So, to clarify, I am against the "disneyfication" so to speak of irl time periods in recent rpg media; ie the massive downplay of racism in the 1920s by chaosium and the constant simpering ""trigger warnings"" and ""x-cards"" and such and such bs.

Having said that, it also seems to me that basically all irl history till the last half-century or so (in the USA and other first world countries) can be summarized as ""start with crushing poverty/scarcity, brutality, genocide, sexism, classism, and tribalism, then add imperialism, alphabet-ppl-phobia, fascism, authoritarianism and religious oppression to taste.""  (pardon if inaccurate; working on two history classes in public hs)

So what exactly is the appeal of playing in such a setting, especially if I want to convince others to do it? Are there any good examples of such a setting being handled well?

Fun.

Its a very niche thing some people try to push for whatever reason as if it is the be all and end all of the bestest best gaming!

It CAN work. But it feels like some of the advocates come across as borderline elitist and that drives people away.

TSR did a whole series on playing D&D in historical settings. Not bad books really.

Polyhedron had one for doing 3e/d20 to play Robin Hood setting and one to play World War II.

Pretty sure Call of Cthulhu had a setting book for playing in the dark ages and the Victorian era.

Theres a couple of others. And a couple of failures. One in particular being "Fantasy Wargaming" a not really RPG set in medieval times.

Quote from: Omega on May 07, 2025, 12:32:29 PMIts a very niche thing some people try to push for whatever reason as if it is the be all and end all of the bestest best gaming!

It CAN work. But it feels like some of the advocates come across as borderline elitist and that drives people away.

TSR did a whole series on playing D&D in historical settings. Not bad books really.

Polyhedron had one for doing 3e/d20 to play Robin Hood setting and one to play World War II.

Pretty sure Call of Cthulhu had a setting book for playing in the dark ages and the Victorian era.

Theres a couple of others. And a couple of failures. One in particular being "Fantasy Wargaming" a not really RPG set in medieval times.

Thx! Any links or names?

i find a player usually pines verbally for such a setting or thematic when what they really are trying to communicate is that they do not wish to learn anything of a setting they are unfamiliar with, such as your own if custom or a published one like FR or DL.

Quote from: FishMeisterSupreme on May 07, 2025, 12:31:36 PMFun.

ig wantonly beheading eta as samurai or enacting ""prima nocta"" rights before dying of syphilis or infection would be appealing to certain groups, yeah

Settings such as early Utah were so freakin' bonkers that you really could make it an RPG without trying. I think that's what Dogs In The Vineyard was about.

Quote from: Omega on May 07, 2025, 12:32:29 PMTSR did a whole series on playing D&D in historical settings. Not bad books really.

Given how difficult it is for AD&D to emulate any sort of game except, well, AD&D, those books were fantastic. The Charlemagne one is especially good in my opinion, and I particularly like the Greek heroes of legend book as well.

A lot of folks play RPGs because they want to experience being someplace else, such as a world with magic, Star Wars, or a cyberpunk future.  It's not surprising that someone interested in history would want to experience being there via a realistic historical game.

As for your laundry list of bad things in history, for the people there those were just life as usual.  They probably hardly perceived them, much less imagined that they could be different.  Just like today, where the world has all kinds of things wrong with it yet most of us manage to be happy anyway.  Also, all of those problems provide opportunities for adventures.  An RPG in a world without problems to overcome would be pretty boring.

Quote from: Omega on May 07, 2025, 12:32:29 PMIt CAN work. But it feels like some of the advocates come across as borderline elitist and that drives people away.

I don't think this is avoidable.  If you want to play such a game as faithfully as possible, then you need to find like-minded people who want to do the same.  Inevitably you'll have to turn away those who have some interest but aren't interested in putting in the necessary amount of effort to make it work.

Quote from: Mishihari on May 07, 2025, 02:52:25 PM

Quote from: Omega on May 07, 2025, 12:32:29 PMIt CAN work. But it feels like some of the advocates come across as borderline elitist and that drives people away.

I don't think this is avoidable.  If you want to play such a game as faithfully as possible, then you need to find like-minded people who want to do the same.  Inevitably you'll have to turn away those who have some interest but aren't interested in putting in the necessary amount of effort to make it work.

The opposite side is also true.  I don't play sci/fi games because I never find my preferred mix of science and space/opera to be a match for anyone else, and don't really want to run a game where half the players are unhappy with my lack of attention to the details that matter to them.

Quote from: Mishihari on May 07, 2025, 02:48:59 PMA lot of folks play RPGs because they want to experience being someplace else, such as a world with magic, Star Wars, or a cyberpunk future.  It's not surprising that someone interested in history would want to experience being there via a realistic historical game.

As for your laundry list of bad things in history, for the people there those were just life as usual.  They probably hardly perceived them, much less imagined that they could be different.  Just like today, where the world has all kinds of things wrong with it yet most of us manage to be happy anyway.  Also, all of those problems provide opportunities for adventures.  An RPG in a world without problems to overcome would be pretty boring.

As much as it sounds bad, a lot of bad things in history didn't get highlighted in their media counterparts simply because it was commonplace and nobody cared. Bob Hope was one of the first actors to act with a black man by his side in the highly influential Ghost Breakers film (which spawned the entire Scooby-Doo/Ghostbusters comedy/spooky subgenre). It is now considered highly offensive, yet it pioneered the way for Black people to become side actors and eventually main characters. Hope talks down to his partner as people did back then, but they work together to solve a mystery and it was progressive in retrospect. Most films just avoided having Black people altogether back then, so for an openly conservative actor (he breaks the fourth wall and compares the zombies in the film to the democrat party) it was a very large step for equality. In this light, I think it's wrong to NOT include slavery and such topics in modern gaming. Even Hasbro/D&D has that disclaimer about it being wrong to EDIT old games, it's wrong to just pretend that a franchise or timeline didn't have bad things happening. You're playing with the wrong people or group if they cannot work with that in an appropriate way.

A game about smuggling a slave out of the south through the underground railroad would be fuckin' fantastic and I don't care who it pissed off. I think I have a stealth game idea now.

Quote from: Slipshot762 on May 07, 2025, 12:52:52 PMi find a player usually pines verbally for such a setting or thematic when what they really are trying to communicate is that they do not wish to learn anything of a setting they are unfamiliar with, such as your own if custom or a published one like FR or DL.

It's probably more the other side of the same coin. They have invested a lot of time into learning about a particular period in history, and want a return of it in their elf game.

Pro: The players understand the setting (more or less) instantly.
Con: The players may know it better than the GM, and trying to keep things accurate can become a straight jacket. Players may decide things are problematic which forces changes from reality.

The RuneQuest world dabbles in Historical settings. The games are crunchier and it seems a better fit than shoehorning in D&D.