Jhkim, I just thought I'd add something to this:

If there are feminist people who buy and play games, there will be and should be feminist games for them to play. If there are anti-feminist people who buy and play games, there will be and should be anti-feminist games for them to play.

Speaking as a child of the 80s, 90s, (and today! ) I was there to see video games being much closer to a 50/50 split. Now most girls would not talk about video games among the boys because there was a general divergence of interests even then. However when the NES was out and Zelda, Rad Racer, or Super Mario 2 dropped -- and especially Tetris -- girls were just as likely to ask for tips and tricks as boys. And even then girls of a middle grade school age (4th grade+, roughly 10 years old+) were annoyed at some of the cloying crap pushed out by Barbie licensed games. If there were more games with "The Babysitter Club" as either a text adventure game with still images, or ideally a Choose Your Own Adventure book in digital format, there'd be more talk about girls publically playing video games of that time. The interests diverged, but it was not wholly stark as is assumed from those who were not there.

And now I fly away!
/glittery sparkles!

Quote from: Trond on May 09, 2025, 05:59:56 PMJhkim, I just thought I'd add something to this:

If there are feminist people who buy and play games, there will be and should be feminist games for them to play. If there are anti-feminist people who buy and play games, there will be and should be anti-feminist games for them to play.

Fair enough.

I do want my hobby to not be misunderstood - so I don't like false impressions of actual play happening. So I do emphasize and encourage stuff like convention reports and anecdotes of actual play as opposed to white room discussion and book-selling.

Quote from: migo on May 09, 2025, 05:08:12 PMWhile that's a nice sentiment, it's not realistic. It's hard to just enjoy playing games when you have activists who never cared about it muscling their way in and tearing everything up so it changes. To a certain point you can just check out and not buy new products, but it also extends to infiltrating game stores and affecting your experience at conventions and game sessions in the store.

I'm aware of the activists but my players are clueless regarding the greater world of tabletop games beyond what I tell them. I could be wrong but I think there is a big split between GMs and players that way.

Quote from: Urban Målare on May 09, 2025, 01:01:44 AMBasically, the dungeon is filled more with ramps than stairs and there are several elevators, powered by magic or rope mechanisms (it's not specified). That's pretty much it.

Is it not set in a pyramid-like structure? Those used alot of ramps anyhow. Its like someone claiming ancient Egypt was anti-abelist. Whatever the fuck the woke hallucinate "abelist" means today.

Quote from: jhkim on May 08, 2025, 02:03:54 PMThat post is a teaser of the upcoming adventure written by James Haeck, based on having listened to a panel including author Kretchmer. I agree that the teaser claims there are elevators, but the published adventure does not have elevators. Maybe an earlier draft of the adventure had elevators, or maybe Haeck misunderstood Kretchmer, or maybe this was an intentional lie for marketing purposes.

Regardless, this is exactly what I mean by distinguishing between media posts and published material. If we're talking about published material, it shouldn't be "Someone on the Internet said that the author said X in a panel discussion". That's going to result in a lot of errors.

This is true, but I want to point out that if someone says:

Quote from: the articleAs an ambulatory wheelchair user, Kretchmer says that is was important to her that her dungeon was a place that she could explore. As such, it's filled with fantasy elevators (whether they functioned by pulley or by magic, she didn't say), and ledges are accessible by ramps rather than by stairs. If you have a player in your gaming group who wants to play a wheelchair-using character, this is a great adventure to borrow dungeon design ideas from. After all, it is a fantasy world. If it's a player's fantasy to kick ass in a wheelchair, why not? And think about it—if we didn't mention that the dungeon was fully accessible here, would you have even noticed that there were ramps instead of stairs?

The fact that this is marketed with this kind of angle is notable, whether or not the magic elevators actually made it to print (the article is three months before the book came out, but the interview could have taken place long before that- long enough for the dungeon to be squished onto one page, flattened to avoid the need for elevators in general, or whatever).  While it's certainly incorrect to say that it came out this way, the fact that this was used as an angle to discuss it is certainly unusual and it wouldn't shock me if a critic took the interview for true instead of doing the work of digging up the module.  After all, this isn't like some critic made the claim, it's from the source directly.

Quote from: jhkimPundit's claim here is completely false regarding the published material. There are no wheelchairs of any sort within Candlekeep Mysteries, and the adventures are not wheelchair-accessible, including "The Canopic Being" since the entrance to that is down a ladder.

A vital part of being a good critic means accurately representing the material being critiqued.

Yea that is a strange claim for Pundit to make, especially because I don't think anyone had claimed those things officially or semi-officially.

Ultimately, the following things are true, and are the result of some manner of politics:
-This book was hyped with a claim about magical elevators and ramps, and the article definitely brings this to the forefront.
-Page 198 of the 5.5 PHB has a full page art with a combat wheelchair given central focus to the piece.  I feel the forced racial "diversity" is the bigger point, but that's an issue all throughout the book.

There's definitely some idea that including wheelchairs in art, in articles, or even as items is progressive and inclusive, and of course the implication then is that not including them is somehow regressive or represents some thoughtless lack or deliberate exclusion- not just of disabled people coming on your dragonslaying party, an exclusion pretty easy to justify, but of real people in real space.  Perfectly reasonable to push back on messaging that tries to put a demon-mask on anyone who doesn't immediately fall in line and start spouting slogans.

Quote from: jhkim on May 09, 2025, 05:32:00 PMIt is realistic in that I greatly enjoy RPGs. I've been playing with friends and at conventions for years.

Do I sometimes run into GMs or players I don't like? Sure. There are plenty of obnoxiously political people one encounters in general, at the gaming table as well as other places.

But focusing on my own enjoyment (as opposed to furthering any political causes) has made my gaming more enjoyable for me.

I think it's worth acknowledging that if your politics align with the people who are muscling into the hobby and trying to "deconstruct" it for political reasons, that you'll be less bothered by them than if your politics are opposed to them.

Quote from: migo on May 10, 2025, 02:02:12 PMI think it's worth acknowledging that if your politics align with the people who are muscling into the hobby and trying to "deconstruct" it for political reasons, that you'll be less bothered by them than if your politics are opposed to them.

I do think this is an important point, and I'll extend it to the vast majority of people who hear someone yakking about inclusion this or that, and they just keep their head down and walk past.  They might agree with the concept, or they might not, but they certainly wouldn't ever have it in their life- if it's TTRPG related, they wouldn't ever have it at their table.

But it's reasonable to push back against a claim that fundamentally asserts that the claimant has an unassailable moral position, and all those who do not at least intone the Holy Words are moral inferiors. It's a worthwhile effort to push back at such claims; they are selfish and evil.

Quote from: Omega on May 10, 2025, 12:52:33 AM

Quote from: Urban Målare on May 09, 2025, 01:01:44 AMBasically, the dungeon is filled more with ramps than stairs and there are several elevators, powered by magic or rope mechanisms (it's not specified). That's pretty much it.

Is it not set in a pyramid-like structure? Those used alot of ramps anyhow. Its like someone claiming ancient Egypt was anti-abelist. Whatever the fuck the woke hallucinate "abelist" means today.

My first thought when it was happening was "how's this different than a Yuan-ti temple city?".