TheRPGSite

I decided to start a new thread so I wouldn't derail the "Something afoot at Ice" thread.

I have heard about RoleMaster and at one point I even saw a box set of the books (along time ago).

One thing I heard alot about the game was that the rules are difficult which sort of drew me away from it (I was at one point interested in RoleMaster).

I would like to hear from someone with experience with Rolemaster experience about the game.

Some of my fondest gaming memories involve MERP (a simplified version of Rolemaster 2e) and Rolemaster 2e (most often combining the two games into a MERP-RM hybrid), although I haven't played either in a decade.

MERP and RM have a largely undeserved reputation for complexity.  RM 2e actually is less complex than D&D 3e (IME).  The claim that RM is 'complex' rests on the assumption that a game with many tables must be complex.  (I have to concede, though, that RM2e and MERP are not especially well organized.)

But RM does involve the use of charts, so if that turns you off, RM will not be for you.  But the charts (IMO) are what give RM its charm: its colourful critical (and fumble) results.

Okay but remember, you asked for it.

Rolemaster 1/2/C is a class and level game with a skill system and critical tables.  The core mechanic is roll d100 and add your bonus then check a table.  Your bonus is the average of two or three stat bonuses plus a bonus per rank in the skill you've developed, plus any item or profession bonus.  Professions set the cost of developing skills.  Each rank of "Body Development" gives an additional race based hit dice.  

There are four types of success table.

Attack tables compare weapon type to armor type providing a number of hits damage and a critical hit class.

Critical hit tables just take a critical hit class and a straight percentile roll to reference a piece of flavor text and related game effects.  The critical tables are at once the best and worst feature of the system.

The static maneuver table is just a look up table that indicates degree of success based on the roll + bonus.

The moving manuever table cross references the maneuver difficulty and roll to give flavor text results or a percentage of the maneuver that has been completed.

Rolemaster Standard System implemented skill categories which could be developed in addition to skills and set the cost and stat by the category.  This has some issues but makes adding new professions and skills much easier.

It also got rid of averaging bonuses and totalled three stat bonuse per skill.
So now your bonus is 3 Stat Bonuses + Skill Rank Bonus + Category Rank Bonus + Profession Bonus + Item Bonus.

It implemented training packages which give a batch of skills at a discount in exchange for aging the character and Talents and Flaws, which are fun but can be abused.

It also standardized the adolescent development with culture specific skills instead of handing out more points to spend.

The skill / category split was particularly contentious though really the category ranks are no messier than the old profession bonuses which were a point or two per level instead of a fixed value.

There were also special skills, implemented to allow a profession or race a different cost to a specific skill.  Neither version was perfect, but I honestly like the original best.

All told, with all options in play a RMSS character's bonuses are about double the RM2 bonuses at first level but then they face the diminishing returns of rank bonuses earlier so at higher levels the difference is less marked.

Rolemaster is not that complicated. It's roll d100 + skill to get a target number. The target numbers are provided in tables, that determine the damage and crit you do.

It is front-loaded, and character creation can take a while until you know the system, but once your characters are made, it's easy to run.

The biggest issue I had with it is that characters do take a while to make, and the system can be brutal. So you might have to make a number of new characters over a campaign.

Now I'll go on about the advantages of the system.

Okay first and formost there is the character creation.  It's really the best of all possible worlds.  Professions and training packages give a strong sense of direction to character creation but if your fighter wants to learn magic, it's just expensive not impossible.  There are professions that serve the role of multiclassing too so many of the problems multiclassing creates are delt with by simply picking a profession that can do the things you want the character to be able to do.  Even stat generation gives the advantages of points buy and random.

But yes, it's more complex than some versions of D&D.  It really depends on which options and source books you include on both sides of the equation.

Then there's the resolution.  You have to play it to really see it.  Anything can happen, the game is very open and flexible.  People read the critical tables and get freaked out by the lethality but it's really over stated.  If the PCs are smart in combat they won't take too many of the nastier criticals.

Most of all it's just a lot of fun.  I can go on and on but there you go.

Have you ever thought to yourself that a critical hit to the groin should have its own full-page chart? If so, Rolemaster is for you.

Just kidding, I never played it.

I did write a chart for hitting people with fish once.  :D

But no, the charts are by damage type, so there's  crush, slash, pierce, impact, subdual, martial arts, grappling, brawling, heat, cold, shock, and a large creatures and super large creatures tables.

It gets exaggerated absurdly out of proportion.  I mean yes RMSS has a static maneuver table for each skill category but really it's all the same table with different flavor text.

Quote from: danbuter;429652It is front-loaded, and character creation can take a while until you know the system, but once your characters are made, it's easy to run.

Quote from: Akrasia;429637MERP and RM have a largely undeserved reputation for complexity.  RM 2e actually is less complex than D&D 3e (IME).  The claim that RM is 'complex' rests on the assumption that a game with many tables must be complex.  (I have to concede, though, that RM2e and MERP are not especially well organized.)

But RM does involve the use of charts, so if that turns you off, RM will not be for you.  But the charts (IMO) are what give RM its charm: its colourful critical (and fumble) results.

I just wrote down the relevant information from the tables onto the character sheet, so that I didn't have to refer repeatedly to the tables.  It actually made combat move faster, when all the players did that.

It's a bit like using OD&D, getting down the line of the Perrin Conventions that ultimately lead to the Basic Role Playing System, but playing some more with it to reverse the engine and use rolls-without-limits mechanics, and setting up an Advanced game akin to AD&D with zillions of playing archetypes through it. If that makes sense to you, that should translate all the awesomeness that is RoleMaster.

If it doesn't, let's just say it is a class-based AD&D-style role playing game with plenty of archetypes, and skills, attack rolls etc using d100 roll-highest mechanics, with plenty of charts to boot. An insight into RPG history. Worth checking out at the very least if you like medieval fantasy role playing.

I love Rolemaster, even if I didn't really love the Spell list system. for those who don't know, Casters learn "Spell lists" rather than spells. A spell list might have entries going from 1st to 75th level or beyond. Each entry is one succinct spell that fits on a line or two. They did well keeping these spells short and sweet.

It seems like and is a decent idea; that if you learn how to cast a fireball, you might also learn related spells, like a wall of fire or such, but to me the lists rarely made sense. Seemingly unrelated spells would occupy the same list sometimes just because they had thematic relationships such as being something a Witch might cast. They didn't often seem like related knowledge, except when they were oddly too specific, like an entire list of internal bleeding cures. I don't have my books, so I can't give better examples. There were options to alter the use of spell lists or use individual spell memorization by breaking the spell lists apart, and you could select the lists you liked for your campaign and only use those with no trouble, so the "problem" isn't as severe as it might sound.

I actually wanted this to be a positive post, so here's what I initially wanted to say. I really love Rolemaster for the emphasis on immersion. Things like lists of supernatural herbs and their effects went a long way to bring you into the world. Campaign Law is a great book (probably the best) on how to build a plausible fantasy setting, and as someone who placed in the WotC setting search, I'd say it is well worth reading.

We used to refer to it as ChartMaster. You could literally paper a wall with the damage charts. Utterly absurd.

Now HARP, with the optional non-chart based damage system presented in the Bazaar Annual would be my second choice for a fantasy system, after Pathfinder.

I don't have a lot of experience with RM, as I've played it only once. I do remember character generation being painful, taking some 3 hours, and featuring lots of seemingly overlapping skills.

And as it's been mentioned in other threads, I have so many great games that deliver the same RM offers me, that I never did bother with it.

Ok, there has been some really good information about Rolemaster provided in this thread.

I am not against games that are difficult (I used to play Champions/Hero system after all).

I guess my next question is if I were going to look into Role Master where should I start?

Quote from: Daedalus;429733I guess my next question is if I were going to look into Role Master where should I start?

Rolemaster Express is a helpful intro, at least to Rolemaster Classic (the cleaned up, slightly fixed version of 2nd edition).  It's only 88 pages, and covers all the core mechanics for characters up to level 10.

RMFRP corebook is a decent intro to the 'RMSS' version of the game.

The best overall intro game to the RM family, though, is MERP (in my opinion).  Alas, MERP is no longer in print (hasn't been since ~1999), and so must be tracked down via e-bay, NobleKnight, or some other used RPGs seller.

Quote from: Monster Manuel;429698Campaign Law is a great book (probably the best) on how to build a plausible fantasy setting, and as someone who placed in the WotC setting search, I'd say it is well worth reading.

Oh yes!  Campaign Law is excellent, and useful for any FRPG.

MERP would be my recommendation.
:)

I have had a long history with Rolemaster, it dominates my RPG book collection and all the books are well worn from many years of use.

Basically I agree with others here, the mechanics aren't all that difficult and the charts are pretty easy to use. Early on it can be easy to get overwhelmed but we used to just keep the handy charts copied with the character sheet.

SpaceMaster was the gateway drug to RM for me, then MERP and I would suggest either of those as a nice way to slip into playing the system. My personal favourite flavour of the system is RM2 and we still break RMSS out once or twice a year for some play (since that was the group favourite).

Quote from: tellius;429810*snip*
SpaceMaster was the gateway drug to RM for me, then MERP and I would suggest either of those as a nice way to slip into playing the system.
*snip*

SM is the only ICE product in my collection. Just picked it up a fewdays ago allong with SMC1. Asides from the sheer volume of content in SM I would say it is a good inro into the RM system.
Played many a game of MERP and it is a concise game system though still front heavy Chargen...I think MERP 1ed./1st print is 104 pages while 1ed./2print is 128. Have seen these at LFGS for 10$. 2ed. (black cover version) is bulkier (over 200pages) and more expensive.

Would love to hear your thoughts on the system if you get into it!
:)

Rolemaster Express is a fun and inexpensive way to start the game. It builds easily into Rolemaster Classic, which I especially recommend with the Combat Companion, featuring armor-by-the-piece, which was the only thing I felt RM was ever missing.

Any of the other cuts of Rolemaster are well worth your time and energy to learn. I liked RMSS. It's extremely versatile. But there is a learning curve with Rolemaster, and the path I outlined offers a whole lot of fun without fighting that curve too much.

Quote from: The Butcher;429730I don't have a lot of experience with RM, as I've played it only once. I do remember character generation being painful, taking some 3 hours, and featuring lots of seemingly overlapping skills.

And as it's been mentioned in other threads, I have so many great games that deliver the same RM offers me, that I never did bother with it.

For us it didn't take anywhere near 3 hours. Like an AD&D 2e character (out main other option at the time), it took maybe 20 minutes after you had done it once.

Yes there were a lot of charts, but as a player you mainly just needed a photocopy of *your* chart, for your weapon. The game was easily broken into manageable chunks; ICE just took the philosophy that there should be a lot of options.

Quote from: Daedalus;429733Ok, there has been some really good information about Rolemaster provided in this thread.

I am not against games that are difficult (I used to play Champions/Hero system after all).

I guess my next question is if I were going to look into Role Master where should I start?

I third Rolemaster Express. RM in less than 100 pages for $10, how can you go wrong? And it's fully playable.

It leads into RM Classic, which is only 3-4 non-huge books and should be a breeze once you've picked up the concepts in Express.

Or if you really like the crunch, you can go for RMFRP (almost identical to the 1990s edition known as RMSS). Be warned this is something of a behemoth, but perfectly doable if you're someone who likes HERO or GURPS, and it definitely has its rewards.

Rolemaster is lots of fun. It's undoubtedly a gamer's game, but I've seen newbies pick it up quickly. Hold their hands a little for chargen, give them their weapon tables and a lot of folks take to it enthusiastically. Rolling d100 and looking up a chart is easy, and the results give a sort of quirky variety and even verisimilitude that is unique. I also love the chargen, I really feel that I'm building a rich and unique individual who is part of a fantasy world.

Quote from: The_Shadow;429844I third Rolemaster Express. RM in less than 100 pages for $10, how can you go wrong? And it's fully playable.

It leads into RM Classic, which is only 3-4 non-huge books and should be a breeze once you've picked up the concepts in Express.

Or if you really like the crunch, you can go for RMFRP (almost identical to the 1990s edition known as RMSS). Be warned this is something of a behemoth, but perfectly doable if you're someone who likes HERO or GURPS, and it definitely has its rewards.

Rolemaster is lots of fun. It's undoubtedly a gamer's game, but I've seen newbies pick it up quickly. Hold their hands a little for chargen, give them their weapon tables and a lot of folks take to it enthusiastically. Rolling d100 and looking up a chart is easy, and the results give a sort of quirky variety and even verisimilitude that is unique. I also love the chargen, I really feel that I'm building a rich and unique individual who is part of a fantasy world.

Do you know where one can pick up Rolemaster express?  I dont think my FLGS has that

Quote from: Daedalus;429856Do you know where one can pick up Rolemaster express?  I dont think my FLGS has that

The only legitimate looking place I could find it at the moment was at Paizo.
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/ironCrownEnterprises/v5748btpy80dt
It's a $5 download.

I need to see if I can get some old ICE download links restored. They have an all new store, now.

Quote from: stu2000;429867The only legitimate looking place I could find it at the moment was at Paizo.
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/ironCrownEnterprises/v5748btpy80dt
It's a $5 download.

I need to see if I can get some old ICE download links restored. They have an all new store, now.

I have downloaded it and I will take a look at it.  Thanks

Back when I played it, we called the game Rollmaster since rolling up characters seemed to take forever. Even Phoenix Command was faster and more concise.

Quote from: Elfdart;429896Back when I played it, we called the game Rollmaster since rolling up characters seemed to take forever. Even Phoenix Command was faster and more concise.

ouch...WELCOME Elfdart!
like the avatar,great movie!
:)

Quote from: Elfdart;429896Back when I played it, we called the game Rollmaster since rolling up characters seemed to take forever. Even Phoenix Command was faster and more concise.

Phoenix Command gets a bad rap.

Anyhow the big issue with RM character creation is totalling the bonuses on all those skills.  I still think totalling more than the five or six you're likely to use in combat is wasted effort.  Do the others when you're waiting for the DM to get to you or as needed.  Doing one doesn't slow things down that much.

Also, for pity's sake, when you're starting out with RMSS, don't do it with all the dials turned on.  RMfrp might have cut back the combat a bit much but cutting back the options and removing Talents from the core helps.

Quote from: Elfdart;429896Back when I played it, we called the game Rollmaster since rolling up characters seemed to take forever. Even Phoenix Command was faster and more concise.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

A big part of what Rolemaster has to offer is the unparralled character creation system.  No, it's not as flexible as GURPS or Hero, or Risus for that matter, that's a good thing.  Rolemaster gives you flexability without having a party of one legged leppers in motorized wheel chairs carrying shotguns.  It integrates the character culturally into the setting, rewards class appropriate skill choices, rewards setting appropriate characters.  And yes it takes a while the first couple times but that's partly because gamers generally try to hard to min/max things instead of taking what they should have and moving forward.

I know people who'll spend a week tweaking a hundred point GURPS character if you let them.

Quote from: David Johansen;429916Phoenix Command gets a bad rap.

Anyhow the big issue with RM character creation is totalling the bonuses on all those skills.  I still think totalling more than the five or six you're likely to use in combat is wasted effort.  Do the others when you're waiting for the DM to get to you or as needed.  Doing one doesn't slow things down that much.

Also, for pity's sake, when you're starting out with RMSS, don't do it with all the dials turned on.  RMfrp might have cut back the combat a bit much but cutting back the options and removing Talents from the core helps.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED Phoenix Command! Any game where you can take 5 million points of damage to the heart is the stuff of legend.

Quote from: Elfdart;429957Don't get me wrong, I LOVED Phoenix Command! Any game where you can take 5 million points of damage to the heart is the stuff of legend.

LOL Welcome dude.