like, and let here know it's not a detrament to the relationship.

Quote from: blackstone on February 24, 2023, 10:34:44 AM

Quote from: zircher on February 06, 2023, 10:40:21 PM
Heh, I literally hit all of the OP's check boxes, except that I have totally given up on playing with groups because I also have one more check box...

[X] Jealous spouse that will actively sabotage any face-to-face or online group that I'm in.

Remember boys and girls, don't be like Uncle Todd, marry a gamer or at least someone that has a freaking hobby.   

See, that just fuking blows. Is she allowed to go out with her BFFs? If she is, lay down the fuking law. Marriage is an EQUAL relationship. If she can hang with her friends, you can hang with yours too.

your situation might be a little more nuanced than that, so I don't know. Regardless, you should have an opportunity to do the things you like, and let here know it's not a detrament to the relationship.

He's a day late and a dollar short to that conversation.

I know past gaming friends where their wives feel they're being magnanimous to allow them a few hours a week for their 'silly little games.' There's a guy who can only do 3 hours on a Sunday, after he makes her dinner, and he may be late if there's a dancing on ice special or some such she wants him to watch with her.

I can not imagine being in a relationship where my wife would ever say such things to me, let alone one where I'd take it.

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 24, 2023, 10:40:10 AM

Quote from: blackstone on February 24, 2023, 10:34:44 AM

Quote from: zircher on February 06, 2023, 10:40:21 PM
Heh, I literally hit all of the OP's check boxes, except that I have totally given up on playing with groups because I also have one more check box...

[X] Jealous spouse that will actively sabotage any face-to-face or online group that I'm in.

Remember boys and girls, don't be like Uncle Todd, marry a gamer or at least someone that has a freaking hobby.   

See, that just fuking blows. Is she allowed to go out with her BFFs? If she is, lay down the fuking law. Marriage is an EQUAL relationship. If she can hang with her friends, you can hang with yours too.

your situation might be a little more nuanced than that, so I don't know. Regardless, you should have an opportunity to do the things you like, and let here know it's not a detrament to the relationship.

He's a day late and a dollar short to that conversation.

I know past gaming friends where their wives feel they're being magnanimous to allow them a few hours a week for their 'silly little games.' There's a guy who can only do 3 hours on a Sunday, after he makes her dinner, and he may be late if there's a dancing on ice special or some such she wants him to watch with her.

I can not imagine being in a relationship where my wife would ever say such things to me, let alone one where I'd take it.

Sounds like something my ex-wife would have tried. Low self esteem manifests as all kinds of bizarre controlling behavior.

"If you love someone, set them free smother them in needy attention-seeking craziness."