TheRPGSite

Around 10 to 14 years ago there was 'organized play' of D&D games on Wednesdays.

I was working the evening or closing shift at the game store and some guys came in early and the first thing they started doing was arguing about the Presidential candidates that year.

It was annoying.

 I actually walked over to their table and said "Guys you are here to play Dungeons & Dragons not yammer on about politicians in 21st century America. Those two people will not affect how the game session goes tonight - so give it a rest - Alright!?"

For those who don't remember " TFTG" is my acrobym for "Tales From The Gamestore".

- Ed C.

My regular group doesn't talk politics at game sessions. WE get together to have a good time and leave the troubles of the real world behind for a little while. It is relaxing to be able to escape for a while which is why I don't use woke bullshit gaming products.

It not only a matter of respecting other people's opinions and beliefs, but to refer to the OP: why bring up either politics (or religion for that matter) at the gaming table? It has no bearing on the game.

The group I've been with now has been together for 22 years (The Burning River Sell-swords). It has changed over time. People come and go for one reason or another. We've either have or had people that that are left or right of the political spectrum, believers and non-believers.

We've always held the love of the hobby is what keeps us coming together. The bonds of friendship we've created at the table. We've come to each other's aid in need of help. We've celebrated our triumphs in life, and shared our grief. We've watched our group grow. We've brought our children in and they have grown up within our group, now to the point they have kids as well.

Now some of us are grandparents (myself included). We're looking at the downhill part of our lives going into retirement. I can say that I'm lucky to go into my autumn years with the Burning River Sell-swords. You couldn't ask for a better group of friends. The fact that in about ten years, I can retire and look forward to gaming with my friends until I shuffle off this mortal coil gives me comfort.

Wouldn't it be a shame if we ended it all over an election?

I agree.  I don't allow the discussion of politics at my game table.   Has nothing to do with the game.

You have all the days and nights when we aren't gaming to discuss this.   Do it then.

There's a single ideology that preaches "everything is political" and thereby are justified bringing up politics and politically hot subjects.  If that ruins your fun, it's your fault for not being "on the right side of history."

Honestly, I'm kind of over "no politics at the table" and I am now more "I want to stomp your guts out for using your politics to ruin the game."

Quote from: BadApple on November 27, 2024, 09:29:21 AMThere's a single ideology that preaches "everything is political" and thereby are justified bringing up politics and politically hot subjects.  If that ruins your fun, it's your fault for not being "on the right side of history."

Only grifters like Anita Sarkeesian believe and spread that bullshit.

She and her ilk are stupid twats.

Quote from: blackstone on November 27, 2024, 09:36:05 AM

Quote from: BadApple on November 27, 2024, 09:29:21 AMThere's a single ideology that preaches "everything is political" and thereby are justified bringing up politics and politically hot subjects.  If that ruins your fun, it's your fault for not being "on the right side of history."

Only grifters like Anita Sarkeesian believe and spread that bullshit.

She and her ilk are stupid twats.

Sadly, roughly 40% of the population of the Puget Sound area are these types of grifters.  This is a big reason why I am now a political refugee from Washington taking refuge in Florida.

Politics are downstream from philosophy, morality, ethics, even religion. Politics are the dirty nitty gritty policy decisions and balance budgeting and handshaking and compromise that all platonic ideals upstream get blended through before their imperfect implementations grace us.

RPGs are a bit upstream from politics metaphorically, the best games I've run touched on myth and archetypes.

philosophical wanking aside, my policy is with friends it's okay as an after or before game decision because I can trust my friends to be civil. for strangers or just acquaintance I have a flat no politics rule at my table.

Honestly? My saturday GM is Republican. We don't talk much about politics at all. but what little we do talk about, We are both equally perplexed by. So it's sort of a strange harmony.

Quote from: blackstone on November 27, 2024, 09:36:05 AMOnly grifters like Anita Sarkeesian believe and spread that bullshit.

She and her ilk are stupid twats.

 Is she even relevant anymore?  Seems like people caught on to her and she had to scale back because she wasn't getting alot of attention anymore.

Quote from: GhostNinja on November 27, 2024, 08:38:19 PM

Quote from: blackstone on November 27, 2024, 09:36:05 AMOnly grifters like Anita Sarkeesian believe and spread that bullshit.

She and her ilk are stupid twats.

 Is she even relevant anymore?  Seems like people caught on to her and she had to scale back because she wasn't getting alot of attention anymore.

She backed off from media activism for a few years. She recently announced her return. The reaction has been mostly "Meh, her again?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/kotakuinaction2/comments/1fkja31/feminist_anita_sarkeesian_is_back_to_game/

Quote from: Koltar on November 26, 2024, 09:07:51 PMAround 10 to 14 years ago there was 'organized play' of D&D games on Wednesdays.

I was working the evening or closing shift at the game store and some guys came in early and the first thing they started doing was arguing about the Presidential candidates that year.

It was annoying.

 I actually walked over to their table and said "Guys you are here to play Dungeons & Dragons not yammer on about politicians in 21st century America. Those two people will not affect how the game session goes tonight - so give it a rest - Alright!?"

For those who don't remember " TFTG" is my acrobym for "Tales From The Gamestore".

- Ed C.

Tell it to the woke, they're the ones usually shoehorning politics into everything.

I have a transgender player in my online game now. They treat me respectfully, I treat them respectfully. I'm not going to start giving my views on trans issues when they are just there to game and have a good time.

I had a group of left wing players a couple years ago. Everything was fine for a good while, but they eventually formed a cabal and started disrespecting the game, me and the other players. Obviously at that point the game couldn't continue.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 27, 2024, 10:36:48 PMShe backed off from media activism for a few years. She recently announced her return. The reaction has been mostly "Meh, her again?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/kotakuinaction2/comments/1fkja31/feminist_anita_sarkeesian_is_back_to_game/

Yeah, she is a grifter.  Hopefully she will fall on her face and I hope all of the youtubers will point out her past and all the crap she does and causes her to disappear again.

I think this sort of thing varies from group to group. I used to have a weekly game with friends I went to high school with and we often talked and debated politics, but it never got ugly and usually happened after the game (and there were always a range of views present). I think that is harder to do with people you know less well or who aren't similarly aged peers. Most groups I am in politics are hardly mentioned. If and when they are I try to keep everything as friendly as possible.

Quote from: blackstone on November 27, 2024, 08:21:29 AMIt not only a matter of respecting other people's opinions and beliefs, but to refer to the OP: why bring up either politics (or religion for that matter) at the gaming table? It has no bearing on the game.

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on November 28, 2024, 10:18:27 AMI think this sort of thing varies from group to group. I used to have a weekly game with friends I went to high school with and we often talked and debated politics, but it never got ugly and usually happened after the game (and there were always a range of views present). I think that is harder to do with people you know less well or who aren't similarly aged peers. Most groups I am in politics are hardly mentioned. If and when they are I try to keep everything as friendly as possible.

Like Brendan, I tend to play with friendly groups where we are casual. We'll typically chat about various topics during breaks in play, or as we're waiting for people to arrive.

So for us, it's normal to sometimes talk about non-gaming stuff like each other's lives, stuff we've heard or things that are important to us - job, friends, family, news, etc. For example, one of my friends in my current gaming group is an architect and I've been interested in her opinions on housing policy and its effect on development. It would feel weird to zero chit-chat for five hours and then leave.

Other groups are different, I know. In different groups over the years, I've seen varying amounts of out-of-game chit-chat. But zero chit-chat has seemed like an extreme.

Greetings!

Interesting. My groups discuss politics all the time. Religion is often discussed as well.

Having such discussions has never been a problem.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I just ban it during games. I am conservative and basically everyone else in my regular gaming groups are college educated liberals. You can guess how they reacted to the US elections and how they would respond to even a little criticism of liberal policies.

Quote from: SHARK on November 28, 2024, 05:31:02 PMGreetings!

Interesting. My groups discuss politics all the time. Religion is often discussed as well.

Having such discussions has never been a problem.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The game session mentioned in the opening post was in a public space - the back area of a game store open to the public.
Really Did not need the headache of a politics argument right then. Just needed gamers who looked like they were having fun.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar on November 28, 2024, 09:19:32 PMThe game session mentioned in the opening post was in a public space - the back area of a game store open to the public.
Really Did not need the headache of a politics argument right then. Just needed gamers who looked like they were having fun.

- Ed C.

So you really don't care if people discuss politics at the game table as long as it doesn't happen in your store and could possibly make it or you look bad.

I can understand that, but it doesn't mesh with your thread title very well.

:D I found the most mature method in America of discussing religion and politics in public areas for playing games was tearful accusations and hyperbolic catastrophizing. Wait no... :( Is that right? I think I got lost with too many noun phrases in the above sentence. ;) Did I do a double negative, or a double entendre? I'm getting lost in my dotage. :)

Anyway, the point is... you don't do it again! >:( Or with less volume, whiskey, and tears. ;) Something like that. Hope that helps. :)

I always kept politics out of my games.  I don't want to know unless you are my friend outside of this game and then I only want to know at the coffee shop and not at the game table.

Quote from: Emerikol on December 03, 2024, 11:39:35 AMI always kept politics out of my games.  I don't want to know unless you are my friend outside of this game and then I only want to know at the coffee shop and not at the game table.

Yeah and lets be honest, people's political leanings or thoughts has nothing to do with the game being played.  I always keep politics out of my games and I stop political talk before it starts.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 27, 2024, 10:36:48 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on November 27, 2024, 08:38:19 PM

Quote from: blackstone on November 27, 2024, 09:36:05 AMOnly grifters like Anita Sarkeesian believe and spread that bullshit.

She and her ilk are stupid twats.

Last I heard she married herself in a ceremony (not kidding).
 Is she even relevant anymore?  Seems like people caught on to her and she had to scale back because she wasn't getting alot of attention anymore.

She backed off from media activism for a few years. She recently announced her return. The reaction has been mostly "Meh, her again?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/kotakuinaction2/comments/1fkja31/feminist_anita_sarkeesian_is_back_to_game/

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 27, 2024, 10:36:48 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on November 27, 2024, 08:38:19 PM

Quote from: blackstone on November 27, 2024, 09:36:05 AMOnly grifters like Anita Sarkeesian believe and spread that bullshit.

She and her ilk are stupid twats.

 Is she even relevant anymore?  Seems like people caught on to her and she had to scale back because she wasn't getting alot of attention anymore.

She backed off from media activism for a few years. She recently announced her return. The reaction has been mostly "Meh, her again?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/kotakuinaction2/comments/1fkja31/feminist_anita_sarkeesian_is_back_to_game/

Last I read, she married herself in a ceremony, white dress and all.  I hope her and her right index finger are very happy together.

Such a waste, she was a solid 4-5, she could have found a man to take care of her and raise children, but she choose the crazy cat lady path.  Can't wait to hear her rants when she's in her 60's, gray hair, shawl and covered in cat hair.

Quote from: GhostNinja on November 27, 2024, 08:38:19 PMIs she even relevant anymore?

Anita is not important anymore, no.  But there have been shitbirds doing 'the personal is political' for quite some time now, and while this a (possibly top-down) rollback of this compared to 2020, this rollback wasn't fought for or pushed back against by society- it wasn't a grassroots thing.  And as such, we'll see these types of division things again, and simply put, your table has to not tolerate people who simply MUST have their non-democratic way.  If your table is a bunch of politically activated social activists and you, you're not gonna have a good time.  If you have one or two people with extreme lefty politics that can be fine as long as they don't push their politics at the table too much, or engage in the "your politics is evil, my politics ISN'T EVEN POLITICS, it's called BEING A GOOD PERSON" monkeybrained bullshit.

Quote from: Venka on December 03, 2024, 03:22:42 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on November 27, 2024, 08:38:19 PMIs she even relevant anymore?

Anita is not important anymore, no.  But there have been shitbirds doing 'the personal is political' for quite some time now, and while this a (possibly top-down) rollback of this compared to 2020, this rollback wasn't fought for or pushed back against by society- it wasn't a grassroots thing.  And as such, we'll see these types of division things again, and simply put, your table has to not tolerate people who simply MUST have their non-democratic way.  If your table is a bunch of politically activated social activists and you, you're not gonna have a good time.  If you have one or two people with extreme lefty politics that can be fine as long as they don't push their politics at the table too much, or engage in the "your politics is evil, my politics ISN'T EVEN POLITICS, it's called BEING A GOOD PERSON" monkeybrained bullshit.

This. When we've had a table of just friends, we've occasionally had politics discussions before or after the game--or even more rarely during a break.  Same as we've had all kinds of other non-gaming discussions during those times.  That's because I'm not "friends" with people who can't separate the personal from the political.  Even amongst those friends, though, we don't want to talk politics a lot (or religion or sex or any of the other topics that get people riled up).  Gaming time isn't a time to be riled up about real life.  By the same token, I really don't want to talk roof repair, or raking leaves, or any of the other stuff that I should be doing right now instead of gaming. ;)

When the person is political, then the politics is always personal. I can only game with that mentality when the person still has enough of a surviving filter to understand that game time is not the time to get "personal".  If the content of the pretend elves thing is itself "personal" to said person, then they aren't well-adjusted enough to be playing an RPG at all.  I'm certainly not going to enable them in that pursuit.

For me, it's less the politics and more the mindset that makes people think it's appropriate to constantly derail the game by bringing up real world politics.  People with this mindset are just tedious and self-absorbed people who don't know how to act in a social situation.  Since playing a ttrpg is inherently a social situation, this is a problem.  I just don't want to deal with these tedious, juvenile narcissists who have to make everything they do about whatever their pet issues are.   

Does it matter if the game includes politics as part of the setting as something the PCs can meaningfully interact with? For example, the Battletech setting might feature mercenary PCs that have to consider the politics of the setting--and which can parallel real life politics to varying degrees. Another example is the Star Wars setting where "Young Senatorial" (or something like it) has been a heroic archetype since the beginning. Either of these can certainly invite in-character political discussions that would never come up in a game about dungeon crawling.

In my games it doesn't come up often but it does come up.  There's always some side chatter.  I've never had an actual problem with it because I play with friends and for-real adults who have the maturity to be able to get along with others even when they disagree on some things.

Quote from: Koltar on November 28, 2024, 09:19:32 PM

Quote from: SHARK on November 28, 2024, 05:31:02 PMGreetings!

Interesting. My groups discuss politics all the time. Religion is often discussed as well.

Having such discussions has never been a problem.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The game session mentioned in the opening post was in a public space - the back area of a game store open to the public.
Really Did not need the headache of a politics argument right then. Just needed gamers who looked like they were having fun.

- Ed C.

Greetings!

Right, Koltar. I agree. Some subjects are not appropriate in that kind of public setting, especially so with strangers and in your case, customers.

Most of the time, I am playing with groups of friends who happen to be gamers that I have known now at least for several years. We actually eat food together, hang out, participate in different activities together, so talking about politics, religion, or anything, really, is never a problem. It is just normal conversation amongst friends.

I do agree also, I stipulate, that when I get together with a game group--of acquaintances, mixed with random strangers at my local game store, I always avoid politics and religion as topics.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

We don't talk about current politics in my gaming groups. However, similar situations can arise in games with historical settings. Examples include Call of Cthulhu in the 1920s and a game I'm in that's set in the U.S. during the Civil War. I always play non-Americans in such games and adopt the outlook of my character's culture, because I want to be steeped as much as possible in the historical time period in question. Needless to say, the political/social viewpoints are then often quite different from 21st century America. Even a liberal from the 1920s would be quite different from a liberal today. This is something that Chaosium gets completely wrong nowadays. 

I find a lot of responses here surprising. Most of my gaming is done in public at game stores, conventions, or bars. I have no problem with discussing politics at the game table because as GM I make sure that my Players are adults who can read the room and understand when some subjects are appropriate or not to talk about. If I get a Player who either doesn't get the hint or just insists on being a jackass, if they don't straighten up after talking to them, I just eject them from the game. Don't most of you do the same?

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 04, 2024, 04:13:45 AMI find a lot of responses here surprising. Most of my gaming is done in public at game stores, conventions, or bars. I have no problem with discussing politics at the game table because as GM I make sure that my Players are adults who can read the room and understand when some subjects are appropriate or not to talk about. If I get a Player who either doesn't get the hint or just insists on being a jackass, if they don't straighten up after talking to them, I just eject them from the game. Don't most of you do the same?

I make a distinction between a person who is willfully obtuse or even a jackass when it comes to reading the room, versus some who try but are simply not very good at it. I often have the latter in my games. Over the years, I've gotten pretty darn good at sussing out the difference, too. So it is better for us to allow some discussion outside of the game itself, but keep it limited. The nice ones get a little practice they need, but it doesn't get out of control.

Mainly, though, it's just about not derailing the game. There's enough ways to derail it with people talking about work, family, and other perfectly acceptable topics without introducing anything more contentious. 

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 04, 2024, 04:13:45 AMI find a lot of responses here surprising. Most of my gaming is done in public at game stores, conventions, or bars. I have no problem with discussing politics at the game table because as GM I make sure that my Players are adults who can read the room and understand when some subjects are appropriate or not to talk about. If I get a Player who either doesn't get the hint or just insists on being a jackass, if they don't straighten up after talking to them, I just eject them from the game. Don't most of you do the same?

No I don't impose my politics on strangers, or say what is ok politics & what is not.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on December 03, 2024, 02:09:56 PMLast I read, she married herself in a ceremony, white dress and all.  I hope her and her right index finger are very happy together.

Such a waste, she was a solid 4-5, she could have found a man to take care of her and raise children, but she choose the crazy cat lady path.  Can't wait to hear her rants when she's in her 60's, gray hair, shawl and covered in cat hair.

Apparently, it was just a wedding themed birthday.  She didnt get married.  Yeah, she is a solid 4-5, maybe even a 6 but her behavior really is a turn off.

Quote from: Venka on December 03, 2024, 03:22:42 PMAnita is not important anymore, no.  But there have been shitbirds doing 'the personal is political' for quite some time now, and while this a (possibly top-down) rollback of this compared to 2020, this rollback wasn't fought for or pushed back against by society- it wasn't a grassroots thing.  And as such, we'll see these types of division things again, and simply put, your table has to not tolerate people who simply MUST have their non-democratic way.  If your table is a bunch of politically activated social activists and you, you're not gonna have a good time.  If you have one or two people with extreme lefty politics that can be fine as long as they don't push their politics at the table too much, or engage in the "your politics is evil, my politics ISN'T EVEN POLITICS, it's called BEING A GOOD PERSON" monkeybrained bullshit.

I don't know the various politics of the players in my groups (except one person) and I find that if you cut politics off before they even start it's just better for the game and the group.   

They are free to talk about politics outside of the game?  Sure, feel free.  I hate discussing politics and I refuse to discuss it in and out of gaming.   I think there are a few people that would be considered liberal in my group and they are fun to game with.

I think the only time politics belong at the game table is if the politics have to do with what is going on in the game (Such as how a king rules his domain, etc).   Real life politics doesn't belong and I will never allow it at my table.  If I am playing a game and politics become too much, I leave.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 03, 2024, 11:57:27 PMDoes it matter if the game includes politics as part of the setting as something the PCs can meaningfully interact with? For example, the Battletech setting might feature mercenary PCs that have to consider the politics of the setting--and which can parallel real life politics to varying degrees. Another example is the Star Wars setting where "Young Senatorial" (or something like it) has been a heroic archetype since the beginning. Either of these can certainly invite in-character political discussions that would never come up in a game about dungeon crawling.

If it's politics related to the game, like your example Battletech or how a King rules his kingdom (game based politics) then it's fine.   I am talking about real life politics which I feel doesn't belong at the game table.

Quote from: GhostNinja on December 04, 2024, 09:02:25 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 03, 2024, 11:57:27 PMDoes it matter if the game includes politics as part of the setting as something the PCs can meaningfully interact with? For example, the Battletech setting might feature mercenary PCs that have to consider the politics of the setting--and which can parallel real life politics to varying degrees. Another example is the Star Wars setting where "Young Senatorial" (or something like it) has been a heroic archetype since the beginning. Either of these can certainly invite in-character political discussions that would never come up in a game about dungeon crawling.

If it's politics related to the game, like your example Battletech or how a King rules his kingdom (game based politics) then it's fine.   I am talking about real life politics which I feel doesn't belong at the game table.

It can be a tough balance to find if in-game issues closely parallel real life though (even if the names of factions and leaders differ). For example, in Battletech, situations like the Russian invasion of Ukraine might happen every-other Tuesday.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2024, 10:44:11 AMIt can be a tough balance to find if in-game issues closely parallel real life though (even if the names of factions and leaders differ). For example, in Battletech, situations like the Russian invasion of Ukraine might happen every-other Tuesday.

I guess I am lucky.  People at my games (both playing and running) don't talk about politics and the in-game politics don't cause problems. 

Quote from: jhkim on November 28, 2024, 04:03:27 PM

Quote from: blackstone on November 27, 2024, 08:21:29 AMIt not only a matter of respecting other people's opinions and beliefs, but to refer to the OP: why bring up either politics (or religion for that matter) at the gaming table? It has no bearing on the game.

Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on November 28, 2024, 10:18:27 AMI think this sort of thing varies from group to group. I used to have a weekly game with friends I went to high school with and we often talked and debated politics, but it never got ugly and usually happened after the game (and there were always a range of views present). I think that is harder to do with people you know less well or who aren't similarly aged peers. Most groups I am in politics are hardly mentioned. If and when they are I try to keep everything as friendly as possible.

Like Brendan, I tend to play with friendly groups where we are casual. We'll typically chat about various topics during breaks in play, or as we're waiting for people to arrive.

So for us, it's normal to sometimes talk about non-gaming stuff like each other's lives, stuff we've heard or things that are important to us - job, friends, family, news, etc. For example, one of my friends in my current gaming group is an architect and I've been interested in her opinions on housing policy and its effect on development. It would feel weird to zero chit-chat for five hours and then leave.

Other groups are different, I know. In different groups over the years, I've seen varying amounts of out-of-game chit-chat. But zero chit-chat has seemed like an extreme.

I think you missed the point. We're not talking about idle banter around the table. It's about taking political beliefs and injecting into the game itself or taking a political discussion to the point to where it disrupts the game.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2024, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: GhostNinja on December 04, 2024, 09:02:25 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 03, 2024, 11:57:27 PMDoes it matter if the game includes politics as part of the setting as something the PCs can meaningfully interact with? For example, the Battletech setting might feature mercenary PCs that have to consider the politics of the setting--and which can parallel real life politics to varying degrees. Another example is the Star Wars setting where "Young Senatorial" (or something like it) has been a heroic archetype since the beginning. Either of these can certainly invite in-character political discussions that would never come up in a game about dungeon crawling.

If it's politics related to the game, like your example Battletech or how a King rules his kingdom (game based politics) then it's fine.  I am talking about real life politics which I feel doesn't belong at the game table.

It can be a tough balance to find if in-game issues closely parallel real life though (even if the names of factions and leaders differ). For example, in Battletech, situations like the Russian invasion of Ukraine might happen every-other Tuesday.

Except the invasion of a planet controlled by neo-feudal warriors by other neo-feudal warriors has exactly nothing to do with Russia invading Ukraine.  There's a difference between the motivations of the NPCs in a game (which should reflect the internal politics of the setting) and references to real-world politics (i.e. there's no circumstance where "inclusive" pronouns and trans-anything would fit the internal logic of the Battletech setting... unless you are talking about mech trans-missions).  House Kurita isn't going to respect your gender identity.

You know this.  Either you are purposely conflating extra-setting modern politics and the motivations of NPCs in setting, or you are so dense you could dethrone neutronium as the densest substance in the universe...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 04, 2024, 08:04:44 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2024, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: GhostNinja on December 04, 2024, 09:02:25 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 03, 2024, 11:57:27 PMDoes it matter if the game includes politics as part of the setting as something the PCs can meaningfully interact with? For example, the Battletech setting might feature mercenary PCs that have to consider the politics of the setting--and which can parallel real life politics to varying degrees. Another example is the Star Wars setting where "Young Senatorial" (or something like it) has been a heroic archetype since the beginning. Either of these can certainly invite in-character political discussions that would never come up in a game about dungeon crawling.

If it's politics related to the game, like your example Battletech or how a King rules his kingdom (game based politics) then it's fine.  I am talking about real life politics which I feel doesn't belong at the game table.

It can be a tough balance to find if in-game issues closely parallel real life though (even if the names of factions and leaders differ). For example, in Battletech, situations like the Russian invasion of Ukraine might happen every-other Tuesday.

Except the invasion of a planet controlled by neo-feudal warriors by other neo-feudal warriors has exactly nothing to do with Russia invading Ukraine.  There's a difference between the motivations of the NPCs in a game (which should reflect the internal politics of the setting) and references to real-world politics (i.e. there's no circumstance where "inclusive" pronouns and trans-anything would fit the internal logic of the Battletech setting... unless you are talking about mech trans-missions).  House Kurita isn't going to respect your gender identity.

You know this.  Either you are purposely conflating extra-setting modern politics and the motivations of NPCs in setting, or you are so dense you could dethrone neutronium as the densest substance in the universe...

I'm talking about the casual acceptance of wars of aggression in (for example) the Battletech universe and how it can reflect back on views of territorial disputes IRL. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is simply the current IRL example, and the neo-feudalism of Battletech doesn't really impact that all too much except that it shows both the positive and negative impacts of non-democratic societies (which, in the Battletech universe are almost all of them).

Your pronouns & gender identity strawman is totally not what I'm talking about and you know it.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on December 03, 2024, 02:09:56 PMSuch a waste, she was a solid 4-5,

Not even close. Sarkesian is the posterchild for Charisma stat. Looks good, but blows it with her smugness, amirking and overall wretched personality. No sane man would touch her.

Quote from: Omega on December 04, 2024, 11:11:16 PMNo sane man would touch her.

All men suffer from temporary insanity from time to time, often with alcohol in the mix.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2024, 10:42:10 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 04, 2024, 08:04:44 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 04, 2024, 10:44:11 AM

Quote from: GhostNinja on December 04, 2024, 09:02:25 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 03, 2024, 11:57:27 PMDoes it matter if the game includes politics as part of the setting as something the PCs can meaningfully interact with? For example, the Battletech setting might feature mercenary PCs that have to consider the politics of the setting--and which can parallel real life politics to varying degrees. Another example is the Star Wars setting where "Young Senatorial" (or something like it) has been a heroic archetype since the beginning. Either of these can certainly invite in-character political discussions that would never come up in a game about dungeon crawling.

If it's politics related to the game, like your example Battletech or how a King rules his kingdom (game based politics) then it's fine.  I am talking about real life politics which I feel doesn't belong at the game table.

It can be a tough balance to find if in-game issues closely parallel real life though (even if the names of factions and leaders differ). For example, in Battletech, situations like the Russian invasion of Ukraine might happen every-other Tuesday.

Except the invasion of a planet controlled by neo-feudal warriors by other neo-feudal warriors has exactly nothing to do with Russia invading Ukraine.  There's a difference between the motivations of the NPCs in a game (which should reflect the internal politics of the setting) and references to real-world politics (i.e. there's no circumstance where "inclusive" pronouns and trans-anything would fit the internal logic of the Battletech setting... unless you are talking about mech trans-missions).  House Kurita isn't going to respect your gender identity.

You know this.  Either you are purposely conflating extra-setting modern politics and the motivations of NPCs in setting, or you are so dense you could dethrone neutronium as the densest substance in the universe...

I'm talking about the casual acceptance of wars of aggression in (for example) the Battletech universe and how it can reflect back on views of territorial disputes IRL. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is simply the current IRL example, and the neo-feudalism of Battletech doesn't really impact that all too much except that it shows both the positive and negative impacts of non-democratic societies (which, in the Battletech universe are almost all of them).

Your pronouns & gender identity strawman is totally not what I'm talking about and you know it.

Non sequitur.  How does "casual acceptance of wars of aggression" equal modern politics?  It could just as likely reflect history (where such wars and acceptance were both more prevalent).  No one reads a fantasy story about war and suddenly says, "Wait, this is invoking the Russia-Ukraine war!"  Just like I said, you are attempting to conflate in-setting motivation with promoting current day political concerns.  The fact you (pretend) to not know the difference is telling.  How about you give an example of modern politics reflected in a game in an immersive way, since that is what the topic of this thread asserts is the problem?

I want to see your example of modern politics that is on the line of acceptable and make it a "tough balance."  If House Kurita invades a Davion world, no one other than the terminally woke would respond at the table with, "Man, we need to consider the Russia-Ukraine war in the context of this game."  There's no tough balance needed.  You are asserting a problem that doesn't seem to exist.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 05, 2024, 12:36:23 AMI want to see your example of modern politics that is on the line of acceptable and make it a "tough balance."  If House Kurita invades a Davion world, no one other than the terminally woke would respond at the table with, "Man, we need to consider the Russia-Ukraine war in the context of this game."  There's no tough balance needed.  You are asserting a problem that doesn't seem to exist.

Consider the troubles experienced by the Republic of the Sphere in the 3130s. All of the Houses had ceded worlds to the nation's formation in the 3080s (except Cap Con, but many of those were captured too). Fifty-some years later, several of those houses back seperatist "splinter factions" with the intent of pulling back worlds that were formerly in their power. The most direct example is the Stormhammers, a Steiner-backed faction that was very much engaged in a hybrid warfare model of "soft takeover" of Republic territory much like Russian did with Crimea in 2014. At the same time, we have the Cap Com trying to reclaim territory from the Republic that has been "historically Capellan" and the Fed Suns throws in to prevent this, although this ends up with the Fed Suns getting their asses kicked (the Cap Con of the 3130s is not the weak state it was a century earlier). Meanwhile, a Fed Suns seperatist group, the Swordsworn, are fighting for the Republic...sort of...but really for Fed Suns recognition.

Anyway, there's a lot more I could type if you really want to have a conversation about it.

I think that Eirikrautha has a good point here. Let me expand upon mine some more so that we have better clarity.

Earlier I said that I do a lot of gaming in public places. What I neglected to say is that I always ask what the rules are for playing in that space. It is not my playground, so the owner has jurisdiction over the space and I will play by their rules or not use the venue. My personal limits as GM are no graphic sexual content and no graphic violence in game. I've had venues before include things like no bigotry or racism and I have to have a conversation about what if the bigotry/racism is against an alien race or robots, sometimes with interesting answers which led me to finding another venue. Regardless, if I am using their space, I go by their rules.

However, beyond common sense issues (like no pedophilia discussion or furry fetishes delving), if the owner of the space never tells us that we can't discuss something (like politics) at the table, then that owner has a tough time chastising us for violating a rule that was never stated.

In the OPs post, if Koltar had never told that player group that discussion of Real World politics was not allowed beforehand, then are they really in the wrong when they do discuss politics?

Also, in regards to the Battletech history being conflated with the Real World, it is obfuscation. However, I've used Real World historical events with a veneer of science fiction in my own games. The events are the same, but names are changed and locations moved around.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 05, 2024, 01:44:46 AMIn the OPs post, if Koltar had never told that player group that discussion of Real World politics was not allowed beforehand, then are they really in the wrong when they do discuss politics?

No, they only become wrong once they are told No Politics, and keep talking.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 05, 2024, 12:36:23 AMI want to see your example of modern politics that is on the line of acceptable and make it a "tough balance."  If House Kurita invades a Davion world, no one other than the terminally woke would respond at the table with, "Man, we need to consider the Russia-Ukraine war in the context of this game."  There's no tough balance needed.  You are asserting a problem that doesn't seem to exist.

This is someone who really wants to tell everyone their opinion about the Russia-Ukraine war and is grabbing on to any excuse they can to do that.  People like this make every damn thing about whatever their pet issue of the moment is.  They will always have some excuse for doing it.  The only solution is to just ban discussion of real-world politics entirely.  Otherwise, people will come up with whatever flimsy pretense they to keep doing it.

Quote from: yosemitemike on December 05, 2024, 04:17:48 AM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on December 05, 2024, 12:36:23 AMI want to see your example of modern politics that is on the line of acceptable and make it a "tough balance."  If House Kurita invades a Davion world, no one other than the terminally woke would respond at the table with, "Man, we need to consider the Russia-Ukraine war in the context of this game."  There's no tough balance needed.  You are asserting a problem that doesn't seem to exist.

This is someone who really wants to tell everyone their opinion about the Russia-Ukraine war and is grabbing on to any excuse they can to do that.  People like this make every damn thing about whatever their pet issue of the moment is.  They will always have some excuse for doing it.  The only solution is to just ban discussion of real-world politics entirely.  Otherwise, people will come up with whatever flimsy pretense they to keep doing it.

Yes, which is exactly back to a person who cannot navigate social cues or is an asshole pretending they can't.  Now, sometimes that is a distinction without a difference, and sometimes it isn't.  Which is why we tend to give people a certain amount of slack until they provide enough evidence that they fall heavily on the asshole pretense side of the equation.

See also some of the people who habitually troll their pet ideas on this very forum for a not unrelated phenomenon.

At the gaming table, where I can observe body language and other social cues missing here, it is an easier distinction to make. There comes a point with some people where you've judged that while they are not a deliberate asshole, their behavior will seem that way to others missing those cues.  For their own protection, it is then a good idea to limit topics of discussion.  Because the other option is they get booted.

I wanted to say that I obey the rules of the public-sphere when I run in public. But the truth is I don't. I used to run a LOT at cons in Los Angeles. But even then I'd run those tournaments in a suites as a feature for Convention owners, so it was pretty private. I never allow non-players to "watch". I still don't even in my private games. My content was solely mine unless I was running something for the RPGA. And it would be usually be 80's fantasy violence soft-R rated.

Politics are never an issue for me since if you're there to talk about politics in the modern-sense where it has nothing to do with our game, I'll tell you to get the fuck out because I want people at my table that want to game. Politics is its own hobby, and you can't be doing your hobby in my hobby. Go do your hobby elsewhere.

Today I play with adults that want to play adult games. The problem with younger people whose lives have been propagandized into oblivion is that politics is now an inherent part of their identity, and frankly unless I really like you, I don't care enough to deprogram you. I especially won't spend my game-time doing it at my table. It's easier for me to just screen people before they join my group.

Its refreshing to see that almost everyone agrees we are here to play the game & not get into politics/religion.

Lets continue doing that!

Quote from: Riquez on December 05, 2024, 03:47:37 PMIts refreshing to see that almost everyone agrees we are here to play the game & not get into politics/religion.

Lets continue doing that!

amen on that. Welcome to Mos Eisley. Leave your "droids" outside.